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How Is This Not MUCH Worse Than What Blogs Are Doing?

by: Colorado Pols

Tue Aug 17, 2010 at 14:44:45 PM MDT

We debated about whether we should even bring this subject up again, but we think the questions that came to mind when we first saw this story yesterday in The Denver Post worth the discussion.

Colorado Pols :: How Is This Not MUCH Worse Than What Blogs Are Doing?

As many of you know, Colorado Pols was issued a "cease & desist" order by the Post and more than a dozen other local newspapers based on their claim that we were excerpting too much of their copy and thus depriving them of revenue somehow. We responded by pointing out that we didn't need anyone else's reporting in order to thrive as a blog, but we also made the point of, er, pointing out that we have always gone out of our way to not only provide a link for a particular reference, but also the name of the publication and the reporter who wrote it. We didn't have to do any of these things -- we could have just summarized the story in our own way, which is what many outlets (like the AP) do on a regular basis. But we've always believed that providing an excerpt, along with a link and a name, is really the most proper way to handle this so that the original reporter gets the full credit he or she deserves.

Yesterday we linked to Jody Strogoff's story in The Colorado Statesman about how some major Republican business leaders were supporting Democrat John Hickenlooper for Governor. The Statesman story was dated Aug. 13, so we were a few days behind in catching it and mentioning it here on Colorado Pols.

At about 7:00 p.m. last night, The Denver Post put up a story (which we won't excerpt, since we are legally barred from doing so) with the exact same information that was reported by Strogoff. We're absolutely not suggesting any sort of plagiarism -- nothing of the sort -- but we found it odd that there was no mention whatsoever that The Statesman had first reported this several days earlier.

The Post story is written as though their reporter was the first person to find out about this. Maybe that's true -- maybe the Post reporter had no idea that the Statesman had already written about this and that Colorado Pols had already mentioned that the Statesman had already written about it. But we doubt it; more than likely, this is just the same time-honored practice of news organizations reporting what other news organizations report, only by re-writing it differently and adding a few new pieces themselves.

We think it's better to do what many blogs have done for years -- to provide an excerpt with a link and the name of the publication for full credit -- rather than to not provide any excerpt, or any sort of hat-tip, and to just report the story as though it were completely your own.

This was one of the things that really stuck in our craw when we received that fun "cease and desist" letter. Newspapers and other news outlets regularly cannibalize the work of others, and apparently that's okay. But if a blog actually gives full credit to a news outlet and doesn't just re-phrase the copy, then somehow a major sin has been committed.

Frankly, the entire newspaper industry might have a better chance of surviving if they would just start treating their fellow newspapers with some respect.

Tags: denver post, colorado statesman, (All Tags)

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How Is This Not MUCH Worse Than What Blogs Are Doing? | 35 comments

It all depends whose ox is gored.

by: Voyageur @ Tue Aug 17, 2010 at 20:56:56 PM UTC

by: you @ soon

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Well The Denver Post will be goring Maes and Tancredo for the next 2 months

So I'd suggest that CPs re examine their anti DP stance less so much material go to waste.

You'll be denying blogs the easy chance to link to DP 'stories' that they can easily reprint and take home to the neighboors or cut into an email blast.

by: Libertad @ Tue Aug 17, 2010 at 21:02:34 PM UTC

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This could get real gory

without too much glory for Republicans.

by: Gilpin Guy @ Tue Aug 17, 2010 at 21:20:54 PM UTC

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by: you @ soon

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Free our link rights, free our link rights

by: Libertad @ Tue Aug 17, 2010 at 21:23:09 PM UTC

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by: you @ soon

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Where's the story

The elite business crowd has been casting about for Hickenlooper from day 1.

Just look at his contributions...political elite business folks day after day.

by: Libertad @ Tue Aug 17, 2010 at 20:59:04 PM UTC

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It has happened to me

three times with the Sentinel. No word-for-word plagiarism, but stories they didn't otherwise have. No attribution of who broke the story.

I swear some reporters there read my blog for story ideas.

It either flatters me or pisses me off. I haven't figured it out yet, but I think the latter. They get paid, I don't.

