Weekend Open Thread

“Leaders who are kind of insecure or egocentric, they basically sabotage themselves.”

–John C. Maxwell


89 Community Comments, Facebook Comments

  1. Diogenesdemar says:

    “People have got to know whether or not their President is a crook. Well, . . .

     . . who you gonna’ believe — me, or all those crooked liars I hired??? MagaMagaMaga!!”

  2. RepealAndReplace says:

    Drain the swamp! Drain the swamp! Drain the swamp!

  3. DavieDavie says:

    *rump's USDA. Science — it is a mysterious and scary thing.  You just can't be too careful.

    Researchers at the Department of Agriculture laughed in disbelief last summer when they received a memo about a new requirement: Their finalized, peer-reviewed scientific publications must be labeled “preliminary.”

    The July 2018 memo from Chavonda Jacobs-Young, the acting USDA chief scientist, told researchers their reports published in scientific journals must include a statement that reads: “The findings and conclusions in this preliminary publication have not been formally disseminated by the U.S. Department of Agriculture and should not be construed to represent any agency determination or policy.”

    But the wording surely was confirmed in a double-blind study by qualified *rump scientists using both a reading of chicken bones, and confirmed by the message found in the entrails of the goat sacrifice.

  4. DavidThi808DavidThi808 says:

    Two thoughts I keep coming around to on the Mueller report. The first is – nothing significantly new. There's more detail and more evidence. But it's all things we already knew. And as such, the report itself does not change if Congress should consider impeachment.

    Second is that about 35% of the voting public support Trump, knowing that he is a bigoted narcissistic grifter. It's not that they don't see what he is, they see it and support him knowingly. And as a democracy, that's their right to do so.

    • DavieDavie says:

      … and so the GOP, having debased our democracy by forfeiting all moral, ethical and intellectual standards in pursuit of raw power becomes the new, acceptable norm?

      • MADCO says:

        …same as it ever was…

      • DavidThi808DavidThi808 says:

        … and so the GOP, having debased our democracy by forfeiting all moral, ethical and intellectual standards in pursuit of raw power becomes the new, acceptable norm?

        I remember back when Clinton ran for re-election and a large number of us voted for someone who was clearly a sexual predator because the economy was good and we liked his politics.

        Trump's much much worse in so many ways. But those of us on the Democratic side have also compromised on our morals & ethics.

        • MADCO says:


          Our economy could have been this "good" anytime the Congress chose to allow a budget deficit of a $1.3 trillion.

          The economy is "good" for shareholders and the top quintile.  The rest of America needs wage increases that keep up with the cost of living.   Colorado, like many states, defunded higher ed so the aspirational need to trade their financial accomplishment and success for the chance for inter-generational development or the next generation needs to borrow (from their future) to get through college.

          Sure- it's good for rich people. It's just not good for anyone else.

          Sure- voters vote for flawed candidates all the time, though I am not so sure about the voting public being aware of Bill Clinton's sexual history until the Lewinsky story broke in 1998 – well after he was reelected.

          Likewise, Iran-Contra details didn't come out until after 84, though it didn't stop anyone for voting for Bush '88.

          But this is the point for those seeking to elect anyone but Trump in '20.  Forget flipping the South. Even Florida is out of reach. Texas? Beto could not win his home state.

          Pennsylvania, Michigan, Wisconsin or maybe Arizona.
          Why did Trump in win in PA, MI, WI? How can he be beat?

        • VoyageurVoyageur says:

          Clinton balanced the budget, promoted racial justice, kept the economy humming, upheld NATO, fostered equality for LBGT, protected the environment and opposed the designated hitter rule.

          Who cares if he cheated on his wife with consenting adults?  FDR did the same.  

        • DavieDavie says:

          No David, Bill Clinton, while perhaps known as a serial philanderer in 1996, was not "clearly a sexual predator" in his re-election run. 

          Recall, the person I did vote for in 2000 was Al Gore, who to his credit, but at the cost of his election, all but completely rejected Clinton due to his moral lapses.

          Not really sure what point you are trying to make.  There are no "pure" candidates.  The Founding Fathers built compromise into the fabric of our nation.  They understood human frailty and the allure of unchecked power and put guardrails in our constitution to protect our democracy.

          That is the issue I have with Trump and today's GOP.  Not some sideshow discussion of how Democrats are fatally compromised ethically and morally, thus giving the GOP a pass.

          • DavidThi808DavidThi808 says:

            That is the issue I have with Trump and today's GOP.  Not some sideshow discussion of how Democrats are fatally compromised ethically and morally, thus giving the GOP a pass.

            I do agree that the Republican party at present is orders of magnitude worse.

    • Diogenesdemar says:

      Right . . . 

      . . . and like that (was it Polis Recall?) woman said recently . . .

      ”The German people loved . . . (well, you know)” . . .


      Trump’s behavior, and his governance, and his lying about and flaunting the law, and his knowledged exploitation of our country to open manipulation by a foreign power, violation of campaign finance laws, emoluments, nepotism, sanctioning of graft, civil rights violations, and on and on and on . . . And, it’s not like this is a situation of, “35% of the American public wants” to see the Social Security Retirement age raised, or doesn’t want fluoridation of their municipal water supply, or wants to remove a street light???? . .

