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November 10, 2008 04:38 PM UTC

Monday Open Thread

  • by: Colorado Pols

“It is more difficult to organize a peace than to win a war.”



73 thoughts on “Monday Open Thread

    1. Al Franken has cut Coleman’s lead from over 700 to 204. A lot of people think that Franken is going to pull this one out.  Not the drama of the Presidential race but still fun to watch this one play out

    2. I’m thrilled the election is over and I can sleep nights.  Right up until the end the stress of worrying that somehow, someway this was going to get away from us was hard to take.  I got up on Saturday with no canvassing or calling to do and later watched  some TV without endless mean political ads.  

      If you miss all the work, Dave, contact your HD Chair.  The party at lowly grassroots level always needs volunteers, especially during the less exciting times.  There are also advocacy groups you can volunteer for and  congressional candidates with their two year terms are always in campaign mode.  It’s not as  glamorous as electing a President but it keeps you in the game and hangin with great people.

  1. This morning I was thinking how nice it is that the cacaphony of trash commercials against Udall, Obama; and the trash commericials (including the imported California actors) supporting the anti-working families initiatives are now gone.

  2. Years ago, it was the thirteen ounce pound of coffee.  Now the deceit is rampant.  Faced with increasing costs, the big food companies are reducing contents without reducing the appearance of the container!

    Skippy peanut butter now puts a huge dimple on the bottom of the jar so that the new 16 oz looks exactly the same as the old 18 oz. When asked, Unilever just says that the weight is clearly labeled.  Kellog is reducing the depth, but not the front area of its cereal boxes, toilet paper is narrower.  This kind of shit is no different than putting the bad strawberries on the bottom of the box.

    There are two things that really bother me about this trend. It’s not that the jar of Skippy has less in it, it’s the intentional deceipt.  Also, they can only do this once.  As is so typical of American companies, they look at the next quarter’s profits only.  I guess a third thing is now the amount of plastic used goes up as the actual content goes down.  So, make the frickin’ jar smaller!  

    It’s not just Skippy; read about it here:

  3. Bill Owens appointed someone all sides said did a great job as Secretary of State, Donetta Davidson. Owens did not need a blue ribbon committee. He just found a good person for the job.

    When he appointed Suthers AG he again made the decision without benefit of a committee.

    Finally, when he made a purely political decision and made Coffman SOS he stepped up and made the decision.  Bill Owens understood that one of the jobs of a Governor is to make decisions not appoint committees. Every statewide vacancy appointment he made earned the support of the voters at the next election.  

    I still predict that the Committee will nominate two or three of their own members for the job.The Governor will select the talented and able Rico Munn to be SOS.

      1. You are right Coffman was not appointed.

        The other two Davidson as SOS and Suthers as AG were appointments by Owens widely praised and affirmed by the voters without benefit of a selection committee.

        There is nothing to stop the advisory committee on the appointment of a new SOS from nominating one, two or three of their own members. Look at the make up and at least six if not all seven members would love the job of SOS. If Ritter was going to name a known politician such as Gordon, Romanoff or Fitz-Gerald he would have just done so without messing around. My guess is Rico Munn gets the nod and my second choice is now Tom Downey. Unless of course Bob can produce statements saying they are not eligible due to being on this committee.

        Owens left office with a 62% approval rating because he understood that one of the things he was elected to do was actually make decisions.  

        1. the advisory committee from making complete idiots out of themselves other than the fact that they aren’t complete idiots. And the fact that Ritter isn’t bound to abide by their recs if they did double cross him and try to promote themselves.  And that’s enough. You’re “guess” is a dumb guess.

          But I tell you what: I’ll bet you $100 that Munn is not appointed SOS.  We’ll each let David T hold the C-note then when the appoint is made, the winner gets the $200. Deal?

          1. I pick Rico Munn.

            Who is your pick Bob?

            If the Governor selects neither than the money goes to the United Way.  

            If you cannot trust a complete stranger with your money who can you trust?

