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June 30, 2011 08:29 PM UTC

Larimer County GOP Facing $200,000 in Fines

  • 72 Comments
  • by: Colorado Pols

As the Ft. Collins Coloradoan reports, the Larimer County Republican Party is looking at as much as $216,000 in fines because of problems stemming from former Party Chairman Larry Carillo:

Former Larimer County Republican Party Chairman Larry Carillo used more than $17,000 in party money for payments to two companies he owned and for ATM withdrawals and other payments that can’t be explained, according to amended campaign finance reports the party is filing…

…A Coloradoan review of the new disclosure showed $5,350 in contributions from Carillo’s companies that the Larimer GOP has reported could wind up costing the party more than $200,000 in fines because the contributions appear to violate state campaign finance laws.

The payments to his companies and the debit card use are likely at the heart of an ongoing criminal investigation of Carillo’s tenure as party chairman.

Carillo was first elected Chairman of the Larimer County Republican Party in 2009; he resigned on February 28 after other party leaders noticed a bunch of unpaid bills and other more problematic findings. The bigger problem, where campaign finance law is concerned, is that the Larimer GOP apparently didn’t file any campaign finance reports in 2010.

The Larimer County GOP is looking at at least $65,000 in fines for not filing reports in 2010, but that number is continuing to rise. They’re still facing $50 per day late fees because they admitted that the report they finally filed in March of this year was inaccurate, and because some contributions from more than two years ago were not reported, fines could reach $216,000. But fortunately for them, there are two big-name Republicans in charge of the criminal case and the campaign finance problems. Again, from The Coloradoan:

The Larimer County GOP is seeking a reduction in those fines, and Secretary of State Scott Gessler’s office has said it will wait to determine the final fine amount until the party filed its amended campaign finance reports and until a prosecutor decided on whether to file criminal charges in the case.

Weld County District Attorney Ken Buck was named special prosecutor in the case after the District Attorney for Larimer County, Larry Abrahamson, recused himself because he had contributed to the county GOP. Buck’s office only will say the investigation is ongoing.

Wait a minute…so Larry Abrahamson, the Larimer County District Attorney, (rightfully) recused himself from the case because he is a donor to the county party. So the case instead goes to Weld County D.A. Ken Buck, who was the Republican nominee for U.S. Senate in 2010??? Didn’t Buck and his campaign work with the Larimer County Republican Party last year?

Also involved with this case is former Larimer County Sheriff Jim Alderden, who is now…wait for it…the Executive Director of the Larimer County GOP.

Gessler has already shown in his first six months in office that he’s not overly concerned with silly things like “laws” or “rules”, and he might very well be inclined to agree with the Larimer County GOP’s request to reduce their fines. After all, says the Larimer GOP, it’s not their fault that nobody in the Party paid any attention to what was happening. Here’s the County GOP’s reasoning for why they shouldn’t be fined:

“[The Larimer County Republican Party] should not be penalized by the imposition of such substantial fines when the failure to file the requisite campaign finance reports was a result of the failure of its volunteer chairman to inform the executive committee or the committee as a whole that reports had not been filed as required.”

 

In other words, the Larimer County GOP thinks that it shouldn’t get in trouble because it’s not their fault that nobody was paying any attention to anything. No fair, no fair! He didn’t tell us that he was breaking the law!

We don’t know how many officers the Larimer County GOP contained in 2010, but according to their website, there are 14 people listed as 2011-13 “Officers” or members of the “Executive Board.” We’d assume that there were roughly that many “Officers” in 2010, and if the Larimer GOP is like most county parties, they have more regular meetings than Alcoholics Anonymous.

Nobody ever asked if they filed their campaign finance reports? Really? Never?

What about the Party’s Treasurer? Former Treasurer Terri Fassi apparently resigned in July or August 2010 and was not replaced before the end of the year — but she still would have been responsible for reporting for the first half of the year. And what about previous Treasurer Matt Fries, who resigned in 2009 (a year that is also missing reporting details)? Fries at least tries an excuse, claiming that he didn’t open letters from the Secretary of State’s office related to the problems.