      • kwtreemamajama55 says:

        The person who commented that "Hitler was loved by his people" was Juli-Andra Fuentes, the Chair of the Official Recall Colorado Governor Jared Polis Group. She is the person whose name is on their gofundme page.

        To keep it straight, this is not the Neville Bros/ Independence Institute / Scott Gessler / Freedomfy funding scam to recall Rep. Galindo, which is also allied with Resist Polis PAC.

        Only one of these petitions will be counted by the SoS office, and to date, the two groups can't agree on which one will circulate the "official" petition to recall Polis. So both of them are circulating the petition to repeal the National Popular Vote, and some of them are also working on the effort to recall Rep. Galindo.

        I literally had to make a spreadsheet to keep these groups straight.



        • JohnInDenverJohnInDenver says:

          Your diligence is inspiring. 

          Have you checked with the Secretary of State to determine if anyone is monitoring whether groups are soliciting and accepting money for a recall WITHOUT forming the committee?  Or if there is a rule about co-mingling money when a single committee is attempting and supporting multiple recalls?

          • kwtreemamajama55 says:

            Thanks, JiD 😊 Both the Recall Polis groups have committees or PACS, and are keeping monies separate as far as I can tell from my snooping and what friends share.

            There are several things that should be of concern to the Secretary of State and/or the issue groups supporting the Democratic politicians who are being targeted for recalls:

            1. The gofundme page for the "Official Recall Polis" group has many "Anonymous" donors. They can't be anonymous when contributing to a political cause in which successor candidates may be chosen to challenge the incumbent (unlikely as that is in Polis' case).

            2. I don't know if anonymous donors are accepted for the Freedomfy scam for this ORCGJP group, for which Juli-Andra Fuentes is also the sponsor. Freedomfy contributions are not publicly available, at least not until the group files a quarterly report with the SoS.

            3. Then there's the other Freedomfy page, for the Independence Institute / Jon Caldara/ Scott Gessler/ Neville Family RMGO recall group. That group is trying to recall Rep. Rochelle Galindo. Again, don't know if donors are anonymous or not. So as Pols noted, Jon Caldara and the Independence Institute get a 6% cut of whatever monies are raised by both of these groups using freedomfy.m

            4. There is a lot of overlap of volunteers and donors between the two Recall Polis groups; my understanding is that a volunteer petition circulator / canvasser can carry whatever literature he or she chooses. 

            However, as soon as these campaigns start hiring paid circulators – and the "Recall Galindo" campaign already is (see below) – those paid circulators cannot carry any unrelated literature. So no petitions for "No Popular Vote". No soliciting names for the Recall Polis campaign if they're trying to recall Galindo. Etc. My guess is that there will be plenty of violations of this rule.

            5. Those paid circulators are also being paid per signature, which used to be a violation of petition circulator rules. Scott Gessler got this repealed in 2013.  So yes, petition circulators can be paid per signature. The post below says "$24 gets us three signatures", which translates to $8 per signature. Since there is no Recall Polis petition yet, this applies only to the Recall Galindo effort so far.

            Since the fee per signature is $8, any guess on how many fraudulent (non-resident, forged, or non-registered voter) signatures will be thrown out upon submission? devil




        • Diogenesdemar says:

          Yep.  Accuracy matters, thanks.

          (Good idea, spreadsheet . . . it’s to the point that it’s almost impossible to recall all the recallers, and what who said.)

  5. MichaelBowmanMichaelBowman says:

    Happy Easter / Ishtar / Pagan Fertility Weekend everyone!  Enjoy this, one of my favorite songs: 

    I've wept for those who suffer long 
    But how I weep for those who've gone 
    Into rooms of grief and questioned wrong 
    But keep on killing 
    It's in the soul to feel such things 
    But weak to watch without speaking 
    Oh what mercy sadness brings 
    If God be willing
    There is a train that's heading straight 
    To heaven's gate, to heaven's gate 
    And on the way, child and man
    And woman wait, watch and wait 
    For redemption day
    Fire rages in the streets 
    And swallows everything it meets 
    It's just an image often seen 
    On television 
    Come leaders, come you men of great 
    Let us hear you pontificate 
    Your many virtues laid to waste 
    And we aren't listening
    What do you have for us today 
    Throw us a bone but save the plate 
    On why we waited til so late 
    Was there no oil to excavate 
    No riches in trade for the fate 
    Of every person who died in hate 
    Throw us a bone, you men of great
    There is a train that's heading straight 
    To heaven's gate, to heaven's gate 
    And on the way, child and man 
    And woman wait, watch and wait 
    For redemption day
    It's buried in the countryside 
    It's exploding in the shells at night 
    It's everywhere a baby cries 

    • Duke CoxDuke Cox says:

      Happy Easter holiday to you, Michael. I am excited about the improving weather..and the political climate may soon be looking up.

      I can finally see the end of the Trump presidency. It looks good.

    • kwtreemamajama55 says:

      Great song, Michael. Happy Easter to you! Redemption and renewal are sprouting from the compost all over the place. “They tried to bury us. They didn’t know that we are seeds.”

