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July 30, 2016 12:56 AM UTC

Weekend Open Thread

  • by: Colorado Pols

America is already pretty great. Discuss.


81 thoughts on “Weekend Open Thread

  1. America is great because it is the world's  largest and longest-lived democracy.

    There. Now, AC won't get the top meme spot this weekend.

    1. We're actually the second largest democracy, after India. Otherwise, I fully agree. A nation of 310+ million people always will have some ongoing problems, sometimes major, like the 2007-09 financial crisis. But our historic ability to soldier on and solve problems is a hallmark of the nation's greatness. Only a small mind will say that America is not great; or “needs to become great again.” 

  2. Cartoonist Joe Heller nails it!

    “Two Views” by Joe Heller captures the stark contrast between Democratic presidential candidate Hillary Clinton’s message for America and that coming from GOP nominee Donald Trump. Read the words up and down a few times.

    1. @MichealBowman

      I screen printed several copies of the cartoon above that you posted, tacked one to the public bulletin board at the apartment building where I live—it was destroyed within minutes.

      So, I put up a second one and a third…….

      Somebody doesn't like the message. 

      1. Good work!  It appears Drumphuckistan is spreading from the eastern plains into the heart of urban Colorado. <sigh>. I was hoping we could contain the virus. It's like syphillus. With lips. And bad hair.

  3. Here's John McCain's granddaughter's eloquent account of how and why she's decided to support HRC. Wish Senator McCain had her integrity.

    Pretty weak to refuse to attend the convention but continue to support Trump quietly as if that makes it less appalling somehow.  For a real war hero like John McCain, the guy who famously corrected lies about his opponent Barack Obama at a town hall meeting in 2008, to show such a lack of political courage is disheartening. Especially since, at his age, what has he got to lose? There will be no more presidential campaigns for him and probably not even another Senate campaign after this one.

    Wonder what he thinks of his granddaughter's decision to make a real choice and stand by it.

      1. Maybe she should discuss this with her father who is, as far as I know, still among the spineless who try to have it both ways.. disapproving and distancing but refusing to repudiate Trump as their candidate, refusing to say they will absolutely not support or vote for him.

    1. Pressed by Stephanopoulos to name the sacrifices he’d made for his country, Trump said: “I think I've made a lot of sacrifices. I work very, very hard. I've created thousands and thousands of jobs, tens of thousands of jobs, built great structures. I've had tremendous success. I think I've done a lot.”

      If he thinks any of that constitutes sacrifice, much less on the level of sacrificing one's life or one's own son, then his "very good brain" is giving him some really bad info on the definition of the word.  

      He also can't help making insulting remarks about the couple and their culture, suggesting that she wasn't allowed to speak, supposedly because they are Muslim, and suggesting that Mr. Khan was scripted by the HRC campaign.

      But don't hold your breath for Moddy or AC to find any fault with anything their piece of crap candidate said about the parents of a fallen American hero while comparing his "sacrifices" (?) to theirs.

      And after this, if John McCain still won't refuse to support Trump, he is disgrace to himself, his country and the uniform he once wore, past courageous behavior notwithstanding. Honor isn't something you get to keep forever with no maintenance.

    2. Trump is a walking flaming piece of shit. I'm almost at a loss for words. Not quite, but almost.

      I'll start with the assholiest part “If you look at his wife, she was standing there. She had nothing to say. She probably, maybe she wasn't allowed to have anything to say. You tell me.” – Ok I can't start with that one… Too mad.

      Then there's the “Who wrote that? Did Hillary's script writers write it?” after it was reported yesterday that Khan had no speechwriter. That's just Trump using his world-famous asshole stupidity.

      And last, but not least “I think I've made a lot of sacrifices. I work very, very hard. I've created thousands and thousands of jobs, tens of thousands of jobs, built great structures. I've had tremendous success. I think I've done a lot.” Are you fucking kidding me? This idea that jobs are somehow favors bestowed upon communities by gracious Job Creators needs to die a painful death. Companies don't hire because they are doing favor, they hire because they need help. Period.

      1. And how is that a "sacrifice". What's he sacrificing? I can see him considering hiring people to be "contribution" if asked ….what have you "contributed". Never mind his usual modus operandi is to use bankruptcy to avoid paying more than pennies on the dollar of agreed contracts leaving the contractors, subs, small business people and workers screwed while he takes the money and runs. But how is hiring people, even if you pay as promised, a "sacrifice"?

        It's been clear for a long time that his vocabulary is severely limited. Somebody needs to get this man a dictionary to go with the pocket constitution Mr. Khan so generously offered.

