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August 02, 2012 03:41 PM UTC

Thursday Open Thread

  • 72 Comments
  • by: Colorado Pols

“Where belief is painful we are slow to believe.”

–Ovid

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72 thoughts on “Thursday Open Thread”

      1. The latest Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey of Likely Voters shows that 51% regard Romney’s views as mainstream. Thirty-seven percent (37%) say it would be more accurate to describe the presumptive GOP nominee’s views as extreme. (To see survey question wording, click here.)

        Views of the president are more evenly divided. While 44% believe it’s accurate to describe President Obama’s views as mainstream, 47% describe his views as extreme.

        Rasmussenreports.com

        1. Maybe this explains the above data on Obama’s high levels of extremist positions. Again http://www.rassmussenreports.com

          Twenty-nine percent (29%) of Likely U.S. Voters now say the country is heading in the right direction, according to a new Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey taken the week ending Sunday, July 29.

            2. Your assumption that my name has anything to do with Friar Tuck or Robin of Loxley is also a mistake.

              Your concepts about American culture, and how yesterday is an assault on it, is also woefully misdirected, as well.

              Perhaps you would like to explain for our readers how women’s increased access to contraceptives and other health related services is an affront to American culture?

              1. I was up and out early taking my truck to a mechanic shop.

                Your concepts about American culture, and how yesterday is an assault on it, is also woefully misdirected, as well.

                Don’t you understand, Robin? It’s like Pearl Harbor, all over again. Really terrifying….you are talking about the contraception thing, si?

      2. on 1 Aug, U said that you were tracking when someone was logging in and out, and said that it showed that someone actively logged in or out.  

        I don’t think so.  

        .

        I think the list of “active users currently logged in” shows who was active in the last 15 minutes.  

        So, If I open the site, my computer logs me in automatically, using cookies or something.  

        After I haven’t done anything at the site for 15 minutes (e.g., working on a Word document, or checking email, or even walked away from the computer,) it shows I’m gone.  

        Then if I return to the site and refresh the home page, it shows I’m logged back in.  

        .

        Note: I didn’t actually test this, because I only have one login for this site, despite my lies years ago about operating a dozen sockpuppets to show how much others supported me.  

        1. for opening and viewing the site. I think you have to log in to show up as logged in and yes, that persists after you’ve logged out for 15 minutes.

          1. When come to this page and look at that link, my name doesn’t appear. When I log in and then check, there I am. When I log out and check, I’m gone.

            Not sure why it says “15 minutes,” but unless there’s something going on with your cache, that link is accurate as of the instant you click it.

              1. Sorry, I think I misread you and Barron.

                Yeah, just coming to the site won’t log you in – Pols uses soapblox, and soapblox doesn’t have a feature allowing you to log in just opening the page to the site.

                    2. Why would I?

                      Even if my computer goes to sleep for the evening or I turn it off, CPols page is reopened and I’m logged in w/o doing anything.

                      Opera.  

                    3. then that’s why you’re logged in when you come back. Soapblox doesn’t terminate inactive sessions.

                    4. So if it ever shows me as logged out, it’s just due to idleness. And when I come back it doesn’t ask me to log in.

                    5. There are a few times when I’ve forgotten to log out, and from what I could tell, it always showed me as “active.” I’ll have to experiment and check it out from other devices, like ones I never log in from (e.g., my phone).

                  3. I never take that option. I’m afraid of forgetting passwords through disuse and you can’t use the same one everywhere.  Some sites require more characters, etc.  

                    I just checked. Before I logged in I didn’t show up but you can choose to not have to log in every time.  I get a drop down with that option. I decline.  It doesn’t leave you permanently logged in.  It does mean you are automatically logged in when you go to that site.  

                    1. After posting my last comment, I closed the window but did not log out. I checked on my phone about 15 minutes later and it did not show me logged in.

                      I just came back. I opened a new window and I was already still logged in. (You only “log off” if you actually click log off.) After I refreshed the page on my phone, it showed me logged in again.