  6. ohwilleke says:

    Any predictions or polling in Denver's municipal races?

    I predict that (not what I want, but what I think will happen):

    * The Mayoral race will produce a runoff election with no one capturing a majority in the first round.

    * The unopposed candidates will win.

    * The incumbents will win for City Council at large.

    * Perl will win in the first round for Clerk.

    * 300 will lose.

    * 301 will pass.

    Convince me I'm wrong.

  7. MichaelBowmanMichaelBowman says:

    This is a great read on the condition of rural America.  Contrary to popular belief that enviros and liberals are ruining our lives, things like market concentration are our real threat.  

    From The American Conservative 

    To Revive Rural America, We Must Fix Our Broken Food System

    The decline of rural communities and the consolidation of the American food system was the result of deliberate policy choices. If we acknowledge the consequences of these choices, we can understand why the grim future projected by the official at the Iowa Farm Bureau is possible—but that our fate is not yet sealed. Rural America can thrive once again, but only if we’re willing to challenge who holds power in the current system.


    • gertie97 says:

      Thanks, Michael. It's a profound article.

    • notaskinnycooknotaskinnycook says:

      I wouldn’t count their chickens if I were they, Michael. Not with Yammy-pie’s lackeys meddling where they have no business.
      Follow the story to the bottom of the page. it’s laced with ads.

      • MichaelBowmanMichaelBowman says:

        Meanwhile, the Administration is more like the Keystone Cops in rolling out hemp regulations related to the 2018 Farm Bill (which removed hemp from Schedule 1 of the Controlled Substances Act and reclassifies it as an agricultural crop).  We have producers in CO who are being told by USDA-NRCS that planting hemp on their land puts them in violation of their conservations contracts because it's still 'illegal' (it's not); our junior senator's office has put out a communication stating the same.  DEA has stopped issuing seed import permits because it deems the plant 'descheduled' and says it's USDA's problem now.  USDA doesn't have a permit program in place so AMS issued guidance on Friday to Canadian authorities (it's yet to be known whether they'll consider the guidance).  Secretary Purdue testified before Congress two weeks ago that growing hemp in 2019 is legal (a true statement; the 2014 law was extended through 2019 while USDA promulgated 2018 rules).  Mitch stated last week at a meeting with Kentucky producers he'd run a 'clean-up' bill, but for those CO producers I mentioned above, it will be too late for this season.  

        Yes.  Let's spend our time on those cherry pies!!

        • JohnInDenverJohnInDenver says:

          The Sad!-ministration's capabilities are, as a general rule, consistently dubious.

          Things they badly want to do are done badly,

          Things they do not want to do are done badly.

          Things they have no certain position on are done badly.

          At one point, I thought incompetence may be helpful in limiting the evil which could be done.  Now, I'm beginning to wonder if fueling the general and ongoing conservative meme that "government can't do anything right" is actually going to do more harm than the specific plans of the Trumpists.

    • VoyageurVoyageur says:

      Mike, I've watched this rural decline for 60 years.  Short of electing Huey Long president, I don't think the process can be altered.  Ideally, we stop subsidizing crops and help people: rural broadband, etc.    There are just not enough farmers left to matter politically and most of them sing sieg heil to con man trump.


      • DavidThi808DavidThi808 says:

        Why is this a bad thing? Farms like factories continue to become more and more automated. Jobs that require hard physical labor at low pay are disappearing. And people can buy food for less money.

        And so the response that goes with the flow, as opposed to fighting progress, then try to bring new types of jobs to rural areas. That's worth the effort, but all it can do is reduce the decrease because the opportunities & lifestyle in larger cities is more appealing to most.

        • kwtreemamajama55 says:

          It's a "bad thing" because of the loss of small-town culture. I'm about to move out of the little town I've lived in for the last three years, and I'll miss:

          Going to the grocery store and seeing six of the families of former or current students

          Never worrying if I happen to leave my wallet in my car overnight, or my door unlocked

          Taking 5 minutes to commute from work to home, or walking it in 15

          Hearing a 6th grade girl expound on the different genetic strains of the goats she's raising

          Parades for any or no reason in which the whole town comes out to watch or participate

          Eating a hamburger that was alive yesterday

          Being part of a community in which people really do try to help each other to survive – pancake breakfasts, oyster fries, corn harvests, spaghetti dinners for people stricken with cancer, or food banks

          As much as it's a beet-red, parochial, suspicious Fox-News-immersed town, people are still connected to the internet and pop culture – so you'll have the corn farming tractor driving kid who knows (and will rap) all the words to Kanye's latest. And people who hate paying taxes for "welfare cheats" – but will pony up to help build a new school or volunteer firehouse.

          You wouldn't celebrate the loss of a Yiddish or Italian or Somali community in a city. We should value small town rural culture as much.


          • MADCO says:

            No, we shouldn't.
            Just because you and the baker's daughter and millions of other off spring and residents have memories they'll miss, why should anyone anywhere else think it's a bad thing?

