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October 13, 2011 03:40 PM UTC

Thursday Open Thread

  • by: Colorado Pols

“There are a thousand hacking at the branches of evil to one who is striking at the root.”

–Henry David Thoreau


53 thoughts on “Thursday Open Thread

  1. According to Rassy Obama has managed to cull his negativities by some 20-30% from the months long run that saw the index bouncing around in the negative (-)20 to – 25 range.

    Many are wondering if the recently trumpeted job plan from Obama could be having an effect. Unfortunately no real analysis of his job plan has been presented to the people. It’s been more or less a “rage against the machine” approach, which has left Obama’s singular achievement being the registration of Joe the Plumber for Congress.

    As we all know Obama presents himself as a like able guy. However, the community organizer in chief has failed to organize a successful administration. Food stamps feeding 47+million Americans, over 50% of Americans don’t pay federal taxes, 9+% unemployment and 17+% real unemployment. These are re-elect success points.

    1. An update for LIBERTAD is available. For latest protection against stupidity, fact-bending, and other malware, it is recommended that you keep LIBERTAD updated with the latest version. Please upgrade to the newest version immediately.

      1. Those earning under $20k a year?  Hell, make ’em live on $15k…if my grandpappy could do it in 1919 then those lazy poor people–with their refrigerators and other modern conveniences–can clearly do it today.  All it takes is American gumption and grit.  

        1. Lowing taxes on working, saving and investing and using a national sales tax (consumption) to fill the coffers for your government spending….

          You must be going fucking bananas, it’s like the ghost of Milton Friedman. Time to go line up all the tax lawyers and accountants to spin how crazy Herman Cain is ……

          Just imagine that $200k Bentley or the $1.20 school note book with a fucking  9% tax on top of all the other taxes. Pretty soon the people start to understand just how much their government is costing them ….. Holy fuck batman.

          1. and increases the over all tax burden on middle and lower income Americans.  And it does so on purpose. Particularly the federal on top of state and local sales tax provision.  The less you make the greater portion of your income is spent on just buying enough necessities to keep body and soul together and the greater proportion of your income that extra 9% represents.  

              1. The Wall Street Greed Heads forgot that, in a consumer based economy you need to avoid sucking your consumers so dry they can’t consume anymore.  Or else, more likely, they know that perfectly well but don’t care because they are still living in an unregulated house of cards, castles in the air, Ponzi scheme friendly economy where they can make huge gambles with huge profits when they win and with no adverse personal financial consequences when they lose, regardless of the suffering they spread in their wake.  

                The American citizen/consumer is no longer of any real concern to them. It’s all just a figures and schemes created out of nothing and based on nothing game for them. Bubble after bubble has left them personally unscathed, except for the rare loser among them, like Madoff, thrown to the wolves and each of them is more likely to be struck by lightening than suffer the same fate. Party on.

          2. Lowing taxes …


            Origin of LOW

            Middle English loowen, from Old English hlowan; akin to Old High Geman hluoen to moo, to call, summon, Greek kalein

            First Known Use: before 12th century

            Maybe you ought to consider that update offer?

            1. a tax on ranchers. Every time one of their cows speaks (so to speak), the rancher is charged a small amount. It is a burdensome tax, but creates jobs in the form of “Moo Monitors’ and such.

              It is similar to the “oink tax” in Iowa.

      1. Are you really there standing up shouting that the CBO did some an analysis? 97% of Americans couldn’t tell you who the CBO is …. Don’t tell me they there is CBo scoring out there …. Not after that scoring they did on Obamacare.

        Our President has failed to communicate his jobs plan … He can’t even get Jon Testor or Nelson to vote for this mystery pig. The Preaident really needs to get serious, the election is in 12 months.

        1. That crazy left-wing Euro-socialist?  Oh wait never mind wrong guy.

          No analysis?  Or no analysis that suits your measure, whatever that is, of success?  Even by your pitiful ‘standards’ that is pretty weak Tadpole.  

    2. Manufacturer says: “I’ll bring my plant back to the US if you let me house it in the prison”

      America says: “Sounds good because I have to be able to get my Walmart goods and prices. Then we can proudly put ‘made in America’.”

      Manufacturer says: “Done.”

      America says: “They’re learning a trade. They should have behaved better.”

      1. GA gov’t says:  “We’ve got plenty of bodies in our prisons to throw at fighting a fire so why can’t we cut the FD employees and make the ones still on staff supervise criminal offenders as psuedo prison guards?”

        Sentient Americans say:  “WTF?”

        Unpaid prison labor to replace certified emergency responders … yeah, WTF?

          1. Not a single sentient being approves of Obama according to latest Rassie! I even asked my cats.  They looked disdainful.  No point in bothering with an election!

      1. Would you like to explain? Have I misunderstood? Or should we skip right to the part where I explain to you that it’s rather unsporting to be rude to the greatest guy in Congress?

      1. The trade deals are very bad for American workers.  The Korean trade deal will cost the US 159,000 jobs over the next 10 years.  Trading with Columbia – where the government or government agents regularly murder labor leaders – is not good policy.  Panama has the strictest corporate secrecy laws in the world.  That is why hundreds of thousands of international corporate congomerates are incorporated there.  There are specific provisions in the agreements that are worse for the US than NAFTA and could lead to the dismantling of financial regulations, environmental laws and a host of other regulations that keep us safe and protect us from the ravages of korporate greed.