            1. You are so certain he will ber and devoid of fact or lopgic to support that ludicrous claim , that I’m not at all adverse to taking your money. But only if you agree to let David or some trusty party hold the cash in escrow. Otherwise, I’d never put my cash in the hands of somebody who uses a Porky’s signin to compenhsate for a small penis!

                1. Come on Bob you think I will take one person when you have the field?  Come on Bob if you are so certain it is not going to be Rico make a pick. I am sure if we are both wrong the United Way can use the money at holiday time.

                  Or, tell you what you pick two and I pick two you can go first.

                  BTW how do you feel about the Governor selecting a Committee instead of just making the decision on his own?

                  1. Here’s the bet: $100 says it won’t be anybody from the scrteening committee because you are the onhly one stupid enough to think any one of them would violate the gov’s trust and then expect to get an apppointment from him.  But I have to see the color of your money first!

      2. I will take one of the seven members of the Committee to be the next SOS and you can have any other seven. Just list them here. If none of the 14 we guessed make it the United Way gets $200.  I would say they could use the money for the holiday season but it may be Spring before this Governor gets around to making a decision.  

        1. I don’t want your money going to united way, I want it in my pocket! Only a total idiot would bet oane of the the screening committee being chosen and youy’re the closest I’ve found to such an idiot. Back up your idiocy or back down. Show me the money or shut up!  

          1. You have seven chances to win.  Just list your favorites here and if one pans out you get $100.

            I still say Rico Munn. Bob you are the one with all the inside information.  

              1. My guess is that you are not so sure about who will actually be appointed and are afraid to take a chance. I am happy to bet and would have sent the check to David Thi today.  You are the most respected correspondent at the State Capital and you could not pick the next SOS even if given seven chances?SOS.  I am sorry we are not going to bet as I figured the best case would be we are both wrong and the United Way would win.

                I still say it is Rico Munn. Rico is ambitious, has done a great job at DORA and is a favorite of the Governor.  

                    1. My diabetes has been acting up and blood sugar bouncing across the board.   Sometimes that triggers fatigue and abruptness. OF course, too much sex has the same result…;-)

    1. Why is your nose so out of joint about this SOS committee?  I can’t fanthom anyone caring so much about it.  So what if Ritter picks someone recommended by a committee?  So what if he doesn’t?  Why in H-E-double-hockey-sticks do you care so much about this pedestrian procedural issue?

    1. Spike Lee can be hit or miss for me — and that one seemed, at first, like it was going to be better than it was, but I thought it fell flat.

      You’ll get no argument about Clive Owen being a fine actor, though. My favorite of his is Children of Men. But, hey, I’ve had friends disagree and tell me they didn’t especially like that film or thought the end was cheesy (which I can buy). The dystopian future vision that the director Alfonso CuarГіn presented held my interest, though. Great Michael Caine role, too:

  4. First off, I’m sorry I had to miss the drinking binge – but I’ll explain why now.

    Last week, thru a friend who’s a post commander of the VFW, I found out about an Iraq vet who’s in jail in Jeffco for DWI/Failure to Appear. He’s homeless, living out of his car, and he’s got (from my experience in the DAV) PTSD.

    He’s never gone to the VA for help, since he was part of the wave of soldiers who got screwed by Fort Carson command during the 2005-2007 “you’re faking your PTSD” regime. When he got out, he thought that the VA could care less about him, since he wasn’t “really hurt.”

    He drinks to make the nightmares and flashbacks go away….all the time. So it was inevitable that he got popped for DWI, and then missed a court date. Later in the week, when he showed up on his own, they arrested him in the courtroom.

    There’s some bad things going on with the Jeffco DA, and now that we’ve got him a real lawyer, I think we’ll be able to get him out of jail and into a VA treatment program.

    What sucks is there’s TENS OF THOUSANDS of kids like him. They’ve fallen thru the gap between separation and awarding of benefits, because dirtbag Jim Nicholson was too busy playing GOP fundraiser to run the VA, and the current VA secretary is a Repub  ‘tard who at least as been smart enough to ask the service organizations for help.

