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January 09, 2011 07:08 PM UTC
60 Comments
First it was Bill Frist and his diagnosis of Terri Schiavo via video, now it’s Rand Paul and his conclusion that Jared Loughner is paranoid schizophrenic.
Actually, I can’t look at his remarks and agree that he’s an idiot from that alone*; it’s a mixture of political expediency which EVERY prominent elected official uses, and decent points like the unlicensed CWC law having nothing to do with it. (If anything, this law failed to live up to what its supporters allege, namely a large presence of armed citizens acting as a deterrent to violent crime).
Now, if it turns out that Loughner just bought his gun that morning or the day before, or that he has something in his record that would prevent him from legally buying a gun in most states, THEN we’ll know that Paul is being stupid. I know that AZ has very liberal gun laws, but I don’t know if they’re completely unregulated there.
* He’s an idiot based on most of what he said and did during his campaign.
it was a new synonym for “Freepers”
you can here if you like.
Bill Frist should still be ashamed of himself! And so should Rand Paul. These things should disqualify them from holding a license to practice medicine IMO. Diagnoses from afar indeed!
Certified by himself.
unless you ave an R after your name. And I’m surprised the Daily Blues ran this. They are just this side of the POST in tabloid right-wing “journalism”.
Orwell was such a prescient genius.
The Nazi Party has not changed their rhetoric, nor has the KKK. Why would the Tea Party? This is what they wanted. Their only disappointment is that it wasn’t Obama.
Just very sick people. very sick! Have they picked a candidate to run for her seat yet?
That’s just awful.
From TPM h/t Tammy Bruce
Of course, you could also look at what Sarah Palin said:
only dog hairs when I retrieve the map from the floor mat.
Lots of folk are going to be backtracking.
Not saying i am an expert, of course.
One question, “Why do you people think you can tell us a blatent lie and we are just going to believe it?” Oh yeah, we have been doing for years. I keep forgetting.
If she meant the little compass thingy, who the hell would put that on that kind of campaign ad? It was a list of targeted congresspersons (and nothing wrong with the word “targeted,” as it was their aim [nothing wrong with that word either] to defeat them in the elections). So why would you put little compass thingies over the congressional districts? You wouldn’t. They were crosshairs as you’d have on a rifle.
This is as good as melting snowflakes, not tears.
http://www.kgun9.com
I’ve seen several comments that the shooter was schizophrenic, all of them from the right wing. Schizophrenia is a specifc diagnosis, not a synonym for “crazy.” I haven’t heard that he was receiving or sought treatment, or that he had hallucinations or heard voices. This hasty diagnosis is making me suspicious.
1. It is wrong to bring politics into this discussion. (Any guesses as to their view if the shooter had been a left-wing Muslim?)
2. That the shooter was nuts (so political rhetoric had no impact).
It’s called playing defense.
then maybe they should have refrained from bringing politics into the discussion. Every initial right wing blog diary I’ve seen included it, largely in a defensive way. They all could have just stuck to “Congresswoman in AZ and others shot, let’s pray for everyone.” Not said a word about politics at all. But nooo, they ALL went on to decry how the left would use it.
If you want to stay out of the gutter, don’t step off the sidewalk.
Look at the diary – the left is using it. And it’s horseshit.
Because those initial diaries all tried to portray the pious side of the hard right, which they immediately invalidated by going to the politics. At the very least, separate threads addressing that should have been created; the fact that they weren’t indicates that the authors were thinking politics the whole time, which makes charges that “politics shouldn’t be brought into it” hypocritical.
You want to take the high road? Don’t be drawn off of it to the low road.
Is there a single shred of evidence that this idiot has ever seen the Palin map or is a devotee of hers?
This was specifically an observation about how politics was immediately (by both sides) injected into this before ANYONE knew anything. The right were going defensive against anticipated attacks from the left over their rhetoric.
Loughner may not have seen Palin’s map or given the tiniest crap about her, but political rhethoric, more so on the right than the left, has been full of warlike imagery and calls to action that could be construed to be violent. You and cologeek have brought up a lot of lefty examples of overheated rhetoric, but only one example (Kos on Giffords in 2008) really fit this description.
The past couple of years have not much different than 1993-95, when Oklahoma City was preceded by things like the NRA referring to cops as “jack-booted thugs.” I’ve been fearing this kind of thing would happen for a while now, and now my best hope, after the one for Gabrielle Gifford’s and the other wounded persons’ speedy and full recovery, is that EVERYBODY tones it down and remembers that there are more important things in life than politics.