      2. I was just listening to NPR on the car radio but the analysis I heard was that jobs gained as opposed to lost due to the South Korea trade deal leaves a net job loss. Naturally the kind of jobs that compose the loss are blue collar jobs There will never be enough good jobs with benefits in your sector, Dave, to get the middle class back on it’s feet. If we can’t figure out a way to return to making stuff and building stuff with American workers, the American middle class as we’ve known it is over. We aren’t all going to be able to make a decent living being entrepreneurs, rocket scientist or ITs. Especially since we’re cutting opportunities for good education even faster than we’re cutting jobs.  

        1. My business already competes in a world-wide free trade zone so we’re there. But as you say, it’s a different labor market for my sector.

          The thing is, I think those manufacturing jobs are gone forever. Not just in the U.S., but world-wide. It takes a lot fewer people to build a car today than 20 years ago so even if all car manufacturing returned to the U.S., it’s a lot fewer jobs.

          And that efficiency is going to accelerate in manufacturing. Especially as software replaces many of the remaining jobs and 3D printers eliminate a lot of the skilled blue collar jobs.

          I think instead of trying to pull back some manufacturing jobs that are going to disappear, we need to figure out how to have full employment in a post-manufacturing economy.

          1. what do you suggest for people who need decent jobs right now?  Not years of retraining. Not educational opportunities when their school days were over 20 years ago. Right now. There are still things that require actual workers such as rebuilding our infrastructure.  

            How about we stop talking about the idea of shovel ready projects and get some started?  How about instead of laying off teachers, firefighters and police, we put more of them to work? We still don’t have cyborgs for lots of things that need to be done.  And with those people working, all kinds of businesses, restaurants, retail, services of all kinds will have more customers.

            What would be wrong with starting there? And what would be wrong with fairer trade agreements and tax structures that don’t positively encourage and reward killing American jobs?

            1. Rebuild the infrastructure? Not only does it provide jobs but it’s a great investment in our future.

              Adequate funding for teachers, police, etc. Again should be a no-brainer. Employs people and is an investment in the economy.

              But after that, instead of focusing on manufacturing jobs, lets figure out where we can take the economy so we have decent jobs for everyone.

              1. where everyone is above average.  A healthy middle will always mean lots of jobs with decent pay and benefits for average people.  That’s what manufacturing sector jobs used to provide and what replaces them has to be as accessible to the average majority and pay as well as the lost jobs. Low paying service sector jobs won’t do it and the race to the bottom must end.  

                1. 100 years ago you could get a decent job without much of an education. But in the ’50s it was considered reasonable to say that a good job required a High School education. Well we’re 50 years beyond that now and I think we’ve moved to a good job requires a college education.

                  A giant component of our rise in the standard of living for everyone is people produce more with their mind and less with their muscles. And that means increasing the educational level for average people.

                  Yes we need good jobs for average people. But the average people do have to step up to the requirements of today and not pine away for the lesser requirements of earlier times.

    1. so supposedly we get to produce more high-tech products for export and these 3 countries will also reduce our tariffs.  But Columbia, Panama, & Korea all get to ship more meat, veggies, fruit & grain into US (check the origin of your “fresh” fruits & veggies down @ the KingSoopers) and we’ll see further withering of US apparel & textile jobs (if there are any left).

      Why reduce tariffs on imported goods at the same time we’re trying to shore up our own manufacturing?  Why now?  The consolation is that the 3 trade agreements include funding for the TAA program for retraining those that lose jobs due to increased imports (but it will likely be cut when GOP is next in power).

      Now what kind of retraining available for rural folks or those in the textile belts thru the Carolinas?  Fine to retrain but for what jobs?

      We’ll have at least 100,000 folks let go when USPS starts folding operations within next couple of years.  We’ll could have 100,000 soldiers eventually back from active duty sometime in future that will also hit the jobs market.  But where are the jobs?    

      1. And the answer isn’t manufacturing jobs – those are disappearing worldwide.

        As farming became more efficient and people left the farm for the city, there were an immense number of manufacturing jobs available.

        But as manufacturing jobs disappear, what will provide the jobs for the multitude that are no longer needed in manufacturing?

  2. For those that don’t know, he was the co-inventor of C and UNIX. Form Sutter’s Mill

    C is a poster child for why it’s essential to keep those people who know a thing can’t be done from bothering the people who are doing it. (And keep them out of the way while the same inventors, being anything but lazy and always in search of new problems to conquer, go on to use the world’s first portable and efficient programming language to build the world’s first portable operating system, not knowing that was impossible too.)

    1. And movies were a nickel, and you got at least one short, one news reel and the movie.  And we cut the lawn with a blade on a handle that we swung around.  And we each owned 2, at most 3, pairs of shoes.

      Now get off the damn lawn.

    2. of the time my mom was taking a picture of my daughter with your basic, point and click 35mm camera. She was used to seeing the picture on the back of digital cameras, and looked soooooo cheated when there wasn’t one on Grandma’s.

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