    I know that the Obama Admin #1 job is the economy, but I’d submit #2 is taking care of this avalanche of wounded warriors that’s about to overwhelm the VA, and start showing up in places other than Colorado Springs.  

    This kid got out in Colorado so he could go to school, thinking that being in “the World” would be enough to fix his nightmares and anger attacks.  He’s not the first – there’s going to more here in Metro Denver just like him.

    1. Back about 1997-8.

      I was under the disillutionment for a number of years that the worst of vet PTSD was over.  The real bad cases had killed themselves (and/or families)or gotten some help.  In another decade or two they would be dying naturally.

      Then came Iraq.  And as I predicted, this war is apparently even worse than VN in creating PTSD vets.

      As Polsters who have been around longer than you Dan know that I am a self-described 90% pacifist.  But my blood boils when I see both the human destruction of the Iraq War and then the way this “pro vet” administration shits on the men and women who did what they thought was the right thing.  I do not agree why they were there, but they deserve justice.  

      1. It’s already started in Colorado Springs, and provided Denver will sign on, we should get them up and running soon.

        Part of the problem belongs to the Deserter President, but part of it is the kids coming back. Not that they don’t (eventually) figure out they need help, but the fact (right or wrong) that they think no one else but OIF/OEF vets understand their problem.

        When they go to the VA for the first time, and they talk to the front-line folks who aren’t their age and have their experiences, they automatically assume that there’s no one that’s going to help them.

        The VA is making an effort to hire OIF/OEF vets to man the doors from now on, but we’ve got a three-year backlog.  

        1. But there are vast differences.

          My grandmother was an Army Nurse in WWII and in the 60’s, after her children were in high school, she went back and worked for the VA.  Having worked in a Pysch ward in WWII that was filled mostly with Pacific vets, she was very protective of the the mental health of the vets.

          When I was about 20 I remember having a conversation about Vets with my grandma.  I had some incomplete views about war and vets.

          She said “War breaks men.” (I will paraphrase the rest, but I remember that line specifically) ‘You may not see it, but the people who actually fight, not just the ones who wear the uniform, but the ones who have to kill or are under constant threat of being killed, or are wounded: they break.’

          ‘However you can put them back together.’

          She went on to explain the difference between Vietnam and WWII.

          1. The number of men in uniform– about 14% of the population was in uniform during WWII. The broad militarization led to a real understanding of the sacrifice of combat troops.

          2. The time between combat and civilian life–In WWII troops did peaceful occupation duty or were in a hospital for months before they spent a month on a transport getting back to the states–this gave them time to process their experience.  In vietnam, troops would go from combat to a civilian on the street in practically 2 weeks.

          3. Jobs–When soldiers returned from WWII they were plugged in to a system that gave them rigid heirarchies that gave men used to structure a familiar system.  This wasn’t the case in Vietnam.

          4. Morality/popularity of the war–together with the lack of broad participation in uniform, this allowed non vets to villianize vets in vietnam.

          5. Voluteer v. consript–though there was consription in WWII, the vast majority of men in uniform (and all women) were voluteers.  Even amongst the draftees there was great support for the military itself. (My great uncle was a 1940 draftee who then went OCS after the war started and served in the all volunteer 82nd–KIA at Anzio).

          I have mentioned before how my grandfather (also in the 82nd-otherside of my family-weird coincidence) went off the rails during vietnam.  Although he reintegrated for 25 years after WWII, I think the images on TV and the treatment of the vets drove him into the bottle.  This leads me to believe our vet problem is bigger than the current generation of vets–we also have to deal with VN vets that are at a transitional age (55-65)who are vulnerable to problems as well.

          I am willing to try everything humanly possible to help these men.  

          1. During my internship at the VA hospital I asked the obvious, “Why so few after WWII and Korea and so many after VN?” The explanation was similar: Weeks to decompress on troop ships, swap stories, therapeutically lie to each other.