It strikes us as a little disingenuous to claim that nobody knew what Carillo was doing when there were plenty of people who, at the very least, should have had some questions. If you put your hands over your ears and close your eyes really tight, maybe it will all just disappear! If you just don’t open the mail, the bad words won’t come out!

Look, we acknowledge that it sucks when one person royally screws things up for an entire organization. There’s no excuse for that…but it’s also inexcusable that nobody else in the County Party lifted so much as an eyelid. It will be interesting to see if Republicans such as Gessler and Buck will accept this nonsense excuse and bury everything at Carillo’s feet. Carillo deserves what’s coming to him, but he shouldn’t be alone.

Comments

72 thoughts on “Larimer County GOP Facing $200,000 in Fines

  1. that Larry Carillo was, for a time, considering a run for state party chairman? He was seen by some as a great compromise between the Ryan Call and Ted Harvey factions. Oh, what might have been …

    1. He’s evidently a criminal and need to be prosecuted. You won’t find any Republicans happy that a county chair was using party donations at the casinos.

      Meanwhile, in Adams County…

      1. And I take responsibility for that – should these points all turn out to be true, then I WAS WRONG

        Larry was a close friend of mine, and in campaigning as a Republican candidate in 2010, I found the Larimer County GOP to have the most enthused and intelligent central committee, within the entire State – in addition, there was no bigotry in Larimer’s GOP – for that matter, Larry’s leadership impressed me

        However, in light of all of this, I hold back my compliments – if proven guilty, Larry Carillo owes an apology to Larimer County and should have to shoulder the burden for all the trouble caused (and I only say “if proven” because we still live in a criminal justice system that is fair and everyone deserves their fair shot at defense)

        Lastly – I feel sympathy for any County Party, as they operate on such few resources – I won’t mind if the rules or monies owed regarding the Larimer County Republicans is relaxed, but there should be a thorough investigation done against Larry Carillo

            1. I have two opinions –

              1. Ken Buck is a good friend of mine and I have always found him to be extremely honest – I’m sure the case and investigation is in good hands, because I know Ken has integrity

              2. Personally… I would’ve referred this case to a different DA, because as a US Senate candidate, Ken Buck had to work with Party activists, thus, the notion that ‘bias’ could enter into the case is evident

              Lastly, I don’t know how these matters work, when a DA recuses himself and it gets referred elsewhere, so maybe there was a specific reason that it went to the Weld DA? I still expect Ken Buck to handle this with honesty and I’m not worried about the outcome

        1. I sat on an Executive Committee for our local party in Larimer County for two years. Our Chair, two Vice Chairs, the Treasurer and Secretary were tasked with direct oversight of the organization and that oversight included finance. The rest of us (SD and HD Directors) were also responsible for paying attention. Why else do you think every County party elects officials to these positions of responsibility?

          To have upwards of 14 people who are directly responsible to their Republican constituents, donors and volunteers to ignore, for two years, financial inconsistencies, lack of proper filings, lack of monthly financial reports, is reprehensible behavior. It’s irresponsible beyond words. Any non profit or for profit board worth their weight in salt has to be on top of their donor lists, their financial filings, et al. You know that better than anybody. To suggest that Gessler should “relax” the rules for an organization that operated so miserably is outrageous. And I would feel the exact same way if this were Larimer County Dems.

          You don’t get to pass all of this off on Carillo. And that’s exactly the direction this appears to be heading–Carillo becomes the fall guy and everybody else gets a nice big pass. Bullshit. Wrong answer. Try again.  

          1. And I would feel the same way about any other Party too – to hint that I have no convictions on this issue is wrong – I’d feel the same way about the local “Anti Mosque Party” if there was one (one could argue that such a Party actually does exist, but I digress)

            My point – if we have a system where County Parties are brutalized when caught in trouble, then what’s the point of even having County Parties? Who would even join or attempt to run one?

