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Right-Wing Protesters To Converge On Pelosi?

by: Colorado Pols

Wed Aug 05, 2009 at 16:42:03 PM MDT


From the Denver Post:

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi is scheduled to visit a medical clinic for the homeless north of downtown Denver on Thursday afternoon.

As reported in today's Denver Post, the California Democrat is planning to tour Stout Street Clinic, a walk-in medical facility and pharmacy run by the Colorado Coalition for the Homeless.

The clinic is receiving funds from the federal stimulus package, part of which will help build electronic medical records to cut down on duplication and health care costs.

Rep. Diana DeGette, a Denver Democrat, and vice chair of the committee crafting the House's health reform bill, and Rep. Jared Polis, D-Boulder, are also scheduled to attend.

We're hearing rumors that the right-wing protesters who have been forming ranks over the last few weeks in anticipation of the August recess are being directed to drop whatever they're doing and head downtown tomorrow. As most of you know the latest batch of 'townhall crashers' have been whipped into enough of a frenzy to get downright nasty with, well, just about anybody--Nancy Pelosi, though, has been inculcated into the minds of these protesters as only a step or two removed from Satan himself. You can just imagine what a high-value target they consider her for disruption, preparations that have been made for this contingency...should probably be doubled.

UPDATE: Yup, H/T Squarestate.net:

This is a last minute Protest Alert

Nancy Pelosi, Jared Polis and Diana DeGette will be at Denver's Stout Street Clinic Tomorrow.

When: August 6, 2009

Time: 2:00 PM

Where:
Stout Street Clinic
2100 Broadway
Denver, CO

Front Range & Broomfield 912 Groups will be attending. Spread the word, any 912 or Tea Party support will be appreciated!

Cry havoc.
Colorado Pols :: Right-Wing Protesters To Converge On Pelosi?
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Right-Wing Protesters To Converge On Pelosi? | 92 comments
People like this are beneath contempt
Shouting people down is horribly anti-democratic. The people doing this are pond scum.

Amazon tax? Bad Idea!
You are right...
Good thing we never saw these kind of tactics with anti-war protesters.  They were never disruptive, shouted people, down, or even publicly protested!  The nerve of these right-wing protesters!
[ Parent ]
Yeah - They weren't even allowed into the town halls
Goose stepping Republicans made sure that potential protesters were barred from entering official government meetings paid for by taxpayers.  If you had an politically incorrect bumper sticker on your car, you were identified and barred from entering the meeting.  Maybe Democrats should learn from Republicans and just suppress dissent before it gets through the front door?  I'm not afraid of a bunch of brown shirts showing why the Republican Party is anti-American.  Let them in and let them put on their little skits.  It just confirms to everyone that Republicans don't really believe in Democracy and rational discussions.  All they care about is power and the unborn.
[ Parent ]
There are...
assholes on both sides.

Publicly protesting is different that showing up and shouting down people you disagree with.  Shouting down people you disagree with is wrong...no matter which side is doing it.

The one good thing that could come from the right wingers protesting today is that this could be the only time in their lives they will ever see homeless people.  Perhaps a bit of compassion will seep into their stone hearts...

"But when I see a 9-11 victim family on television, or whatever, I'm just like, 'Oh, shut up!' I'm so sick of them because they're always complaining."  Glenn Beck  

[ Parent ]
It is an effective meida diversion
It doesn't take much for the cowardly MSM to turn their attention from the actual issues to the media circus created specifically for their benefit by right wing operatives.  I would probably say willing cooperation because actually examining ways to improve health care is so tedious.

One of the things I saw that I hope makes it into the final legislation is the negotiation by the federal government with pharmaceutical companies on volume pricing.  I always thought the Medicare Prescription bill passed by the Republican Congress was a pork paradise for the drug companies.  It is a good way to slow down the growth in health care costs.  "We buy billions of pills from you and in return you give us your best volume discount.  No more paying retail".

[ Parent ]
No, unfortunately
The White House cut a deal with the pharmaceutical companies. They're going to fork over $80 billion, but that's it. Some members of Congress wanted to see them pay closer to $1 trillion.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08...

Very disappointing move by the Obama administration.

"Nice driveby spin" -- Libertad

"This site is filled simpletons..." -- JO

[ Parent ]
Agree wholeheartedly....
A few years ago, shortly after the start of the Iraq War, then Reps. Udall and Beauprez co-hosted a townhall meeting in Arvada.  Beauprez was the target of being shouted down by anti-war protesters and, although I wholeheartedly agreed with what they were saying, I strongly disagreed with their methods and actually felt a bit of sympathy with Beauprez.  He looked dumbstruck.