            California has 45 million residents. 58 counties. 40 state senators
            Colorado has less than 10 million residents. Maybe less than 5 million full time residents. 64 counties. 35 state senators.

            The rural voters of Colorado are over represented and over funded from the state and even the federal government. The metroplexum subsidizes the joy of the rural small town culture you idealize.

            Don't even get me started on how Colorado funds public education. Or roads.

            I've lived in small town America – and it was lovely in all the ways you describe and a hundred others. But the towns I was in acknowledged that they were subsidized by the presence of a well funded US military installation or the Alaska Permanent Fund.
            For the small towns who fold up shop and fold into the nearest metroplex, welcome to it.  Nothing lost that needs retrieving – move on.

            • kwtreemamajama55 says:

              The rural voters of Colorado are over represented and over funded from the state and even the federal government. The metroplexum subsidizes the joy of the rural small town culture you idealize.

              See, you can be articulate when you wanna be. I agree that rural Colorado is overpowered politically relative to its population, and yes, the roads and other services are subsidized by urban taxpayers.

              I don't "idealize" small town culture – half my neighbors voted for Ken Buck, Jerry Sonnenberg, and Donald Trump, and are busily plotting pointless recalls even as we type. But I do like to keep the big picture in mind, always.

              I think that people can create communities wherever they are, and usually do. They can be polarized, homogenous, paranoid communities, or inclusive, reality-based, sustainable communities. We have to be clear about what we value.

              • JohnInDenverJohnInDenver says:

                I've lived in mid-sized cities (growing up in 200,000-250,000 Albuquerque), several large metros, and one very small city (6,000).  I've visited and stayed summers in smaller (2,500), and have been on farms and ranches 30 miles from a "city" with a population of about 1,000. Communities happen in all. A major difference is in how MANY communities overlap and how they overlap.

                In the "community" of the entire United States, ag generally is a shrinking portion of the economy. And there are some forms of "subsidy" which do make their way out to the hinterlands.  It is worth mentioning that agricultural lands are also subsidizing the rest of us.  If I remember my school budgeting lessons, we were told to expect food to be about 15-20% of a budget.   Now, food is about 8-10% of a budget.

                • MADCO says:

                  That math won't stand up

                  Nothing in a consumer consumption driven eceonomy stays the same percentage.
                  Food dropping as a % of household budget does not mean that food producers are paid less. Ag wages have gone up in the most recent 100 years in 'merica.

          • Curmudgeon says:

            You wouldn't celebrate the loss of a Yiddish or Italian or Somali community in a city. We should value small town rural culture as much.

            Yiddish is a language.  There are communities that speak it, but it's not a culture in and of itself.  Anyways-

            Those communities you brought up have integrated into a larger whole, even when keeping socially to themselves.  They're not as into imposing their will on others.  And I've not seen many of them claiming to be "Real Americans" as opposed to your sainted small-town folks. 

            I'll value small-town (let's face it, you're talking about white people) culture when its people show the same willingness to adapt and assimilate, even just a little, that the other examples have.   


            • kwtreemamajama55 says:

              OK, Yiddish is a language. Call the communities "Orthodox Jewish" communities and quit nitpicking.

              Small town America is integrated into a larger whole – interdependence is a fact of life. And nobody's "sainted", nor am I claiming that they are. And in fact, few rural communities are all white. My community here is about 40% Latino. Spanish speakers came here to work the sugar beet fields, stayed for the meat and dairy industries, are as much a part of the ranching and farming community as anywhere else.

              Fort Morgan has the greatest racial and ethnic diversity of any town in Colorado, due mostly to refugee populations working in the meat, sugar, and dairy industries. My "ESL for Adults" class at Cargill had at least a dozen different home languages spoken.

              The split in values, as I see it, is generational. The culture war is generational. Older folks feel that "their values" (homophobia, women knowing their place, Christian Dominionism) are slipping away. And they are.

              Younger folks routinely have gay friends, even if they themselves are evangelists. All sports teams are integrated. Girls are expected to be equally leading the robotics team and the FBLA clubs.  The whacko right wing conspiracy circles are as likely to be led by people with Spanish last names as by anyone else. The trends toward greater inclusivity are  underground for the most part, but still there. It's no longer "cool" to be an out racist, even though the KKK used to meet at the Legion Hall.

              And yet….here I am, enjoying a 4 day Easter holiday from school, when we didn't even bother to acknowledge Martin Luther King Day or Cesar Chavez' birthday. I did, in my classes, but there was no school or district wide celebration. It's true that legislators from rural districts tend to try to impose their Christian values on the rest of Colorado, but as you may have noticed, they were whomped in the last election.

              I guess I'm saying that change is happening, but slowly, and stereotypes on either side have limited application and less utility.

              The adaptation and assimilation you say you want to see is happening, slowly, and against the will of the older population.

              A lot of the change, frankly, is due to people in my line of work – teachers and college professors at rural schools who demand critical thinking and challenge old stereotypes. Most of the rest is due to popular culture (TV, internet, radio) and market forces – having to work or get educated in larger, more diverse communities.