            God forbid we outsource all responsibility of political awareness to the RNC and DNC, organizations that are pretty darn inefficient when it comes to promoting a local voice

            I politely submit that I will not apologize for my opinion on this, MOTR – County Parties should register with the SOS, be completely transparent and fines should be levied for wrongdoing, but rarely will I chide any SOS for being “soft” on a County Party, when found in violation, because everything possible should be done to encourage people to join their County Parties and participate

            Lastly, Larry Carillo could very well face criminal charges – the American system of justice will prevail – we don’t have to annihilate the County Party in order to serve justice on the matter

            1. For being forced to obey financial law in the state of Colorado? Give me a break here. No one is being “brutalized.” No one is being “annihilated.” They are being held responsible for gross financial negligence.

              You want to know what discourages people from joining their County Party? Mismanagement. Neglect.

              If you think political financing laws are on the books just as filler, then I guess going easy on a party when they violate state law is the most obvious choice for you. That isn’t the option I choose. You break the law, you ignore filings, you refuse to hold your own accountable? You reap the consequences of your actions.

              You suggest that if the Party is held to obeying the laws that the other 60+ county parties in this state are having no problem upholding, it discourages participation. That’s not just a laughable notion. It’s downright embarrassing.

              I politely submit that I will not apologize for my opinion on this, Ali. Or back down from the notion that the Secretary of State’s office has a duty to enact the law equally to political organizations just as it does to the average Joe when he doesn’t comply with it.  

              1. …according to this, MOTR, the Larimer County Democrats are somewhat notorious for being late in campaign filings of recent – particularly late filings in December of 2010 and September of 2010 –

                http://tracer.sos.colorado.gov

                My opinion? We all have jobs and families and we’re doing our best – cut the County Parties some slack

                Your opinion? Stalin-esque, in that, we throw the book at everyone… I don’t know when you served on the Larimer County Democrats, MOTR, but I don’t think its fair to use that good organization as a temperature reading against the Larimer GOP, when it comes to perfect, financial reporting

                (rocks in glass houses?)

                1. now does it? We are not in over our heads for a possible $200K in fines, we have our financial house in order, and we actually know what our Chair is doing with our money. Funny thing that–being responsible and being accountable.

                  Let’s take another look at your comparison, shall we? A late filing in 2 quarters is just a tad bit different than the following:

                  1. Not filing a single report for over 2 years.

                  2. Violating state campaign finance law, repeatedly.

                  3. Having the party filed under the same name twice.

                  4. ATM withdrawals for thousands in cash that a Treasurer isn’t even bothering to reconcile with the books.

                  5. Filing a campaign finance report that you KNOW is inaccurate in March just so you can try and stop the $50 a day penalty for late reports.

                  6. Not opening notices from the Secretary of State’s office because you don’t like bad news, then lying to the rest of your committee about it while your Chair is busy embezzling campaign donations.

                  And those are just the highlights that you suggest are nothing more than a County Party just “trying to do its best.” Aw golly gee. Shucks. To hell with punishment. They should be given a medal.

                  Stalin-esque to expect a political party to be responsible and uphold the law? No, it’s called being an adult. But don’t you worry, Ali. With Buck at the head of the investigation and Gessler at the helm, I predict the Larimer County GOP will walk away scott free from the whole thing and we can just chalk it up to good folks doing the best they can.

                  No rocks in glass houses, darling. If you can find an applicable comparison, you might have a leg to stand on but comparing apples to baseball bats doesn’t really work here.  

                2. might be just a bit of an exaggeration. Did you look at the two late filings? The first late filing was waived, due to a glitch with Quick books and Tracer. The 2nd filing was ONE DAY late. Ooooh, the horror. Yeah, that’s definitely comparable to the GOP troubles.  

                  1. So you said –

                    “You want to know what discourages people from joining their County Party? Mismanagement. Neglect.”

                    You also said –

                    “I sat on an Executive Committee for our local party in Larimer County for two years. Our Chair, two Vice Chairs, the Treasurer and Secretary were tasked with direct oversight of the organization and that oversight included finance. The rest of us (SD and HD Directors) were also responsible for paying attention. Why else do you think every County party elects officials to these positions of responsibility?

                    …Any non profit or for profit board worth their weight in salt has to be on top of their donor lists, their financial filings, et al.”