Following the meeting, I made a point of going up to him, thanked him for making himself available for the town hall, and let him know that while I opposed the war, did not agree with his position it and would likely never vote for him, I did not approve of the way he had been treated at the meeting.

"But when I see a 9-11 victim family on television, or whatever, I'm just like, 'Oh, shut up!' I'm so sick of them because they're always complaining."  Glenn Beck  

[ Parent ]
Which side is Polis going to be on?
When he starts shouting "no new taxes!" at Pelosi and DeGette, can someone get a photo? I'm out of the area at the moment.

"You need to move past Fourier transforms and start thinking quantum mechanics!" --The Transformers
This is the time to show up & give support

We need to fight back and be there for both Nancy Pelosi & Diana DeGette. They are a bunch of bullies and once they find out we're not afraid of them they'll crawl back under the rock from whence they came.
bullies that were elected...
by a lot
[ Parent ]
who let the dogs out ?
.
Huh.  Huh.
.
[ Parent ]
At least the astroturfers won't be treated
as shabby as the anti-war protesters were at Bush town hall meetings.  It is funny how quickly the righties forget their paranoid attempts to suppress dissent when they were in charge.

And if you ask them to be respectful to the process, they will scream that their right to freedom of speech is being taken away and call Democrats Nazis.  God forbid that they should allow other people to contribute to the discussion.  You can bet that these Republicans will misbehave and then claim to be the victims.  You can take that one to the bank.

Reminds me of ProgressNow
All these so called right wingers have taken lessons from Mike Huttner and the gang at Progress Now.  See what it feels like.
I don't remember this tactic...
Maybe it was sent in the same envelope as the check from George Soros and I just missed it.

Seriously - show me the Progress Now crowd shouting down Musgrave or Tancredo like this.  More seriously - show me the out-of-state progressive protesters who come in just to make it look like a mass uprising among locals.

"I have come to the conclusion that the making of laws is like the making of sausages-the less you know about the process the more you respect the result."  -- Anonymous IL State Rep. circa 1878

[ Parent ]
You can try
here

Attacks on Republicans at forums is nothing new.  Now that Democrats are getting mild (in comparison) opposition in public forums it has gone from being freedom of speech to "mob rule".

Gee, and I can remember when dissent was, you know, patriotic

Blond women all look the same to me-sxp151

[ Parent ]
yeah - that is sort of the same
At UNC yo had a bunch of UNC students invited to an event erupting in an obnoxious shout down.

the 912/teabaggers show up where ever people want to talk healthcare to shout down anyone who attempts to talk.

Example - for it to be similar tomorrow, the folks at the Clinic would have to shout down Pelosi & DeGette.  

[ Parent ]
There's a difference between dissent...
...and verbal thuggery. Speak when it's your turn and you have my full support. Drown out others when it's there turn and then you're a thug.

Amazon tax? Bad Idea!
[ Parent ]
Yes, and you can see the reaction...
There are several Daily Kos diaries about it, and the reaction to that event was very mixed - lots of folks condemning the action.  And even a post in a diary from Tuesday after the Rep. Doggett was prevented from speaking, stating that, yes, the UNC event was just as bad.

Oh - one other thing...  The UNC event was sponsored by a group called Youth for Western Civilization ("promote[s] the survival of Western civilization" and provides "opposition to racial multiculturalism").  It is a group affiliated to the Leadership Institute, a conservative organization whose goals include being so over-the-top that you incite your opponents to lose their cool.  At the time, they were running a contest for their affiliates; some of the points for judging included ensuring that the event generated opposition and getting media coverage.  YWC has close ties to (aka was founded by) white supremacists; it has anti-racial goals as part of its mission statement; it invited an ex-congressman known for his racist and pseudo-racist statements and ties to speak on topics related to race and culture.  I'd say it met the Leadership Institute's goals of creating controversy...

What the protesters in that video did was uncool, let's be clear.  To use Tancredo's words to apply both to then and now: "When all you can do is yell epithets, that means you are intellectually bankrupt."

So - wanna step up and condemn what these "conservatives" are doing as progressives did after the UNC incident?

"I have come to the conclusion that the making of laws is like the making of sausages-the less you know about the process the more you respect the result."  -- Anonymous IL State Rep. circa 1878

[ Parent ]
BS
Here's the 'big scary group' used to justify calling this an astroturf moment.  Pfft.

FAIL: Smoking Gun Memo From DNC's "Mob" Ad a Barely Functioning PAC With $5K in the Bank and Five Twitter Followers....

