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McInnis/Teabagger Schism Intensifies, Maes Seeks Opening

by: Colorado Pols

Tue Dec 08, 2009 at 09:57:48 AM MST


We've been watching this build up for almost a week, and today the Denver Post reports:

A move by gubernatorial candidate Scott McInnis to clear opponents from the Republican primary field and unite the state party under one banner has instead driven away some factions he had hoped to court.

A band of conservative Tea Party activists, along with less vocal officials elsewhere in the GOP, continue to bristle at what they see as a circumvention of their rights to choose a candidate and a platform.

The dissatisfaction has recently manifest itself in angry e-mails and vows of support for long-shot Republican candidate and Evergreen businessman Dan Maes, in protest of national media reports suggesting McInnis has won over conservatives in Colorado.

McInnis unveiled a Platform for Prosperity on Nov. 23, in part to appeal to conservative voters, as he accepted the endorsements of two possible Republican opponents who bowed out of next year's gubernatorial race...

Folks, we are witnessing something very important here. Despite the best efforts of all parties involved--from the GOP kingpins who muscled Josh Penry out of the gubernatorial primary, to Tom Tancredo who provided a week's worth of absurd "hard negotiation" theatrics, to the overly accommodating editors and columnists at the Denver Post who rolled out the insistent red carpet for "McInnis Unity"--despite everything they did to avoid this moment, the monkey of Dede Scozzafava is squarely on McInnis' back. The Post's Jessica Fender continues:

McInnis' troubles underscore the unpredictably of these new protest groups, which are sometimes in alliance with Republicans but remain an unknown quotient in Colorado politics, said John Straayer, a political science professor at Colorado State University.

"The noise they can make could be a bigger problem for (McInnis) than their numbers," Straayer said. "If they command a lot of attention, they are basically helping the Democrats out with a critique of the Republican nominee."

Wadhams rejects the idea that the party's top dogs have stifled choice...

The problem for Colorado GOP chairman Dick Wadhams, in a nutshell, is that nobody believes him anymore. Wadhams has talked out of both sides of his mouth about the "value" of primaries for too many election cycles, while the base has watched Republican primary fields mysteriously evaporate--over and over again, year after year. They know he's full of crap now and he can't assuage their anger.

We agree with Straayer that the danger of a full-scale "Tea Party" rebellion for McInnis exceeds their likely real numbers. As yesterday's Rasmussen poll showed, a great many more conservatives than you actually see at these protests would vote for a "Tea Party candidate"--analogous to Doug Hoffman in the NY-23 special election--over a generic Republican candidate.

With all this in mind, it makes a great deal of sense that up-to-now irrelevant candidate Dan Maes (quite possibly headed for the Big Line after all) is doing everything he can do to capitalize on right-wing disaffection with McInnis. And it helps us understand why McInnis is willing to jeopardize his credibility with business and other responsible stakeholders by hedging on those over-the-top anti-government ballot initiatives championed by the "Tea Party" set.

It would be different, we suppose, if McInnis wasn't actively seeking the support of the "Tea Party," an effort that produced the Wall Street Journal story and misleading Fox News interview that so greatly upset them to begin with. It might actually be something Democrats would not want to discuss under different circumstances, since he could hypothetically come out looking more 'moderate' after 'battling' his 'right flank.'

But McInnis is not 'battling' the "Tea Partiers," he's trying to co-opt them into a backdrop for his campaign--which, especially if the attempt fails, could leave him with fewer friends on any side.

Colorado Pols :: McInnis/Teabagger Schism Intensifies, Maes Seeks Opening
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This pretty much illustrates
Why I would never use an ideologue to take a hill.

Today, you're either going to get better or you're going to get worse, but you're never going to be the same.  Which one will it be?  --Joseph V. Paterno

Don't deny the Tea Party Movement
When its popular you claim they are teabaggers and make other assorted nasty comments.  Fox News then makes a mistake and you claim justice and deceit in the same sentence.





[ Parent ]
Thank You, Libby
For illustrating my point.

Today, you're either going to get better or you're going to get worse, but you're never going to be the same.  Which one will it be?  --Joseph V. Paterno

[ Parent ]
Damn Lil' Lib
Did you run out of buildings in your neighborhood to tag with your gang signs? Now you resort to tagging blogs with your graffiti?  Do you have a fish bait tat also?

[ Parent ]
What
No pictures of union firemen protesting Ritter's veto of SB 180 last year?

[ Parent ]
What type of movement?
A political movement is a group of people working together to achieve a political goal.  Have the teabaggers worked together to do anything other than protest?  What is their goal?  Collectively, there appears to be a common goal of "less government" but as a group they agree on nothing more than "Obama Bad."  Do they have a leader?  If their leader is Glen Beck, they have real problems.  He is no worse than any other self-promoter, but he does not have any of the markings of a leader.  The teabaggers are not organized or focused.  Unless or until that happens, McInniss is making a big mistake in courting their support rather than just giving lip service to there "ideals."  