                    However, when presented that the Larimer County Democrats were shown to be delinquent twice (with one waived, under a Democratic Secretary of State, Bernie Buescher, for which he received no criticism for from you, unlike Gessler in the hypothetical situation that he relaxes offenses against the Larimer GOP) you said –

                    “A late filing in 2 quarters is just a tad bit different than…”

                    Well… how is it different?

                    You said –

                    “The first late filing was waived, due to a glitch with Quick books and Tracer. The 2nd filing was ONE DAY late. Ooooh, the horror.”

                    Okay… so the Secretary of State should create an exception for County Parties that file one day late – as well as those that use QuickBooks?

                    Fine by me.

                    But you said –

                    “If you think political financing laws are on the books just as filler, then I guess going easy on a party when they violate state law is the most obvious choice for you. That isn’t the option I choose.”

                    So at what point do “political financing laws” become “filler”? (your words, not mine)

                    So we overlook a QuickBooks correction that was waived by the Democratic SOS (involving a Democratic County Party) and we overlook a one-day late filing… but at what point do these exceptions create “filler” out of our “political financing laws”? At what point do the exceptions cross the threshold of “That isn’t the option I choose”…?

                    Just the fact that you are saying that there is a “difference,” MOTR, is that not being hypocritical?

                    MOTR, I love you like crazy – but considering the deliquencies of the Larimer County Democrats (for which you are seeming to take ownership of) I don’t think you’re in a position to criticize the Larimer GOP – especially when, as you pointed out –

                    “You suggest that if the Party is held to obeying the laws that the other 60+ county parties in this state are having no problem upholding, it discourages participation. That’s not just a laughable notion. It’s downright embarrassing.”

                    (again – you words – not mine – you already acknowledge that most County Parties are not guilty of 2 delinquincies in one year)

                    Last note MOTR – I’m not one to tell you what to say, but I think your original argument would’ve been stronger, had you said –

                    “I volunteer for a political organization that is also required to report its finances. We were found delinquent twice in 2010, but we confronted those problems and paid the proper fees, as well as took care of the violations. As someone who has had to deal with such violation, I don’t think it is fair to forgive the Larimer GOP, as we had to confront our mistakes honestly, without favors given.”  

                    1. that MOTR asked you to reconcile your comparison between what the Larimer County GOP chair did with one waived and one one-day-late filing by the Larimer County Dems.

                      I don’t recall reading a response in your rant, Ali.

                    2. Lemme re-paste –

                      “Just the fact that you are saying that there is a “difference,” MOTR, is that not being hypocritical?”

                      To make it more clear – they’re both delinquencies, under State Law – and I agree with that definition  

                    3. There were NO filings ignored!  None.

                      There were two small filing errors, both fixed almost immediately.  Surely you can’t be saying you see no difference in the situations.  

                      No one is saying humans can’t make mistakes.  However, it’s hard to find anything in this writeup on the LCRP that in any way suggests that not filing any reports in a whole year (nada, not one, zip), not responding to the SOS, the chair playing funny games with his “companies” and the party treasury,  can be chalked up to “mistakes”.

                    4. You write the way you want. I’ll write the way I want.

                      Love me all you want. That’s lovely and all but it doesn’t change the fact that your argument is absurd and nearly embarrassing to read.

                      If comparing a $50 fine (that was immediately paid) as a prime example to the Larimer County GOP Party who is looking at fines in the $75K range seems like an apt comparison to you, you go for it, baby! Don’t let me stand in between you and logic.

                       

                    5. My point is, you talk a very big, unforgiving game, for someone who’s affiliated with an organization that has more delinquencies than most non-profit reporting groups in Colorado

                      Glass house – meet rocks

                      Nothing else to debate here – time to move on

              2. “You want to know what discourages people from joining their County Party? Mismanagement. Neglect.”

                If the party was being managed correctly, crazy loons like me wouldn’t have to get involved. 🙂

          2. Carillo is the fall guy. However, the board has it so wrapped up that nothing can be proven about anyone else. This was the motivation for my campaign – to find out who else was involved and expose the corruption. Without proof, though, there was nothing I could say. So the central committee decided to trust the board.

        2. I recall asking what Larry did for a living once, and I was told he was a “businessman”. I never got a more specific answer from anyone, and I guess I assumed that more important people were on top of it. Apparently, nobody was. In retrospect, it’s a line of questioning I should have pursued further.  