"Kevin and I will keep them out somehow -- even if we have to redefine what the peer-review literature is!"  

[ Parent ]
The Think Progress article has more
In context, Think Progress makes no claims that the memo was "the" strategy, or that the author's PAC was itself responsible for all of the acts.

It does note that the memo contains points similar to those being distributed by FreedomWorks, which is a very well-funded astroturf organization.  And it notes that the memo's author is also associated with the Tea Party Patriots, who are being sponsored by FreedomWorks and Americans for Prosperity, another group set up to combat health care reform.  And it notes that Americans for Prosperity is busing people across the country to protest as part of its astroturf movement.

So the article you link isn't being terribly accurate in its portrayal.

"I have come to the conclusion that the making of laws is like the making of sausages-the less you know about the process the more you respect the result."  -- Anonymous IL State Rep. circa 1878

[ Parent ]
Thank you PR for the information

[ Parent ]
Thanks Phoenix

[ Parent ]
What out-of-state protestors?
The only out-of-stater that's come up here is Nancy Pelosi?
[ Parent ]
BIG PICTURE ON THE Front page of the New York Times
When McCain spoke at DU last spring.  At least six hecklers were tossed at that one alone.

It was on all the TV stations and all of the "Chatter" networks too.

[ Parent ]
Hecklers are tossed all the time
It comes from all sides.  What I'm talking about is this kind of uber-organized shout-down.  The UNC Tancredo thing is the example of the left going nuts.

Back to the original question: is it alright to do this?  Everyone's claiming free speech all of a sudden.

"I have come to the conclusion that the making of laws is like the making of sausages-the less you know about the process the more you respect the result."  -- Anonymous IL State Rep. circa 1878

[ Parent ]
It's not a free speech issue
in the constitutional sense, just in the practical sense. There are behaviors, both private and organizational, that stifle speech, and behaviors that promote it. Normatively discouraging the former and encouraging the latter is socially beneficial.

Beep-Beep!
[ Parent ]
Free speech is a red herring.
Didn't a guy named Gates just get arrested on his own front porch for yelling at a cop?

Why wasn't that a free-speech issue?

When I use lots of words, they always form an analysis (and, while producing high volume, also produce high information-density).
--Steve Harvey, 2009

[ Parent ]
Because
the cop hadn't shown up at his front porch to address a gathering of constituents. Just a guess.

There is no "free speech" issue. There is only an issue of tactics that obstruct dialogue.

Beep-Beep!

[ Parent ]
The beauty of the internet
Is that you can find everything now. People can no longer hide behind short term memories. This was peaceful and non-disruptive, right? And certainly non-astroturf with professionally printed signs.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...

Why is it when Libs do it it's "real" but when conservatives do it it's "staged"?

"I'll give your president the same respect you gave mine."

[ Parent ]
Here are your 'Astroturfers'
Time to come to grips with the fact that people hate this bill.

"I went to school in this school," a man named Bob told me.  "I don't see anyone in this room that isn't from Mardela Springs right now."

"We've been quiet too long," said a woman named Joan.

"Kevin and I will keep them out somehow -- even if we have to redefine what the peer-review literature is!"  

Good article...
Some more quotes showing a bit of the other side...
As the crowd grew, and began venting frustration over the fact they would only be meeting with the congressman behind closed doors, Kratovil's aides suggested he switch to a town hall format. [It was to be a one-on-one with local citizens...]

The aides seemed nervous.  Last week, someone hanged Kratovil in effigy outside his district office in Centreville, Maryland.  


Two elderly women said they were embarrassed by their neighbors.

"They were rude!  Oh, they were behaving terribly," one said, calling it a "disgrace to our community."
Said another of the anger, which sounded very much to her like what she hears on Fox News and conservative talk radio, "If it's not manufactured, they're brainwashed."



"I have come to the conclusion that the making of laws is like the making of sausages-the less you know about the process the more you respect the result."  -- Anonymous IL State Rep. circa 1878
[ Parent ]
Nope
To deny this is being orchestrated is to be disingenuous.

If you agree with the tactics, fine, we'll go from there. Just don't say it's not happening.

In the last few days you've selected a few clips of rational (some) and concerned (some) citizens and used them as examples of the opposition to the bill.

They're not.

These people, for the most part, are/teabaggers/birthers/deathers/astroturfers/clusterfox lemmings and general disgruntled that Obama won goofs and screwballs. They have 0 interest in debating the plusses and minuses of this HB 3200. They are there to shut down the process. Fini. Done.