              And, to the point of Michael’s original article posted above, the real existential survival of rural communities depends on structural change – laws that empower smaller local businesses and farmers, that don’t encourage more and more centralization of capital and wealth in fewer hands, that emphasize quality over quantity. That’s going to sound like communism or socialism to some, but only if we allow them to control the narrative.

              We need renewable energy jobs and hemp industries. We need little organic farms and agricultural co-ops. We need a government that regulates for optimum public health while still allowing reasonable profit. We need water policies that preserve potable water and don’t allow fracking to ruin it forever. We need rural post offices that function as banks, to delete the influence of the payday lenders.

              • Curmudgeon says:

                 My community here is about 40% Latino. 

                You mean Hispanic, not Latino.  You do know the terms are not interchangeable, right?  I know, nitpicking.  Oh, wait..no, it's not. It's a way to avoid saying Fort Morgan County is about 92% white. 

                Fort Morgan has the greatest racial and ethnic diversity of any town in Colorado, due mostly to refugee populations working in the meat, sugar, and dairy industries.

                How many of those industries are owned or run by those refugees?  

                The adaptation and assimilation you say you want to see is happening, slowly, and against the will of the older population.

                That's neither adaptation nor assimilation.  That's change simply by virtue of people dying off. 

                A lot of the change, frankly, is due to people in my line of work – teachers and college professors at rural schools who demand critical thinking and challenge old stereotypes. Most of the rest is due to popular culture (TV, internet, radio) and market forces – having to work or get educated in larger, more diverse communities.  

                I figured we'd get around to making this about you eventually, but to the original point… how many of those educated kids stick around?  

                • kwtreemamajama55 says:

                  1. I actually do mean Latino. Hispanic is used mainly by the older generation, who identify with Castillian Spain. Older folks will say about themselves, "I'm Spanish". 

                  2. There is no "Fort Morgan County". There is the city of Fort Morgan (70% white, 40% "hispanic or latino" yes, the terms are often used interchangeably) and then there is Morgan County 92% white, 38% hispanic or latino – yes people do identify as both – there has been a lot of intermarriage in the last 100 years)

                  3. Probably none of those industries are run or owned by refugees. I'm not apologizing or denying that there is structural racism in play in Fort Morgan and Morgan County- I'm saying that, by population, Ft Mo is a fairly diverse city. Quit trying to box me into some little defending – white-racism box here.  I think I know a bit more about the ground truth of living here than you do.

                  4. Making this about me? No. But yes, I and others like me are part of the solution, which is slow and under the radar for the most part. Both as a teacher and as a Democratic / progressive activist, I am part of a group of people changing the culture here. It would be stupid to deny it.

                  5. Who crapped in your cornflakes today? Easter bunny put bad chocolate in your basket or what?

                  6. You don't like my point about small town culture being worth preserving, fine. Don't help preserve it. Do what you do in the big cities, but keep the big picture in mind. We really are all interdependent.

                  • Curmudgeon says:

                    Federal policy defines “Hispanic” not as a race, but as an ethnicity. And it prescribes that Hispanics can in fact be of any race.  So, your using a info from a website that conflates the two doesn't make it right. I know, nitpicking.  But it's fact. 

                     I'm not apologizing or denying that there is structural racism in play in Fort Morgan and Morgan County- I'm saying that, by population, Ft Mo is a fairly diverse city.

                    I guess that's the point, isn't it? As long as you're okay with it, there's no problem.  It's probably not a problem for you personally, so..y'know. 

                    Penning treacly missives about the pleasures of small-town living, while whitewashing (yes, I said white…deal with it) the hard truths about them isn't about your knowledge of living there. It shows what you are and aren't comfortable facing.  Your much-adored small town culture is part of what brought us Donald Trump.  It doesn't need to be preserved. It'll last all on its own. But it shouldn't. 

                    I'm not against small towns.  I'm against small town culture.  The ideas that willful ignorance, crony politics that make Chicago look honest in comparison, racism, misogny and bigotry are all just fine when blamed on "tradition". .. I have no use for.   

                     I and others like me are part of the solution, which is slow and under the radar for the most part.   

                    There's a magnificent irony in that statement.

                    When it comes to bunnies…I had a fine Ostara, actually, but that was more than a few days back. 

                    You have every right to love what you love, and to treat your small town like it's a beloved Andy Griffith Show rerun.  People can choose to move forward or not. Even with occasional periods of retrograde motion, the country will move forward without their assent. 

                    • kwtreemamajama55 says:

                      Well, lucky you. You've made it onto my "ignore the commenter because it's just going to deteriorate into name calling and personal attacks" list. Congratulations, I hope you like the company there.

                    • MichaelBowmanMichaelBowman says:

                      Curmy – I think we all feel each other's challenges/pain with the culture of many-a-small town.  For the record I want to say that I really appreciate so much of what MamaJ does – not only her fact-finding abilities here – but what she does locally for advocacy.  It's an uphill battle and some of us choose to advocate and/or be vocal; others want the ignorance in a rear-view mirror.  If my roots weren't so deep there I may be closer to you on the scale, but they're not.   

