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November 03, 2021 06:45 AM UTC

Wednesday Open Thread

  • by: Colorado Pols

“Trust is a great force multiplier.”

–Tom Ridge


65 thoughts on “Wednesday Open Thread

    1. This year was a "when in doubt, vote no" year.  Not an unreasonable default.

      FWIW, the teacher community I am familiar with was split on 119. but there was a distinct suspicion that 119 was a stalking horse for private charters.

      1. Prop 119 was about diverting public education money into funding un-credentialed teachers for charter schools and home-schooling.

        Republicans can't win in Colorado which is trending young and urban, so they try to push referenda and initiatives. Anti-tax is about the only policy position Conservative hold which has popular support.

        Let's see them run anti-abortion campaign, or another recall against Governor Polis. 

      2. Right. I also think it is time for the state (and every other governmental body IN the state) to stop piling on Cannabis as a funding mechanism for whatever spending program they have in mind.

        I guess they don't mind supporting the untaxed "Green Market".

          1. Since almost nobody knows the tax rate on alcohol, just the retail price and (maybe) local sales tax, I think there would be LOTS of upheaval if there were taxation, licensing requirements, and enforcement at equivalent levels. 

            I know there isn't going to be an effort anytime soon to make the approaches equal, as originally talked about.  But at some point, I think there ought to be legislative inquiry into the two different schemes, with a view towards making them "the best of both worlds."

            1. The other thing that could happen is some consumers, or perhaps retailers, parsing out the taxes on alcohol, as opposed to those on cannabis. Then they could bring suit against the state over the absurd taxes laid against cannabis as compared with those against alcohol, in violation of the state constitutional amendment. 

  1. Oh, Jr. did you do one too many rails last night? Remember that time your dad presided over the largest electoral defeat in House history, and lost the Senate and the White House all in four years?



    1. He may be getting ahead of himself. It is a year until the midterms.

      Major Garrett of CBS ventured this morning that the difference in VA. was suburban Unaffiliateds. Youngkin capitalized on the stupidity of saying parents should butt out of their kids education. Many parents don't give a shit about their kids education as long as they get out of the house. But…most parents DO care.

      Once again..a phony message "trumps" the truth.

  2. Congressional progressives, Joe Manchin and his side kick Sinoma have no one to blame but themselves for the national disaster and possible threat to Colorado. The middle has always been where America votes.  Biden comprimised to the best for pogressives given then other two.  Why is that so hard for congress to understand.  Now Joe has to work to restore his own parties favor with the American people.  Am I angry this morning?  I am.  It didn't have to happen.

    1. Wakeup call for Democrats. I found Josh Marshall's and Rachel Bitecofer's takes the most useful.

      And you might look at that [Biden's low approvals] and wonder "what? how?" given how much of a turbulent shit show Trump was. Diff is in the two party's coalitions. Rs & R leaners are more loyal than Ds & D leaners. And folks- that's a big driver of underperformance in VA & NJ

      "Youngkin Defeats McAuliffe"

      Which brings us to the real reason for this defeat: President Biden is unpopular. From the late summer into the fall his approval rating has dropped some ten points, a big and rapid drop in an era of highly polarized electorates. Why? A sour public mood about the economy driven largely by rising prices for basic commodities and shortages of various consumer goods. Then there’s COVID. President Biden ran on bringing the pandemic to heel. But that hasn’t happened. I’m not blaming Biden for that. A virus is a tough and unpredictable opponent. It’s just the fact of the situation. People want COVID to be over. But it’s not over. He’s the President. He takes a hit for that.

      Then there’s the other problem: President Biden looks weak. The pull out from Afghanistan plays some role in this. But the real driver is the months long spectacle of the President and his party unable to pass the basic legislation that makes up his agenda. Negotiating, begging, false starts, canceled votes. A President of the United States stymied by two obscure Senators the vast majority of Americans have never even heard of. Obviously this has deeply demoralized Democrats around the country – a fact which I think played a significant role in McAuliffe’s defeat. But for less committed voters – a smaller portion of the electorate but the floating segment that decides most elections – the President just looks weak.