        Or not. He'd never use either. Best thing to do is to make sure he gets so decisively kicked to the curb in this election he'll spend the rest of his life tweeting fretfully about it.

        1. I was on the fence about Clinton before the DNC.

          The DNC made me proud to be a Democrat so it put me on the side of the fence with Clinton.

          Trump's dumbfuckery is motivating me to volunteer for Clinton. I don’t just want Trump to lose, I want him to have the most embarrassing loss in political history.

      2. Precisely.  Businessman hire more help to make more money.  That is an opportunity, not a sacrifice.  Of course, it was quite a sacrifice to dodge the draft.  He had to sacrifice his honor.  Well, maybe he had none to begin with.  

      3. Khan not only wrote his own speech but he was on CNN's State of Union and gave the version he drafted before his wife went over it and toned it down a bit.

        1. So he not only allows his wife to speak, he takes her advice? I'm sure that's not what Trump was hearing from the people saying stuff he referred to. You know… the "experts" he listens to along with his own "good brain” and the lots of things ("I've said a lot of things") he's said himself.

          There is no other word for the GOP pols who are still going to vote for Trump other than "traitor". And that goes double for someone like John McCain. 

            1. yes

              Interesting that Trump says Khan has no right to criticize him. I thought we all have the right to criticize whomever we damn well want to criticize.

              Guess he didn't take Mr. Khan up on that offer to lend him his pocket constitution.

    3. In case Donald is interested Mrs. Khan did speak out quite publicly on Lawrence O'Donnell's MSNBC show.  But never mind. One of the reasons he gave for his comments was that it wasn't just him. A lot of people are saying things. So here we have Trump's information sources…. his own "very good brain" and things people who may or may not know what they're talking about (I'm being kind here. They don't) are saying.

      Back in the world of fact checked reality….

      Ghazala did have something to say when the couple were interviewed by MSNBC's Lawrence O'Donnell.

      O'DONNELL: You were very nervous about going to the convention and actually were reluctant, didn't really want to go out on the stage and especially didn't want to speak because you would not be able to keep your composure and I have to say, I'm just like you. I don't think I would have been able to do what your husband did out there last night.

      How do you feel now about having gone to the convention and gone out on stage and seen what an impact it's had?

      GHAZALA KHAN: First of all, I thank all America who listened from their heart to my husband's and my heart, and I'm so grateful for that. And it was very nervous because I cannot see my son's picture, and I cannot even come in the room where his pictures are. That's why when I saw the picture at my back I couldn't take it, and I controlled myself at that time. So, it is very hard.

      I know the feeling. I couldn’t speak at my brother’s memorial. My husband, his dear friend, had to speak for us both. As I watched her that’s what I felt. That she was trying her best to maintain her composure while out there in public.

      Of course a narcissist and sociopath wouldn’t understand being too moved by strong emotions for an adored loved one to be able to speak without totally losing it. He isn’t capable of that kind of feeling and can’t imagine it in others.

      1. Well said BlueCat. The idea that there are people who don't want to bathe in the spotlight and say "Look at me! I'm amazing!" is foreign to him and foreign things are scary to Trump.

    4. First Trump disparages John McCain … now this.

      Donald Trump is hopeless. What amazes me is how many Republicans are willing to sacrifice their own honor, and that of their party, by not condemning him.

      It is hard to believe that any candidate of a major political party would ever disparage the mother and father of a slain U.S. soldier. But now it has happened.

  4. I don't think Trump's questioning of the Gold Star family is QUITE as obnoxious as his mocking display of a person with a disability – but it is close.

    1. Are you kidding? What's even more shocking than what he did say about the Khans is what he didn't say. Where was any expression of respect for an American hero's courageous service and sacrifice or compassion for his family?

      As obnoxious as his mocking of a disabled reporter was this is far beyond obnoxious. It's pathological. He's incapable of seeing anything from any point of view other than his own egotism. There is something seriously, clinically wrong with this man. There's a void where his basic humanity should be.

      What's really disgraceful is the silence so far from the GOP.  For decades they've been strutting and posturing as the party with the corner on being the most patriotic, troop supporting, American military hero revering, red white and blue blooded of all Americans.

      So where is the outrage? Where is the denunciation of Trump's complete dismissal of an American soldier who bravely sacrificed his own life in Trump's rush to defend himself by launching attacks on the grieving gold star family, the heartbroken mother, the unbearably pained, passionate but so eloquent and dignified father? How can Republican leaders be such spineless hypocrites? 