It really looks to me like the vast majority of these nitwits screaming "read the bill" most likely don't even know its' name (HB3200) or that it's a work in progress. Highly doutfull they've "read the bill". Listening to the doomsday scenario painted by malkin, oreilly, dobbs, boyles, cunny bob, levin, limbaugh, hannity and beck and then regurgitating those shrieks isn't "reading the bill". Parroting the freedom's watch or the heritage foundation's "analysis" or    Drudge's "analysis" isn't "reading the bill". Saying old people gotta die under "Obama Care" is simply repeating an ignorant talking point pushed by millionaires that are laughing at the gullable lemmings from behind their gaited communities even as they're whipping them into a frenzy.

All this for a work in progress. A work in progress that's readily available on the net. Go to 760. "Read the bill". It's evolving. It's not done.

Dwyer said it right. This bullshit has changed the subject. And it's something that should not have surprised anybody that's ever dealt with the right.

If this red tactic works, and the democratic process of town meetings is curtailed by the thugs', shills', loudmouths', clusterfox lemmings' and paid operatives' tactic of complete shoutdown,  it is to the detriment of us all. The red end justifies the means ideology will undermine the national security if it's successfull.

Watch the HBO special "Right America, feeling wronged". Catch a utube video of the crowd in line at the McCain rally at the National Western last october prior to the event being opened up or the Palin rallies 2-3 weeks pre-election. Listen to the vitriol via utube at any caldara/independence institute outing.    That's a great crosscut of who these people are. Listen to 850, 630, 710 any time and you'll get the gist of the strategy and tactics.

What's so frustrating is that opposing the very possibility of a public option is cutting your nose off to spite your face. And these idiots don't even see it! Public option will drive down the cost. Don't even think about  trying the "Lewan Group" grift on me.

The republicans have, once again, successfully appealed to the ronnie reagan "the only one gettin' anything better be me" selfishness that permeates, decays and infects the conservative ideology. It's working.

I wonder how many of these dolts screaming about "socialized medicine" are on Medicare.
Medicaid. Or some other "socialist program".

How about the Michelle Malkin teabaggers getting a "free speach zone" 2-3 miles from any event, ala bushworld. Turnabout's fair play.  

   

[ Parent ]
So...
How about the Michelle Malkin teabaggers getting a "free speach zone" 2-3 miles from any event, ala bushworld. Turnabout's fair play.  

You are saying you don't believe in free speech?

"Kevin and I will keep them out somehow -- even if we have to redefine what the peer-review literature is!"  

[ Parent ]
No, I'm not.
Just pointing out the difference between republican and Democratic events.

In redworld, disagreeing with anything republicans do is unamerican. Shutting down a Democratic event by shout down is free speech.

So that last paragraph is all you care to respond to?

Also, where besides clusterfox are you getting the info that you can't keep your own plan?

Be specific. If I'm wrong I'll acknowledge.

[ Parent ]
Ok.
What if your employer picks up the public option instead of the current plan he has you on?

"Kevin and I will keep them out somehow -- even if we have to redefine what the peer-review literature is!"  
[ Parent ]
How is that bad?


[ Parent ]
And still waiting
For the hard target info on where you saw that I can't keep my current plan.

From where did you get this?

[ Parent ]
Huh?
What if I like the plan I'm on with my employer, and they cancel it and go to the rationed, crappy-ass government public option because it's cheaper?

That is a scenario where I don't get to keep my own plan, is it not?

Here's a great analysis from Heritage.

"Kevin and I will keep them out somehow -- even if we have to redefine what the peer-review literature is!"  

[ Parent ]
I liked the plan my employer had
but they cancelled it because one employee (among about 30 insured) got treated for prostate cancer and the renewal premiums went through the roof. Now we're on a rationed, crappy-ass and still quite expensive private plan.

That's the current scenario, where I didn't get to keep my own plan, is it not?

[ Parent ]
Right,
But you have options now.  You won't if this thing passes.  The only private insurers left will be much too expensive for most of us to afford, and you'll be waiting in line for your prostate exam with everyone else.

"Kevin and I will keep them out somehow -- even if we have to redefine what the peer-review literature is!"  
[ Parent ]
you'll be waiting in line for your prostate exam with everyone else
Who gets a prostate exam these days without scheduling an appointment, usually weeks out? What are you talking about?

[ Parent ]
But you have options now.
Well, no, not really, unless paying way too much for coverage that can be cancelled when claims arise or taking the shitty discount coverage counts as a real option. I have friends who work at smaller companies who insure through the state pool and are extremely satisfied with it -- why shouldn't we have that option?
[ Parent ]
We should.
I never said reform is a bad idea.  I'm all for it, but I don't want the Federal government taking over healthcare.  This bill effectively does that after some time.