[ Parent ]
Hey 'tad - I can do that too!
This seems a much more apt description.....



"The nation which forgets its defenders will be itself forgotten." Calvin Coolidge


[ Parent ]
This grows more interesting by the day.
Sticky business, trying to appease the fanatics. The Teabaggers don't seem interested in an actual platform or concrete ideas so much as they just seem interested in rioting and bitching and at the end of the day, that's all they need to do to undermine McInnis.

And how in God's name can Wadhams, with a straight face, claim the Republican Party didn't clear the field? Hell, even Democrats are talking about how beautifully the R Party managed to shut down the opposition and maneuver McInnis into a position of taking on Ritter directly, instead of wasting precious dollars on a primary. Well, they were talking about it before the Teabaggers got riled up...maybe now it isn't looking so brilliant after all.  

"I wouldn't characterize caloric intake as "professional development." c rork


and at the end of the day, that's all they need to do to undermine McInnis
A noble cause nevertheless

[ Parent ]
I am just loving this...
and watching the whole sad scenario unfold. Pols has called it well.  Hell, we're not even that far into it and there is a rift between McInnis, Wadhams and the teabaggers and Penry, which will probably grow with time.

Damned if you do and damned if you don't.  If you don't embrace and champion the pie-in-the-sky anarchistic ideas of the teabaggers you lose support and enter as a weak candidate.  If you do, you look like a loon and scare the crap out of the middle and enter as a weak candidate.  McScotty thinks he's clever enough to placate both, but he's not going to get far on that strategy and may end up alienating BOTH THE MODERATES AND THE TEA BAGGERS as Pols points out.  

He has to take a side, but he won't, which will be his downfall.  Mealy-mouthed flim flam R candidate, anyone ?

I am all for 3rd parties, especially when they siphon votes off from the other side.  Caribou Barbie now has left the door open to being a 2012 tea party candidate as well, so I would characterize her as the useful idiot.  

Could it get any better ?

" The webinar is free, however, there are only 250 spaces available "

Some douche


[ Parent ]
More evidence of how the GOP
is losing control of the fringe elements on which they have come to rely. Third party challengers only have to take a significant chunk to take away an election, as Ross Perot did here in Colorado, giving Bill Clinton the plurality win here he failed to repeat without such assistance in his second run.

From state level to national level, this appears to be getting out of hand for the GOP. Having pushed ideological purity and smiled on fantasy conspiracy theories to fire up the fringe, the fringe now demands the GOP take it all as seriously as they do.

To the ideological fringe any level of compromise with the opposition is consorting with the enemy. The opposition isn't just wrong but evil, un-American and involved in all kinds of conspiracies to destroy the real America.  This leaves GOP pols no way to function as politicians outside of a shrinking safe universe anymore but ideologues don't care about that.  Higher up the food chain Sarah Palin is now leaving the door open for a third party run in 2012.

In difficult times like these the best thing the majority Dems have going for them is the promise of third party assaults on the GOP from the fringe, the fringe the GOP fired up in the first place.  In partnership with the Fox/rightie radio axis, they created Sarah, the tea party movement, the birthers et al and now the monster has a life all its own. I like it.

http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo...


[ Parent ]
The GOP is imploding.
The Prty consists of groups that simply don't share the same values any longer. Under those circumstances, the GOP is bound to disintegrate.

[ Parent ]
Winning is soooo over-valued


"There are a lot of reasons not to elect me." Mitt Romney in a moment of clarity

"I'm Mitt Romney and yes, Wolf, that's also my first name," Willard Mitt Romney demonstrating 'policy flexibility.'  


[ Parent ]
This is what we Dems went through
When LBJ embraced civil rights and thereby split the party with the South leaving us for the Republicans. It doesn't mean the GOP will disintegrate, it just means that they are finally facing the issue where they've given words but not deeds to several of their major interest groups.

Where all the cool kids will be on Saturday - Code War!

[ Parent ]
Limited comparison
The Dem party never came anywhere near as close to eliminating all but one of its various components.  There has never been a collection of Dems in congress that were anywhere near as exclusively hard left as the GOP is now exclusively hard right.  

Back in the 60s there were still both Ds and Rs all over the left/right map. Neither party sought to define itself within the confines of such a specifically defined ideology as the GOP increasingly does today.  Many areas still existed in which compromise on legislation was possible and such compromise was seen as constructive.

Neither party, in those days, faced as much difficulty as today's GOP now faces as a narrow based ideological party in a two party system in which it is so difficult for third parties to have any influence beyond that of spoiler.  There is no history of multiple parties forming coalitions in our system as there is in many parliamentary systems.