Today, you're either going to get better or you're going to get worse, but you're never going to be the same. Which one will it be? --Joseph V. Paterno

by: Ralphie @ Tue Aug 17, 2010 at 21:06:44 PM UTC

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Here's an idea

Throw in some lies or falsehoods in your 'reporting' and get them to copy that. Then call them out of it.

by: Libertad @ Tue Aug 17, 2010 at 21:24:58 PM UTC

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by: you @ soon

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Sorry

No can do. Having a shred of ethics allows me to sleep well at night and I want to continue to do so.

Today, you're either going to get better or you're going to get worse, but you're never going to be the same. Which one will it be? --Joseph V. Paterno

by: Ralphie @ Tue Aug 17, 2010 at 21:31:19 PM UTC

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by: you @ soon

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I'm with Libertad, Ralphie.

My God, I can't believe I just said that.

But hell, I think his idea is brilliant and you could always write a letter stating what you are doing in advance of a post you make on your blog, send it to a 3rd party like Ellie so you can show it to the world afterwards. What the Sentinel does with your stuff is bullshit.

Seriously, nothing unethical in what he's proposing--actually, a pretty smart idea.

"I wouldn't characterize caloric intake as "professional development." c rork

by: Middle of the Road @ Tue Aug 17, 2010 at 21:56:50 PM UTC

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Sorry, won't do it.

They're going to call any sources I list anyway so they can call it "original" reporting.

I won't deliberately publish anything I know to be false.

Today, you're either going to get better or you're going to get worse, but you're never going to be the same. Which one will it be? --Joseph V. Paterno

by: Ralphie @ Tue Aug 17, 2010 at 22:21:06 PM UTC

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by: you @ soon

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Sorry, MOTR, Ralphie is right.

The Sentinel has little in the way of ethics and lost any semblance of pride when it started running Rick Wagner's columns.

Ralphie has both ethics and pride, both justifiably so.

When one of the Sentinel reporters gets a story idea from Ralphie's blog, he or she should credit him. That they don't is, or at least should be, professionally embarrassing.

Likewise, the Post should have credited the Statesman. However, it is remotely possible that the Post reporter dug it up on his own and wasn't aware that Strogoff had already reported it. If that's the case, though, the Post should be embarrassed that its political reporters aren't reading other papers and blogs in the state.

Sometimes, I guess, you have to let the inner bitch out.

by: gertie97 @ Tue Aug 17, 2010 at 22:29:21 PM UTC

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by: you @ soon

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Yeah, you and Ralph are probably right.

And God knows Ralphie is certainly more ethical than I am. No question on that.

That said, I'm still with Lib on this one.

"I wouldn't characterize caloric intake as "professional development." c rork

by: Middle of the Road @ Tue Aug 17, 2010 at 23:42:44 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

They get paid, I don't

That's interesting you should say that, because one of the primary arguments that editors make if they think blogs are "stealing" their content is that blogs are making money off their work -- but you could make the same argument.

by: Colorado Pols @ Tue Aug 17, 2010 at 21:36:25 PM UTC

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I don't run ads on my site

Donations only.

So I don't make money at all. Just enough to cover renewing the domain (I get hosting for free from a friend).

Today, you're either going to get better or you're going to get worse, but you're never going to be the same. Which one will it be? --Joseph V. Paterno

by: Ralphie @ Tue Aug 17, 2010 at 21:39:08 PM UTC

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by: you @ soon

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But blogs are online and therefore the devil AND killing journalism.

Don't you know the Internet is an evil place where people without graduate degrees dare to publish their opinions?

We'll miss you, Gabby.

by: ProgressiveCowgirl @ Tue Aug 17, 2010 at 21:38:39 PM UTC

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The Post sucks

Their handling of their own public forums is ridiculously slipshod and arbitrary.

"Why not do the right thing for the American people, even though it's not exactly what we want." - Speaker Boehner

by: Half Glass Full @ Tue Aug 17, 2010 at 21:41:35 PM UTC

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It is hypocritical

But you're right that the news media has done this forever. Foreign reporters used to grab the first edition of the Washington Post - they would the rewrite it as their article of the day. And this is considered acceptable behavior - because they're all better off by trading on each other and pretending it's from them.

Personally I'm fine if they take some of my stuff and put it in an "original" article. If the idea gets exposure that's the important thing to me. However, I can totally understand that for some people this is wrong because they want recognition for their efforts. And they should get that recognition.