I would think tort reform of some kind would be part of a reform package.  It's not mentioned in this bill.

"Kevin and I will keep them out somehow -- even if we have to redefine what the peer-review literature is!"  

[ Parent ]
What state pool...
...are you refering to, RG? I don't recall there being one for small employer groups.
[ Parent ]
There's a state pool
It's hard to get into, but it does exist - I've got a friend who runs his own business who's in it.  It's the only way he and his wife can afford health care, as they both have pre-existing conditions.

It's called CoverColorado, and it insures somewhere around 5,000 people - all eligible under HIPPA, Medicare, or as uninsurable risks.

Essentially, it's the state subsidizing insurance companies by taking on those individuals the insurance companies don't want - but would have to take anyway if they were employed by a large company.

"I have come to the conclusion that the making of laws is like the making of sausages-the less you know about the process the more you respect the result."  -- Anonymous IL State Rep. circa 1878

[ Parent ]
I am aware of CC...
...but it is not a pool for small employer groups, which is what I though RG was talking about.  

CC is not "hard to get into", but it isn't exactly affordable either.  Which leaves many uninsurable people without coverage.

Your friend might be better off looking into obtaining coverage under the small group laws.  An eligible SG (or business group of one) cannot be denied coverage due to pre-ex.  

[ Parent ]
Maybe that's what he's in
He mentioned something about being in a group of one.

It still isn't cheap.

"I have come to the conclusion that the making of laws is like the making of sausages-the less you know about the process the more you respect the result."  -- Anonymous IL State Rep. circa 1878

[ Parent ]
I imagine not.
And getting more expensive every year, whether it is a result of higher premiums, decreased benefits, rising deductables and copays or all of the above.

The State required small group plan offerings (Basic and Standard) aren't "pools", but rather plans that each insurer must offer/issue to qualified small groups and business groups of one and have to contain mandated benefits.

It's the individual applicant that really gets the short end of the stick in the health care market.  They have little protection under Colorado law and are totally at the mercy of the Company's underwriting guidelines.  That's who CoverColorado was set-up for--anyone who gets declined for coverage or who is offered a higher than standard premium due to health issues.  

[ Parent ]
I feel like I'm baby sitting here
The Lewan Group is a wholly owned subsisiary of United Healthcare. And this ain't hard information, it's industry drivel disquised as "analysis".

This is part of 1.4 million per day they're spending on this misinformation.

This is the old "shooter tells NYT Niger has yellow cake. Shooter then tells MTP' Russert the NYT even says Niger has yellow cake" dodge transferred to healthcare. And you ain't even seein' it!!!!!

The heritage foundation??????? LB, you gotta do better than that. Any doubts, Wiki them.

Gotta go to work.

Talk at ya later.

[ Parent ]
No.
You don't get to ignore competent analysis because it comes from a biased source.

Read the whole bill then.  Show me where Heritage is wrong.

"Kevin and I will keep them out somehow -- even if we have to redefine what the peer-review literature is!"  

[ Parent ]
I got to page two...
Then it started making shit up.

It states as fact that in Y3, all employers could join the public plan.  That's false - only if the Health Choices Commissioner believes that the infrastructure of the public option could support the extra influx of people would they increase the eligibility requirements.  In all likelihood, it will take an extra 5 or 10 years to get to that stage...

It states that the public option would be paid with Medicare procedures; in fact, that would only be true for 3 years until the program had the opportunity to evaluate its true costs and payments.

It lumps Medicaid recipients into its figures, where they should remain separate.

The rest of the analysis is based on these flawed assumptions.  I already shot down most of the talking points Libertad posted the other day - go back and read it.

"I have come to the conclusion that the making of laws is like the making of sausages-the less you know about the process the more you respect the result."  -- Anonymous IL State Rep. circa 1878

[ Parent ]
You keep saying we won't have options
Prove it or shut the fuck up.

I used to have a lot of respect for you, LB.  I've always been sure that if you felt a certain way, it was grounded in facts.

So it's time to come forward with your facts.  Or, barring that, simply be regarded as just another liar about healthcare reform.

When I use lots of words, they always form an analysis (and, while producing high volume, also produce high information-density).
--Steve Harvey, 2009

[ Parent ]
Ok.
What exactly are you asking me and I'll tell you and relate it to the bill as it's known to be written at this point.

My contention is that in a short time, there will be no other viable options to the public option outlined in the bill, in fact, that being the bill's purpose.

"Kevin and I will keep them out somehow -- even if we have to redefine what the peer-review literature is!"  