It is more likely that a strong Tea Party that rejects the concept of compromise as comporting with the enemy will be a detriment to the GOP than that it will strengthen the GOP as a potential partner, allowing the GOP to itself to return to the middle. They will not be willing to partner with a more centrist GOP.


[ Parent ]
Read the Bennet vs. Romanoff shills in this blog
The Republicans aren't the only ones.

Today, you're either going to get better or you're going to get worse, but you're never going to be the same.  Which one will it be?  --Joseph V. Paterno

[ Parent ]
ding ding ding

hey.... wait a minute

[ Parent ]
But there is still not a Dem party
in which all but one or two Senators are  liberals who consider moderate and conservative dirty words. That's the big difference now.  

Dems squabble but that's because Dems really are big tent.  Rs have eliminated most intra party party squabbles by shrinking the tent. They are now challenged by a movement that demands even more shrinking, the Tea Partiers.  

Dems are sometimes tripped up by a Nader, their own most liberal wing, the power of the unions or of a few Blue Dogs.  This causes problems with pushing through legislation even while in the majority.  Still, Dems now have more ability to attract votes from a broader base than do 21st century Rs.  The last few election cycles attest to that.  The position is the Dems to lose. And Dems are unfortunately pretty good at that, too!


[ Parent ]
How many Tea Partiers will vote for McInnis next November,
simply because they have nowhere else to go? Will it be enough to overcome the damage they might do by attacking him between now and then?

This is not a group of people who see winning like you and I do, OQD
Look at NY-23. By any sane person's definition of the word, they lost the election. But to them, they saw it as a victory because the RINO didn't win. If they see McInnis as a RINO, or trying to usurp Tea Party support, then they'll make it their mission to see to it he doesn't win.

Then when Bill Ritter is inaugurated for his 2nd term, they will declare victory and look at what other "RINOs" they can attack in 2012. All this, while nominating Palin/Bachmann as their ticket against Obama at the 1st ever Tea Party convention in Wasilla, AK.


[ Parent ]
My mistake
I didn't read your handle well enough. Sorry for the confusion OEO.

[ Parent ]
No problem, RSB. OEO, OQD, OMB, PS3 ...
acronyms are good. They remind me of Campbell's soup -- the kind with the noodles in the shape of letters.  

[ Parent ]
What's the Worst Case Scenario For McInnis?
   That the Teabaggers run a petition candidate in Nov. '10 against the major party candidates.  What would that involve?  How many signatures would they need and by when?
  Another, easier possiblity is that they hijack the American Constitution Party and run a candidate for Guv.  (What would be involved in doing that, Barron X?)
  The next to worst case scenario is that they simply sit on their hands and do nothing.  While that certainly doesn't help Scooter, there's still a path to winning the governorship asuming that Ritter fails to win back those unaffiliated and RINOs who supported him in '06.  Scooter running as the former head of Republicans for Choice would certainly be able to bring home some, if not most, of the RINOs.

Therein lies the question
Are there more RINOs or Tea Partiers?

[ Parent ]
Depends on where you live, redstate
Let me post a quote from the comments section of an editorial in today's Daily Sentinel

By Colorado Tea Party

Dec 7, 2009 5:58 PM | Link to this

Josh Penry should run against that RINO lobbyist Gale Norton for Senate and get rid of Michael Bennett.



Today, you're either going to get better or you're going to get worse, but you're never going to be the same.  Which one will it be?  --Joseph V. Paterno

[ Parent ]
Note Norton's name ID problem with the lunatic fringe
n/t

Today, you're either going to get better or you're going to get worse, but you're never going to be the same.  Which one will it be?  --Joseph V. Paterno

[ Parent ]
That's just bad form
confusing a O&G shill with a RINO !

" The webinar is free, however, there are only 250 spaces available "

Some douche


[ Parent ]
Why not embrace Ken Buck?
He's still in it, right? They're so desperate to vote for Josh Penry, they'll ignore the people who are already in the race.

[ Parent ]
Most of these people don't follow politics
They don't think.

They just hate.

They're "agin'ers"

Using them in any kind of campaign or political movement is like herding cats.  Or worse, because they'll turn on you in an instant.

Today, you're either going to get better or you're going to get worse, but you're never going to be the same.  Which one will it be?  --Joseph V. Paterno


[ Parent ]
It's going to be Wiens
unless he does something stoopid or doesn't show real cash in 4Q

[ Parent ]
Amazing
 I love how these "tea baggers" have decided to engage politically, and now that they are engaged they want everyone to think that clearing the field for a candidate is something new.  This is not some crazy recently unveiled conspiracy.  This is how politics works.  The R's do it and the D's do it.  It makes sense!  

I don't understand throwing the R that you can agree with, 95% of the time, under the bus to make a point, and then get Ritter for another four years who you can only agree with 50% of the time. Wake up dumb asses you are actually hurting the cause.