                      BlueCat, I’ve never gotten any sort of drop-down from a soapblox site, so I’m guessing the one you’re seeing is from your browser. Something like “Remember this password (Y/N)?”

                    3. ah, the only lesson is that I didn’t quite know how this worked. I thought you had to physically log off to log off. (Oh, and why it said “15 minutes” when it appeared to be a real time list. It takes 15 minutes for your closed tab or window to register.)

                      Sorry, but I’m a nerd for this feature.

                    5. that Dio’s a tease?

                      Sorry, but if you’re trying to lead me into some revelation, it’s not clicking.

                    9. and yes you have to log out to be… ummm… logged out, Barron.  I always log out of sites so that explains why I have to…you know… log in to be logged in.  Sometimes I just feel like taking a peek to see what’s new without logging in so just because you don’t see me, doesn’t mean I’m not lurking.

  2. Because the less you make, the more he thinks you should pay (3 very revealing charts in linked article)

    “It is not mathematically possible to design a revenue-neutral plan that preserves current incentives for savings and investment and that does not result in a net tax cut for high-income taxpayers and a net tax increase for lower- and/or middle-income taxpayers,” the authors of the Brookings/TPC study write in their conclusion.

  4. MITT ROMNEY’S latest controversial remark, about the role of culture in explaining why some countries are rich and powerful while others are poor and weak, has attracted much comment. I was especially interested in his remark because he misrepresented my views and, in contrasting them with another scholar’s arguments, oversimplified the issue.

    It is not true that my book “Guns, Germs and Steel,” as Mr. Romney described it in a speech in Jerusalem, “basically says the physical characteristics of the land account for the differences in the success of the people that live there. There is iron ore on the land and so forth.”

    That is so different from what my book actually says that I have to doubt whether Mr. Romney read it. My focus was mostly on biological features, like plant and animal species, and among physical characteristics, the ones I mentioned were continents’ sizes and shapes and relative isolation. I said nothing about iron ore, which is so widespread that its distribution has had little effect on the different successes of different peoples. (As I learned this week, Mr. Romney also mischaracterized my book in his memoir, “No Apology: Believe in America.”)

    That’s not the worst part. Even scholars who emphasize social rather than geographic explanations – like the Harvard economist David S. Landes, whose book “The Wealth and Poverty of Nations” was mentioned favorably by Mr. Romney – would find Mr. Romney’s statement that “culture makes all the difference” dangerously out of date.

    http://3quarksdaily.blogs.com/…

    bolds are mine…dangerously out of date! That’s who this country needs as President?

    2. would have even read the title, he might have correctly ascribed some of those mid-east differences he’s noticed to “Guns . .  .”

  5. …that supporting the birth control mandate is, more-or-less, the same as being a kamikaze pilot at pearl harbor or a terrorist on 9/11?

    Rep. Mike Kelly of Pennsylvania has the details.

    I know in your mind, you can think of the times America was attacked,” he said at a press conference on Capitol Hill. “One is Dec. 7, that’s Pearl Harbor Day. The other is Sept. 11, and that’s the day the terrorists attacked. I want you to remember Aug. 1, 2012, the attack on our religious freedom. That is a day that will live in infamy, along with those other dates.

    Of course, Jerry Nadler, the Congressman representing lower Manhattan disagrees:

    For the thousands of Americans who lost their lives on these two horrible days, to the thousands more who put on a uniform to protect this country and ensure that the lives of those lost are not forgotten, to the thousands more who mourned the loss of a loved one or bore witness to those two tragic days in American history, Mike Kelly’s comments are beyond outrageous,” Nadler said in a statement. “To drag the memories of those lost and those still grieving into the culture wars is unforgivable. And to equate those terrible attacks with the safe and legal availability of contraception for women — ostensibly to score political points — is stunning. The American people deserve an apology.

    1. .

      Attacks which we were pretty sure we could overcome.  