            I lived with a black guy from 1981-1993. I had no idea what PTSD was when I met him.  After enough time (and advancing wisdom!) I came to understand what he had witnessed and gone through.  Why he drank and drugged so much.  

            A couple of years ago he finally went to the VA.  Ironically it used to be 1/2 block from where we lived.  He’s doing great, doesn’t drink, and gives all praises to the VA.

            OTOH, I heard recently of an Iraq vet who killed himself the day before his wedding.  His fiancee was so distressed, she killed herself.  

            I hold all those deaths on the shoulders of George Bush.  

  5. I think Obama has a somewhat better than 3-1 chance of becoming President at this point.

    2010: Colorado Governor –

    Tancredo: 15-1. No higher. Doesn’t matter who else is running.

  6. http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes

    Interesting article if only for the reasons it lists as to why he chose to step down.

    Mr. Dean’s decision not to seek a second-term was expected after the victory of a Democrat, Barack Obama, in the presidential election last week. New presidents typically install their own leaders of their political party.

    Beyond that, Mr. Dean’s advisers said he had little interest in being party chairman with a Democratic president in the White House, if only because, historically, the power and visibility of a party chairman is substantially diminished in such circumstances, when much of the political power goes to the White House political director.

    Three cheers for Governor Dean! He was the finest Chair the Democrats have seen for a long time, and he was definitely the leader of the party in the years leading up to this historic election.

    I think I speak for many when I say that I wish him well in all he does–whether in government again, or in a return to private life.

      1. were planted by him in 2004 and nurtured throughout his tenure.The Clinton/McCauliffe/DLC wing of the party sneered at the whole idea of a 50 state strategy.  We were supposed to just stick to the same old map and manage to add Florida or Ohio, get that narrow win and try to govern with it.  Wonder what Dean will be doing next.  

            1. besides just California, and the 50 state strategy got him close enough in others to force McCain to spend money all over the place. It gave him a huge electoral win, a substantial popular vote win and the credibility that comes from  winning in states in every region, north, south, east and west.  

              The Republicans are admitting that he won a decisive victory and many are at least talking about working together, making the present situation very unlike the aftermath of  Clinton’s 43% percent popular vote plurality in ’92, which they used to justify an over the top attack frenzy that started before Clinton even took office and never let up.    

              Obama’s 53% win, including healthier numbers of voters in some southern and western states he DIDN’T win, improves his standing to govern. That’s the result of the 50 state strategy.

          1. The reality of a campaign is you only have so much cash and time.  The 50-state strategy is a long-term change in party activity, promoting the party everywhere because what we’re selling is worth buying no matter where you are.  A Presidential candidate doesn’t have the luxury of continuing that strategy where (s)he’d have to expend too many resources to expect returns.

  7. The margin in Minnesota’s unresolved

    Senate race between Republican Norm Coleman and Democrat Al Franken

    has gotten tighter.

    The latest figures reported to the secretary of state give

    incumbent Coleman a lead over Franken of only 204 votes Monday


    That’s down 17 votes from the margin reported last week in tallies

    that are still considered unofficial. The difference of only about

    one-hundredth of 1 percent between the two candidates will trigger

    an automatic recount next week.

    Officials in Minnesota’s 87 counties are meeting to certify



        1. According to the Minnesota Secretary of State’s office, the state does not have provisional ballots and all absentee ballots had to arrive on or before Election Day to be counted.

          So it is all counties rechecking their totals that is changing the numbers. Not recounting, just doing the math again. 100 of the closing gap was due to an error in once prescient where 124 votes was entered as 24 votes on election night.

            1. just that it usually doesn’t need to, since issues are resolved by registering officially that day. I think there is some very small number of them, from what I’d heard.

    1. What possible reason could I have for wanting to see it larger?

      Sarah Palin was never quite as hot as Tina Fey made her look, but I do believe that’s the ugliest caricature of her I’ve ever seen.

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