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January 27, 2009 04:29 PM UTC

Tuesday Open Thread

  • by: Colorado Pols

“Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something.”



46 thoughts on “Tuesday Open Thread

    1. …just wiped out my laser-precise demolition of this crap. But in brief:

      1) The Cato Institute is beyond right wing. Calling them Libertarian is being polite. Most of Think Tank Conservatives who “contribute” here have never worked in Industry, Government or NonProfit – they’re in a world of their own.

      2) Using PowerPoint Clip art does not count as proof. Refuting an established economic tenet because you don’t like it makes you look like an ass-hat.

      3) Right-wing Talk Radio has inflated this idea that “all economists agree the New Deal prolonged the Great Depression.” It’s two Grad students at UCLA. And their research is under fire.

      4) Japan’s Stimulus in the 90’s failed because it was too small, poorly managed and businesses refused to cut costs (esp manpower) to become profitable.

      I’ll be back after my Vet Court meeting at Ft Logan….but c’mon LB. You do better than this!

    2. 1. WWII proved Keynes was right. That was the largest federal stimulus package in history and it ended the Depression.

      2. It’s clear if you look at the data that the New Deal was making progress until 1935 when Roosevelt started to listen to the budget hawks.

      3. The talk of Bush spending somehow proving the Keynes was wrong is either intentionally dishonest or shockingly ignorant. Go look at what Keynes actually said, not what a far-right think tank claims he said.

      I don’t have the time to walk you through all of the reasons why you shouldn’t take this seriously but this should get you started.  

      1. I think that was two, if not three years later, Steve.  But correct.

        The thing to keep in mind about the WWII “stimulus” is that most of built were not things that paid long term dividens like infrastructure.  

        OK, a second point is that that “stimulus” actually started I think in 1939 with the Lend-Lease programs selling armaments to Britain and the Soviet Union. We were already ramped up to a large extent by the time the bombs fell on Pearl Harbor.  

      1. Obviously the chambers need corrective action. If you really feel this way I know the pro-EFCA camp will call on you to engage the chambers, colorado concern, etc.

        They are the only body standing in the way of EFCA being passed. You need to get with brother Rep36 to address this and use your influence to correct the errant chambers who are misguided in their efforts to destroy America’s working class.

        Further, this is obviously an issue that must count on the production score card with Senators Udall and Bennet. I hope you are ready to stand by your ideals in applying the pressure and influence needed to make these Senators vote right on this issue.

    1. On the technology front we fall further behind.

      Yesterday the Senate confirmed to delay the transition to DTV … pissing away billions more in tax dollars so some douche can get the coupon handout.

      Senate Votes to Delay DTV Transition

      Digital TV transition delayed by Senate bill, to give Americans more time to prepare for analog television going dark.

      You want an economic stimulus, screw with their TV. They’ll find a way to fix the problem and the government won’t piss away billions in free coupons. What a freaking scam.

      1. the Devil must be wearing mittens today.

        You can’t stop the effects of reproduction, the immigration war was over before it started. Millions of Mexicans will now use dual citizenship to their economic benefit.-“Junior” Libertad

        Well if they are born here its not really immigration is it?  Don’t like the Constitution Tadpole?  If they’re ‘dual citizens’ wouldn’t it just be as logical to say that Millions of Americans will now use dual citizenship to their economic benefit?  

        What about well-connected foreign-based companies (say ones that relocated to Dubai) pillaging the Treasury, that ‘economic benefit’ you can get behind I suppose?  

        1. … who likely will create millions of new jobs. Hopefully those jobs will be in the U.S. so that we may reap the taxes (and economic lift of their private investment aka capital risk).

          As to Dubai … I assume you are speaking about those Arab princes who invest billions in firms like Citibank (the soon to be bastard bailout poster boy).

          Mark to market was a policy that should have been waived to attain stability; unfortunately Bush and the geniuses in DC decided to bailout (giving them the tax dollars of me and my grandchildren) their sorry asses.

          Live by the market, die by the market. The poor decisions that failed to account for risk should be rewarded with bankruptcy.

          1. those GOP corporate icons who thought so much of the U.S. people (billion$) that they located off shore to hide their assets (while cutting checks to Darth Cheney.

            As a breedee yourself, what have you contributed other than CO2 to our increasing carbon problem?

          2. Libertad’s sometimes right, you guys.

            Plus he has a sense of humor.

            Which makes him 100 times better than Another skeptic.

            In fact I think if Libertad constructed his sentences a little more clearly and talked about a greater variety of things, he could be as respected around here as Laughing Boy or Haners.

            1. that you are giving Libertad a little too much credit in seeing many of us as not getting Libertad simply because of poor sentence structure. Suspect the structure is more like Libertad’s not very successful attempt at sarcasm or irony and maybe we are actually getting Libertad just fine.  

      2. Billions of dollars to spend on transmitter changes, new TV’s, converter boxes.  A stimulus package for off shore (almost all) electronics makers.