YOU want them to have been motivated by your political enemies, but as far as we know, they weren’t.
So stop saying it.
It appears he was motivated by hate. Not sure why the congresswoman was targeted. She is not Black or Mexican and i don’t think she was Jewish.
The little girl could have been Mexican, not sure, she looked a little latino.
Let’s see hate of Blacks and Mexicans at a political rally, hmmmmmmmm. Where could that notion have come from?
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01…
And, let’s all try to avoid the past tense.
You don’t. The difference is I’m not blaming anyone based on politics or some sort of perpetual victimhood fallacy.
It absolutely is. She said this crime happened because Obama’s black.
Absolute nonsense.
because it appears to have been misdirected at me. I’ve read it five times now and can’t see the “it” I’m supposed to stop saying. I certainly haven’t said you say I’m saying, nor can it be reasonably inferred. So maybe you were thinking of someone else?
A response is required (I hate that I have to say this, but I’d be rich if I got a dollar for every comment I’ve made that you’ve left hanging.)
Stop saying that this killing has anything to do with rhetoric, the Tea Party, Palin, Limbaugh, or anything else, unless you can show me evidence specific to this case that proves that.
I’m sorry you have Palin Derangement Syndrome, but to implicate her in this somehow is unconscionable.
I retract squat.
I’m using the “lone nut” defense, as should you, until you hear otherwise. To infer a Republican or Tea Party hand in this is gross, and…predictable.
And I hope it’s viewed as what it was – a heated comment stated right as I first learned the news. I’m human, and I think I ought to be allowed to make a mistake every now and then.
Let’s return to the subject of rhetoric. Loughner didn’t live in a bubble. Obviously gun violence is a part of our culture and he needed no Palin ads to get the idea to go shoot ’em up.
But maybe you can explain to me why the right feels the need to use the warlike rhetoric when the left does not. And I don’t mean any old confrontational rhetoric, or saying “Pelosi is dead to me,” or talk about ass kicking. I mean the gun sights, and the Second Amendment remedies, and the showing up armed to rallies, and everything else that has been pointed out since this happened. Maybe you can tell me why that shouldn’t be toned down regardless of this tragedy.
“Rhetoric has consequences,” Gifford said in relation to her office’s vandalism after the HCR vote. Do you really disagree with that statement? If so, then you don’t really understand people.
That a majority of Americans don’t want leads to heated rhetoric. Don’t force the worst law enacted since the 60s up the peoples’ asses and expect them to not get pissed.
HCR was fraudulently passed against the will of a majority of Americans, and they’re pissed (see:November 2010). Being pissed and being a crazy little douche that shoots little girls are unrelated. Completely.
Brutal that you being ‘heated’ means you get to blame good people for the actions of a lone psychopath.
THAT is the pertinent question. Focus, please.
And will you stop saying that I’m doing that already? Fuck’s sake, don’t retractions mean a goddamn thing to you?
Not if you’re not actually retracting what you said.
Can you be specific as to warlike rhetoric from someone other that that idiot Sharon Angle? (I assume that’s the Kos quote you’re going to throw out).
How about the idiot that ran campaign ads portraying himself with Continental Soldiers and urging his comrades to “Gather your Armies”?
Want more?
Maybe everyone in the world sees it but you and the Tea Partiers.
It wasn’t canceled. They didn’t renew it in December for another year because TLC was concerned that if they renewed it in 2011 and she ran for President, they would have to give equal air time to other candidates.
What show? Her stupid outdoors in AK show that I’ve never seen?
Who cares if it’s canceled? Not me.
I’ll say it again: Palin has zero culpability in this, and just because you hate her, it doesn’t change that.
This is sickening how quickly this is being seized on for political gain. I’m really disheartened at some of what I’ve read here.
respect for your willingness (rare among those on the right) to be polite and conciliatory. While we differ fundamentally on many things, I think you are a pretty decent person.
On this issue, you are wrong.
1. You challenged Ari to provide ANOTHER example of warlike rhetoric from the right. Uninvited …I did so. You have not responded. Does that mean you are admitting you are wrong…or simply unable to come up with more clever repartee?
2. I find it almost impossible to believe that, were the victim Sarah Palin, your rage would be indescribable and you would be blaming everyone from Rahm Emmanuel to Barney Frank.
