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Thursday Open Thread on Gov. Race: It Looks Like Hickenlooper

by: Colorado Pols

Thu Jan 07, 2010 at 08:26:07 AM MST


UPDATE #5:No confirmation yet that Hickenlooper is going to run, but last night sources said that the Mayor really wanted to do it but was waiting for Salazar's decision. Given the fact that Salazar publicly endorsed Hick if he runs, it's not a stretch to assume that he did so with knowledge of what the answer would be.

If Hickenlooper does not run, the next name to watch is Rep. Ed Perlmutter. We wrote earlier that is was highly unlikely that Salazar, Hickenlooper and Perlmutter all pass on running for Governor, but if that does happen for some reason, the next names on the list are Treasurer Cary Kennedy (the only potential candidate who could actually transfer some of her current warchest to a race for Governor), Andrew Romanoff and Rep. Betsy Markey.

UPDATE #4: Denver Post reports Salazar will endorse John Hickenlooper for Governor.

"I know John and Helen will seriously consider this historic opportunity that will define the future of State of Colorado and her people. This is a personal decision they must make and I will fully respect that decision," Salazar said.

"As for me, I have a job to do as Secretary of the Interior to implement President Obama's vision for a clean energy economy and to better protect America's great outdoors."

UPDATE #3: Multiple sources now confirming, Ken Salazar will NOT run. In that case, we'd put the odds that Denver Mayor John Hickenlooper will run at 95%. Developing.

UPDATE #2: Ken Salazar out? Just relaying this from The Atlantic's Marc Ambinder until we get additional word, which we are seeking now:

This just in.... Interior Secretary Ken Salazar has decided NOT to run for governor in Colorado. Incumbent Democrat Bill Ritter is retiring. The likely candidate for the Dems, then, is Denver mayor John Hickenlooper.

UPDATE #1:: It seems that The Denver Post isn't buying the Republican spin that Ritter is retiring because he didn't think he could win:

...we don't believe that Ritter dropped out of the race because he was down in recent polls and feared losing the gubernatorial election to Republican Scott McInnis. [Pols emphasis] The margin was only single digits, and voters haven't unseated an incumbent governor since 1962...

...It may not have been noticeable to Coloradans, but this job has worn on the governor. We couldn't help but notice the lightness in Ritter's demeanor at his press conference, joking at times with journalists. It seemed as if the weight of the world had been lifted from his shoulders.

He had the appearance of a man who was very comfortable with his very difficult decision, and we're happy for him. The moment he finished his speech in the Capitol foyer, he turned and hugged his teenage son. Sometimes stepping away from a job to spend time with one's family means just that.

There are 244 comments and counting on Tuesday's post, 300 and counting on Wednesday's post and quickly growing comments on this post.

Colorado Pols also broke a record yesterday with our highest number of Page Views in one day, with 60,629 (but not a record for Unique Visitors in one day, curiously enough).

So we thought you might want another open thread on the topic.
Colorado Pols :: Thursday Open Thread on Gov. Race: It Looks Like Hickenlooper
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Thursday Open Thread on Gov. Race: It Looks Like Hickenlooper | 224 comments
Yeah, 302 comments on Wednesday's post
and for me, 250 of them are new! I have some catching up to do.

"Thank you for putting your rank political motives on display." - ArapaGOP
So I have a question....
Is Ken Salazar ever going to stick to his post?  Or is he going to take a more lucrative job at a lobbying firm two years into his Governors office as well?

"Thousands are sailing, across the western ocean, to a land of opportunity, that some of them will never see . . ."

- The Pogues

I agree with your assumption
that Ken Salazar is likely to be Gov.  Poor Scooter, to have his dreams so dashed.

If anyone can make Dems look good, its Republicans.


"There are a lot of reasons not to elect me." Mitt Romney in a moment of clarity

"I'm Mitt Romney and yes, Wolf, that's also my first name," Willard Mitt Romney demonstrating 'policy flexibility.'  

[ Parent ]
Whoa there big boy
The speed of Ritter's decision had clearly taken party strategists by surprise, and Democrats commissioned a poll late Tuesday to test the relative strengths among voters of four candidates: Salazar, Hickenlooper, U.S. Rep. Ed Perlmutter, and former state House Speaker Andrew Romanoff, who has launched a primary challenge for Michael Bennet's U.S. Senate seat.

Read more: http://www.denverpost.com/loca...

Salazar will need 72+ hours to decide if he takes the risk, much of that will have to on the ground in Colorado.

[ Parent ]
Huh?
Why would Salazar have to spend the next three days in Colorado to decide if he is running for Governor? You know, Libertad, they have the Internet and phones and everything in D.C.
[ Parent ]
Looks like The Secretary has reviewed the polls
punt to Hickenlooper
[ Parent ]
Now THAT's pure . . .
fantasy!

Discipline without purpose is tyranny.
[ Parent ]
No that's a fact Jack
Where's that bench, where's the discipline, ya gotta love the passion.
[ Parent ]
You don't know jack and that's a fact
It always amazes me how you can write such absolute proclamations while having absolutely no evidence to support your "factual" statements.  My guess tad is that you reach your conclusions by interpreting the gas clouds emanating from Rush Limbaughs butt.  You are in a bigger haze then a medical marijuana patient.  No wonder your predictions of a McCain landslide missed the mark.  We do enjoy your delusions though.  It is definitely entertainment to see how hard you are wishing for a new pony.  
[ Parent ]
Remember, Auto
Only yesterday, Libertad insisted Salazar would take three days polling before he made up his mind.  Wow, time flies when you having right-wing fantasies, doesn't it?
[ Parent ]
@Voyageur--Oh, I remember . . .
He's entertaining, at least!  

And Arvadonian--that sounds about right!  

Discipline without purpose is tyranny.

[ Parent ]
I beleive it was 72 hours ... as reported by the Post

[ Parent ]
That's actually funny, Libby.
At least you can laugh at yourself once in a while.  That goes a long way to redeeming some of your fulminatory moments. ;-)
[ Parent ]
Rasmussen?
If Rasmussen says the democrat is down by 5 they are likely up by 8...

"But when I see a 9-11 victim family on television, or whatever, I'm just like, 'Oh, shut up!' I'm so sick of them because they're always complaining."  Glenn Beck  
[ Parent ]
such a deep bench ... anyone can do the job ....
...the next names on the list are Treasurer Cary Kennedy (the only potential candidate who could actually transfer some of her current warchest to a race for Governor), Andrew Romanoff and Rep. Betsy Markey.

Just how did Ritter reach this family crisis now that his youngest at the age to be bar hoping with a fake id and shopping colleges?

A democrat today suggested there was a federal investigation - 2nd time I've heard this - when asked what the investigation was for they could only speculate about the Velafuarte angle.

With personal attacks like this from inside Democrats who needs enemies

[ Parent ]
And yet here you are repeating them,
over and over and over and over and over, you disingenuous little fuck.

"I wouldn't characterize caloric intake as "professional development." c rork
[ Parent ]
Repeating them?
Or making them up. Probably the latter.
[ Parent ]
Or all of the above. n/t
[ Parent ]
Pols was the center of the CO universe yesterday
The chaos here was the chaos there. MotR called it a "microcosm" in another thread, yup.

Incredibly valuable, though.

Yo quiero gobierno medio!

One thing is for sure
The face that graced the front page of the Post, Jeannie Ritter's, was not the face of the wife of a pol whose "family  considerations" are about to explode into a bimbo eruption or any other personal or political scandal.  

All the best to the Ritter family and may they always look as happy and serene as they did at that press conference. Pretty clear Ritter made the right decision for his family.  Nice to know we aren't always right to be cynical.  