                      As I'm typing this a friend sent one of the best articles on Christianity I've read in a long time – and took me to the pew at St Andrews Catholic Church, where I've sat many a time screaming internally.  I leave the lectures for the vestibule after Mass and anyone there will affirm I'm rarely silent about my opinions.  I swear to God(dess) – if I spot a recall petitioner within a block of this house of worship I'll grab a bullwhip. 

                      This is worth the read: 

                      My Emancipation From American Christianity

                      Most of all though, I’ve outgrown something that simply no longer feels like love, something I no longer see much of Jesus in.

                      If religion it is to be worth holding on to, it should be the place where the marginalized feel the most visible, where the hurting receive the most tender care, where the outsiders find the safest refuge.

                      It should be the place where diversity is fiercely pursued and equality loudly championed; where all of humanity finds a permanent home and where justice runs the show.

                      That is not what this thing is. This is FoxNews and red cup protests and persecution complexes. It’s opulent, big box megachurches and coddled, untouchable celebrity pastors. It’s pop culture boycotts and manufactured outrage. It’s just wars and justified shootings. It’s all manner of bullying and intolerance in the name of Jesus.

                    • Curmudgeon says:

                      What name did I call you, and what attack did I make?  

                      I'm not appealing the sentence, mind you.  I think it's probably a pretty laid-back group you've put me in.


                      "Mere Mortals Who've Failed to Genuflect Before MJ55's Self-Anointed Status as Goddess of All Things Progressive"  is a bit wordy for a t-shirt.

                    • VoyageurVoyageur says:

                      Mrs. Mudgeon!  Mrs. Mudgeon!

                      Curmy is being an ignorant asshole again.  Time to cut another switch and beat him like you did the time he fed your dildo to the dog.

                      He behaved himself for almost two weeks after that!

                    • Curmudgeon says:

                      Yes, yes, you're such a bad boy, V.    So very naughty and unconstrained.  Just think of how much happier you could have been if you hadn't waited until now to stop being so comically repressed.  

                    • VoyageurVoyageur says:

                      So that's the best you got, Curmy?  Did you just realize that your meanness and stupidity just alienated the last friend you had on this blog — MJ?

                      Apologize to her while there is still time.  (I'm only saying that to ensure that you won't.  Tee hee.  Just keep digging.)

                    • Curmudgeon says:

                      I don't rely on blogs for "friendship"with anonymous strangers. I'm aligned with Groucho Marx as regards clubs and memberships; pretty comfortable in my own life, so I'm not interested in any random yahoo's personal opinion of me.  Least of all, someone who's spent their life sitting on their ass typing and is now trying desperately to have some relevance by alternately trolling for negative attention and bleating for sympathy.  I'm in my life, warts and all, but I'd rather that than spend it outside, creepily looking in on and pestering others.

                      Tee. Hee. 

                  • VoyageurVoyageur says:

                    Oh, Curmy, the only Marx Brother you ever liked was Karl.

                    Tee hee.

                    • Curmudgeon says:

                      That was some seriously weak stuff, Voyeur. 

                      You might want to switch to one of your more aggressive sockpuppets.  

                    • kwtreemamajama55 says:

                      Speaking of apologies owed but (probably) never forthcoming, there is this: Accusation of racism and doing a "blackface act" over something stupid davebarnes wrote.

                      I wish you guys would get a room, or a separate thread, or something. Apparently, you're both enjoying this mudfest, (and I appreciate not being the target for once),  but for the rest of us, it's embarrassing.  I don't want newbies to log onto Pols and figure it's a flame forum.

                      Whatever I wrote that may have contributed to the flamefest, I apologize for. Put it down to my spending too much time commenting when I should be writing diaries. My comments are pretty much diaries, anyway.

                    • Curmudgeon says:

                      I thought I was being ignored, here? Wasn't that the proclamation from on high, just yesterday?  When did that change?  

                      This like a teenager calling someone to tell them they're giving them the silent treatment.  I'm sure that if I break the rules somehow, I will be notified by someone with actual authority. 

                      Until then, I'll have to live with your disapproval.    

                    • VoyageurVoyageur says:

                      MJ thought it was hilarious when Dave Barnes called our African American mayor "Hand on cock.". I asked him to remove it because he ( Dave) is better than that.  Yes, I think the ancient racist trope about the uncontrollable sexuality of African American men is well beneath Dave, or any civilized person.   And, normally, he is better than that. 

                      So, yes, MJ, you do owe an apology for snickering at racism in your best "boys will be boys" manner.  However, I'm not holding my breath.

            • DaftPunkDaftPunk says:

              I think it's fair to say "Yiddish culture."  Growing up and grumbling about being forced to take Jewish education at The Workman's Circle (No BMitzvah for this atheist from an early age,) my Dad responded to my 13 year old complaints about the value of learning Yiddish.  It seems that being dragged through the marketplaces of the world with my antique dealer grandmother taught him that whether in Germany, Spain, Italy, or Morocco, the universal language of the market was Yiddish. Some might have been Sephardic, others Ashkenazi, but the language was what bonded them together. 

        • VoyageurVoyageur says:

          Well, David, Jefferson's yeomanry is replaced by Marx's lumpenproletariat and it turns out urban slums and the dole are not as appealing as Oliver Twist made them look.  The result is social dynamite and breeding grounds for fascism.