        The broadcast industry did not want it.  Why? They had to spend billions on new transmitters.

        Coincidentally – yeah – dumping analog TV freed up a lot of spectrum for cell phones and other uses.

            1. People who switch to cable don’t have to get the little boxes. The cable and satellite TV companies are getting off like bandits in this deal.

              1. but that was generally enough.  Still I broke down and got DirectTV thinking the switch would knock even that off the air (without a converter/new set).  So I am concurring with RSB.  Now I at least get Olbermann and Comedy Central…but overall went from two channels with nothing worthwhile on to 150 channels with nothing worthwhile on.  Oh the humanity!

                1. So it looks like the cable companies are going to be getting even more costumers as people who are unready will be scrambling once the switch occurs.

                  I have a new TV, so I’m going to sick with broadcast. The only reason I’d get cable would be for sports and Stewart/Colbert. I watch the latter on Hulu, and the former I really get enough of as it is.

              2. We just went through this a few months ago.

                The Comcast signals are now all digital.

                There aren’t a whole lot of folks in America that don’t have cable, satellite, or similar.  The people who didn’t get their vitually free converter boxes by now get zero sympathy from me.  Lots of time.  

                1. All of you spendthrift techie addicts make it harder and harder for us people of modest needs and tastes to enjoy our unencumbered simple lives in peace. I don’t want every new gadget, with the usual added monthly fee, but the structure of our shared existance evolves around the assumption that everyone does.

                  1. Every time KDRV fiddles with their new stuff I lose both analog and digital signals on 31 and 2.  So I go for a walk and/or drink.

                    When the change hits some people will lose both channels until August.  No Simpsons until August.  August.

                  2. See my comments on “Follow the money.”

                    OTOH, we are an addicted to TV nation.  And like some other things, the bigger the better.

                    Until I moved back to FL, I didn’t watch TV except during the election returns and 9/11 for many years.  Howz that for politico-geeky? I’d much rather read a book or surf the net.

                    “The vast wasteland,” indeed.  

                    1. I like watching about three or four hours of entertainment TV (and about 4 hours of news TV) per week, but I like getting it for free. This switch isn’t depriving me of that yet, but the end of free broadcast TV is in the cards.

  1. because they’re afraid of EFCA.

    I’m sick of this. Nationalize those fuckers.

    You want credit? Get it from the government.

    You want crazy-ass schemes layering one type of debt over another, which makes you big bucks but only long as nobody asks for their money back? Fuck off.

    1. The Bank of America organized a conference call where business leaders (ha!) were urged to donate to Republican Senate candidates and outside groups working to defeat EFCA. Your ultimate oint is valid, but the bank wasn’t donating bailout money.

      1. it all gets mixed in the corporation’s general fund. (That’s part of the complaint about the bailout: no transparency, no explanation of where any of the money actually went.)

        Think of my headline as a hedge on a credit swap on a bundle of other headlines.

    1. .

      Carter was wrong about pulling troops out of South Korea.  

      And he was probably wrong about something else.

      But overall he was the best leader this country has seen, in my lifetime.  

      My favorite point to make about the guy:

      lots of folks who don’t know any better blame Carter personally for the failure of the Iran hostage rescue effort.  

      Why do they blame him ?

      Because he took responsibility for everything that happened on his watch, even if he did everything right and someone else screwed up.  

      For younger folks who have never seen that in a President, that’s called “leadership” and “accountability.”  

      For contrast, ask who was responsible for Iran-Contra.  

      Not Reagan, and certainly not the guy running it, Poppy Bush.  Reagan saying things like the bombing of the Beirut airport Marine barracks were his responsibility, but then acting as if they weren’t, only magnifies his being unfit for that office.  

      Who was responsible for Abu Ghraib ?  A few bad apples.

      Sorry, but I can’t even type a sentence that has both “responsibility” and “Bubba Clinton” in it.  

      Jimmy Carter was our last adult President.  We may have another one now, but that remains to be seen.  Let’s see who he blames when things get worse, if they do.


  2. Watching Blagojevich being interviewed by Maddow. I gotta say, he performs well. It was stupid to get caught the way he did. But for the most part, politically, he’s really really good. I mean, look at Josh Marshall’s view after seeing it.


    I’ve got no brief for this guy. I’ve said several times, he often strikes me as genuinely clinical. But it’s not clear to me how strong a case they’ve got against this guy.

    I imagine if you’re Rod Blagojevich, that’s exactly the sort of thing you want to hear.

  3. Regarding Sovereign Bank change of C.E.O. after being purchased by a Spanish Bank…. from the Boston Globe:

    “Previously a Santander executive in Brazil, Jaramillo would replace Paul Perrault, who assumed the chief executive job only earlier this month. For his few weeks on the job, Perrault stands to receive a $7.2 million payout under the terms of his contract, a figure compensation consultant Frank Glassner said is “egregious” given that Sovereign is also laying off 8 percent of its workforce.”

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