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February 08, 2013 06:12 AM UTC

Open Line Friday!

  • 38 Comments
  • by: Colorado Pols

"Why is a citizen asking the president of the United States if her mother can have a medical procedure? Sometimes I think I'm the only one who thinks that's obscene."

–Rush Limbaugh, yesterday

Comments

38 thoughts on “Open Line Friday!

    1. "Why can't a bloviating, drug addled, millionaire coerce his housekeeper into illegally suppply his synthetic heroin habit as part of her employment? Sometimes I think I'm the only one who thinks that's the American way?"

      –Rush Limbaugh, back in the day

  1. There's a lot of items that lead to the stark divide in politics today. But I think one of the biggest may be…

    When the Democratic party embraced civil rights, the southern bigots left the party and were welcomed with open arms by the Republican party. This made the Democratic party more liberal and the Republican party more conservative.

    The Democratic party first went strongly left now that the constraint of Southern Democrats was removed. This was our party's years in the wilderness. And during this same time the Republican party became a bit more conservative due to the influx of the Souther bigots, but the moderates retained control (mostly) and moderate Republicans remained in the party.

    But at the same time the Democratic party started moving back to the middle, the conservatives in the Republican party made a concerted effort to gain control of the party. With the Republican party dominating politics, they saw room to move significantly right-ward and retain the majority.

    As the 2 parties both shifted right-ward, moderate Republicans started moving to independent and then to the Democratic party. In the course of this the two parties became much more ideologically consistent. And as that ideological consistency became more pronounced, it drove more people to switch (many to independent) and that creates a reinforcing cycle.

    Which gives us the present situation, which appears to be pretty stable.

    The Republicans are trying to figure out how to moderate as little as possible to get to 50%+1 of the vote. And they will win often enough, or come close enough, that the base will probably continue to demand ideological purity for some time. Getting beat by a lot makes one rethink things. Losing by 2% let's you blame tactics instead of strategy.

    The Democrats are mostly continuing what has worked so far as demographics point to more Democrats and fewer Republicans as years go on. So the existing system works for them.

    The only losers in this are the people. One party rule is inherently corrupt. Our Democratic leaders don't have the best answer to every problem. And gridlock that excludes any action is very damaging in a recession.

    1. Sorry, but I don't remember the part where "The Democratic party first went strongly left now that the constraint of Southern Democrats was removed."

      Do you have any examples of left-wingism in the Democratic Party?

      The Democratic Party took us into the Vietnam War. Lyndon B Johnson was the last president who expanded the safety net until Obama succeeded in pushing through health care reforms. You could argue that Obamacare is the "Private Insurance Industry Protection Act", as it locks in that 30% tithe.

      You can' look at the wealth distribution in the Country, which has been going downhill for 40 years and say the Democratic Party took a turn to the left.

      1. Do you have any examples of left-wingism in the Democratic Party?

         

        Well, yes, in the period after Vietnam, the Democrats moved rather strongly to the left, especially on foreign policy.  The Church Committee's attacks on the CIA are one example of things going too far.  It wasn't just my opinion and David's that the party had gone too far — the Democratic Leadership Council was a response to that phenomenon.   Bill Clinton and Al Gore, DLC protypes, brought the party back to the center.

         

        1. The Democratic Party has NEVER EVER been leftist on foreign policy. Defense of Empire has been a bipartisan bedrock. The Liebermann wing and conservative labor always dominated the Party from before to after the Vietnam war and the 1960s protests. The Dirty Fuckin' Hippies may have had a cultural impact on America, but never had much political impact.

          Democratic and Republican presidents alike pursued an extremist, reactionary, "un-American" foreign policy. The CIA was running around assassinating foreign leaders in Africa, overthrowing democratically elected leaders (notably in Iran), but also in South America.

          More recently, the Democratic Party mostly voted with the Republicans to support Dick Cheney's invasion of Iraq. Fool me once, fool me twice, fool me thrice… what kind of fool am I?