      Yesterday was an attack on our culture.  Our values.  

      From watching this website, the outcome is not so clear.  

      3. Or two other (official, and who knows how many other ‘unofficial’) wars.  Just like it.

        2400+ deaths at Pearl Harbor, over 3000 on 9/11.  Such rhetoric is shameless garbage.  Anyone defending it should be ashamed of themselves, IMO.  

        Does any conservanut rally think this over-the-top hyperbolic bullshit helps win elections outside of, say, Somali Springs (and like places)?  

      4. pretend is our culture?  Because the overwhelming majority of both Catholics and evangelicals use birth control, just like everybody else. This was just as true in the 70s as it is today, by the way.  Nothing new.  You know, like the way Catholics get divorced but the Church lets them pretend the marriage was never valid so they can be granted annulments.

        In both cases, birth control and divorce, the Church chooses to cover its ears and sing la la la so as not to be inconvenienced by having to lose all but a sliver of its members.

        Birth control is out our culture. Hypocrisy is apparently the culture of the religious right but that hardly seems like something sacred or in need of preservation.

      5. Those of the  catholic church hierarchy who even now are attempted to paint themselves as victims of their own abuse scandals? I reject their awful belief that women are subordinate to men and that little children who are victimized by  abusive priests and all should endure and be silent to avoid “scandal.”

        There are no “culture wars.”  Rather there is a consistent attack by the so-called right on our constitutional rights including the right to public accommodation and voting  as guaranteed by the Civil Rights Legislation of 1964 and 1965.

        Have you no decency?

  6. The Agnellis had taken over the newly restored Sistine Chapel for an evening; then dinner for 150 in the Hall of the Statues, a brilliant long room with statues in niches like front-line troops poised to defend Olympus from the Titans.

    Among the crude Titans was Henry Kissinger. In the next few days he and I attended a half-dozen functions together. I have no idea what he was doing memorializing the American Academy; but the people who give money for such causes have made something of a pet of him, rather as they had made one of Truman Capote in an earlier time. I could hear the ceaseless rumbling voice in every corner of the chapel. The German accent is more pronounced in Europe than on television at home. He has a brother who came to America when he did. Recently, the brother was asked why he had no German accent but Henry did. “Because,” said the brother, “Henry never listens.” As I left him gazing thoughtfully at at the hell section of “The Last Judgement” (as pretty and bright now as Tiepolo), I said to the lady with me, “Look he’s apartment hunting.”

    – Gore Vidal (1925 – 2012)

  7. http://www.owldolatrous.com/?p…

    1. This isn’t simply about marriage. Shocker, right? It’s extremely frustrating that same-sex marriage is the great continental divide. People are judged according to how they stand on this issue, as if no other issue matters. Did you know that a person can be for same-sex marriage and still be homophobic? Did you know that a person can be against same-sex marriage and be gay? We all get categorized very quickly based on the marriage issue and maybe that’s not fair. But here’s what you should know:

    – In 29 states in America today, my partner of 18 years, Cody, or I could be fired for being gay. Period. No questions asked. One of those states is Louisiana, our home state. We live in self-imposed exile from beloved homeland, family, and friends, in part, because of this legal restriction on our ability to live our lives together.

    – In 75 countries in the world, being gay is illegal. In many, the penalty is life in prison. These are countries we can’t openly visit. In 9 countries, being gay is punishable by death. In many others, violence against gays is tacitly accepted by the authorities. These are countries where we would be killed. Killed.

    – Two organizations that work very hard to maintain this status quo and roll back any protections that we may have are the Family Research Council and the Marriage & Family Foundation. For example, the Family Research council leadership has officially stated that same-gender-loving behavior should be criminalized in this country. They draw their pay, in part, from the donations of companies like Chick-Fil-A. Both groups have also done “missionary” work abroad that served to strengthen and promote criminalization of same-sex relations.

    – Chick-Fil-A has given roughly $5M to these organizations to support their work.