[ Parent ]
Yes I can
When an industry produced "analysis" is pushed by an extreme organization for the specific purpose of disinformation we will, do, and get to ignore it.

Show you where Heritage is wrong? There's no place in the Bill where it says you can't change. I can't prove a negative. I'm asking you for thoughtfull and substantive counter. You're cutting and pasring and regurgitating repub talking points.

This Lewan spew is absolute trash.

[ Parent ]
You're assuming
that a public option is going to be a rationed, crappy-ass plan.

Or is that the talking point?

Isn't your private plan rationed?  Mine is.
I don't like corporate beancounters making life-or-death decisions for me.

And a second point.  Why would your employer go to a government plan anyway?  I thought the government couldn't do anything right?

When I use lots of words, they always form an analysis (and, while producing high volume, also produce high information-density).
--Steve Harvey, 2009

[ Parent ]
Because it's cheaper.
Why would they pay more if they didn't have to?  Plus the price of private  insurance is going to skyrocket once they have to cover everyone.

It's a moot point.  The public option looks like it's out in the compromise they're working on.  

"Kevin and I will keep them out somehow -- even if we have to redefine what the peer-review literature is!"  

[ Parent ]
Insurers are getting a free ride right now...
Saw an interesting analysis the other day...

Health insurer states that 0.5% of their insured had their health care rescinded - a surely minor percentage.  But, only 5% of their covered in an average year used their premium's worth of payments; 10% of them were rescinded (no health insurer in their right mind would rescind a policy that's making it money...).  In all likelihood, those 0.5% were mostly taken from the top 1 or 2% of their risk pool - 25-50% of that group.

On top of that, health insurers really tag small groups and individual insured if one of the group members becomes ill.  In short, they make up the money they lost on one person by assessing surcharges and higher rates the next year.  (Saw one person who had this done to her employer after she became seriously ill - she calculates the insurer actually MADE $100 off the deal!)

In short, the insurer in today's market tries to break even on its most expensive insured, and earn profits on its healthy customers.

What you want is for the government to continue subsidizing the insurers - same goes for any public catastrophic re-insurance.

"I have come to the conclusion that the making of laws is like the making of sausages-the less you know about the process the more you respect the result."  -- Anonymous IL State Rep. circa 1878

[ Parent ]
Aha
Yep, you're finally getting the point.

You say you pay for your own health insurance, so your employer argument is purely a straw man.  That's OK.

If an employer switches from a private plan to a public plan, it's going to be for one of only two reasons.  1) it's better, or 2) it's cheaper.

Cheaper health care is what I'm after.  If the private health care companies can't continue to have 155 percent profit increases, well, then get more efficient.

The money's gonna go somewhere.  Either to paying for patient care, or paying executive salaries or dividends.  You've lined up against patient care.

At least we know where you're coming from.

I've always been suspicious of any private company who is afraid of a public option.  If the private companies are more efficient, as they would try to lead us to believe, there's nothing for them to worry about.

When I use lots of words, they always form an analysis (and, while producing high volume, also produce high information-density).
--Steve Harvey, 2009

[ Parent ]
"Why would they pay more if they didn't have to?"
Why would they pay more if they didn't have to?

Because according to you one is good and one is crappy.
In the free market people pay more for good than for crappy. In fact, they only buy crappy if the can't afford better or don't care or don't know.

So what you are really saying is the public option will underprice private healthcare but be crappy.  bring it on.

[ Parent ]
Speaking of the left being "out there" in their protest tactics...
Isn't "cunny" Bob a bit misogynistic?  Or were you implying he's cunning?

She wrote "tax cuts" on her hand.  A Republican so stupid she had to be reminded of the one thing: "tax cuts."  It's like if you saw Wile E. Coyote's paw and it said "road runner."
[ Parent ]
It makes no difference
whether people who do this kind of thing are Democrats or Republicans: Those who defend it on the basis that "the other party did it" are committed to a race to the bottom. Stifling speech, curtailing dialogue, are the tactics of thugs, and contribute to public ignorance. Period.

Beep-Beep!
Agreed
Tactics like this on both sides add nothing to the discourse and in fact run counter to the intent of the First Amendment.

"There is no question that western Pennsylvania is a racist area"
Congressman John Murtha, PA 12th CD, 1932-2010
Medical care by the best health care system in the world.


[ Parent ]
I was going to go and Counter the Tea-Baggers...
....but then I realized who was "representing" the Democrats on this issue, and now I'm ok with them being harrassed and screamed at.

Can't stand Pelosi, DeGette is a health-care industry bitch, and Polis only represents the Millionaire Segment of his district.

