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March 09, 2022 10:59 PM UTC

Thursday Open Thread

  • 76 Comments
  • by: Colorado Pols

“We used to wonder where war lived, what it was that made it so vile. And now we realize that we know where it lives…inside ourselves.”

–Albert Camus

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76 thoughts on “Thursday Open Thread”

    2. When will you admit, Pear,  that your party leadership was wrong to adore Putin and to build his sense of invulnerability and exntitlement? Y’all made a bargain with the devil, and others are bearing the costs for it. 

      1. I'd add some nuance to that. The majority of the Republicans, led by Trump, adored Putin (or in many cases happily went along with Trump). But there were a number, more than just Mitt Romney, who did see Putin for what he is. It was bi-partisan bills passed when Trump was president that supported Ukraine. Over Trump's objections.

      2. From Josh Marshall today: "The Reckoning?"

        Remember the time that Donald Trump’s degenerate campaign manager worked with a business partner who was a Russian spy and they finagled to pull the part of the 2016 GOP platform that called for military aid to Ukraine? Or the time Russian intermediaries reached out to the candidate’s son about the Russian government assisting his campaign and he said he “I love it!” Or the other time when the now leader of the House GOP caucus said that he thought “there’s two people I think Putin pays: Rohrabacher and Trump” and then his colleagues swore him to silence and told him not to speak of it again. Do I need to bring up more examples? Maybe the time where Trump met Putin in Helsinki, Finland, and told reporters he trusted Putin more than his own intelligence officials?

            1. “climate change is a fraud…..” First time on Kilimanjaro, at the end of 1989, I needed an ice axe and crampons to go up the Arrow Glacier in the Great Western Breach. And many other glaciers came down a couple thousand feet from the crater rim.

              On a subsequent trip 20 years later, the Arrow was gone and other glaciers had receded up about half of the 2,000′ distance.

              If it’s not climate change, Pear, tell us what caused all that change. And don’t tell us it was volcanic heat since Kili is dormant, with just a few vents on the north side of the crater floor.

              1. "If it’s not climate change, Pear, tell us what caused all that change"

                It is all part of Roger's deity's divine plan which will be revealed when the new Book of Revelations comes out in print.

                In the meantime, accept it as gospel truth just like some of the other tales (i.e., the Earth is 6,000 years old and God put the dinosaur bones out there to test people's faith).

        2. Deflecting: 

          "psychological defense mechanism that people use to take the blame off of themselves. When they are deflecting, they are trying to make themselves feel less bad for their wrongdoings. This likely happens due to past experiences of being in trouble for things."

      4. I'm still waiting for the minutes from the meeting Trump had with Putin shortly after Trump was elected.  Oh yeah, that meeting had zero Americans in the room.  I've always wondered what that was about.

      1. You have to give Pfuit a little credit this morning (I know, low bar) but at least he didn't describe the VP with the vulgarity he used last week. 

        Tell me, Prfuit, have you always loathed smart, educated strong-willed women of color or is VP Harris just an exception? 

        1. I think Rublesteltskin hates smart, educated, strong-willed women of color.  But he has special distain for VP Harris due to her VP'ing while black (and southeast Asian) and female.

        2. Roger would prefer that Bobblehead Pence to Kamala Harris. That goes without saying.

          I'll bet P-fruit was happy to see Pence's testicles finally drop when he gave his speech to Federalist Society breaking with Trump last month.

          1. I'll bet P-fruit was happy to see Pence's testicles finally drop when he gave his speech to Federalist Society breaking with Trump last month.

            No he wasn't happy to see that.  Because Rublesteltskin believes that everybody must be in complete lock-step with and show unwavering obedience to The Former Guy.

  2. I know I sometimes get a little over-optimistic but…

    I was thinking that when Russia was first stopped, they would reset, get everyone re-supplied, and then we would see a new offensive. But that has not happened. I think their ground assault has shot its bolt. They'll keep pushing but each day it'll be less and less.

    What remains deadly is the missiles and artillery. Russia can do that until they run out of ammunition. And a no fly zone would stop the aircraft bombing, but would have no effect on the much larger missiles and artillery.

    It's bad that we are not providing the MiG fighters to Ukraine. Land them on an autobahn in Poland that leads into Ukraine. Have some farmers connect their tractors and haul them into Ukraine. Then the Ukrainians fly them on. Kudos to Ted Lieu & Alexander Vindman for pushing for this (aside from the exemplary Jason Crow, our Colorado Congresspeople are MIA).

    Russia can make a very real threat of nuclear weapons. But aside from that… they have nothing. We used to be worried that their conventional army could roll through Europe. Now we know, it can't threaten anyone on the other side of Ukraine. That is a giant change in world power, learning that Russia's military is a paper tiger.