Amen to that.
[ Parent ]
She gets her husband back, the kids get their dad back
And we owe them a giant thank you for letting us have him for 4 years. (I've talked to my sister once/year since she became a cabinet officer - and governor has to be 10 times worse).

Where all the cool kids will be on Saturday - Code War!
[ Parent ]
I've put in a request to interview Salazar
Cross your fingers!!!

Where all the cool kids will be on Saturday - Code War!
Might want to cancel...
that and get an interview scheduled with Hickenlooper:

http://twitter.com/TheFix/stat...

"But when I see a 9-11 victim family on television, or whatever, I'm just like, 'Oh, shut up!' I'm so sick of them because they're always complaining."  Glenn Beck  

[ Parent ]
If you're going to suck up...
...suck up where it matters.
[ Parent ]
Done
thanks - dave

ps - I still want to interview Salazar too.

Where all the cool kids will be on Saturday - Code War!

[ Parent ]
we all want you to interview Salazar
and maybe Jake Sully while your at it.  One can never have enough interviews.
[ Parent ]
Salazar out according to The Fix
15 minutes ago:
Ken Salazar will not run for gov of Colorado...will back Denver Mayor Hickenlooper...more on Fix shortly.    15 minutes ago   from Tweetie  

they've got their sources... Hickenlooper anyone?

See my work at Politics Daily  

New poll
Sometimes your posts are brilliant
This is not one of those times. Seriously, you think Salazar will poll below McInnis?

Scott McInnis - please answer our questions

by: DavidThi808 @ Thu Jan 07, 2010 at 09:09:50 AM MST
[ Parent | Reply ]

Apparently so...
Latest poll out.
http://www.rasmussenreports.co...

Survey of 500 Likely Voters in CO
January 6, 2010
Election 2010: Colorado Governor Race

Scott McInnis (R)
45%

John Hickenlooper (D)
42%

Other
5%

Not sure
8%

Election 2010: Colorado Governor Race

Scott McInnis (R)
47%

Ken Salazar (D)
41%

Other
2%

Not sure
9%

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

by: crazypoliticians @ Thu Jan 07, 2010 at 10:58:14 AM MST
[ Parent | Reply ]


Could you repost your link?
It doesn't seem to work for me.

Thanks.  

"I wouldn't characterize caloric intake as "professional development." c rork

[ Parent ]
If we take out the Rasmussen R Bonus values...
...then that would be about right.

Find a real non-partisan poll, and then repost.

"The nation which forgets its defenders will be itself forgotten." Calvin Coolidge

[ Parent ]
In a notoriously right leaning poll
Hickenlooper is within the margin of error, without even being a candidate, shows how much trouble Scooty is in.

"Republicans have lost all credibility over the past 10 years," -Josh Penry,

[ Parent ]
Rasmussen is not to be trusted....
http://www.politico.com/news/s...

"But when I see a 9-11 victim family on television, or whatever, I'm just like, 'Oh, shut up!' I'm so sick of them because they're always complaining."  Glenn Beck  
[ Parent ]
Interesting poll #'s

Neither Hick nor Salazar does much better than Ritter against McInnis.

http://www.rasmussenreports.co...

Rasmussen results are always interesting
but they're not terribly accurate. (Of course, it could be that Rasmussen is the ONLY accurate pollster, and that all other pollsters are in a conspiracy to prop up our failing blackosocialist President, if you're in the HOV lane to Crazytown.)

Rasmussen thinks the Massachusetts Senate race will be within single digits. We'll find out in a month whether that's accurate. I tend to think not so much. I don't even think the craziest whackjob Republicans really believe Rasmussen's numbers there.

"Have a Bobby bar! My dad made them." --Jon Huntsman Jr.

[ Parent ]
Yup...
http://www.politico.com/news/s...

"But when I see a 9-11 victim family on television, or whatever, I'm just like, 'Oh, shut up!' I'm so sick of them because they're always complaining."  Glenn Beck  
[ Parent ]
If you don't like the message
attack the messenger.  
[ Parent ]
If Salazar were running for reelection he would be trailing today
Anyone who thinks that Salazar or Hickenlooper are the silver bullets is mistaken. Both are trailing McInnis. Rasmussen picked Obama to win by the exact margin, they were the first poll to show that Libby Dole was behind in North Carolina and the first to pick Webb to win in Virginia in 2006.  
Rasmussen has gone off the deep end
since the election of Obama. Rasmussen had the same numbers as everyone else until after the election, and since then they've been wild outliers.

If you think it's worth anything that they picked Obama's exact margin, you haven't got the slightest idea how statistics work. I'll explain it to you if you like.

"Have a Bobby bar! My dad made them." --Jon Huntsman Jr.

[ Parent ]
Not accurate
First, they were off by a percent in their final poll.  Second, they did considerably less well on a state-by-state basis.  I can't verify the Dole or Webb results, so I'll ignore those claims for now.  Statistics (and lots of polling) can generate any number of claims of accuracy (or inaccuracy).

However, Rasmussen has been a continual outlier all through the past year.  He's adjusted his weighting in a way that highly favors Republicans (Rasmussen always has, but it's worse this year since he adjusted his weighting formula).

I'll wait for more poll results, thanks.

"We're below sharks and contract killers." -- Rep. Trey Gowdy (R-S.C.), speaking on Congress's 9% approval rating

[ Parent ]
Isn't every Democrat trailing every poll?
The party in power always polls poorly in the first year or two of a new President.

The only numbers that matter at this point in any race are "very favorable" and "very unfavorable," because most voters aren't paying any attention whatsoever. The "very favorable" and "very unfavorable" numbers are a decent barometer of what the voters who ARE paying attention are thinking.

[ Parent ]
hehe, "Developing..."
Where's the siren icon at the top of the page?  :)
I think this is great
this gives Hick someplace to go (and he's proven that he can be a good executive), allows Salazar to continue his good work at DoI, and hey, maybe even Romanoff could run for Denver mayor and get something out of this!

All in all, this could be a very satisfactory solution.

"If someone just sticks to shutting the fuck up, can they still go outside and play a game of hide and go fuck yourself?" -- Fidel's Dirt Nap


Very interesting
But I don't think Romanoff would suspend his campaign to run for Mayor. Maybe if it was Mayor of the Senate.
[ Parent ]
My guess is still
Romanoff for Lt. Gov, no matter who runs for Gov.

We'll miss you, Gabby.
[ Parent ]
If Salazar had been the candidate, Romanoff would likely have been LG
But Romanoff makes less sense for Hickenlooper because he doesn't bring anything different to the ticket. Salazar is not a Denver guy, so he could pick a Denver person for LG. But Hick probably needs to go out of the city for his choice in order to balance the ticket.  
[ Parent ]
How much difference does that really make?
I mean, really?  Did anyone vote for Gov. Ritter because Ms. O'Brien was his running mate?

Discipline without purpose is tyranny.
[ Parent ]
I think O'Brien did help solidify the Democratic base, auto
Some of which were still nervous about Ritter's "personal" pro life position.  Plus, she's an energetic and articulate campaigner.  I've been thinking this time how a West Slope gal like Kathleen Curry might help Hickenlooper if she hadn't just shot herself in the foot.  
[ Parent ]
I know, but I can hope right?
That's still allowed? I mean, wouldn't that be a great, nice and tidy way to close everything off?

sigh...

plus, I bet Romanoff could win the mayoral race, it would be tough, but much more likely than knocking off a sitting senator that is putting away money and support like crazy.