    – Chick-Fil-A’s money comes from the profits they make when you purchase their products.

    2. This isn’t about mutual tolerance because there’s nothing mutual about it. If we agree to disagree on this issue, you walk away a full member of this society and I don’t. There is no “live and let live” on this issue because Dan Cathy is spending millions to very specifically NOT let me live. I’m not trying to do that to him.

    Asking for “mutual tolerance” on this like running up to a bully beating a kid to death on the playground and scolding them both for not getting along. I’m not trying to dissolve Mr. Cathy’s marriage or make his sex illegal. I’m not trying to make him a second-class citizen, or get him killed. He’s doing that to me, folks; I’m just fighting back.

    All your life, you’re told to stand up to bullies, but when WE do it, we’re told WE are the ones being intolerant? Well, okay. Yes. I refuse to tolerate getting my ass kicked. “Guilty as charged.”

    But what are you guilty of? When you see a bully beating up a smaller kid and you don’t take a side, then you ARE taking a side. You’re siding with the bully. And when you cheer him on, you’re revealing something about your own character that really is a shame.

    There’s much more. Please read the whole thing. (H/T to Dan Savage)

    1. It’s about the whole gamut of LGBT rights, both here and worldwide. Chick Fil A is simply the focal point for reasons we should all be familiar with.

        1. I would need Dan Willis to confirm this…but Denver has a very well construction anti-discrimination ordinance.

          It means that if you operate a business in Denver, you may not discriminate against a whole group of people….including on the basis of “draft status” as well as sexual orientation.

          Not all venues have such laws.  However, the Civil Rights Legislation of 1964 prohibits discrimination on the basic of RACE, Creed, and GENDER and that is a federal law.

          It does not include sexual orientation.

  8. Most American adults spend about half their waking hours at a job. And during that time, libertarians do not give a flying fuck about your liberty. Instead, they condone the most brutal of tyrannies all in the name of a private employer’s freedom.

    Racial discrimination, verbal abuse, random drug testing, body-searches, sexual harassment, illegal termination, email monitoring, union busting, even withholding piss-breaks-ask any libertarian how they feel about workplace unfreedom and they’ll tell you: “Hey man, if you don’t like it, you have the freedom to get another job.” If folks are hiring. But with four-and-a-half applicants for every job, they’re probably not.

    Here’s another thing libertarians always forget to mention: a free-market capitalist society has never and by definition can never lead to full-employment. It has to be made to by-you guessed it-the Nanny State. Free market capitalism actually requires a huge mass of the unemployed-it’s not just a side effect.

    And make no mistake: corporate America loves a high unemployment rate.

    When most everyone has a job, workers are less likely to take shit. They do nutty things like join unions, demand better wages and refuse to work off-the-clock. They start to stand up to real power: not to the EPA, and not the King of England, but to their bosses.

    But with a real unemployment rate close to 20 percent, that ain’t happening. Well, fuck. Better sign up for that Big Government welfare state they’re always whining about. Hey, don’t worry. You could always sell a little crack and turn a few tricks. Libertarians totally support that.

    After all, that’s your freedom, dude!

    http://exiledonline.com/its-hi…

    1. Libertarianism isn’t some cutting-edge political philosophy that somehow transcends the traditional “left to right” spectrum. It’s a radical, hard-right economic doctrine promoted by wealthy people who always end up backing Republican candidates, no matter how often they talk about civil liberties, ending the wars and legalizing pot. Funny how that works.

      It’s the “third way” for a society in which turning against capitalism or even taking your foot off the pedal is not an option. Thanks to our shitty constitution and the most violent labor history in the West, we never even got a social-democratic party like the rest of the developed world.

      So what do we get? The libertarian line: “No, no: the problem isn’t that we’re too capitalist. It’s that we’re not capitalist enough!”

      Genius.