    The exodus of Russia's best and brightest is a final death knell for their economy long term. Even if they fixed their government, they no longer have the people that can create a high tech vibrant economy. This is not damage today, but instead is improvements that will never happen.

    The existing economy is cratering. They already have factories closing down because they cannot get needed parts. They likely already are finding themselves unable to maintain or repair devices due to no incoming parts. Biggies will be shutting down airflight throughout the country and no new cars. But it will also be in a million little things from being unable to repair broken dishwashers to not being able to replace a broken iPhone.

    I think there's a good chance that they cannot reopen their stock market for the foreseeable future. And they almost certainly will not be able to make bond payments sometime in the next month. It's not clear what happens when a country's financial system totally locks up, but it's going to be bad. Very very bad.

    We could well see a new revolution in Russia. When the people have no money, their jobs are gone, and they can't fix what they have or buy anything new – then they take to the streets demanding change.

    Poor Ukraine will continue to suffer for a bit. We need to do everything we can to help. Absolutely fucking everything. And do it immediately.

      1. But isn't China a willing trade partner for Russia? Won't that mitigate much of the impact (at least in the long run)? I don't know the answer to that, so if anyone has insight there, please chime in.

        1. In the long-run yes, but…

          China's industry is on their East Coast, and Russia's population is West of the Urals. (The greater part of Russia is actually de-populating). You don't build a 3,500 mile pipeline overnight.

          Also, Russian factories and mines run on European and Japanese machinery. China is not in a position to replace a failed semi-conductor that has just shut down the whole assembly line.

          Make that the very long-run. 

    2. I'm not a military analyst, but I'm not sure that fighter planes are helpful. Well, that is the US military position. I don't think it is all about escalation; I think planes are costly and vulnerable in comparison to other weapons.

      Lots of drones, MANPADs, dome of invincibility (or whatever Israel calls it), encrypted communication (that actually works; not like the Russian crap-talkies). The interesting thing is the extent to which the Ukrainian army has already been seeded with these capabilities.

      I wish it was possible to stop the destruction of cities, a way to cutoff the Russian forces, and to blockade the russian Navy. Destruction as a reign of terror or punishment is what Putin is throwing at them.

      As to the economic destruction in Russia. I'm sure that will be extraordinarily effective, aside from how much time it takes to execute. The "thread of threads" I posted yesterday has much food for thought. I liked the discussion of the Import substitution tractor, which was nothing but a Czech tractor kit assembled in Russia. But, also how the woman who masterminded the (fake) import substitution was promoted to be in charge of the import substitution program.

      Kamil Gareev's big summary "Thread of Threads" on Ukraine & Russia.

      1. I highly ParkHill's link to the Thread of Threads. Really interesting and educational.

        And I agree, there are much more valuable weapons. For example, it would be a shame if that new Patriot battery was parked by a beer hall and the troops went in for a beer and left the keys in the ignition…

    3. Interesting stock trading tidbit. Say you figured that Russia's economy was going to take a nose dive and so bought puts on Russian companies (basically stock market bets that the stock price will go down). Big win right?

      Well… as I understand it, if the market doesn't re-open then all you get is your money back. Because if the market doesn't open, the stock cannot be priced and then they can't price the value of the put.

      Sometimes you can be right and not win.

    4. On a cautionary note.

      The war is feeding a Russian patriotism. (Again see the Thread of Threads about “Z” and the rise of Russian nationalism). 

      Putin’s rise to power included many incidents of false flag bombings, quick-strikes to annex Crimea or Eastern Ukraine. These activities were all designed to build support domestically. Putin is perhaps less Russian imperialist, but more Russian empire building.

      1. Absolutely agree. And that works if there are terrorists bombing Mother Russia (arguably when that happened under Putin it was a false flag operation) or if the fight is elsewhere and it is quick & painless at home.

        But when the fight is elsewhere, lots of coffins come home, you lose your job, your bank account is worthless, and you can't get the dishwasher repaired. Then people get upset.

      2. "The war is feeding a Russian patriotism"

        Absolutely true. As the urban, educated elite who have the resources and motivation to leave depart from Mother Russia, they leave behind what Hillary Clinton might label a basket full of deplorables (корзина плачевных).

        Putin's base is very similar to Trump's base which may, in addition to the pee pee video, be part of the affinity they have for one another. 

    5. Thanks Dave.  I appreciate your thoughts but the horror of this war is going to last for years.  There are already two million war refugees with most of them being children.  Many have no home or job to go back to and many will never see their pets again.  It's just heartbreaking.