"If someone just sticks to shutting the fuck up, can they still go outside and play a game of hide and go fuck yourself?" -- Fidel's Dirt Nap


[ Parent ]
"You won't have Andy Romanoff to kick around anymore!" n/t


"Have a Bobby bar! My dad made them." --Jon Huntsman Jr.
[ Parent ]
haha!!
love it!

"If someone just sticks to shutting the fuck up, can they still go outside and play a game of hide and go fuck yourself?" -- Fidel's Dirt Nap


[ Parent ]
Well
If anyone in this analogy is Nixon, it's Scott McInnis.

Ritter is an easy LBJ.

That would make Hickenlooper into McGovern though, so I think those first two might be where the analogy ends.

[ Parent ]
Hmmmm, I think McInnis would've fit Nixon better
in 2008.

But what do I know, I just think the idea of Romanoff pulling a Tricky Dick is hilarious.

"If someone just sticks to shutting the fuck up, can they still go outside and play a game of hide and go fuck yourself?" -- Fidel's Dirt Nap


[ Parent ]
Unfortunately for Romanoff
Everybody and their mother is going to run for Mayor, regardless of what he did.
[ Parent ]
Hey, Raphael, I like that
Hickenlooper needs someone from the Western Slope to run on the ticket. Who?



 For politics, geezers are golden.
by: BlueCat @ Tue Aug 16, 2011 at 19:19:14 PM MDT

[ Parent ]
is this a way to continue the musical chairs?
because then we could have Buescher as Lt. Gov, move Romanoff to SoS, and then, again, it's the Repubs left without a seat!

Actually though, I don't know if Hick would need a west sloper, and I have no idea if this is plausible, but what about someone like Sal Pace on the ticket to repair Hick's ties to labor? I agree with the consensus that labor will come out to vote for Hick regardless, but they might be a lot more enthusiastic in doing so if they had one of their own on the ticket as well.

Again, probably idealistic musings... but fun!

"If someone just sticks to shutting the fuck up, can they still go outside and play a game of hide and go fuck yourself?" -- Fidel's Dirt Nap


[ Parent ]
With Salazar out
I would expect a latino name on the ticket.
[ Parent ]
I don't know how much that would give Hick
like, how many extra people are going to vote, volunteer, or donate because there is a latino in the second slot? Especially considering that Ken already said no to the top spot. I dunno. Romanoff, labor, latino, west slope, all constituencies have their voters and advantages, just a matter as to which will give you the most for a Lt. Gov nod.

"If someone just sticks to shutting the fuck up, can they still go outside and play a game of hide and go fuck yourself?" -- Fidel's Dirt Nap


[ Parent ]
Whoever the dem is
they're gonna need help to get the same serious support labor gave to Ritter. Sal Pace would be excellent.
[ Parent ]
Westslope or Southslope, I think.
Hispanic and/or woman.
[ Parent ]
Also, does anyone have a premium account
with Rasmussen? I'd like a look or breakdown of the cross-tabs for this latest poll, but you need some fancy-schmacy account service. If anyone has access and would be willing to post something I would be much obliged.

"If someone just sticks to shutting the fuck up, can they still go outside and play a game of hide and go fuck yourself?" -- Fidel's Dirt Nap


Their approval ratings for Obama are never in the same ballpark as anyone else's.
The only thing they do well is poll for the winner going into elections.  

I'm crushed.  I think Hick is a good a candidate but the excitement Salazar would have generated in the Hispanic community would have been priceless in a midterm.

Romanoff for mayor sounds peachy.

[ Parent ]
On Rasmussen,
I think they have their problems, but as Nate Silver notes, differences in models does not necessarily reflect bias or mean that they are wrong, even if that makes them divergent from other polling bodies.

http://www.fivethirtyeight.com...

And I agree, Salazar would've done well, but I do believe that Hick can do just as well if not better, and this allows Ken to keep doing his thing at DoI.

As to Romanoff, see my new sig line.

"If someone just sticks to shutting the fuck up, can they still go outside and play a game of hide and go fuck yourself?" -- Fidel's Dirt Nap


[ Parent ]
Kos To The Rescue
Good News:  Daily Kos' polling firm Research 2000 will be polling Colorado next week.  They are a very reliable polling firm.

I've also been concerned that the polling void has been filled by the inaccurate and GOP-leaning Rasmussen which is then reported without qualification by the traditional media.

ITLDUSO  
Honk hello when you see my license plate!

[ Parent ]
Two Things
First: Y'all forget that McInnis has been campaigning. None of the potential Democratic nominees have campaigned for this office. Big surprise that the guy spending money and meeting voters statewide is polling above the two to three possibilities who've been busy in other jobs.

Second: I still hold out hope that Perlmutter will jump in here. We need someone with his expertise on finance issues. Hick is wonderful and a second choice that I'm perfectly happy with, but he doesn't make me want to hurry up and start volunteering yesterday like the idea of Perlmutter for Governor does.

We'll miss you, Gabby.

Um....
Why does the title say Hickenlooper WILL run?  There's not a corresponding update with any text to that effect...

"We're below sharks and contract killers." -- Rep. Trey Gowdy (R-S.C.), speaking on Congress's 9% approval rating
Yesterday Hick said
He would wait for Salazar's decision. With Ken out, I guess Pols just inferred that Hick was in. But you're right, no official announcement from Hizzoner yet.
[ Parent ]
I just hope...
that for all the opportunity, we don't go through an entire list of A-list Democrats to come up with no candidate.

"We're below sharks and contract killers." -- Rep. Trey Gowdy (R-S.C.), speaking on Congress's 9% approval rating
[ Parent ]
That's not gonna happen.
Even if Hick bowed out and my top pick didn't jump in, Romanoff is still waiting in the wings and would probably love to exit his primary where he's raising no money and getting no attention.

We'll miss you, Gabby.
[ Parent ]
I guess that I don't have ESP
I'm wrong. I like the Mayor.  

judge elected officials by their actions, not by their rhetoric
Ken = Hopium1; Hick = Hopium2
"Bipartisan Unitier" = Republican Coddler
You're really hooked on that hopium line, ain't you, boy?
A bit boring on the 453rd rendition, but I guess you have to go with what you've got.
[ Parent ]
How about a cage match between
Stargate and Liberturd? Maybe they could get rid of each other for us.
[ Parent ]
Yeah but without posters like Stargarite and Libertad
who would we mock endlessly? I mean, you gotta admit, a village without an idiot is a pretty boring village.

"If someone just sticks to shutting the fuck up, can they still go outside and play a game of hide and go fuck yourself?" -- Fidel's Dirt Nap


[ Parent ]
You got a point there, Raphael. LOL
I guess it takes a village to raise an idiot after all;-)
[ Parent ]
I stand corrected
Of course you're right.  What was I thinking?
[ Parent ]
I plan to keep saying it until it sinks in.
It's not enough to support Dems who who think they know who to spew buzz words to win elections but can't enact policies. The point is change, not the status quo comforting appearance of change. Cat and voyager know I'm right, and their attempt to marginalize me flows out of a a wannabe insider lemming mentality. They're absolutely terrified of a grassroots rebellion in the Democratic party. The designated followers aren't following this time, and that scares the shit out of them.
[ Parent ]
You take the same approach as the tea party-ers
Better to lose with a philosophically pure candidate than win with someone who is not exactly what you want.