      At a time in which our society has never been more interdependent in every possible way, libertarians think they’re John fucking Wayne looking out over his ranch with an Apache scalp in his belt, or John fucking Galt doing…whatever it is he does. (Collect vintage desk toys from the Sharper Image?)

      Their whole ideology is like a big game of Dungeons & Dragons. It’s all make-believe, except for the chain-mail-they brought that from home. Elves, dwarves and fair maidens for capital. Even with the supposedly “good ones”-anti-war libertarians-we’re still talking about people who think Medicare’s going to lead to Stalinism.

      So my advice is to call them out.

      Ask them what their beef really is with the welfare state. First, they’ll talk about the deficit and say we just can’t afford entitlement programs. Well, that’s obviously a joke, so move on. Then they’ll say that it gives the government tyrannical power. Okay. Let me know when the Danes open a GuantГЎnamo Bay in Greenland.

      Here’s the real reason libertarians hate the idea. The welfare state is a check against servility towards the rich. A strong welfare state would give us the power to say Fuck You to our bosses-this is the power to say “I’m gonna work odd jobs for twenty hours a week while I work on my driftwood sculptures and play keyboards in my chillwave band. And I’ll still be able to go to the doctor and make rent.”

      Sounds like freedom to me.

      Written by Connor Kilpatrick. Mr. Kilpatrick is the managing editor of Jacobin magazine, and quite the writer imho.  

      1. ….conservatives that want to smoke dope and get laid.

        Libertarian has a nice ring to it.  Smacks of liberty and contrarianism.  Those with wealth like it because they can get wealthier.  Those without wealth like it because they can pretend to be deep economic philosophers.

      1. ….and the NRA continues to pad their Defensive Gun Use (DGU) stats based on one study done in 1993. The methodology and statics their Million-dollar spokesman rolls out are shaky at best…based on 4799 respondents, with a national stat based on a ballistic rectal extrapolation!

        http://www.gunsandcrime.org/dg…

        And the utter destruction of the stats:

        http://www.bmsg.org/pdfs/myths…

        It still amazes me that people with a firearm and a CCW think they’re a SWAT team. Especially civilians who’s closest brush with actual close-quarters combat is courtesy of an Xbox or a PS3.

    3. Little known fact:  The police officer that blew away the UT Tower gunman suffered PTSD the rest of his life, couldn’t keep a job.  Not sure, but he may have killed himself, too.

      Being a hero can have a price.  As we know from our military x 10,000.  

  10. Immigrants prove big business for prison companies

    http://www.usatoday.com/news/n…

    The cost to American taxpayers is on track to top $2 billion for this year, and the companies are expecting their biggest cut of that yet in the next few years thanks to government plans for new facilities to house the 400,000 immigrants detained annually.

    After a decade of expansion, the sprawling, private system runs detention centers everywhere from a Denver suburb to an industrial area flanking Newark’s airport, and is largely controlled by just three companies.

    We don’t dislike them brown people, we just love us some green a lot more . . .

  11. I caught most of it on Sirius, and let me tell you, he’s got da powah!  Holy mackerel, what great oration.  I wouldn’t put him in the top tier (notice I avoided Godwin’s law) but getting close. A lot of those old black preacher tricks to get your audience roped in.

    What was equally encouraging is that he didn’t pull punches; he was blunt, he anticipated Rmoney responses to accusations and laid them to rest.

    I’ve not had the “pleasure” to listen to Rmoney giving a speech, impassioned or not, so I can’t compare.  Anyone out there can do?

  12. The new Tax Policy Center study that showed middle class taxpayers paying up to $2000/family in addition taxes was of course, dismissed by Rmoney as biased.

    Seems that a few months back the same organization was “objective.”


    The only problem with that attack? During the Republican primary, the Romney campaign cited the Tax Policy Center on several occasions in order to attack Rick Santorum, Rick Perry, and Newt Gingrich. In fact, the Romney campaign once referred to the Tax Policy Center’s “objective, third party analysis.”

    http://thinkprogress.org/progr…

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