Maybe it would be good to take a day off and let the liberals on this site vent. There is a lot of pain, anguish, and anger.
Enough for everybody. Your attempt at deflecting the criticism is noble, but ineffective.
We love you, LB. But today may not be the best day for a fight. 🙂
…because it’s just going to be a pissing match. Cologeek came up with a ton of quotes that were every bit as vitriolic as anything from the right, and I found a Kos piece where he also had Giffords “targeted”.
It’s kind of a waste of time, but I really appreciate your kind words.
have time for a pissing match. I have work to do.
But I can disagree with you and love you just the same.
Via con Dios, Amigo.
Hasta Manana
Vielen Dank.
Not some guy on Pols or Kos. So what we think or say, we don’t reach millions of people.
This has nothing to do with whether we love each other or not. What this has to do with is how far apart people that do like each are! Imagine if we were not rational people.
And for the record, I think LB is one the best i have ever met. For some reason we can not get past the issues with Sarah.
Middle, i just saw the report on CNN this moring as i was heading out. I am sure they gave another reason for canxing the program.
really? based on November 2010? When fewer people voted than in November 2008? Seems like our majority was more a majority than your majority and there were MANY who didn’t vote in 2008 because the work done didn’t go FAR ENOUGH!
So you majority comment is a line of complete bull-shit. And it still doesn’t justify rhetoric about killing and violence.
why people associate a crime like this with the rhetoric? Do you truly fail to see the relationship at all? Second amendment solutions? Storm the capitol? Cross-hairs on political opponents?
The list is actually much loner than this, but you’re seriously trying to argue you can’t see any correlation at all?
that’s easy.
The opportunity to take political advantage of a horrific act. The left is hoping this will be President Obama’s Oklahoma City moment, and that they can shut up the right in order to take back the power that is (in their minds) rightfully theirs alone.
it’s absolutely because the rhetoric from the right is incendiary. When someone plays with matches around combustible materials, they can’t claim ignorance when a fire starts.
Fires like this one jp?
All the hate on this subject here on Pols has been coming from one direction. And when we few conservatives defend ourselves here you double down with it.
your own words?
Is there some law somewhere saying you can’t back off a little bit and admit that some conservatives have said things a bit more stridently than perhaps they should have?
As to the Wasila church fire, there is still no suspect – just plenty of blame from conservatives that it “must have been” a left-wing militant (probably gay). And you’ll have to point out to me where the Left was calling for burning down the Republican power structure or some such rhetoric…
1.) just set aside the speculation as to what it was or wasn’t that provided the cause(s) for Loughner’s attack
2.) drop the accusations and rhetoric (on both sides)
3.) agree that our national political conversation has gotten needlessly hostile and inflammatory and that there are absolutley no good “reasons” justifying it
and,
4.) come to understand that if we don’t immediately all change it, and demand changes of everyone on both sides, that we are ALL going to have unthinkable regrets.
Ladies and gentlemen, it’s (past) time to put away childish things.
From: Tea Party leader will not change their rhetoric (sic).
True. When you call your opponents “crazy” you’ve ruled out civil discourse. Lullz
Apparently, the person in question was the cabbie who drove Loughner to the event. Loghner apparently told the cabbie that he had no change; the two walked in to the supermarket together so the cabbie could get paid.
The cabbie has supposedly been cleared.
1. The person of interest, a cabbie, was cleared.
2. Loughner planned the assassination of Giffords ahead of time.
3. The gun was purchased Nov. 30th, legally. (same NYT article).
4. Loughner had 4 clips of 31 bullets each. He emptied the entire first clip, hitting 20 people, some with multiple shots.
5. Reports this morning tying Loughner to the anti-Semitic group American Renaissance appear to have been premature; DHS, which supposedly provided the (unofficial) information to FOX News, is denying that they have made any such link at this time.
6. Loughner has taken the 5th and is refusing to co-operate with authorities.
He passed an FBI background check according to Sportman’s Warehouse, where he purchased at least one firearm.
Of drug use. Whether it was admitted or turned up on a test is unclear.
And thank you for the kind words. This whole thing really sucks. Sorry for being so heated.
Everything I’ve read said he was rejected, but the army couldn’t tell the reason because of Privacy Act. I’m not saying that drug use wasn’t the reason, I just haven’t found it.
Just found it here: http://voices.washingtonpost.c…