Where all the cool kids will be on Saturday - Code War!
[ Parent ]
David , in William L. Shirer's epic
"Rise and Fall of the Third Reich" he noted that at the street tough level, Communists and Nazis often recruited from each other.  Their supposed ideological differences meant less than their shared aversion to moderates and their lust for radical, preferably violent, change.   Politics isn't really a left-right spectrum so much as a circle where if you go far enough away from the middle, no matter in which direction, you fight the far right converges with the far left.  
[ Parent ]
So now I've been compared to the Nazis...
...and I'm owed an apology. It's interesting how low the corporatist wing of the Democratic party is willing to sink to marginalize the progressive base. It's almost as if they would rather lose and blame progressives than actually have progressive policies enacted.
[ Parent ]
Just hold your breath, staggie
I'm sure that apology will be coming soon.  Then, reread the post.  You weren't "compared" to anyone, I merely noted Shirer's comments about the convergence of far left and far right.  So, if the shoe fits, wear it!
[ Parent ]
Voyager-->
I had a family member die in Buchenwald. You don't know me. You've not bothered to understand my argument. Shame on you.
[ Parent ]
I understand your argument. It's a ridiculous one.
Now, stop lying about mine.  
I've been to Yad Vashem and think I know what I'm talking about on this subject.  In your stupid rush to claim victimhood, you equated your position on the far left with being called a "Nazi."  Look up Ernst Thaelman on Google and then you can apologize to me for being a complete idiot.
[ Parent ]
You should have known better than to post that.
Thoughtful, intellectual comments are not typically welcome to purists such as Stagarite when they are in the middle of a major hissy fit. There was zero chance she was going to understand your larger point--much easier to accuse you of calling her a Nazi and play the "somebody I know died" sympathy card.

"I wouldn't characterize caloric intake as "professional development." c rork
[ Parent ]
I think the Nazi stuff is a bit much
But "maroon"? Come on, "maroon" is totally harmless.

"Have a Bobby bar! My dad made them." --Jon Huntsman Jr.
[ Parent ]
If you read the post, sxp, nobody compared Slugarite
to a nazi.  The quote from from Wm Shirer's history of the third reich, which noted the convergence of far left and far right.  He's been whining and bawling and chewing the carpet ever since, because his reading comprehension is right down there with his logic and manners.  To quote the great Philosopher Bugs Bunny...What a maroon!
[ Parent ]
No offense, but
even bringing up Nazis in such a context is unnecessary. Stagarite is not a Communist, and teabaggers are not Nazis. I appreciate the point you're making, but the use of that analogy just makes people angry and defensive without really informing anyone.

Besides, the convergence of the far left and far right doesn't really need any historical analogy or hypotheticals; Jane Hamsher's nutjob alliance with Grover Norquist is more than enough evidence of the dangers of the "my way or nothing" approach.

"Have a Bobby bar! My dad made them." --Jon Huntsman Jr.

[ Parent ]
+1 tip
Aside from my feelings about the caterwauling and the actual disappointment of not hearing a single name he could support.

You have captured my feelings on the issues related to said individual re Shirer although I am favorable disposed to the position expressed by B. Bunny.

[ Parent ]
"whining and bawling and chewing the carpet"
LMAO! I'm dying here!
[ Parent ]
Sure, I'm amused by maroon (sic) crack.
It was a self-discrediting insult. However, as your grandmother might have said, it's the thought that counts. What's interesting is the amount of vitriol these corporate Dems are directing at a member of their own party. Tomorrow, or on another thread, they'll be giving self-important lectures on "party unity"  and about how we all need to pull together to win.  
[ Parent ]
pffft
"vitriol"
Your hyperbole reveals your partisan priorities.

Otherwise most posters' registered affiliation is not public. Some of us have acknowledged or outed our registered affiliation and voting preference.  But you don't know the party affiliation of the posters here. Or at least I don't.

As for "maroon" a quick search of the site shows that it has been used as a Bugs bunny reference for years.  Occasionally with embedded Youtube of the Bugster.

We need a diary about partisan loyalty and partisan priorities.

I can't write it - I've tried.  But I cannot capture the wisdom and joy of party loyalty in the face of less than 50% probability of victory.

If you can write it- please do.

Until then, let's agree that we don't really know motivates other voters. Not always.   I don't anyway.  example- Here in CD 6 we  nominate D's with no apparent regard for whether they can win.  They get 40 - 44% of the total vote (or less) and that corresponds pretty closely yo 80-90% of registered D's and 20-30% of U's.  The math says it's not enough* to win, but people still vote for that candidate.  Why?

*The math, especially before the race, should not be the sole determining factor, but it does seem to matter in such a way that neither should be no factor.

And - no complaint or criticism of specific candidates or campaigns - candidates who are running against the numbers can hardly ever rely on just executing the campaign 101 playbook flawlessly and being smart and correct on the issues.  The math is what it is. If you can't change it, you gotta change the way you campaign.

[ Parent ]
You can always gin up that dichotomy.
I'm not buying it this time. If the bagger wins, it will be due to leadership failure at the top of the CO Democratic Party, a failure to motivate the progressive base.

Now address my substantive point about change vs. the status quo comforting appearance of change. If a nonentity like Salazar or Bennet wins an election and opens yet another Washington Waffle House, what, prey, has been achieved? In what sense can I say that I've had a satisfactory return on my time and money? Frame your answer in terms of furthering the greater good rather than avoiding the greater evil.

[ Parent ]
The substantive point if that you're a fool.
Address that!
[ Parent ]
You're doing just fine yourself. n/t

[ Parent ]
What Dave said
Winning tastes better. All of nothing... not very filling. Did you really like it better when Rs held our state legislature, the Gov's house, the majority of our congressional delegation and every vote was a vote against anything approaching a progressive agenda?  

That's where we'd still be if we were stupid enough to listen to maroons like you.  All the progress has been made with close to the center candidates who only vote the way we want 85% to 90% of the time as opposed to never.  Call us crazy but we really don't want to go back to the days of 0% for bragging rights about not giving an inch.

[ Parent ]
So now I'm being called a "maroon."
There does seem to be an attempt marginalize me on some island somewhere.

Now, seriously, we've got a Senate healthcare bill that put the insurance industry in a better position than it was prior to its enactment. (Don't believe me, google health insurance stock prices between Oct. 2009 and now and compare their rate of appreciation with other securities.) Can you in all honesty tell me you're satisfied? You appear to have incredibly low expectations, Cat.

[ Parent ]
Hey, find 60 votes in the Senate for the public option
And I'll be right behind you in your demands. The bill we have is better than the status quo and was the most that they could get through the Senate. Politics is many times the least bad alternative.

Where all the cool kids will be on Saturday - Code War!
[ Parent ]
By the way...
...you're a sensitive guy. Do you repudiate your friends calling me a maroon (sic) and a Nazi? Or does your sensitivity just go out to people on your side?
[ Parent ]
I don't think anyone called you a Nazi
Bob was just pointing out why the far left and far right have a lot in common - and used the political mess in the Wiemar Republic as an example.

As to others calling you a maroon, put on your big boy pants if you're going to play here. I get called a lot worse at times. Politics is a contact sport.

Where all the cool kids will be on Saturday - Code War!

[ Parent ]
That was clearly implied in the comment.
One of my family members died in Buchenwald. He was a communist partizan in Yugoslavia fighting the Nazis. His parish priest turned him in to the Gestapo. No doubt the priest was a lesser of two evils guy working within the constraints of the system--much like you.
[ Parent ]
Did you just compare David to a Nazi collaborator?
What the fuck? I mean, fucking hell you have some nerve.

"Have a Bobby bar! My dad made them." --Jon Huntsman Jr.
[ Parent ]
What a maroon! n/t

[ Parent ]
Nobody is going out of their way to marginalize you
You're doing a damned fine job all by yourself.