Anyways, shame on the news media members who do this. You can't list everyone who helped in any way because that would fill up half the article. But if you got most of a story from another source, you should mention it.

Where all the cool kids will be on Saturday - Code War!

by: DavidThi808 @ Tue Aug 17, 2010 at 21:46:55 PM UTC

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This has happened to Colorado Pols for years

But we never made a big deal out of it. Our point is just that it seems ridiculous to be upset at blogs, when they actually give more credit for your work than other newspapers might.

by: Colorado Pols @ Tue Aug 17, 2010 at 21:55:35 PM UTC

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Yep

But look back at the origins of the post...

Where all the cool kids will be on Saturday - Code War!

by: DavidThi808 @ Tue Aug 17, 2010 at 21:59:32 PM UTC

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By "post" I meant "Denver Post"

In the early days it would run "investigative" pieces about businesses that didn't advertise in them.

Where all the cool kids will be on Saturday - Code War!

by: DavidThi808 @ Tue Aug 17, 2010 at 22:01:33 PM UTC

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Is that like

ranting about politicians that don't "interview" with you?

by: RedGreen @ Tue Aug 17, 2010 at 22:05:04 PM UTC

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ooh burn

by: Gray in Mountains @ Tue Aug 17, 2010 at 22:15:34 PM UTC

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Burn?

damn, haven't heard that expression in years. You really must be gray!

:-D

by: jpsandscl @ Tue Aug 17, 2010 at 22:31:23 PM UTC

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Or really young

My 12-year-old says that all the time.

Its just like Further, but with tax cuts! - Fidel's Dirt Nap

by: ajb @ Tue Aug 17, 2010 at 22:47:34 PM UTC

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full circle

what's old is new again. and it is ever thus.

by: jpsandscl @ Tue Aug 17, 2010 at 23:24:29 PM UTC

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Old is the new new

Which is actually bullshit, but I'm tired of "is the new" whatever.

Today, you're either going to get better or you're going to get worse, but you're never going to be the same. Which one will it be? --Joseph V. Paterno

by: Ralphie @ Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 00:30:17 AM UTC

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but it's true

everything comes back in fashion after a time- retro clothes, retro cars, retro dances, etc, etc, etc. Every generation thinks it invents everything new again.

by: jpsandscl @ Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 01:05:50 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Ralphie said it first....

I posted a comment on DP, regarding, the amount of negative ads between the Senate Race sides.. my line was something like....

'The people of Colorado had to put on some boots after all the mud-slinging and BS flying around before the primaries, drawing more than flies then on cow-ditty.'

They deleted and admonished me for using a "vile profanity."

So here, I agree with Ralphie....
*[new] Old is the new new
Which is actually bullshit, but I'm tired of "is the new" whatever.

Don't call me Shirley!

Charley Miller

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charleymiller2010

by: charleymiller2010 @ Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 03:30:49 AM UTC

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cow ditty?

maybe if you had said cow patty it wouldn't be half as vile...

by: jpsandscl @ Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 13:24:59 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

actually.

I was relating this to some folks up the hill, hmm somewhere crossing up through Morrison.

They muttered something about Buck n' Bennet, but said didn't one talk about that crap on their boots?

I guess you are right, in a way I am glad the primaries are over, it was alot of mud-slinging.

If you want controversy, ask your local radio host to call me.

Unless I can get there first.

Charley Miller

Unaffiliated

charleymiller2010

by: charleymiller2010 @ Thu Aug 19, 2010 at 08:33:15 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

cool was out and came back as kewl

and ain't that the cat's pajamas.

by: Voyageur @ Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 04:44:19 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

but I pronounce kewl

more like kyoo-el than cool. Must be my age.

by: jpsandscl @ Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 13:23:56 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Gee, what an original comment...

To repeat, Senator Bennet was gracious enough to sit down with me twice for long interviews.

Where all the cool kids will be on Saturday - Code War!

by: DavidThi808 @ Tue Aug 17, 2010 at 23:25:07 PM UTC

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But as I recall, David, Mark Udall was less forthcoming.

by: Voyageur @ Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 04:45:27 AM UTC

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Yep

He apparently didn't appreciate what I said about him. Udall & Lamborn are the two office holders who turned me down.

Where all the cool kids will be on Saturday - Code War!

by: DavidThi808 @ Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 07:14:22 AM UTC

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