          On what planet would you call Church Committee's attempts to investigat and maybe reign in this out-of-control Foreign Policy leftist? Is it leftist to follow normal, civilized behavior in the world community? Even if you are an ideological Conservative, you can see how utterly STUPID the Iranian policy has been. Remember the famous quote about Chickens coming home

          Not that it had any impact on Republican war-mongering. Saint Ronnie the senile deals with Iran to trade drugs for weapons to ship to the death squads in Nicaragua. Are conservatives un-American or just dictatorship-lovers?

        2. Maybe we have a failure of definitions.

          Liberal does not mean Leftist.

          Liberals may believe in the social safety net, creating opportunities for economic and social mobility, like public education, universal health care, and public goods like the internet and the federal highway system, but that isn't leftist.

        3. So the Chruch Committee's investigation that found illegal activity by the CIA, including attempted assinations of foreign leaders, much of it still classified, is "one example of things going too far"? It is "left-wing" to investigate illegal activity? And that left-winger Gerald Ford implemented recommendations of the Committee. Yep. Real extreme of those Democrats.

    2. This is a bit off…

      First, let's start by saying that both parties were different back in the day, and not in ways that can be easily quantified by "conservative" and "liberal". The civil rights fights may have kicked out a fair number of bigoted Dixiecrats, but otherwise it did little to move the party to the left IMHO; the 1960's probably did more for that cause than did the elimination of a bunch of Southern Democrats.

      Second, Democrats had a solid majority in the House in every election since WWII (with one exception in 1947), up until the 1994 election; they've held the Senate almost as frequently (big exception during the mid Reagan years). If Democrats had an "out in the wilderness" period, it was the period beginning in 1994. Before then they held an almost unassailable position of power, and it was this position of entrenchment that led Reagan to begin the successful attack on the party based on its supposed corruption and reckless spending.

      Third, it's not as though the GOP fought the conservative activism of the Moral Majority back in the 1980's. They invited it as a means to begin a rise to power. The same goes with their support of the Tea Party; absent the support of the party power brokers and the money that supports the GOP, the Tea Party likely would have died an unnoticed death after a largely unnoticed beginning. Absent the relatively massive TP uprising, Republicans might have even lost the 2010 elections… I do not know if the Republicans can hold out much longer; I don't believe they'll be able to moderate the monsters they've created – 30 years on, the fundagelicals that sprang out of the Moral Majority project are going as strong as ever and getting even more radical as they go. Will the Tea Party supporters be any different? I don't think so.

      1. Well wrought, PR. An accurate accounting of the long steady curve leading to  the end of the Republican party as a force in American politics. The criminality that began to permeate the Nixon white house now dominates the entire conservative movement. "The end justifies the means" was the watchword of the Haldeman, Erlichmann, Mitchell led band of political operatives that met their Waterloo at the Watergate.

        Dishonesty and exploitation seem almost to be exalted characteristics, eagerly trained into the brains of Young Republicans everywhere.The reason they hate public school is all their training in Sunday school is wasted when the kids learn the truth in public school.

      2. Fair points. But consider that things didn't flip one day, this happened over a couple of decades. And the giant voting bloc shift that free'ed the Democrats to shift left and the Republicans to shift right was the Southern bigots switching parties.

        And as that happened the Republicans picked up seats in Congress and became stronger and stronger in the presidential race.

  2. From CREDO Action:

     

    " More than 7,000 CREDO activists joined local residents and activists across Colorado to demand that the BLM protect Colorado's organic farms and vineyards by not auctioning off land in the North Fork Valley for fracking — and we won.1 The BLM removed the leases in the North Fork Valley from the auction.

    If the lease sale had moved forward, the oil and gas industry would have been allowed to start fracking 20,000 acres of land in the valley, putting nearby residents and farms at risk of toxic contamination and economic ruin."

     

    For those of you who don't know, CREDO is a phone carrier with a progressive mission. They take a significant portion of their profits and distribute it to progressive organizations that Members get to choose. I've used them now for a number of years. For me, it's a lot better than ATT's political record, or Verizon, for examples.