Today, you're either going to get better or you're going to get worse, but you're never going to be the same.  Which one will it be?  --Joseph V. Paterno
[ Parent ]
Ralphie-->
Do you condone your allies comparing me to a Nazi or referring to me as a maroon (sic)? Are you willing to let corporate Dems sink that low?  
[ Parent ]
You make a couple of erroneous assumptions
1) that I have "allies" here.  Far from it.  I just think you're making progressives look bad.

2) that I or anyone else knows what a "corporate Dem" is.  It's your vernacular, please explain it.  Am I a "corporate Dem" because I own a small business?  Is David?  (Hint: I'm registered U)

Today, you're either going to get better or you're going to get worse, but you're never going to be the same.  Which one will it be?  --Joseph V. Paterno

[ Parent ]
ASSumptions
Might want to stop assuming that every Dem in Colorado is a progressive.  Yes, the Democratic Party has a "progressive" wing, just as the Republican Party has a "tea party" wing.  However, aggregating everyone to fit your personal views isn't an accurate representation of the whole.
[ Parent ]
Sam-->
Are you willing to risk trying to win without us?  
[ Parent ]
By the way...
...did anybody notice that the progressive wing of the Democratic Party just got equated with teabaggers? Anybody else feeling motivated?
[ Parent ]
Not the progressive wing
Most of the people disagreeing with you here are progressive. I'm progressive. What we're doing is observing the common thread between tea-baggers and people out on the far far left like you. In both cases you prefer intellectual purity to success and incremental progress.

Where all the cool kids will be on Saturday - Code War!
[ Parent ]
So, progressive David, where are you on card check?

[ Parent ]
*crickets* n/t

[ Parent ]
Here's the deal about Colorado progressives, Stargate
We aren't all part of one big tea party style mind meld.  We don't have a single talking points list handed down from on high with deviaition resulting in expulsion. We know where we live and what it takes to win here.  Crickets are what appear to be between your ears.  
[ Parent ]
Speaking of crickets,
I either missed your answer as to who you would like to see for Governor or you just evaded the question for 3 days straight while you continue your bitch fest.

"I wouldn't characterize caloric intake as "professional development." c rork
[ Parent ]
I think it's irrelevant
The big problem unions face is not card check, it's that they have not adapted to the times.

I also think it's more important that the decision of if a workplace should be unionized should happen quickly. The delaying tactics allow for all kinds of games by the company.

Where all the cool kids will be on Saturday - Code War!

[ Parent ]
Re: "progressive vs tea party wings"
Stagarite,

The reason people are looking at you as a "maroon" (spelled "moran" in modern times) is that you're showing yourself incapable of understanding (or expressing) nuance.

Voyageur's comment is no different (except by example) than something I've said (I think here) in the past - that if you go far enough to the left, it isn't too hard to find the far right staring you in the face.

And I don't take Sam's "comparison" any differently - there is a corporatist wing of the Democratic party just like there's a liberal wing of the Republican party, just like...

If you think that many of the "Democratic" posters here don't want, ideally, radical progressive change (e.g. a single-payer health care system), then I think you're wrong.  The reason progressive legislators seem to always wind up caving (based on your idea of what should have happened) is that they'd rather have half a loaf of change than none at all - and they have to work with their more conservative colleagues.

Simply put, "try winning without us" swings both ways.  The Democratic Party is in power now because it has a larger tent than the Republican Party (and because Republicans screwed up so badly).  IMHO, the population fo this country is liberal - until it comes to election time, at which point the conservative fear of the pocketbook comes in to play.  If you want to overcome that fear, you've got to work in increments.

"We're below sharks and contract killers." -- Rep. Trey Gowdy (R-S.C.), speaking on Congress's 9% approval rating

[ Parent ]
I'm sure you control a bloc of votes.
"One" is the number that comes to mind...
[ Parent ]
Bob - that's totally unfair
I'm guessing there are at least 5 or 6 votes total.

Where all the cool kids will be on Saturday - Code War!
[ Parent ]
Only if you use Rasmussen methodology;-)

[ Parent ]
Could they form a caucus within the D party
or should they splinter and be the maroon party?
[ Parent ]
They could have their convention atop the Maroon Bells!

[ Parent ]
In writing, no less!
The above dialog says a lot about the level of conversation and thought that appears here with ever-greater consistency. Whereas the right-wing Democrats on the site can't wait to dump on "purists," they themselves take the position "our way or the highway," assuming that "Republican lite" is the only route to success.

Is it? It wasn't for H Clinton, as I remember. Didn't seem to be working well for Bill Ritter. If U's in the state want Republicans, why wouldn't they vote for them...instead of Democrats in disguise?

Meantime, the personal attacks reach a new low -- and yes, the PlyFer theory ("meaning" lies between what's implied and what's inferred) says that merely mentioning Nazis and Communists will be taken to suggest that someone being attacked is a "Nazi" or a "Communist" from '30s Germany-- but not for long, I would expect. It is what ColoradoPols has become to a great extent, half a dozen (or so) bored people chatting among friends (Salazar for Governor! Hickenloopdeloop for Governor! Whomever the In-Crowd Says for Governor!) and lashing out in crude ways at those outside their little self-satisfied circle, often encouraged by "editors" of the site at least one of whom considers it appropriate to put down one poster in her sig line!

[ Parent ]
Republican-lite
Obama got a fair amount of criticism early on for echoing right-wing talking points (about Social Security, for example). He also advocated "bipartisanship" or even "postpartisanship," while Clinton seemed to me to have a better understanding of just why bipartisanship probably wouldn't work out well.

The most popular "purist" candidate in that election was Complete Fraud John Edwards, although I can think of some people I used to know who probably stopped caring once Kucinich dropped out.

You supported Obama at some point, right? He was far more corporatist than Kucinich, self-evidently and early on. Did you feel like you were selling out at some point?

"Have a Bobby bar! My dad made them." --Jon Huntsman Jr.

[ Parent ]
I was referring only to posts on ColoradoPols
and to the quality of discussions that focus almost exclusively on ad hominem attacks and labels without bothering to address underlying issues.
[ Parent ]
Kucinich
was right about almost everything.

He got two things wrong: he thought America would get his sense of humor and he actually thought he could win.

Otherwise he was right about just about everything.

[ Parent ]
I asked yesterday
who of the likely candidates would you support for governor?

I think the Democrats have a deep bench each possible candidate with different appeal.  Some of which is purely electoral, not just theirs, but down ballot or long term, some of which how they would govern.

I understand you don't care about their electoral prospects, a valid position, but if you are going to criticize you should have an alternative.

[ Parent ]
When a suitable candidate announces...
...I'll deliver my coveted endorsement. However, I need to be courted. At the moment, well, I'm undermotivated. Perhaps if we had competent leadership at the top of the party...
[ Parent ]
So right now you can not offer a candidate you would like to see
You also would like the prospective candidates to spend their time courting the left wing of the party.

Personally I would love a very progressive candidate (I can think of several), but I would prefer they spend time speaking to the swing voters that will decide the election.

[ Parent ]
If a candidate wants my support...
...he or she has to earn it. The first step is that they or their supporters have to ask me for it. Comparing me to a Nazi or calling me a maroon (sic) isn't helpful. By the way, do you repudiate that sort of web conduct?
[ Parent ]
I have called you no such thing
Are you asking for me to apologize for other people's conduct or to be responsible for it?

I generally avoid name calling (Libertad excluded), but if you are asking me to take a side in your dispute with others regarding conduct, I would recommend against it as you may not like my position.  

[ Parent ]
You didn't understand my question.
Your allies on this thread have compared me to a Nazi and called me a maroon (sic). Without changing your position, do you repudiate that conduct?
[ Parent ]
My allies?
Here comes what you will perceive as an insult, but it is not intended as one.  Why do you feel so persecuted as to assume there is a cabal against you?