      1. Yeah – it's awful. I haven't heard from the guys who work for my old company for over a week and I hope hope hope it just means they're busy surviving. They did all get their wives & children to Poland (I offered to put them up here).

    6. Wild animals and autocrats are never more dangerous than when they're backed into a corner with no way out.

      I fear Putin more every day.

      1. You are absolutely correct Diogenesdemar.  As much as it sucks, we need to find a way for Putin to find an exit ramp and save face at the same time. His personal feeling of humiliation is what started all of this in the first place. 

    7. No one mistrusts and even hates Putin* more than I. 
      I grew up and served most of my long military career during Cold War. 

      So did he.

      And his opportunities to defeat the west are dwindling. 
      I hope "Absolutely fucking everything." is hyperbole to emphasize a point, because no we shouldn't.  The Soviet collapsed and the Russian transition was to say their economy was "privatized" by letting the oligarchs steal it all, with plenty of western assistance. (Looking at you big pharma, Panama, bio oil, and others.) 

      *KGB, FSB and a bona fide godless commie

       

      1. I was reminded while reading another blog that Putin had KGB training and experience — and was no place close to military training, experience, or effective command of a campaign.  The speculation there was that BECAUSE he had never been in combat, never leading people he cared about during combat, he doesn't appreciate the losses or risks of military action.

    8. While I agree with much of what you say, David, assuming Putin doesn't unleash WWIII, they most likely will become the new Cuba or Iran. 

      A client state of China, with a shrunken economy running on rubber bands and duct tape.  China needs Russia's raw materials and oil.  That is incentive enough to keep them on life support.  At least they will be on a slightly higher rung than their other client, North Korea.

      Figuring out how to pull their nuclear teeth will be the tricky part.  China doesn't have that ability any more than they can stop N. Korea from building more nukes.

      Does Putin survive the humiliation?  That'll be up to the oligarchs and generals, as the new Iron Curtain comes down even harder than after WWII.

       

    9. One more nail in Russia’s coffin I read of today.  China joined Boeing and Airbus in announcing they would not provide spare parts or training for Russian planes. 

      Soon, very soon, the oligarchs won’t be able to fly to wherever their yachts are docked, the cities with their pied-à-terres, or their preferred resort hotels.

  3. They clearly have manly men in that trucker convoy. From Brian Cohen:

    NEW: A trucker in the convoy says he’s taking a day off from driving in laps around DC because “3 young girls in a blue Hyundai” flipped him off. He says he’s now fearful: “It wasn’t just a normal middle finger that was relaxed… It messed me up.” (per 1st Responders Media)

  4. In an interview with NBC's Lester Holt southern border Czarina Kamala Harris was asked if she had ever been to the border. She responded saying "we've been to the border". Fact: neither she or Biden had ever been to the border. Caught in her prevarication and further pressed by Holt if she had ever been to the border she responded by saying she's "never been to Europe either."

    After doing such a bang up job addressing the invasion at our southern border, the zero foreign policy experience Czarina finally made it to Europe tasked with Biden to deal with the invasion of Ukraine and avert WWIII.

    The future's so bright, I gotta wear shades.

    1. Grasping at straws, allyncooper. 

      The Trumplican party has destroyed any semblance of so-called "conservatism" within the Grand Old Party and has left the GOP a stumbling, confused, shadow of its former greatness. 

      And…I am always greatly amused when a right wing spokesperson actually brings up the subject of prevarication.

      Are you fucking kidding me?

    2. I'm betting the current Vice President of the United States of America is having substantive discussion with her European counterparts that will result in cooperation in dealing with this large influx of war refugees.  The trickle of refugees escaping the violence in Central America come with the same tales of brutality and fear.  The only long term solution in either scenario is to help restore stability and peace to the places they are fleeing from.

    4. You need to be able to remember the past, ally n cooper

       

      Kamala Harris visits US border amid migrant crisis – BBC News

      https://www.bbc.com › world-us-canada-57619601

      Jun 26, 2021 — Kamala Harris has made her first trip as vice-president to the nation's southern border as the White House grapples with political pressure …

      Why Vice President Harris is in France this week – NPR

      https://www.npr.org › 2021/11/04 › vice-president-harris-…

      Nov 4, 2021 — Vice President Kamala Harris is in Paris this week, her third international trip this year. But in contrast to her first two, where she met …

       

       

  5. No one ever changes their mind, they make a new decision. I’ve made a new decision. It’s time to open the arsenal of democracy. The Obama/Biden administration must call Putin’s bluff. Let’s send in the F35, B52, A10, F18, B1, B2 and every other piece of equipment to destroy the Russian army. If it means nuclear war than so be it.

    Imagine a year from now Iran, using the atomic threat do have their way in the Mideast.

    If the world is going to blow up let’s do it now.