      We all know that Republican pols would be exploding all across every media platform by now if a Dem presidential candidate had reacted the way Trump has. Guess they've decided he's their sociopath now and they'll just have to suck it up no matter to what depths he drags them.

      They disgrace us all.

      I hope the Khans know that they have the respect, admiration and gratitude of the rest of us.  And our sincerest condolences and sorrow for their great loss.

  5. Keep talking about it to everyone who mentions Drumph's name, and hope they pass it along. Hating on fallen soldiers is an unforgivable sin to Republicans. Every little pebble we can pile on will help crush him in the autumn.

    1. Skinny, you've birthed a new word for me, thanks to your use of 'ph' as opposed to 'f' at the end of 'Drumph': Drumphuckistan.  

      The failed 51st-state movement is going national with its new leader!!

      1. Trump didn't even win Drumphuckistan. Cruz did. In Weld County, Trump got only 19% of the R vote. In spite of the big signs and the corny website, most people up here, as far as I can tell from my limited sample*, don't support him. They may vote R for the whole ticket in November, but I doubt it.

        I was at  the little convenience store in Roggen yesterday, and tried talking about the big Trump signs. One of the cashiers, an Asian couple who clearly haven't been speaking English very long, asked incredulously: "You support Trump?"

        I laughed and protested, "Oh, no, not me." Most people in line behind me laughed, some grim and ironic, but nobody was like, "Yeah, that's our next President, buddy!"

        From which I optimistically conclude that a) business is business, b) people are polite to strangers here, and c) support for Trump, even in the heart of Dumphuckistan, is neither deep nor wide.

        * I mostly talk with teachers, and teachers lean Democratic.

        1. The question in November will be whether their love for country trumps their hate for Hillary. Will it translate to votes for Drumph or will their be historic under-voting. From what I hear it seems to be the latter. 

          1. I concur. I met some libertarian cannabis entrepenuer / investors last night who are going for Gary Johnston – I guess he's pretty pro-cannabis. He'll probably get as high a percentage of the votes as Jill Stein of the Greens – somewhere between 5-10% is my guess.

            I haven't been paying attention to HRC's cannabis positions,  but I haven't heard anything like  support for descheduling or Federal legalization.

            1. Bernie had the most sane position on cannabis: end all federal prohibition. Hillary's position is more nuanced: it appears she's for *re* scheduling marijuana (the BigPharma play) and *de* scheduling industrial hemp (good for my issues).  Given that 80% of people who switch to cannabis for pain medication never return to their prescription pain killers, BigPharma isn't going to go away quietly (or at all).  Prepare for Pharma dollars to blanket Capitol Hill when the issue of ending Prohibition finally makes it to committee hearing

              Congressman Polis is a real champion on these issues (as it Perlmutter on the banking concerns).  All-in-all, with the exception of Lamborn, we have Colorado's entire delegation on board The Industrial Hemp Farming Act  (S.134 and H.R. 525)

          2. I've been encouraging my young libertarian minded friends to vote Johnson.  I tell them if he gets 15% of the vote, the libertarian party gets better standing in the state of Colorado.  (Not entirely sure that that's true, but the young men like the idea and nod along with me.)

            And a vote for Johnson is  a vote not for the Trumpstadumpsta.

              1. I like Gary Johnson. I'm also reminded of the fiasco in 2000 when Ralph Nader's Ego; the Green Party candidate; pulled enough votes in Florida to hand that state and the election to G.W. Bush. So, if Johnson and Stein pull enough votes away from Clinton to hand the election to Trump………….

                While I'm at it, Jill Stein is no more qualified to be president than is Donald Trump. People need to vote their brains more than their emotions in this election.

                1. Many, including me, seem to agree with you about Stein who barely registers in most polls. She has nothing in her resume that demonstrates any qualifications for the job. Your Libertarian polls higher. But of course the real choice is only between Trump and HRC.

                  Voting third party only makes sense if you really think a Trump presidency wouldn't be any worse than an HRC presidency. Only in that case does not making an affirmative choice between them and voting to make a statement instead make sense.

                  Certainly, as you say, that was the view of Nader voters. They felt they might as well vote for Nader, knowing he couldn't possibly win, because Gore and GW were equally bad choices, one no better than the other. 

                  I personally think that any intelligent, well informed person interested in learning what he or she needs to learn to do the job and with a personality profile somewhere near the normal range, even one with with whom I disagree on most issues, couldn't be anywhere near as disastrous for our country and for the world as Trump.  