Since I do not want you to feel more persecuted, I was merely asking if you had an acceptable candidate in mind, I will smile politely and say that's an interesting question.

[ Parent ]
On general principles...
...do you think it's acceptable to call people maroons (sic) or compare them to Nazis? In what way is this furthering of party unity? For somebody who complains about me not answering a question, you're displaying a hell of allot of evasiveness yourself.
[ Parent ]
When it's an accurate description - absolutely
Not to answer for Danny but one of the things I appreciate about the web is people are direct.

Where all the cool kids will be on Saturday - Code War!
[ Parent ]
So just to get this straight...
...you like it when people compare me to a Nazi or call me a maroon (sic), but you don't have the stones to do it yourself?
[ Parent ]
Last reply to you
Because it appears that you don't understand what people here are saying. You asked a general question of is it ok to use certain descriptive terms. My reply was that when they are accurate - yes.

I personally don't think you're a Nazi. On the moron question - based on your posts I think it's a fair assumption. But mostly I think you're a cry-baby.

Where all the cool kids will be on Saturday - Code War!

[ Parent ]
And I think you're a kiss-ass. n/t

[ Parent ]
No dog in this fight here
but isn't "maroon" something Bugs Bunny used to call people?
[ Parent ]
I wish my critics were that cleaver. n/t

[ Parent ]
I like Ken Salazar and would have supported him as Gov candidate.
But with him out one thing is true-

Caplis and Caplis-lite are going to have to back track on the "Obama & Salazar coup*"  bs they cooked up yesterday.  Perhaps something like this just proves how disorganized and ineffective the Obama administration is cause they cou;dn't even get their handpicked guy.

Either way, Caplis will have dreamt up some way that this is good for R's and bad for D's.

*Caplis & Silverman, 630 KHOW, Jan 6 2010

Wynkoop Hopium Porter
Kiss Ass Ken says:
John Hickenlooper is a uniter. He transcends political and geographic divides to bring people together to develop solutions.

Translation: Good 'ol Hick, he can appease the GOP just as good as me.
[ Parent ]
Who would you prefer?
Keep in mind Eugene V. Debs has been dead for some time.
[ Parent ]
There's always Ralph Nader. n/t

[ Parent ]
Faulty dichotomy. n/t

[ Parent ]
It was a joke
But my subject question was serious. Of the politicians who could potentially even think about running, who would your preferred candidate be?
[ Parent ]
just posed the Q above
great minds
[ Parent ]
The only person I can think of who would satisfy Stag
Is Morgan Carroll. She would be good, but I don't even think she could win a contested primary. I think all of this is founded on his false premise that progressives are the majority of the Colorado Democratic Party.

"The base" is actually a severely fragmented collection of somewhat overlapping interest groups with different opinions and ideologies. But the people who Stag thinks are "real" progressives (everyone else is a "corporatist") make up a very small percentage of Colorado Dems--virtually all of whom are in the metro area.

[ Parent ]
Even in Boulder
In the last City Council election one of the winners was a **gasp** Republican.

Where all the cool kids will be on Saturday - Code War!
[ Parent ]
Double gasp

[ Parent ]
The clarifying question...
...is merely whether or not you're willing to bet that you can win without us. If you don't think you can, then you'd better encourage establishment Dems to start courting us. After all, if there's all that love out there for Joe Lieberman and Ben Nelson, there's gotta be a little left over for us.

It's interesting to see that there's some pretty heavy rhetorical artillery being used against me at the moment. Apparently, those using it actually think I'm kinda dangerous and need to be silenced. In that respect, they've tipped their hands and tacitly recognized the power behind what I've been saying. If you're savvy as you think you are, you'll do the same.

[ Parent ]
Actually
I think you should keep talking.

In the process, please try to clarify exactly how many votes you control.  Because anytime someone issues half an ultimatum ("You'd better encourage establishment Dems to start courting us") someone else might ask, "or what?"

Today, you're either going to get better or you're going to get worse, but you're never going to be the same.  Which one will it be?  --Joseph V. Paterno

[ Parent ]
By that logic
We're terrified of Libertad.

I don't think your "threats" scare anyone, but I think there are a lot of people who enjoy conversing with someone with whom they disagree. I know that you might be confused about that given where you usually blog, but don't confuse a spirited debate for anything than what it is.  

[ Parent ]
You're in denial about the base problem.
Simply put, Democratic failure to deliver on campaign promises has put many of us in an untenable position. A clear pattern of exploitation of the base by vested economic interests within the Democratic party is now visible to anybody who wants to see it. People like me who ask people to volunteer time and give money need to believe in what we do if we are going to ask in good faith. This is a matter of conscience for me. Please don't belittle it by referring to it as a "threat."  
[ Parent ]
I think you're making a mistake
by thinking that the majority of posters on this site don't match the description you just made of yourself.
[ Parent ]
If you're correct...
...then we're dealing with naive or unprincipled people. We need to be able to ask people to do things without nagging doubts that their good will will be exploited.

Oh, and as a bit of trivia, a member of my family died in Buchenwald. He was a communist partizan in Yugoslavia. His parish priest turned him in to the Gestapo. No doubt the priest thought that he had allied himself with the lesser evil and was acting morally within the constraints of the situation.  

[ Parent ]
As you might say
You don't know me either. Virtually my entire family on my father's side was murdered by the Nazis--only my grandparents got out alive because, when my grandpa and grandma, after having escaped Warsaw with their lives, were caught near the Poland/USSR border by a squad of SS, and a cocky German officer said if my grandpa got down on his knees and begged for his life he would be spared.

While I think Voyageur definitely confirmed Godwin's law (in a thread about Ritter's replacement of all threads) I don't think he was calling you a Nazi. I also don't think that equates me as a collaborator as you apparently do. Also, in doing so, haven't you just equated everyone else with Nazi sympathizers? That's gotta be only slightly better than equating someone with a Nazi.

Real fun trading holocaust stories with you though.

[ Parent ]
Strange, though.
Someone with your history standing back and letting the Nazi comparison go through...possibly because  it abets a marginalization process of which, apparently, you approve.
[ Parent ]
My point being, redstate...
...that nobody has to be a functionary. Not even you.
[ Parent ]
I should have called him on it, I agree
But I've been trying not to get bogged down in personal back and forths between posters lately. I thought SXP did a good job.

Honestly I've seen so many Nazi comparisons getting thrown around in the last two years in American politics I've grown numb.

[ Parent ]
Bow Down to the Wizzard of Oz.
And whatever you do, don't pull back the curtain.
[ Parent ]
Well said
Democrats don't have a SINGLE base, just like Republicans don't have a SINGLE base. There is no catch-all description of a Democrat or a Republican. You're not MORE of a Democrat or MORE of a Republican if you are more left or right of center -- you're just your own version of it.

There are a lot of people who would consider themselves as party of the Democratic or Republican "base" that likely don't agree on more than 60% of the issues.  

[ Parent ]
So so true Co Pols
Great post. It didn't make me laugh out loud like Voyageur's carpet eating post, but great in a non funny kind of way.
[ Parent ]
Yeah, Stargate
Who do you recommend, not just to run but to run and win?  
[ Parent ]
I need to be courted.
The coveted Stagarite endorsement will come as, Hopium2 says, after I take an  "appropriate time to consider whether [it] is the right thing to do."
[ Parent ]
Stagartad's ideal candidate
Maurice Schwenkler
[ Parent ]
Once again...
...a corporatist Dem takes the low road. How low will they go when the designated followers fail to play ball?
[ Parent ]
Gee, I don't know, Stagartad
maybe break out windows at D HQ?
[ Parent ]
Stay classy, Western Slope Oxymoron n/t

[ Parent ]
Just because your pals at "Recreate '68"
might have given you the boot, does not mean you will find sympathy here.
[ Parent ]
So, Stargate, you have no clue
who would make a good candidate.  We'll just add that to the list.
[ Parent ]
How Do You Solve a Problem Like Romanoff?
I love everything, except Romanoff still (apparently) running for Senate.