Hope it goes badly for them...

"There is something good and motherly about Washington, the grand old benevolent National Asylum for the helpless." Mark Twain

This tactic isn't being reserved
for just those Democrats you dislike: Other Democratic office-holders, undoubtedly some of whom you approve of, have expressed their awareness that they will be targeted as well.

It doesn't matter what you think of the individuals whose speech is being curtailed by a slimy tactic like this; it only matters that speech is being curtailed.

Beep-Beep!

[ Parent ]
???
Getting an earful from your constituents is not the curtailment of speech.  It's called accountability.


"Kevin and I will keep them out somehow -- even if we have to redefine what the peer-review literature is!"  
[ Parent ]
If all get to speak - yes
But if they shout down everyone else, then it is curtailment of speech.

Amazon tax? Bad Idea!
[ Parent ]
Really?
You mean like this?

"Kevin and I will keep them out somehow -- even if we have to redefine what the peer-review literature is!"  
[ Parent ]
This is totally crazy
Insisting that the nutters not disrupt an entire public meeting and insisting that one person gets the floor at a time is now denying free speech ?

So we now have to accept anarchy at any public meeting because the nutters say so ?  

Guess I need to brush up on my Roberts Rules of Order: Complete Kooks Edition.

"Good judgement comes from experience.  Experience comes from bad judgement" - Jim Horning

[ Parent ]
Unsurprisingly, the ignorant
are also the advocates of ignorance. An orchestrated tactic to derail attempts by elected Democratic office-holders to speak in public is not "constituent feedback," and the defensive counter-tactic it necessitates is not comparable to it. People unable to shine a flashlight in one ear and out the other understand this.

Beep-Beep!
[ Parent ]
Unsurprisingly, the pompous
Are also the smarmy advocates of condescension. Nobody twittered me and I'm totally in opposition to this bill.  I'm not going to stop anyone from talking, but I will certainly make my voice heard.

The defensive counterattack is exactly comparable to it.

Poor, silly, ignorant me.  Too stupid to know what it is that I really want or need for myself.

"Kevin and I will keep them out somehow -- even if we have to redefine what the peer-review literature is!"  

[ Parent ]
How does it feel
to be part of the conservative equivalent of Code Pink? It's absolutely hilarious to me that you guys now are on the same level as Cindy Sheehan. Congrats.

"Nice driveby spin" -- Libertad

"This site is filled simpletons..." -- JO

[ Parent ]
I'm the conservative equivalent of you, not Code Pink.
I'm not shouting anyone down.  In fact, do you have video of that actually happening?  I haven't seen any.

I'm just like you during the Bush admin.  If people get a little wacky because their pissed (Iraq War, Healthcare) it doesn't mean I endorse their tactics (alleged, in the case of these town halls, actual in the case of the code pink morons) but I don't have to distance myself from the shared belief that has nothing to do with tactics.

Luke....I am your father....

"Kevin and I will keep them out somehow -- even if we have to redefine what the peer-review literature is!"  

[ Parent ]
alleged?
Where have you been?
[ Parent ]
SHow me some video.
I haven't seen someone not being allowed to speak ala Tancredo at any of these healthcare town halls.

It's possible it happened, but I haven't seen video.

I've seen plenty of people being upset, but none where someone wasn't allowed to speak.

"Kevin and I will keep them out somehow -- even if we have to redefine what the peer-review literature is!"  

[ Parent ]
Democracy, red style
Video?

You can look this up for yourself. I don't do windows.

Google John Dingell Town hall meeting. Any of 'em. From the "townhall.com" braggadocio and gloating to the straight up video of these assholes disrupting the American process. Hey, you guys have been mob-ruling since Florida 2000, so what's new?

But then again, in red world that's ok, right? After all if all this horseshit leads to Obama's defeat, that's fine, right?

And to make matters worse, he is after your healthcare and he's gettin' into your computer through cash for clunkers, he's settin' up FEMA camps all over, and this just in......He's a Kenyan citizen, just ask chuck norris.

On and on.

Suggested reading:
Krugman's column this am
Sirota's column this am

Love the repub chant, "keep government out of my Medicare.".


[ Parent ]
I never realized before
that red herrings swam in schools. With the agility of a contortionist, you waxed indignant over a criticism that wasn't made, and disregarded the one that was made. Not only are you able to put your virtual foot in your virtual mouth, but your able to do it while talking out your ass at the same time. Congrats!