                  As a liberal Dem I naturally prefer HRC's policy positions, many or most of which you probably don't. All that aside I have no doubt she'll be a competent President and no doubt Trump is an unthinkable alternative.  

                  You must do as you see fit. 

                  1. B.C.:  I took a Fox News online survey over this past Memorial Day weekend. It measured where my views are; compared to all five then presidential candidates; on a wide range of issues. I lined up 84% with Johnson and 76% with Hillary. Trump was dead last around 50%. I don't consider Hillary to be a "liberal" altho she has been pulled to the left by Bernie. I view her as more of a centrist and thus, will likely have my vote in November.

                    1. Glad to hear it. I'm pretty sure that prior to HRC's moving to the left under pressure from the base I probably wouldn't have lined up with her much better than that and I still would have voted for her. And single digit points more or less difference in agreement level doesn’t seem like a good enough reason to vote third party in this election does it?  wink

                    2. “I don't consider Hillary to be a "liberal”"

                      You are certainly not alone there, CHB. And there are many, including yours truly, who wonder how long her slide into the left of center will last.

      2. yes You're welcome, Michael. Maybe we could have posters or T-shirts-made, but in union shops in the USA, not whatever impoverished country he has his done in at pennies a day to the slaves, er, employees.

        1. He also pushed back against accusations that Trump’s proposal to ban Muslims from entering the country is bigoted.

          "Millions of Americans are in favor of that policy,” the senator said.


          Rejecting someone, denying someone the same things you freely allow others, merely on the basis of their, in this case, expression of religion . . .

          . . . well, no siree, that's not at all bigoted [so long as there's a few million other bigots who concur with that bigotry] . . .

          It's almost too easy to blame this stupendous bit of Klanish circular logic on Session's locale, environment, or upbringing . . .

           Me?  I just think he's just an evil Drumpfphucker.


          1. Sounds like Trump's …"lots of people are saying".  Kind of a loop going on there. Keep feeding people garbage and then cite the fact that lots of your supporters are repeating the garbage to support your garbage.

            On this one Team Trump is distinctly in the minority and every tweet makes it worse. Now the Gold Star Mothers have expressed their outrage.

            What Team Trump doesn't get is that this isn't about Trump's stand on Muslim immigrants or refugees any more. It's about his attacks on a Gold Star family, his offensive insults, implying that the mother was a downtrodden victim of Muslim culture not allowed to speak and the father was parroting words written for him by the DNC. It's about his only belatedly remembering (not until late Saturday) to say anything at all about their son's sacrifice and then obviously only as a response to the outrage

            Every time he  or his spokespersons defend him on the basis of terrorism they seem more clueless, heartless and disrespectful.

            As for McCain, he's come out with a strong statement but still has not refused to support Trump. Like most of his party he wants to have it both ways. Look how outraged I am but not outraged enough to do more than posture.

            It's exactly that kind of hypocrisy and cowardice that, along with a media in love with Trump generated ratings starting well over a year ago, got us to the point where this loon who speaks at a 6th grade reading level at best (read the transcript of his interview with Stephanopoulos) and knows nothing about international affairs, alliances or recent history (read same interview) is the only choice Republicans who deplore HRC have.

            The 21st century GOP,  at the natural end point of the hate and fear mongering us/them southern strategy, deserves to be destroyed and let's hope Trump is just the guy we need to do it.


            1. That Stephanopolous interview was a beaut . . . 

              . . . the fact that Trump had to be corrected about his good buddy Putin not already being in the Ukraine??? WTF???

              Had any other candidate for office, and by that I mean any other candidate for House or Senate — and probably also any other state candidate for office — expressed that same ignorance, he would've stuck the done-fork in himself. But, because Drumpf is already embroiled in much bigger stupidities, this international stupidity doesn't even hardly get reported.  AND, the other enablers in the Drumpfpublican party just nod, and agree, and try to spin that what he really said and what he meant was not what he meant or said . . . 

              . . . Fuckface Von Clownstick, indeed!

              1. And Trump still didn't understand. When George (so much easier to type) said that he (meaning Putin) was there already Trump answered something like… he might be but I'm not. Did he think George was just saying Putin was "there" in terms of wanting to invade Ukraine and was Trump saying he wasn't "there" in terms of agreeing yet? Was he saying he wouldn't, at some future time, allow it and that's why Putin would never invade Ukraine?

                I doubt it. Just trying to cover for having no idea WTF is going on in the world. He certainly didn't seem to understand that it was too late to claim Russia was absolutely not (mark it down) going into Ukraine since they had already done just that.