Salazar is a great Interior Secretary.
Bennet is a great US Senator.
Hickenlooper will be a great Governor.
Ritter will be able to make budget decisions that are the right thing to do rather than just politically expedient (i.e., cut special interest tax exemptions).

I think Romanoff should just accept a plum job appointment (many have been offered) and continue to be a great public servant.



ITLDUSO  
Honk hello when you see my license plate!

I don't think mayor is such a crazy idea.
I think it would be a good fit for Romanoff. Denver is his pond and he'd get to be the big fish.  
[ Parent ]
Just out from Hick
DENVER, CO ­- THURSDAY, Jan. 7, 2010 - Mayor John Hickenlooper responded to Secretary Ken Salazar's announcement today:

"We are very grateful and honored for Secretary Salazar's support. Secretary Salazar is one of Colorado's finest and we greatly admire his public service. This doesn't change our course. My family and I will take the appropriate time to consider whether a run for governor is the right thing to do."

NOTE TO MEDIA: Mayor Hickenlooper will make no additional public statements about a possible run for governor until a decision is made.

With most politicians this would be B.S. meaning they're just waiting a day to announce. But with Hick, I think this is sincere.

Where all the cool kids will be on Saturday - Code War!

Sincere is the nicest construction
Remember how long he left Ritter twisting? Let's hope this time he keeps his navel gazing time to a minimum. Come on Hick.  Don't go all flaky on us.  Give us a yes or no so we can get this wrapped up. And if it's no, I hope Salazar will reconsider.
[ Parent ]
Agreed
If Hick and Salazar are both out, then we basically go back to square one in terms of candidates. Those are the only two who have enough electoral positives to create an advantage for Dems.

Perlmutter and Romanoff would both be good Guvs, but as far as candidates go, I think the Mayor and Sec. Salazar are the strongest.

[ Parent ]
I think we have two more that are very strong
Perlmutter and Kennedy. Perlmutter killed in the most evenly balanced district in the state. And Kennedy ran a great state-wide campaign. Either one would rock.

I also think John Salazar and Betsy Markey could strongly win. But in those cases we likely give up a house seat.

I don't think Romanoff can do it. His Senate campaign has been so poor, I questions his campaigning ability. (I still think we owe him a big thank you and would do a great job governing - but you have to be able to get elected.)

Where all the cool kids will be on Saturday - Code War!

[ Parent ]
Cary Kennedy
Suburban Women.
[ Parent ]
True
And she has proven she can win statewide. But, according to sources close to the campaign, she would defer to Perlmutter (I think) and Romanoff (I know).
[ Parent ]
Three of whom have heard of her
I'm counting myself.

History does not repeat itself, but it does rhyme.  (Mark Twain)
[ Parent ]
Good point, PERA
Perlmutter would be the next best choice but Dems need to get going on this and Hick needs to know this is no time to play will he, won't he. He needs to man up or get the hell out of the way ASAP.  
[ Parent ]
Ok Republicans - bring it on!!!!!!!
I just realized that I have gotten so charged up the last couple of days.

1. Bill Ritter was a great example of family should come first. Something we should all try to live up to.

2. We have this incredible bench of superbly qualified candidates to run for Governor.

3. The ordering and handling of who should run and how they announce has been amazingly well handled.

4. Meanwhile McInnis & Norton seems to be in a race for the bottom.

We Dems rock! I'm ready for the election tomorrow. We're going to take everything in Colorado that's close - and a number that were considered safely Republican.

Bring it on!!!

Where all the cool kids will be on Saturday - Code War!

Ok David
1. That family crap is a nice cover and I'm sure the wife believes it .... the driving reason he ran for the showers in the 4th Quarter has yet to be revealed.  In the meantime, it's a nice cover.

2 & 3. Some incredible bench: Hick defers to Kenny; Kenny reviews polls, notes commitment to Barry and backs Hick; then Hick can't commit.  WTF?

Democrats say that Salazar had seen the initial results of flash polling that looked at both he and Hickenlooper would fare against presumed Republican front-runner Scott McInnis, but the Interior Secretary gave no indication of what the results were or how they impacted his decision. Evergreen businessman Dan Maes is also seeking the GOP nomination.

Read more: http://www.denverpost.com/news...

Anyone have the polling data on how much Hick is kicking McInnis' ass by? ;)

I hear its McInnis 46, Hick 39 D'oh thats some bench.


[ Parent ]
and people are comparing me to this? n/t

[ Parent ]
Stop trolling Pols
And you will stop being compared to Libertad.

I'll give you this, you're at least a smart troll. Libertad is just persistent.

[ Parent ]
Yes
You're at the opposite end of the political spectrum, but you're equally factless and annoying.

Today, you're either going to get better or you're going to get worse, but you're never going to be the same.  Which one will it be?  --Joseph V. Paterno
[ Parent ]
Comparing Stagger Lee to Libertad is unfair...to Libertad

[ Parent ]
Could someone explain--how taking into account all 64 counties
how Mayor Hickenlooper can win a statewide race.
This is no disrespect to the Mayor because I think he is doing a good job--but dont see how he can win statewide.
He made a lot of connections with people outside of Denver
during the Ref C campaign. Not only that, but among Denver Metro politicians, he's one of the most well known.
[ Parent ]
Because 80 percent of the votes are in the Front Range.
And Hickenlooper support is deep among Republicans, especially in metro Denver.  It's McInnis, coming from Grand Junction and all but unknown in the metro area, who has to scramble for a base.  
[ Parent ]
Voyageur is exactly correct
We've been saying this over and over for years on Colorado Pols. Colorado has changed significantly in the last decade, to the point where 80-85% of active voters reside along the Front Range between Ft. Collins and Pueblo.

This is no disrespect to the West Slope, but the numbers don't lie -- there just aren't enough voters out there to swing an election anymore. As a statewide candidate, if you win the Front Range, you only need to be mildly competitive (35-40%) around the rest of the state and you're golden.

In 2006, Ken Salazar beat Pete Coors because of Denver voters. He received so many more votes in Denver than Coors -- if memory serves, it was well over 100,000 -- that any advantage Coors might have had in rural areas was completely erased.

If you don't do well along the Front Range, and particularly in more populated Metro Denver (Denver, Jefferson, Arapahoe counties), then you can't win statewide. It's an unfortunate reality in Colorado, but the vast majority of our 64 counties are irrelevent in a statewide race because of their small populations.


[ Parent ]
As a resident of one of the "irrelevent" counties I resemble that remark!
Why, I haven't been called irrelevant since . . . since . . . since the State ended my job a month ago!
[ Parent ]
100,520 total votes
For county by county, or any other break - look it up and let us know.

ANd not long before that we elected a governor who polled very weak in Denver metro, but did really well outside Denver and won by a narrow margin.

Turnout will make all the difference, but predicatable turnouts in the urban areas will win the predicted turnouts out side of those areas.

[ Parent ]
Sniff:(

[ Parent ]
Agreed
But as part of that analysis, we have to start looking at those Front Range voters who live in Larimer and Weld counties - two counties where populations have exploded over the last 10 years.  A candidate who can carry at least one of those counties and remain competitive in the other, and pick up Dem votes in Denver/Jeffco is a shoe in.  Both Ken Salazar and Bill Ritter knew how to do that.

