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(D) Phil Weiser
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(R) Gabe Evans*
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DEMOCRATS
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March 07, 2013 05:48 AM UTC
36 Comments
Austerity diary – day 6. Tried to go squirrel hunting, but I think I got the magazine inserted backwards in my AK-47 and now it does not work. To top it off, the neighbors started shooting at me. I barely made it back inside. The drinking water in the bathtub is almost gone. I hope help comes soon…
Is ammo edible?
Now that you mention it, the gun store called the AK-47 magazine a "banana clip". Hmm.
My wife almost missed her flight yesterday due to very long lines, in the middle of the afternoon on a Wednesday – the slowest travel time of the week -, yesterday at DIA.
Just because you guys aren't feeling it, doesn't mean it's not happening.
PS, in theory I agree with your attack. For years, the school board in Jeffco threatened all of us voters with dire cuts to sports and bussing, but never carried through. Consequently, we never believed their Chicken Little story. Then our new Board got smart and did what they said they were going to do. Made sports sef-funding and cut bussing. Guess what? When they followed through with their cuts, they got both a mill levy and a bond increase in the middle of one of the worst recessions ever.
Here's hoping that Obama follows through with his threats. Otherwise, we won't listen again.
Wait, Why Can't We Eat Other People Again?
http://www.theonion.com/articles/wait-why-cant-we-eat-other-people-again,31555/
McCain and Graham on the floor sounding somewhat reasonable though McCain twice refferred to Jane Fonda as an enemy and wishing a drone could take her out. They are criticizing Paul's filibuster yesterday
Say what?
Did that really happen?
yes, it happened, he did say that
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-politics/wp/2013/03/07/mccain-and-graham-attack-rand-pauls-filibuster/
I got a different impression of what was said than you gave.
No, you are probably too young. Most Vietnam era vets and right wingers will always hate Jane Fonda for taking a "Peace" mission to Hanoi while they were holding our prisoners captive. They felt that the trip was "aiding and abetting" the enemy and the grudge is strong and permanent. As for me who lived through the Vietnam era but was a senior in high school when the 73 peace accords were signed, i thought it showed incredibly poor taste, but I don't hold a grudge 40 years later. Those were different times and anti-war people havgfe learned that the troops need to be treated with the respect that they deserve. The treatment of vets in those days is a very bad black mark on the history of that time, as if there weren't enough black marks arising from the whole war thing.
I am personally too young, but my best friend was a Viet Nam vet and he wouldn't watch any of her movies. (You might recall that she enjoyed a personal renaissance in the 80s.) I also recall seeing some small but vocal demonstraitions by vets against Fonda somewhere, also in the 80s.
But I read Gray's statement to mean that John McCain was wishing for Jane Fonda to be taken out by a drone, and that he said so on the Senate floor today. That's what my comment means.
After I learned what she actually did and said, I won't think less of any vet who still doesn't like her for that. She's apologized profusely and should be forgiven, but it was really stupid of her to do it in the first place.
Agreed, Ari. I also think that McCain's long captivity undergoing brutal torture in a prison camp more than allows him an opinion on the matter.
I served during the Nam years. I do understand how McCain and others might hate her though I think they are mistaken. I wish I WAS too young to know
I was anti-war all the way and went to college with some anti-war returned Vietnam vets. As much as I opposed the war I always thought Fonda was despicable for actively lending herself to propoganda aimed by the enemy our soldirers were assigned to fight at our own American soldiers, most of whom were drafted and had little choice about being there. I think she's damn lucky she wasn't tried for a treason, stood up against a wall and shot. Of course I realize that she is such an incredibly ditzy bubblehead she probably had no idea of the seriousness of her actions so it's also fine with me that the silly thing wasn't shot. It would kind of be like shooting a hamster for treason.
I can see it either way, although I lean toward resenting Ms. Fonda's actions.
McCain did suffer, but in truth, the old gasbag gets away with a lot of cheap shots runnin' the POW card. And that's no shot at the guys that were tortured in the Hanoi Hilton, in Laos, Cambodia, NVN and in Viet Cong held parts of the South.
That's just an "enough with your own agenda" to McCain. To his credit, though, he called that creepy pipsqueak paul out on the Senate floor today about a made up scenario in which the ayn rand accolyte actually had Americans being shot at, IN AMERICA, by drones.