                  1. Most of his ill-informed blatherings will just become background noise, especially when weighed against his disparaging of a Gold star family. That one ain't goin' away. It's gonna dog him right into November. 

        2. Sessions pointed out that Trump had also praised the couple and their son for their sacrifice.

          Not until late Saturday. He said nothing of the kind in his initial reaction before the storm of criticism.

    2. The Khans certainly don't plan to stop talking about it or demanding responses from GOP leadership. Oh, Saturday night after the firestorm of criticism Trump finally remembered to call their son a hero. They aren't buying it. Wisely, they're taking his first response as the defining one. So should we all.–that-defines-him/2016/07/31/450f78dc-56d6-11e6-b7de-dfe509430c39_story.html

        1. It's no secret revelation Drumpf has been a POS his entire life. It's just now the GOPhuckers have chosen the POS lead them . . . a pox on them all, every one!

  6. I will give Paul Manafort no more than two weeks before he leaves the Trump campaign…bets?
    how much is Trump paying him to squirm like that?

    1. Not taking that bet. Not with all of his connections to Putin's Ukrainian puppet.

      And while it's still too early for extent of DNC convention bump to be fully apparent in polls I offer these taken over a period ending yesterday the 30th for AC's enjoyment.

      General Election: Trump vs. Clinton PPP (D)
      Clinton 50, Trump 45
      Clinton +5

      General Election: Trump vs. Clinton vs. Johnson vs. Stein PPP (D) Clinton 46, Trump 41, Johnson 6, Stein 2
      Clinton +5

      President Obama Job Approval PPP (D)
      Approve 50, Disapprove 47
      Approve +3

      President Obama Job Approval Gallup
      Approve 53, Disapprove 43
      Approve +10

    2. I see Manafort as Trump's Machiavelli, whispering in his ear. 

      And I think that this is the big play for Manafort. If he somehow gets Trump elected, he's set for life. Russian oligarchs will see that he retires a very wealthy man.

      1. Fascinating it is, to watch the twists and turns in this "made for TV" screenplay. It is looking more and more as though Manafort may turn out to be Trumps' Dick Cheney…Big Oil money may be, to a large degree, driving this as the struggle over energy dominance in Europe, and the world for that matter, is a mighty one, with very big players. …including a few Russian oligarchs, among other stakeholders.

        What is the one thing keeping Putin from running roughshod over his neighbors without restraint?….NATO.

  7. "America is already pretty great"?  Not according to Chuck Plunkett in today
    's Denver Post:  "But overwhelmingly, these are dark days.  Even while Colorado and our country have so much going for them, these are dark days."

    Just like when he praised Cory Gardner for having applauded immigration reform while voting against immigration reform, Plunkett seems unable to hold a consistent position, even in the same sentence.  Along with today's farewell column by Woody Paige who is leaving for the CO Springs Gazette of all places, the physical downsizing of the paper, and the installation of a pathetic editorial page editor such as Plunkett,  the Denver Post is disappearing before our eyes.

    1. the Problem with Plunkett is that he has 2 audiences reading his Op-Eds: general newspaper readers who expect and deserve the truth and facts, and Tea Party Radicals who reject facts, science, data, history, and common sense. 

      "America is already pretty great" is for the former. It must be true, even according to all the "principles" and "logic" among those on the far right who concurrently hold that Obama and Democrats and Libtards have been "ruining" the country since the great progressive advances of the early 20th century. (Even though those advances are in reality the very things that made us great in the first place.)

      "But overwhelmingly, these are dark days.  Even while Colorado and our country have so much going for them, these are dark days." is the world view of Chuck's team, even though most data and every day reality are far from that vision. This feeds the fear that allows them to demonize the other side. His use of "overwhelmingly"  is pure bullshit and his repetition of "dark days" is Yellow Journalism and its finest.

      And he has to say the latter because that part of his audience see the editorial for the minute it takes to read (if they can), but they'll listen to full-time hate, fear, and lies on the radio for many hours every day, and if he dare try to refudiate that world view he'll be looking for a new job soon thereafter.



  8. And now Josh Marshall is also speculating that the Dumpsta is going to try to get out of debating HRC.  Everybody knows she'd wipe the floor with him, then hold him down with the pointy ends of her little high heels. 

    Hey Moddy and AC, if your guy is afraid to stand up to HRC, how's he going handle Angela Merkel?  Call on Vlad the disrober for back up?

    1. James Dobson told one of the fundie preachers in PA that he knows the man who brought the Donald to Jesus. I wonder if it was Paul Manafort who showed him Vladimir Putin's soul.

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