Beep-Beep!
[ Parent ]
Good substance in that reply. n/t


"Kevin and I will keep them out somehow -- even if we have to redefine what the peer-review literature is!"  
[ Parent ]
Disagree; Hope lots of reform supporters show up
regardless of how any might feel about DeGette, Pelosi, Polis or any other pol.  It's not about them. It's about getting decent healthcare options that can't be pulled out from under you when you actually need them.  

If only the anti crowd shows up with their lies about government forcing people into a public plan and talking grandma into assisted suicide, that's all the media will cover.  The story will be the groundswell of opposition to reform and the lies will go unchallenged. Pols will use that "groundswell" to justify their pandering to the deep pocket health and health insurance industry.  

The goal should be for so many to show up in support of reform that the lazy, simple minded media can't miss it and pols can't screw us with the excuse that "the people made me do it".

An Interesting thing at one of these town halls that was shown on TV:  An anti lady asked who is against socialized  health care.  Almost all hands went up.  The pol then asked how many have medicare.  Almost all the same hands went up in the clearest possible showing of mass ignorance.  The cry "We don't want the government running our health care or messing with our medicare" is as common as it priceless. So, if you have a clue and the time, show up. You don't have to like Pelosi or anyone else.

[ Parent ]
What I said to Rocco...
..I'm not the thought police, but calling DDG the HC industry "bitch" isn't very far from Broyles' "Vagina DeJette"

She wrote "tax cuts" on her hand.  A Republican so stupid she had to be reminded of the one thing: "tax cuts."  It's like if you saw Wile E. Coyote's paw and it said "road runner."
[ Parent ]
Over $600K in donations since she's been in office makes it so...
...she collected almost $250K from the Health Care industry last election cycle, in which she had no primary opponent had never bothered to to campaign against her GOP opponent.

I use the term "bitch" in the urban, prison-companion vernacular, and not the more common reference to the female of a species.

"There is something good and motherly about Washington, the grand old benevolent National Asylum for the helpless." Mark Twain

[ Parent ]
And your meaning is clear...
How?

Whatever you MEANT, it's not appropriate to call a woman a bitch in almost any context, but particularly not one where we're painting the opposition (justly) as around the bend loony tunes.

How has she done the insurance industry's bidding?  As their "bitch" she should be throwing a monkey wrench in the reform process.  Evidence she's doing so?

She wrote "tax cuts" on her hand.  A Republican so stupid she had to be reminded of the one thing: "tax cuts."  It's like if you saw Wile E. Coyote's paw and it said "road runner."

[ Parent ]
Teabaggers in the heart of the big, bad city?
The city that scares them so very much?  

At a clinic that cares for the homeless?  Near a gay bar, a park know for drug use and a bus depot that is used by people going to and from Mexico?  

This should be good.  

Agreed Divad
Stout Street Clinic is a key part to delivering healthcare to needy populations in Denver. Without this clinic our ERs and criminal justice system would be even busier and more stressed.

Personally, I hope the homeless, the gay bar patrons, the immigrants and the Stout St Clinic staff round up all the astro-turfers or tea baggers or whatever they're called, they can, and make them clean the bathrooms in the clinic, serve food at nearby homeless shelters and collect trash in the neighborhood all day.  

A little community empathy would go much further than putrefied partisanship.  

[ Parent ]
Stout Street Clinic deserves kudos...
Much agreed.
[ Parent ]
Are these people even capable...
...of empathy?  I have my doubts.

After all, the homeless should just get jobs and pull themselves up by their bootstraps, the "illegals" are the root of all evil and should just go back where they came from, the addicted should be locked away and the gays are an abomination of Gawd's laws.  

I'd settle for them realizing that these people are human beings just like them.  Won't hold my breath for that to happen though.    

[ Parent ]
Will they really be shouted down?
I suspect they won't be speaking outdoors. They'll be inside talking to the staff, as the press watches and gather quotes from them.

After all, it's a clinic tour, not a Town Hall meeting.

The only way I'll go and observe...
is if I can be guaranteed an outside seat at the British Bulldog across the street from the clinic and a pint of Fullers London Pride.

Might be amusing in that context.

It will always...
...be the Punchbowl to me.  
[ Parent ]
Ditto for me
except that I would choose Fullers ESB.
[ Parent ]
Yeah, I thought about that after posting already...
That is the better beer.  
[ Parent ]
Smithwicks or Murphy's Stout...
...all British alcohol is based on Irish inventions.

"There is something good and motherly about Washington, the grand old benevolent National Asylum for the helpless." Mark Twain
[ Parent ]
As a good Democrat, I fully support the teabaggers' antics.
They seem to be having a good time discrediting themselves. I can enjoy that too.
Right-Wing Protesters To Converge On Pelosi? | 92 comments
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