But as far as the Vietnam POW experience for Americans, it was nightmarish. It was horrible. In 4 Corps, we missed a prisoner rescue by MINUTES! All kidding aside. We did everything right, but they still knew we were closing. They left. We found "tiger cages", lots of binding, The torture of the guys was brutal. Imagine a 6 foot, 175 lb man in a large dog kennel.We learned a lot in SEER, but it was even worse than that. We weren't ready for what we saw
The resentment of Ms. Fonda was at its' greatest after I came home, obviously, right after Nixon's incursion into Laos really lit up the country. We were supposedly winding down, then that.
The street reaction was both. The kids that didn't want to go, be drafted, were rooting for her. They saw what she was doing as looking out for them. cheney, limbaugh, owens, beauprez, rove, nugent, (probably agop), boyles, chambliss, charley daniels, j paul braun, lamborn, kyle, dreyer, name your redleg chickenhawk, he was rooting for what she was doing.
The guys who'd gone, myself included were more against her simply because she hadn't done a tour. We felt she was kind of a bullshitter, talking about American Foreign Policy as a naive "hippy hollywood actress" Nothing like it grew to be,
Of course there was the other players, the 4F's, 1Y's like romney (some church bullshit out) tancredo and nugent. Then there were the guys that had served in WW2, Korea, pre-Nam, and the hard hats. They were part of what was termed by Nixon as the "silent majority". They had the anti-hollywood thing going, "domestic enemies" con was big, Hating hollywood and hippies meant loving America to some. It was chaos.
The reagan people were the ones that really got the anti Fonda thing going full blast. reagan was a WW2 draft dodger, like john wayne, but he'd built a reputation as a tough guy, anti-crime, christ-ee pro nationalist conservative, and he seized on Fonda as a way of touting "love of America". He ran to the Governorship in California on that con.
It was pure bullshit.
The Vietnam draft dodgers saw reagan as one of their own, and a way out of the stigma of being cowardly draft dodgers., Here they were, pro America, after all, not craven and cowardly any more, but "real patriots. Like o'reilly.
And that was the birth of the modern republican party.
Jane Fonda never realized what a shit storm would come of her own actions.
Though I didn't go to Nam while I served and therefore didn't experience what you did I would concur with your recollection of what it was like here. I remember just thinking her a fool, her and Tom Hayden. Wouldn't even watch Barbarella again. But, I did watch the movies she made affter she resumed and, at least in my mind, Tom Hayden proved himself to be more than a fool in the next 30 years. I am proud to have been part of the antiwar movement after I was discharged though it was often tough in dealing with others to remind them that I was not interested and would not participate in any criticism of the folks with the boots in the mud, getting malaria, shot at, wounded, killed, imprisoned.
Holy shit – I just reread my post and I made a HUGE mistake.
There's a sentence that should read:
God, how did I ever screw that up?
Jane's sin was being photographed at the controls of an anti-aircraft gun in Hanoi, of the type being used to shoot at our planes. It forever left the sobriquet Hanoi Jane. As a Vietnam Era vet who never actually went to the Nam, I agree it was poor judgment on her part. But far more forgivable than, say, McNamara, admitting he knew the war could not be won while still sending thousands more to fight it. There are 58,000 names of our dead on that wall in the mall, and I still can't walk by it without choking up. But I don't blame Jane for putting the names there, only for ineptitude in trying to stop that war.
Absolutely Voyageur, concur.
Yes, well said.
At least it was a talking filibuster, which I support though I don't support using filibusters of nominees as extortion on issues other than those directly concerned with the nominee's character and qulifications. It's advise and consent, not force answers on any issue of your choosing
As per drones, I hate to agree with even parts of points made by such a loon but I too would like assurance that drones won't be used to take out citizens on our own soil without meeting a very, very high threshold of imminent danger, such as that there is incontrovertable evidence that the citizen is, say, minutes away from dirty bombing the Superbowl. In that case, naturally the government ought to be able to act first and go to court later but have the evidence to show a special court afterwards and ASAP.
In most cases, arresting the citizen in the usual way and charging, holding, trying and, if convicted, incarcerating the perp in the usual way, as we have done already with terrorists foreign and domestic serving time without incident in our prison system and right here in Colorado, ought to be the required procedure.
And the whole catheter angle is so priceless.
I'm even more of a civil libertarian than you. I don't think we should use them at all in the US ever. This is an area where the extreme right-wing like Paul and the left actuially are wholeheartedly in agreement. The un-Constitutional Patriot Act and all.
I would like to see them do something other than filibuster it. I have a very hard time believing that Paul is doing this out of genuine concern, and that it's anything other than a fully cynical ploy to score points against Obama, or at least get his bona fides with the Ron Paul camp in order.