Which is why I am surprised Betsy Markey hasn't been discussed more as a candidate.  She probably does not want to leave a House seat...but looking at just electoral math on paper, she'd be one of the smartest picks.

[ Parent ]
Is there an electoral college in Colorado now?
Wikipedia says 60% of Colorado's population lives in the 12 counties comprising Denver-Aurora-Boulder area. So Hickenlooper could theoretically not get a single vote from any of 52 counties and still win by a landslide.

"Have a Bobby bar! My dad made them." --Jon Huntsman Jr.
[ Parent ]
Hick also led Denver back into Colorado Counties, Inc.
and has made great efforts to build ties with rural commissioners and other leaders.  I'm sure any poll would show Hickenlooper has higher name ID in, say, Delta County than McInnis has in Arapahoe County.
[ Parent ]
Agreement
Hickenlooper would do well, if not win in Summit, Eagle, Routt, Pitkin and La Plata due to his high name ID.  Does anyone have name ID poll numbers for Hickenlooper versus McInnis?  

As a West Sloper, I grudgingly agree with Pols, there is no such thing as a statewide race.  As long as a candidate can win the metro area, the plains and the West Slope are inconsequential.  No one out here will ever admit or perhaps even realize that, but its the truth.

That said, much like the sage and measured Stagarite, we on the West Slope prefer to be courted a bit--if for no other reason than to make us feel pretty.  However, unlike Stagarite, we can at least help out in an election bid, albeit in a nominal manner of looking useful in photo ops.  

[ Parent ]
I'm an eastern plains native, Sam and Realist
and even Grand Junction looks big compared to Joes.  I do believe in statewide races.  Mesa may be 2-1 R and Denver 2-1 D.   But a Democrat who can cut into the R majority in Mesa, like Bernie Buescher, without losing the D majorities in Denver, Pueblo, Boulder, etc. is well on the way to victory.
 It just that you have to start with a base.  As sxp151 notes, metro denver is 60 percent of the state.  That's hick's base.  A lot more voters in Littleton know who he is than who is mayor of Littleton.  the saturation coverage of Hick by Denver media actually makes him known statewide.  But to win, he needs to go out to Lamar, Sterling, Craig, Montrose, etc. and work this state.  But I'd rather start with the 60 pct of metro denver as my base and work the ropeline in the rest of the state than begin with the approximately 12 percent that lives in the Western Slope portion of McInnis' old CD and be a stranger to 88 percent of the state
[ Parent ]
Joes?
Had a lot of great meals at the Reynolds Cafe as a kid.  You a Liberty Knight?  We used to refer to Joes as "Little Chicago" ...oh, those were the days.
[ Parent ]
Actually, I was a Holyoke Dragon
I've just always been fond of Joes.
[ Parent ]
Good God youre back from your self imposed exile?

[ Parent ]
Wow, it took you that long to figure out
I may have overestimated you. And that's really saying something.
[ Parent ]
How's the job hunting going redstate?
The eastern plains stuff confirmed what I had thought.  Great writing style, unlike your drivel.

[ Parent ]
I have a full-time job
Unloading your bullshit off the Libertad dumptrack.
[ Parent ]
Yet another example of the free market working for the Dem
I guess I'm a job creater ... with no corrupt stimulus cash needed
[ Parent ]
Ok, now that was kind of funny

[ Parent ]
Nothing self-imposed about it, Libby.
My separation package had a one-year nocompete clause that covered blogs.
[ Parent ]
Big Bob
i hope you're still this handsome


[ Parent ]
Ever more so, my natural resemblance to Robert Redford is coming out!
Actually, I shaved the beard because it had turned white and made me look even older than I am.
[ Parent ]
My family were Wray Eagles...
..during the Bob Smith wrestling dynasty.
[ Parent ]
Fabulous. Wray had the wrestlers all right.
When I was there they had one kid, Gene Stallings was his name I think, who had one leg.  In a bizarre way, people envied him because he'd take off his prosthetic leg to weigh in and could wrestle a class below his torso weight.  As I recall, he was pretty good.
Wray had the wrestlers and Yuma the football dynasty.  I remember playing defensive tackle on a goal line stand when Bernie McCall came running at me./  I hit him with all I had and he wouldn't go down.  I hung on until help arrived and stopped him.  Next play he paid me the compliment of running to the other side and scored.
[ Parent ]
ahhh, the football dynasty
..and the 1953 Homecoming game when Wray upset Yuma and they still haven't gotten over it!  Come to think of it they still haven't gotten over the fact we moved the Court House from Yuma to Wray after the local bar owner offered free pickled pigs feet on election day 100 years ago to anyone who would come to Wray and vote to have it moved!  The more things change, the more they stay the same
[ Parent ]
Everyone has to have a base
Hick's is Denver, with over 10% of the states population, and McInnis' Grand Junction, with less than 1% of the population.  Neither has run for nor been elected to state-wide office.  I don't think it is a stretch to say that Hick has got more name recognition that McInnis.  
[ Parent ]
Name recognition can be bought
Let's be realistic, however.  By the time Hick gets in, IF he gets in, McInnis will be two quarters ahead in fundraising.

I'm not saying if he can/can't make up that deficit, because I don't follow Denver politics and don't know that much about him.

The same problem will be faced by anyone getting in now.  I think Salazar could have plugged into his Rolodex and made up the gap fairly quickly.  But he's not running.

Today, you're either going to get better or you're going to get worse, but you're never going to be the same.  Which one will it be?  --Joseph V. Paterno

[ Parent ]
In theory
Can't Ritter refund all of his campaign contributions with the hope that most of it will be re-contributed to the Democratic gubernatorial nominee?
[ Parent ]
Let's just say that Hickenlooper would not . . .
be lacking for money if he enters the race.

Discipline without purpose is tyranny.
[ Parent ]
The business community adores Hickenlooper
and the last I looked, they were the major source of campaign contributions.  
[ Parent ]
You just confirmed my point.
Thank you.  
[ Parent ]
You're welcome.
Now, read Page Smith's 8 volume People's History of the United States.  I doubt you'll learn anything from it, but at least it will keep you from embarrassing yourself on this blog.
[ Parent ]
Not a biggie in the Gov race
As most is 3rd party spending

Where all the cool kids will be on Saturday - Code War!
[ Parent ]
I've been involved in two campaigns
where more was spent by third parties.  In each, the third-party money made it impossible for the candidate to control his or her own message.

Candidate funding is far preferable to third-party funding, even if the third-party is on your side.


Today, you're either going to get better or you're going to get worse, but you're never going to be the same.  Which one will it be?  --Joseph V. Paterno

[ Parent ]
Hick would be awesome.
He's got managerial experience of budgets and a huge bureaucracy, is innovative, quirky, and would make a great governor.  He would have a learning curve to tackle state issues, but I have no doubt he could handle it.

As a candidate, he's very charming, outgoing, and smart.  He's also quick on the 1 liners and can engage an individual or crowd.  McInnis should be deeply worried.

To be "deeply worried"
wouldn't Scott have to be thinking deeply?
[ Parent ]
Congrats CoPols


Exercise your right to peaceably assemble and reclaim the commons. Stop the militarization of America.
200th comment!!
Woo!!

"If someone just sticks to shutting the fuck up, can they still go outside and play a game of hide and go fuck yourself?" -- Fidel's Dirt Nap


Thursday Open Thread on Gov. Race: It Looks Like Hickenlooper | 224 comments
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