    1. I think this action in the North Fork is the most meaningful socia/political action in CO in perhaps decades. Kudos to BLM for listening and responding appropriately. Now, on to the Roan Plateau

       

       

  3. Obama's $100 million stimulus corruption in Colorado

    http://www.9news.com/news/article/315618/339/Stimulus-money-going-to-waste-in-Colorado-

    This should shock Colorado, but not a peep from the Denver Post yet. Not a peep from the federal leaders like Bennet or Udall … although I recall Cory Gardner did expose this corruption months ago.

    Worse for Democrat leaders, I recall that Bennet, Hickenlooper, Udall, Ritter, DeGette, etc… all gave full throatted backing to this Eaglenet scam a few years back. How will these Democrats walk it back?

    A multitude of Democrat constituencies should be pissed …this corruption passed right by them.

      1. An interesting, yet wasted, question IMHO . . .  

        . . . but, if he acutally did know what he was saying in that post, it would be an historic first here.

        1. I don't think Eagle Net is running a scam. They did deviate from what they agreed to do. They have since done a correction. In my rural community we are working with them, and others, to find a way forward to achieving more bandwidth for more people at a more affordable rate. Eagle Net has made great strides out around Montrose

          1. Congressman Gardner to Shake Federal and State Administrations on EagleNet Corruption

            hit the 9News link: http://www.9news.com/rss/story.aspx?storyid=315764

            It looks like Dr. Procto is readying for a deeper examination, it will be interesting to see who the Democrats blame.

            As before, what will really piss off a ton of Demos is all the missed participation in the money flows … all the funding went to:

            1. Big Internet and fibre infrastructure companies (think Cisco)

            2. Eaglenet Corporate salaries of $100-200k

            3. The overseas General Contractor (same screw-up firm from London Olympics)

             

            ?Just how many fucking hot lunches could you have provided for $100,000,000?

             

             

             

             

  4. Another missive from Tea Party. This one a plea from Rep Broun (R-GA) running for Chambliss' seat vacated by his decision not to run for reelection. Broun brags that he soaked the govt for his med school education, that Allen West is a "good friend" and that he was "the first to cal Obama a socialist".

    I've now received 2 emails from the baggers after I answered a poll in which I criticized them. Their emails are very angry. I have not friended them on FB and doubt I will because I think my inbox would get flooded.

      1. To that end, we have some fuzzy, teabag math going here.

        The guy running for Vietnam era draft dodger saxby Chambliss' Senate seat in Georgia is a real skidmark, a Vietnam era draft dodger (4 deferrments), name of j paul Broun.

        As if chambliss wasn't disgusting enough, accusing his Democratic opponent, triple amputee and decorated Vietnam Combat Veteran and Disabled American Military Veteran Max Cleland  of being "weak on national defense", broun is every bit the ass wipe chambliss is, but this guy broun is absolutely clueless and dumbfoundingly ignorant.

        broun is on record as having said the earth is between 4,000 and 9,000 years old. He's from Georgia, an agriculture economy State.

        A guy that's in the U.S. Congress, a Georgia Congressional rep, from a state whose economy is largely based on farming, a craft that dates back 10,000 years minimum, says this earth is at most 9,000 years old.

        There's more. This quack that calls Evolution "A lie straight from the pit of Hell" sits on the Science Committee of the United States House of Representatives. But………..at least untill the 113th Congress, broun wasn't the DUMBEST member of that "esteemed redleg contingent" in the House Committee. That "honor" belonged to todd akin

        You can't make this stuff up.

    1. We've been working on the WYSIWYG editor today after we found a conflict between it and the .js file that's used by Twitter embedded tweets (of all things). It should be working now, but if you discover that the editor does not appear for any reason, please contact us right away at webmaster@coloradopols.com.

  5. Live streaming Civil Unions on the DP site.

    Senator Harvey just objected to parliamentary procedure, insisting he should be allowed to colloquy with Senator Steadman instead of adressing his questions to the chair.

    Why do Republicans hate Robert's Rules od order?

        1. You are correct.

          I doubt I'll say that very often in response to something you post, but even a blind squirel finds a nut every once in a while.

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