I tend to be more aligned with your view as well. Those who defended torture because of the kind of ticking time bomb scenario I used as an example have yet to produce a real world case and I don't anticipate a real world case requiring drone intervention as in my most pressing case imagineable scenario example either. I still hate agreeing with such a loon on anything!
I just don't want them monitoring my speed while on road trips 😉 I've seen drones in the sky above our small town. Assume they are just training. I can see some uses such as monitoring speed. More useful to help monitor early wildfire or even security at places like dams and bridges that might be threatened. I find it hard, but not impossible, to foresee a reason for a drone to be used to attack anywhere in the US. I can imagine an antigovt militia engaging in a mission that I might like terminated.
Voter fraud exposed!
Yep – some senile grandmother sent in an absentee ballot and then was allowed to cast a real ballot at the voting booth, having forgotten she voted by mail. The polling station even had a record of her absentee vote, but let her vote again anyway for what reason I'm not sure… They're prosecuting her, of course.
Just saw this on Chris Mathews.
Looks like the goober pinko Congressional Rep phil gingrey has joined the race for U.S.Senate in the State of Georgia. He will challenge the Vietnam era draft dodging, archeologically challenged and evolution denying nimrod j paul braun in a red primary to replace the outgoing Vietnam draft dodging coward, saxby Chambliss.
How do these guys NOT get the message?
The Vietnam era draft dodging Gingrey's on record as defending Akin on "shutting that whole thing down". On audio, he's explaining how you can overcome "shutting it down" with "a glass of wine".
It gets worse. This schmuck is a practicing obstetrician!
Worth the watch.
Cecile Richards is all over this. All kidding aside, Georgia Senate race might not be a red lock in '14. Women make up 52% of the voters there. This shit is what costs redlegs elections. Guys like gingrey all too often define the republicans. For good reason. It's what they are.
We'll need Georgia to be in play. At least 4 Dem's are retiring, and the Senate could go either way.
Will the gun safety bills become law? Despite handily passing through the Colorado House, there is some doubt in the Senate. Who is the hold up? Democrats! In particular, my senator, Cheri Jahn – at least according to the newspaper which shall not be named. Jahn is reported to oppose 1) the limitation on the size of magazines, 2) the ban on concealed-carry on college campuses, and 3) manufacturer and seller liability for assault weapons. It doesn't report where she stands on the other bills.
So, I called her. Got her voicemail. Couldn't even leave a message because the mailbox was full. This is a hell of a way to treat your constituents and avoid their imput.
I won't be surprised if only universal background and the ban on online training for CCW are ultimately passed by both houses.
My senator, Lois Tochtrop, is only supporting a couple of the bills. I emailed every Democratic senator the last day the honkers were circling the capitol, but only got a reply from one (Linda Newell, canned reply).
OBL's son-in-law arrested in Jordan. Looks like the Turks helped make this happen. Taken to NY rather than Guantanamo. I hope this means we are going to take the legal approach of an investigation and trial. I prefer that higher road to lifetime detention with a possible miltary proceeding many years from now. Some Rs are already unhappy with the process being undertaken
FYI, his name is Sulaiman Abu Ghaith, and he was among other things the spokesman for Al Qaeda in the aftermath of 9/11. He had close ties to OBL during the 9/11 timeframe and was their spokesman for the video in which AQ claimed responsibility for the attack.
He's apparently been "missing" in Iran for a decade.
Republicans, predictably, are upset that he wasn't shipped to Gitmo so that they could continue wasting money on it for the rest of eternity. Somehow they claim that a US trial has too much risk. Tell that to the blind Sheikh.
Also, in Stateside detention we'll get a hell of a lot more information out of him. He could be a gold mine for intel. So the R's are unhappy: Fuck 'em.
Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation (RMEF) now emaiing members asking us to contact leg in opposition to gun safety bills because it will hurt their fund raising. When RMEF has banquets they are given weapons to auction off. They seem particularly torqued by Morse's bill. They already have processes to see that anyone purchasing gets a background through a cooperating FFL.
It's all about the money.
Fuck 'em. I wonder how plea would sound in Newtown?
I sure hope you're wrong.
We're this close. We have the majority. And oh how we'll hide our heads in shame if we lose nerve now.
I called Evie. Everybody needs to reassure their Senator that they're behind them.
The goonies are on phony and made up urban legend scare tactic bullshit, fueled by cynical firearms industry hacks, who are laughing at the goonies they're prodding. It's a pathetic display. Colorado's better than that.
AJB, your Newtown reference broke my heart..
I hope you're wrong.