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November 16, 2016 06:43 AM UTC

Wednesday Open Thread

  • 21 Comments
  • by: Colorado Pols

“In any society, fanatics who hate don’t hate only me–they hate you, too. They hate everybody.”

–Elie Wiesel

Comments

21 thoughts on “Wednesday Open Thread

    1. Blue Cat is not our leader. Speak for yourself, V.

      You and Blue Cat, along with Frank Underwood, presented the most obnoxious display of arrogance and misplaced certitude I have ever witnessed. All of you heaped scorn and ridicule on anyone who dared challenge the inevitability of her Highness. 

      It is hard for smug know-it-alls like the three of you to admit you were wrong. You are the only one of the three to which I still respond…and this is probably the last time that is going to happen.

      It is great fun for people like you, BC, and Frank Underwood to slam people like Zappatero, me, and any others who challenge your all-knowing self-righteousness. But you're not having much fun now, are you?

      Take care of yourself, V. I am sure BC and Frank will be back soon so that I can continue to enjoy ignoring all three of you.

       

       

        1. I did not vote for Trump, V. My candidate would have beaten him. You cannot tell me he wouldn't have.

          Deflect all you want. Your centrist, corporation loving, Blue Dog, "only Hillary can win" bullshit put Trump in office…don't blame anyone but yourself. You and the rest of the Clintonistas can deny your mistake until your last breath…but you put Donald Trump in the White House..

          That is something you have to live with.

          1. Hillary beat Trump by more than 1,000,000 votes.  She beat Sanders by 3.7 million votes.  Trump would have cleaned Sander's clock in both popular and electoral votes.  The United States is not going to elect anyone who is a self-proclaimed "socialist" (even though I might like that).

            1.  Trump would have cleaned Sander's clock in both popular and electoral votes.

              Really? All the polls indicated otherwise…and I might add that all the predictions made by all us brilliant pundits have been wrong. Why should your insistence that Trump would have beaten Bernie mean anything to anyone?

              and…Bernie Sanders is a social democrat who maintains his independence by keeping the Democratic party at arms length..and is wise to do so.

              If Bernie Sanders is a "socialist", then certainly Michael Bennet, John Hickenlooper and Hillary Clinton are all "Republi-crats" (hat tip to my son, Dylan). I suggest to anyone who thinks they have figured this out…think again.

               

              1. Bernie led Trump in the polls because he had not been ran through the meat grinder.  Trump would have clobbered him.  As to Bernie's identification as a socialist…I'm not using it as a pejorative….he self-identifies with the term:   "When he first won election to the House in 1990, Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) embraced his political identity. 'I am a socialist and everyone knows that,' Sanders said, responding to an ad that tried to link him to the regime of Fidel Castro.".  From "The Fix" Washington Post, April 29, 2015.  I don't have a problem with the term and, in many ways, apply it to myself.  But I'm not facing voters in a national election…and a national election is generally not the best venue for initiating an economics lesson. 

                .

              2. Uhhh, earth to duke, Bernie is a socialist..  it isn't an insult, it is a fact.   But he will be 79 in four years , 83 and 87 if elected president after one or two terms.   It is ludirous for him to run again.  Pass the socialist torch to elizabeth warren and make those mysygynistic lefties who hated hillary but claim they werent anti- woman choke on their hypocrisy.

          2. The people who were tired of a corrupt system and of incremental change wanted Bernie (on the left) and Trump (on the right). Trump decided to spout a populist message, but mixed it with anti-semitism, racism, and xenophobia.

            Bernie had the biggest crowds and energy of any candidate, and the clearest, least confusing policy messge, whether you liked it or not.

            I agree with Duke that we lost an opportunity to beat Trump, and maybe lost a generation of millenial voters, by not allowing a fair fight between Sanders and Hillary. The deck was stacked pro-Clinton, and most people admit that now. Yet Bernie himself fought like hell for Clinton, asked his people to vote for her, and we did, although without much enthusiasm..I wonder if she would have done the same for him.