        • MichaelBowmanMichaelBowman says:

          DavidT – no, technology isn't bad.  In fact it's creating an entirely new dynamic in agriculture that Big Ag isn't really ready for.  In this article Big, Small or Bust: The Hollowing Out of Mid-Sized U.S. Farms we are witnessing, much like our middle class in urban areas, the death of mid-sized farms. We're seeing the emergence of a two-tiered ag community: Large, elite producers (we have 750 farms in the US that average over 18,000 acres, predominantly corn/soybeans) and small, elite producers using tech, vertical farming, etc. It's the smaller producers that are taking the industry by surprise: buoyed by an elite consumer, armed with smart phones, QR's and apps, they are reshaping the demand curve for food.  RaboBank just wrote a major paper on this phenomenon, one which Big Ag didn't think they'd have to deal with until 2040.

          The question is how are our rural areas going to adapt to this changing landscape? If you look at the conditions over the Ogallala, mass aquaponics where we withdraw fossil water from this precious, finite resource with coal-fired power from Wyoming to grow crops that must be subsidized by the Feds so we can have dollar-burgers at fast-food joints – and then characterize that system as cheap.  Ditto for dairy producers across the Midwest.  We've chosen (Congress) to let that system die a painful death while propping up mega-dairies who rely on immigrant help who often strain local resources (education, social, etc.). So we just swap one subsidy for another, with the end result being the loss of our rural landscape.  

          IMHO, none of this is going to change soon, if ever, as long as we keep sending ideological nitwits to Denver and DC.  

          What can have the most dramatic effect on this is leadership at a local and state level.  Small communities are going to have to face the adapt or die hill; our new CO Ag Commissioner has a great focus on small farms and new crops.  We can do things at a state level that a Congress-held-hostage can't. 

          I'm often the worst critic of my own people; five generations before me settled southwest of Holyoke and I have grandkids on the ground, generation 7. There is still something well-worth saving. We are drowning in resources and opportunities in these small towns, yet most can't see the forest through the trees.  As MADCO said somewhere else in this thread, they're too busy trying to get to their second-job in a right-to-work state (for less) to have any bandwidth to participate in democracy.   


    • MADCO says:

      market concentration is the real threat
      Same as always.

      Concentration of wealth seems good for the rich, and for awhile it is.
      But in a generation or two, the concentration leads to all kinds of negative impact. (Gini, Piketty, Euler, Pareto)

      Big pharma* runs the world. In a free market, for profit healthcare, if you don't want to pay $$$$ for aspirin – don't buy it.
      Insulin, cancer treatments, autism treatment, anti-aging, memory enhancement, and on and on and on.

      Imagine the board meeting in some pharma opportunity- hey, we could  cure disease X, but… that's a one time opportunity for a few hundred million people who can pay. If we can instead change the color of the pill, and add an ingredient- we can keep our patent alive for another 20 years on the treatment.

      As soon as they find the right combination of consumable soma, that's what we'll get.
      If the banks have their way, it will require debt financing and the loans will close at birth.

      Yes- I know it used to be big oil. Or the banks. Or Gm. Trilateralists, CFR, Bilderburgers, the Crown, etc.

      And big AG works exactly the same way.
      I walk into King Soopers/WalMart/Safeway/WholeFoods/TJ's/wherever to buy food, I don't want to pay more just because a product was lovingly handmade by some aspiring journalists' mom. I want to pay less.

      And if that means the multinational shareholders make their dividend this year- who cares? I ain't got time to figure that out- I got to get to the second job where we can't organize because I live in a right to work for less state and when the tax credit expires, my job is leaving anyway.

  8. VoyageurVoyageur says:

    TOWN CRIER REPORT: 4 a.m. and Trump still stinks!

  9. Duke CoxDuke Cox says:

    What are you doing up at this hr. V.?

    • VoyageurVoyageur says:

      I wake up a couple of times a night to celebrate the joys of an enlarged prostate, Duke.  Usually just pee and go back to sleep.  But sometimes, the magic just doesn't happen.  Other times, my diabetes may cause a blood sugar crash.   Then, it takes a half hour or so to restore normal glucose and get back to sleep.

      Why are you up so late?  The Oily Boyz howling outside your window?  (There is a full moon.)

      • Duke CoxDuke Cox says:

        Oh, my Cat was sick and I was up nursing her.

        We have managed to keep the Oily Boyz at bay, mostly. But not the coyotes. They were going for it, down by the river and in the draw to the east of us. What an incredible symphony!🎶

        There is considerable activity in the gas patch just a little upvalley from us, but not within earshot. Lots of guys in big ass trucks (water trucks mostly, driving way too fast.)

        I am always an early riser and used to routinely beat parsingreality to the first post, until he moved to Sarasota.😎🌴🏖


        • notaskinnycooknotaskinnycook says:

          Best wishes to your kitty, Duke. We have two aging cats so I know that drill. I hope you don't have to try to feed it pills. Cats are smarter than dogs. You can't just tuck the pill into a chunk of sausage and expect Puss to swallow it whole. She'll eat around the pill and spit it right back at you.