      1. Frankly, I am ready to call their bluff.

        Put the ambitious measures with 48 secure votes to a formal vote, and make the other two clowns vote no.  Then kick them out of the party and let the GOP own the shitshow.

        I am beyond fed up with cleaning up after the GOP and yet ALSO being blamed for the mess. 

        1. That pretty much my position, MM: let’s force the recorded votes. To date in this administration we haven’t gotten a single R vote on any bill passed and signed into law (we did get a handful of R votes in the Senate infrastructure bill). Let Manchin and Senator Bananas vote no and go on their way. Let Mitch own this shit show. Let Mitch stop the confirmation of judges between now and next November.  Biden has fallen into the same trap as Obama in his first couple of years thinking he could find their better angels. Instead we’ve accommodated something quite different. 

          1. Republicans don't care about hypocrisy; they only care about power.

            If Manchin, Sinema and the Republicans vote no on the Biden social programs, then after the Republicans get elected again, they'll pick up some of the more popular Democratic proposals, like $300 child care credits, and claim that Democrats Dither while Republican Deliver.

            1. Haven’t we seen this before? Nixon gave us the EPA. Papa Bush gave us the blueprint for a widely successful cap-and-trade program (acid rain). Texas oilman Dubya gave us the federal renewable fuel standard. Dubya’s Supreme Court ruled CO2 a pollutant.  Given the hand we’re dealt (Manchin, Senator Bananas) maybe it will be a Republican that delivers the popular progressive ideals to the masses. 

              1. And, Carter deregulated Energy, Trucking, Airlines, Telecom, Railways, Finance.

                Reagan deregulated the savings and loan, but took credit for all of Carter's deregulation.

              2. This is a good point Michael. I am a Democrat because they are supposed to be the ones who support progressive policies that help our country evolve in an ever changing world and they most of the time don't do things that shit on people like the Republicans. That's pretty much it.

                I am not a Democrat just to be a Democrat, I am because I want good things for our country. If the Republican party happens to be the one to deliver those things, I don't fucking care as long as they get done !


                  1. Problem is, the substantial lift to get public attitudes moved to a point that even Republicans were willing to sign on to progressive legislation comes from Democrats being partisan and pushing the ideas.  If Republicans don't feel "concerned" at the possibility of power loss, I don't think they move on a variety of the policies mentioned above.

                    1. I don’t disagree. It takes the progressive advocacy to highlight the policies. In a more perfect world we would be content with conservative implementation of progressive policies. I’d rather we get the credit for bringing these policies to the fore of national attention  – but often the opposite has been the case. 

      2. Stupid, stupid, stupid. The Democratic Party of Virginia ran ads and paid for flyers supporting Youngkin. The point of the ads was to say that Youngkin was supported by Donald Trump.

        You NEVER use your opponents name in advertising.

        Trump may be a scary bogeyman, but Trump isn't the problem, Republican extremism is. Do you really want Republican parents telling your kids in Douglas County and Aurora what to learn?

      1. Not exactly. Manchin is a corporate whore, but he is a Democrat. He is beholden to corporate lobbyists and the coal industry. There are other corporate whores in the Democratic Party.

        However, you are correct in one respect. By blocking the Democratic agenda that Biden is pushing, he is being disloyal to the Democrats and working to advance the interests of the Republican Party. 

      2. take a look at voting records.  Manchin talks and negotiates to limit programs, but I think he's a more-than-90% Democratic voter on bills where there is a partisan split. 

    1. I think you are correct, skinny. Magats don’t care because their racial myopia makes them think it ( fentanyl) only takes out “those” people…no big deal.

      That, is, obviously”poppycock”. 🙂

    2. The Republican outrage machine is sort of like the joke about the numbered jokes.  The content doesn't really even matter anymore.

      They have got it down to shouting a single word (i.e. "emails!") and that's all it takes, everyone reacts on cue.  I mean, they are practicely ready for the old reverse-psychology trick [yes you are; not I'm not.  yes you are; no I'm not.  no you're not; yes I am.  Doh!]

      Soon there will be no more words required, they will just grunt at each other and then start screaming.

  3. I see racist sociopath Bruce Baker is back on the Westminster City Council. There were already multiple reasons for not moving to Westminster, but now there's another just in case you needed it.