            1. Fish gotta swim, the left's gotta lie..  if bernie would have beaten trump, why did hillary clobber him in most primaries?  The burn was felt mostly in closed caucuses.  But hey, you voted for her.  And she did beat him in the popular vote.  If you wanta believe t

              In the easter bunny I can't stop you.  Your Colorado care got 21 percent of the vote: a socialist proposal backed by bernie and a fair proxy of how a socialist candidate would have fared.

              1. Being Voyageur, you've got to go straight to "The left's gotta lie." No "We interpret this differently,",, no "I disagree because a, b, c," just, "You're lying."

                This is why I don't respond to you.

                That, and I don't have the time or inclination to post a diary or long linky post which you won't read  and won't convince you, anyway. People who were paying attention understand that Bernie never really had a fair shot at the nomination, and why. For the most part, we accepted the outcome, and moved on.

                Sanders remains a leader of the progressive wing. Here's why:

                Video and transcripts from Sanders speech at GWU 11/16/16.

                I miss Bluecat's posts, too, although there's no love lost between us. I expect that, like you, she, too, can't quite get those words, "I was wrong", to flow out of her typing fingers.

            2. I have never understood why Democrats even allowed Bernie Sanders to run for president in the first place.

              Surely both major political parties have a basic rule that states their candidates for president and vice president must be a registered member of that party in their home state.  To the best of my knowledge Senator Sanders was never a registered Democrat.  True, he caucused with the Senate Democrats, but remained an Independent throughout his time in Congress.

              I always wondered if Hillary's trump card (pardon the unintended pun) was for someone on the Rules Committee, at the Democratic National Convention, to point that out and disqualify Sanders then and there.

              It is just hard to imagine either party allowing someone, who was not a registered member of their party, to be their party's standard bearer in a presidential election.

              I seriously would be interested in hearing from someone, in the Democratic Party here, how this works in their party. 

              1. It is actually very simple, civvy.  Vermont doesn't register voters by party ergo that state has no registered democrats or republicans.  After that voters in say colorado are actually electing delegates pledged to support bernie or hillary, etc and they, not their candidate, have to meet rules for delegate selection.  Bernie caucused with us and that was good enough for most voters.   I can make a lot better case for bernie as a democrat than you can for trump as a republican.

                1. Thank you for the explanation.

                  I lived in Texas at one time.  They didn't register you as one party or the other then.  When primaries rolled around, you had to request either a Republican or Democratic ballot.  Still, they had all their main candidates listed as Republican or Democrat.

                  I see Vermont's other U.S. senator, Patrick Leahy is a Democrat, as is their lone congressman, Peter Welch.  Apparently, it is possible for a candidate to run as a Republican or Democrat in Vermont.

                  I don't fault Bernie Sanders for running as an Independent, as Angus King did in Maine.

                  I am just surprised that the DNC was willing to accept someone, who clearly was not a registered Democrat, to be their party's presidential candidate.  Do the party rules really permit that?

                  I cannot help but think if the Democratic super delegates did not block his nomination, some Clinton supporter may have tried to play that card.

                  Obviously, Senator Sanders fits in better with the Democrats.  I have never thought Trump was really a Republican.  He just used the GOP as a means to an end… with a lot of help from the media during the primary season. 

                   

                  1. I find it a bit confusing myself but your texas example seems to govern.  Dnc actually has no real authority on the point because the delegates ultimately set the rules.  Don't forget there are other hybrids like the minnesota Democratic farmer labor party.  For many years, the farmer labor part was the ruling faction but the whole dfl sent delegates to dnc.

  1. NYT has in interesting visual on the election: Two Americas of 2016 

    Mrs. Clinton’s island nation has large atolls and small island chains with liberal cores, like college towns, Native American reservations and areas with black and Hispanic majorities. While the land area is small, the residents here voted for Mrs. Clinton in large enough numbers to make her the winner of the overall popular vote.

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