Shhhh
that's a completely logical explanation of the inevitable outcome.  Stop that.

" The webinar is free, however, there are only 250 spaces available "

Some douche


[ Parent ]
Your Nickname if Ridiculous
If you were involved in the Republican Party at all, you would know that this is exactly how the vast majority of your party thinks.  It is the reason the party is becoming a small regional party, unable to enact policy at all.  I know, I was the ultimate insider for more than 20 years.  I'm not a Republican any more because of this type of thinking.  I give you the same challenge that I give everyone who thinks they are really a Republican.  Go out and immerse yourself in the party for 2 years.  Get involved in committees and campaigns and conventions.  Then come back and tell me what you think.  If you are one of those who believes in a narrow set of principals first and winning second, then you'll like what you see.  If you don't, then you'll be like me.  An unaffiliate who will never belong to this Republican Party and who doesn't think things will get better in his lifetime.

[ Parent ]
You idiots...
I've been involved probably far more than you have in conventions and party activitities.  Served as County Party Sec. and Chair, worked for two US Reps (paid staffer) and one US Senator.  Let's compare resumes if you like.  The vast majority of our party does not think like the "tea baggers".  

oh and P.S. - Go fuck yourself I like my nickname! LOL


[ Parent ]
Yeah, Craig can't possibly know how much you weigh
n/t

Today, you're either going to get better or you're going to get worse, but you're never going to be the same.  Which one will it be?  --Joseph V. Paterno

[ Parent ]
you need a comma or semicolon between go fuck yourself and I like my nickname


" The webinar is free, however, there are only 250 spaces available "

Some douche


[ Parent ]
Upon reflection...
I would use the dash.

[ Parent ]
The game has changed
McInnis, Wadhams, etc. don't understand one big change that has occured in the last 6 years. With the web who you are is now out there and you have no control over it. You no longer get to present a candidate in a certain way and have that stick.

You can explain some actions, you can emphasize certain traits, you can try to push the focus to certain issues, but a candidate & team is just one of many many players and they have little true influence.

If you understand this, then you find how to best take maximum advantage of who your candidate is. If you don't understand this you try to control the story and that effort becomes an additional part of the McInnis picture (and not a positive one).

The McInnis campaign is handling this in the worst possible way - and it's biting them in the ass big time. I understand why they are doing this - it's what used to be the best avenue. But the world has changed and they have not adapted (yet).

And if they do adapt, they're going to find another unwelcome surprise - that this stuff remains. Nothing goes away anymore and so all of their missteps will be presented front & center day after day all through Sept/Oct/Nov.

Where all the cool kids will be on Saturday - Code War!


Its still about Jobs, and Frontier has pulled 340
Today 140 Coloradans found out their jobs have been moved.

http://www.denverpost.com/ci_1...

Indiana gets 300 new jobs.


[ Parent ]
And you know the reason why, right?
It's because the budget crisis and TABOR restrictions meant we couldn't offer Frontier enough incentives to keep their maintenance facility here.

Besides, this thread was about something else.  Post your random bullshit to the open thread.

Today, you're either going to get better or you're going to get worse, but you're never going to be the same.  Which one will it be?  --Joseph V. Paterno


[ Parent ]
Isn't that corporate welfare?
And didn't southwest airlines offer a lot more to frontier debt holders then the acquiring firm?

All Denver had to do was kill the head tax and delete the business asst tax.


[ Parent ]
Isn't that government subsidy?
to then require the public to pick up the tab for the costs associated with an airport and doing business?

Keep thinking on it, you just might understand eventually.  

"There are a lot of reasons not to elect me." Mitt Romney in a moment of clarity

"I'm Mitt Romney and yes, Wolf, that's also my first name," Willard Mitt Romney demonstrating 'policy flexibility.'  


[ Parent ]
Ah-ha, so the cost of doing business in Indiana or Wisconsin is lower
Brilliant, you low lifes in Denver keep forking over your minimal property taxes, pushing out 50% of your HS students without graduation, fostering a sanctuary city policies, and keeping the cost of doing business so high.

Have you ever wondered why you're in the boat you're in?  


[ Parent ]
Yes, Libby, it is corporate welfare.
It's something that Republicans typically overlook when it comes to discussing the pissing away of money.

As far as who bought Frontier, you'll have to look to your beloved Free Market for an answer.

You see, what's good for stockholders isn't always good for Real People.

I've already come to grips with that.  You'll need to someday.

Today, you're either going to get better or you're going to get worse, but you're never going to be the same.  Which one will it be?  --Joseph V. Paterno


[ Parent ]
Ah yes, Obama-Hickenlooper should have stepped
in with that EPA style command and control strategy and just seized the freaking assets like GM.

[ Parent ]
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