  4. McAuliffe is nearly 200,000 votes ahead of Northam’s tally in 2017, despite likely D->R defections. 

    Murphy is already matching his 2017 tally–with many ballots left.

    Something to keep in mind if you’re thinking about last night in terms of “deflated Democratic base”.  

    Northam instituted some common sense gun laws and the rural Virginians never forgave him, turning out in droves yesterday in the deep red counties. 

    1. Republican electoral strategy is to boost turnout of their base using fear and lies. This works well in a low turnout election, and they are using voting restrictions to make all elections lower turnout. 

      Democratic strategy is to try to convert (or retain) suburban voters by talking policy. 

      Conversion is weaker than goosing turnout.

    2. McAuliffe also defeated two Black women and a Black male in the Democratic primary, 62% to 20%, to 12% to 3.6%.  Yet as best I read about the race from this distance, McAuliffe didn't shake up his campaign staff to bring people from those campaigns aboard, didn't substantially increase the campaign's use of Black surrogates, and was not highlighting his endorsements from many in the local Black communities. 

      he tried to attack Youngkin as a Trump-wanna be, an attack that didn't stick.  he tried to campaign to say his experience would get things done for Virginia — but I'm pretty certain that people in many parts of the state do not view 2013-2017 as a Golden Age.

      Missing on 3 key elements of political strategy is not a way to bring about a sure-fire win.

        1. McAuliffe is a little long in the tooth for me. Don’t get me wrong, I’m a fan of Hilary, but his associations go back a long way. If you haven’t yet, click into the Trae Crowder link skinny posted. Trae is right: it’s past time for some new blood. 

      1. McAuliffe: Exhibit A

        The Republican who just won in Virginia was an executive at the Carlyle Group – a private equity firm that has laid off thousands of unionized workers at the firms it acquires.

        But the Democrats couldn’t attack him on it. Because the Democratic nominee was a Carlyle investor.

        The corporate Dems who blocked the Dems from being able to run on making progress
        are now saying that a corporate Dem losing Virginia proves that voters don’t want progress.


  5. O/T.  Replacing the police department?  That was the stupidest fucking thing I’ve ever heard. 

    There’s a million ways to reform the PD if you mean it.  But saying you will replace it with a “Department of Something Else”, even with something on paper that is massively better, is the dumbest goddamned framing I have ever heard. George McFly hanging a ‘kick me’ sign on himself.

    1. Hmmm. How would the Republican Party do it?

      "Crime is out of control in our towns and our neighborhoods. Vote Republican because we are going to improve safety by putting more officers on the streets. Those evil Democrats are trying to get rid of police departments."

      Three lies in a row… They won't even do anything for the police departments, but they've already defined the terms of the debate. The Democrats will hem and haw and say we're in favor of public safety, too.

  6. The Democratic Party isn't even playing the same game, unless it's little league vs Major League BB.

    Here is a twitter exchange where Rachel Biticofer responds to someone called TheGreatRevel. This is an example of how difficult it is for Democrats to take credit for policies they actually implemented.

    Quote Tweet


    Give me one example where the converse, young people voting for something, has brought about what they want. It hasn't in their lifetime. Stop expecting things from the youth and starting delivering for them.


    Obamacare. $4,000 directly into your pocket this year. Student loan reform. Historic investments in edu & healthcare. In VA it legalized pot, enforced Obamacare, passed gun reform, ended the death penalty, & raised the minimum wage after a decade of the GOP blocking obstruction

    Watch the Republican Party take credit for legalizing pot and suck up the Zoomer vote for the next two decades.

      1. I came to understand that Democratic institutions are almost always behind Republican ones. I saw this play out, over and over. Democracies grind slowly…corporations and Republican political institutions are top down and decisions are made by fewer people, and more quickly, thereby.

        And they are liars, completely willing, to one extent or another to use ANY means to win. That is axiomatic, I think.

  7. Ah, the old days when people had longer memories.

    From 1933 to 1953, the Dems could keep getting re-elected nationally by running against Herbert Hoover.

    From 1980 to 1992, the GOP could win nationally by running against the McGovern-Mondale liberals and Jimmy Carter's malaise.

    Today, people have the attention span of a gnat. Sad….

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