          • kwtreemamajama55 says:

            I think Cat is Duke's human partner, cook? He's just punnin' around.

            • notaskinnycooknotaskinnycook says:

              Then he got what was comin' to him. If you were referring to a person, Duke, at least you won't have to pill her  laugh

              • Duke CoxDuke Cox says:

                I am sorry to have been cryptic about it, skinny, but mama is right. Leave it to you to care about the critters..☺💖

                My lady prefers to remain anonymous, and rather than continually refer to her in other terms, I just shortened her name and took to calling her my cat. (capitalized for clarity, now). She is so smart and I can't imagine not giving her credit when she says something brilliant.

                I am well familiar with "pilling a cat"…( Cassandra was a little tabby who taught me a thing or two about humility) no thank you, please…unless I can't talk someone else into doing it.😋

                Mark Twain said, " A man who picks up a cat by the tail, will learn something he can learn in no other way." 



  10. RepealAndReplace says:

    It's not Colorado but only one state away….


    Further evidence on why we need the Red Flag law.

    • MADCO says:

      It happens all the time.
      If the guy with the gun turned it on the employer upstream- it would work too.

      No one in the meat packing plants of Colorado wants to hear about that. For that matter, neither does Representative Buck or Senator Gardner.
      Nor do the resort owners, farmers, dry wall contractors, concrete companies, o&g field workers, and others who want lower wage workers and downward pressure on wages in general.

      Hey- ad hominem non sequiter of the day (an Easter egg for those who are looking)
      You know why there is no Major League Baseball team in Mexico City – the biggest untapped baseball market without a team? (Yes- bigger than Miami and San Diego added together)
      Because in the anti-trust exemption world of pro sports, and baseball in particular, MLB gets to award tv rights however they want and they gave the tv rights of the DF market to the New York Yankees. Carlos Slim owns sports teams, venues and casinos with sportsbooks, but soccer, bull fighting, boxing and fighting. No MLB


      • kwtreemamajama55 says:

        Wait, what?

        What "happens all the time", Madco? Market concentration?  Is your argument to accept Big Ag, Big Pharma, Right to Work for Less, etc, because it's too much trouble to do anything else?

        Me, I'll keep putting my money where my mouth is – buying local, organic when I can….Even in Morgan County, there are two Bountiful Basket co-ops.  Avoiding big pharma as much as possible. Brandless and Thrive delivery are good options for those of us living in the sticks.

        Why should we care more about major league baseball in Mexico City? Sorry, but I don't. Happy Easter or whatever holiday you celebrate.

    • JohnInDenverJohnInDenver says:

      Red flag law really wouldn't apply — this "leader" was charged (initially) with "firearms possession by a felon."  In other words, someone who (nearly) everyone thinks ought not to have access to guns managed to get one (or more).

    • MichaelBowmanMichaelBowman says:

      The real Davos doesn't have the Alps as a backdrop…

      Maybe we could talk our Gov into a Davos on the Divide? Merging our educational assets such as CSU, our tech community, public-private capital and vast natural resources to chart a new course for Colorado agriculture? 

      The Global Food System is Being Disrupted. Producers are pushing for more efficiency. Consumer demands are changing. Costs are climbing. And today’s legacy ag companies aren’t prepared to meet these challenges on their own.

      But there is opportunity in this shakeup. Just as the breakup of AT&T in the 1980s created a new world of innovative companies like Apple, Microsoft, Cisco, Intel and more, so too is today’s changing Food and Agriculture market opening the door to smart entrepreneurs, investors and visionaries.

      Davos on the Delta is where those in the middle of this massive change meet to share challenges, debate strategies and discuss solutions. It’s where the 300 leaders closest to this massive shift in the food system come together. It’s bigger than telecom, bigger than dot-com, and it’s happening now.

  11. MADCO says:

    Two thoughts as the storm rolls over me

    1. https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2019/01/31/an-angry-historian-ripped-ultra-rich-over-tax-avoidance-davos-then-one-was-given-mic/?utm_term=.030685a50639

    2. https://youtu.be/qGaoXAwl9kw


    The historian (and many others too) forgets that Davos isn't about doing. It's about talking about doing and networking.
    In the end, what the rich Davos attendees work at doing is what the rich do – get and stay richer. I mean Paris Hilton was born rich as the great grandchild of a talented entrepreneur and uber rich should be- but what about her great grandchildren? huh?

    • DaftPunkDaftPunk says:

      FWIW, Paris Hilton was born rich, and has inherited some money, but what she has made from that, she has made herself.  She's not as dumb as she plays, and while I'm not buying what she's selling, I have to respect the skill with which she sells it.  Whether she'd have been so successful not having been born rich, blonde,  and conventionally pretty, who knows?

      • MADCO says:

        True dat.

        But I have a pretty good business model radar and if started from the middle – no way. If she started from projects and stamps, maybe.

        But the only reason she got noticed was because she was rich. She built that attention into a viable business model (no pun required). The question remains – aren't her great grand children at risk of having to work to get going? Is that really the kind of world we want for our rich and mega rich?


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