     

        1. The crazy dreams of youth remain long after all the youth has petered away . . .


           

          . . . Ride 'em, Pfruity!

          Personally happy to see you go, Roger;  . . .

          . . . but, remember, just cuz' your time is nearing its end, doesn't mean the rest of the world wants to hop in the coffin with you!

          1. Misery enjoys company?  Pfruit can't do shit for Ukraine, so he'll enjoy everyone else's demise — return of the nasty old man suffering from dementia . . . 
             

      3. thank you, Duke:

        Although the image that flashes across my mind, Powerful Pear taking the role as

        B-52 pilot Maj. "King" Kong — a straight-shootin' Texan played by cowboy character actor Slim Pickens — goes to the bomb bay to manually release the stuck bay doors on his damaged aircraft, thus enabling him to complete his nuclear attack run on a Soviet target. He succeeds, but just as he celebrates his accomplishment with a bit of hootin' and hollerin', the bomb on which he was seated is dropped. He rides the device all the way in to the target,

        maybe it will be a low-budget fan-flick, and the bomb will slide out the back of a semi-trailer?

    2. Israel, something, something, the Bear from the North, something, something, God, something, Smiting, 

      A reminder that Ronald Wilson Reagan was the anti-Christ. Yes folks, six letters in every name,

    6. A-10
      AC-130 J or W
      C-5
      AH-64

      and tens of thousands of soldiers with guns and missiles. 

      I hear ya- but American people, including tax payers are not on board. And, oddly, many of them love Putin

  6. Brother can you spare a dime a Falcon 7?

    Grifters gonna grift.  #CadetBoneSpurs needs a new plane (maybe one that has enough range to deliver him to a country that doesn't have an extradition treaty with the US?)

    Trump asking supporters to fund new plane after emergency landing

    The fundraising email said he had "a very important update on his plane" and asked potential donors if they remember how the former president used to travel across the U.S. in his own "Trump Force One" before he became "the greatest President of all time." 

    The email included a GIF of a plane taking off with a poll giving donors "yes" or "no" options if they wanted to see his new plane.

    The poll links to a donation page that asks supporters to "Contribute ANY AMOUNT IMMEDIATELY to send your response to President Trump!"

     

      1. Oh skinny, he has a plane – it just doesn't meet his "I use to take a schitt on a gold toilet in my NY penthouse apartment" standards!

        Trump's private Boeing 757 sitting idle in disrepair at New York airport: report

        Former President Trump's personal Boeing 757 is sitting unused at an Orange County, New York airport, unable to be flown, CNN reports.

         

        The full-size passenger airliner, which bears Trump's name across the side in large block letters, has fallen into disrepair. One engine is shrink-wrapped and the other is missing parts, according to the outlet.

        1. I say, load the fucking thing with TNT, slap a Chinese flag on it, and let Pfruit and BoneSpurs try to take out their kamikaze fantasies on Moscow!

          The Adventures of Banzai Edwards and the Bonespurs Cadet . . . 

        2. Trump's plane in November, 2021:

          https://simpleflying.com/trump-boeing-757-flies-again/

          Trump's statement last week [apparently, maintenance work proceeds SLOWLY… maybe it only advances when a monthly bill is paid?]: 

          “Many people have asked about the beautiful Boeing 757 that became so iconic during the Trump rallies. It was effectively kept in storage in Upstate New York in that I was not allowed to use it during my presidency. It is now being fully restored and updated and will be put back into service sometime prior to the end of the year. It will soon be brought to a Louisiana service facility for the completion of work, inspection and updating of Rolls-Royce engines, and a brand new paint job. When completed, it will be better than ever, and again used at upcoming rallies!” he enthused in an emailed statement.

           

  7. Interesting tweet from Gregg Smith regarding Betsy DeVos' brother.  Gregg has some history with Eric / Blackwater: 

  9. More blather from ex-President Dunning-Kruger:

    “Green energy. The windmills,” he said, skipping literally not one beat. “They don’t work. They’re too expensive. They kill all the birds. They ruin your landscapes. And yet the environmentalists love the windmills. And I’ve been preaching this for years. The windmills. And I had them way down. But the windmills are the most expensive energy you can have. And they don’t work. And by the way, they last a period of 10 years and by the time they start rusting and rotting all over the place, nobody ever takes them down. They just go on to the next piece of prairie or land and destroy that.”

  10. What do Marjorie Taylor Green, Andy Biggs, Louie Gohmert, Cori Bush, Ilhan Omar, Matt Gaetz and Lauren Boebert have in common?

    They were among the 17 House members to vote against cutting off the import of Russian oil.

    Go far enough to the right and far enough to the left and they find common ground.

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