December 06, 2023 04:18 PM UTC

Trump Lawyer: Insurrection Involves More than One Building and More than Three Hours

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• by: Colorado Pols

The Colorado Supreme Court began hearing oral arguments today in the case of whether or not Republican Donald Trump should be barred from the 2024 Presidential ballot in Colorado on account of the fact that he incited an insurrection. Today’s arguments are part of an appeal from a November ruling in which Denver District Court Judge Sarah B. Wallace ruled that Trump had indeed incited an insurrection on Jan. 6 but that it was unclear to her that the 14th Amendment specifically applies to the office of President.

During today’s hearing, Trump attorney Scott Gessler — the former Colorado Secretary of State — twisted himself into verbal knots in an effort to establish his own definition of an “insurrection.” You can watch for yourself in the clip below, or read the transcript that follows:

GESSLER: If you look at some of the authorities here, that the petitioners cite, they’ll shift from insurrection in some instances and draw examples from treason and rebellion. So they are used very interchangeably.

So we would argue that, sort of on the scale of violence, and duration, and scope, and organization, the events of Jan. 6 were more like a riot, and far less like…far less than a rebellion. And insurrection is far closer to rebellion than it is riot. [Pols Emphasis]

CHIEF JUSTICE BRIAN BOATRIGHT: How would you define insurrection?

GESSLER: [long pause and sigh] Part of my thesis is that we can’t define it, and that is in part why this is a non-justiciable question. To the extent you push me, which you are, I would say it requires at least multiple considerations that go beyond what we had here. I think the duration has to be longer than three hours. Um, I think the geographical scope has to be larger than one building. And you said, ‘Well, that was the U.S. Capitol.’ True. It wasn’t the Pentagon. It was a singular node. The goal wasn’t to nullify governmental authority and set up an alternative government…[Pols emphasis]

UNIDENTIFIED JUSTICE: Hmmm?

GESSLER: The goal as…if one assumes…if one assumes the predicate that if President Trump directed the crowd, which we reject, to get Mike Pence – Vice President Pence – to delay the certification…that’s not nullification. And I understand it’s violence, and I understand it’s bad. But we, as, and I would submit, as lawyers in this process, need to distinguish those gradations.

In short, Gessler claims that a true “insurrection” must last longer than three hours and encompass more than one building. This would be sort of like arguing that 9/11 was not a real terrorist attack because it lasted less than three hours but did involve more than one building.

The reality of the Jan. 6 insurrection would defy Gessler’s own definition, since the invasion of the U.S. Capitol lasted at least five hours and probably longer if you count the time until the Capitol was fully cleared and declared safe. Regardless, this is all completely absurd and Scott Gessler is in no way someone whom we should look toward for a definition of what makes something a REAL insurrection.