  2. the rest of the story.

    “It strikes us as a little disingenuous to claim that nobody knew what Carillo was doing when there were plenty of people who, at the very least, should have had some questions.”

    All I can say is, I tried. I asked questions. I was stonewalled. So I ran for GOP chair. But of course they circled the wagons and the fix was in.

      1. 1) They usually have enough of a point to piss off someone with power.

        2) They’re usually run by a guy like Beej.

        Case in point. Shame, you’d have been a loon as always but you’d probably have avoided outright lawbreaking. Beej for chair!

      1. The Treasurer was gone by August. Larry resigned. Don’t know where the secretary is now but I don’t think whoever it was is on the current board. Which leaves one person… * ahem *. And you can see why said person might not be on the friendliest terms with me.

  3. The post states, “They’re still facing $50 per day late fees because they admitted that the report they finally filed in March of this year was inaccurate, and because some contributions from more than two years ago were not reported, fines could reach $216,000.”

    I’m afraid this is mixing and matching two distinct events. The fines for not filing reports are not continuing to toll. Those fines stopped accumulating on March 4 when the Larimer GOP filed reports that they admitted weren’t accurate. The Colorado Constitution and statutes require candidates, committees and parties to file periodic reports in a timely fashion; there’s no requirement that they be accurate. So those fines are stopped at $65K, though they’ll almost certainly be reduced by the SoS. If the SoS finds that the failure to file was “willful,” the fines will be in the tens of thousands. If not, it’ll probably be in the $15K range.

    The $216,000 potential fine that’s also mentioned in the story comes from another problem revealed in the amended filings (and some poking by me). In addition to allegedly taking money OUT, Carillo was also putting money back IN, through two LLCs he owned. The law requires that LLC donations be accompanied by “written affirmations” that disclose LLC ownership. I asked Tom Lucero if Carillo ever filed those written affirmations, and the answer is no. The law calls for a civil penalty of $50 a day for each day after a party or candidate accepts an LLC donation without the affirmation. Because Carillo’s LLCs made seven such contributions going back to 2009, the potential penalty is at $216K and growing. But someone would have to file a complaint before such a fine could be levied.

    Hope that clears things up.

    1. See Bush, G.W. and Cheney, D. As in deficits don’t matter.

      See Parties, Tea: Get government out of my Medicare.

      Republicans used to pride themselves on financial management and knowledge of how things worked.

      Ha!

    2. That’s not to say that there aren’t a lot of good people in the party who are highly capable, but at this point it’s impossible to tell who is and who isn’t. It may be time to call for a central committee meeting to replace the board. I know full well that this will make me odious to a number of establishment Republicans. But after what went down, I just don’t care any longer.

        1. a pro-life, fiscally conservative Democrat committed to free markets, real energy (oil, coal & gas), and shrinking the size of government, maybe I will.

            1. In a century or two someone’s bound to hit on a method of producing alternative energy that is actually economically viable. Algae based biofuels seem like they have a bright future, but only time and the free market can say for sure.

                  1. I always use your full sentences. Your need to distort and avoid challenges ought to tell you something about how unsound your politics are.

                    1. Still for the same reason.

                      Does including the word “Maybe” make you uncomfortable?

            1. But you promised me your vote for my imaginary energy bill 🙁 I was going to power all of the coal plants with fairy dust and unicorn kisses. But noooooooooo, Ali has to pull his support at the last minute. Sheesh, some people.  

                  1. Ignoring the darker parts of fundamentalist Islam (treatment of women, etc.) in certain countries and the millions of illegal immigrants working in America seems like it would be more along the lines of the unicorn kisses, but your world certainly sounds like a nice place to live.

                    1. None? Yup, me too. Ay, there’s the rub.

                      And I said sharia law, not religious fundamentalism. Sharia has never been a legal code, much less some sort of hovering phantom trying to creep into American codes of law. American ethnocentrism is responsible entirely for the American fear of sharia.

                      The fear of religious fundamentalism is completely legitimate, but should be applied to all religions, since they all contain plenty of murderers who believe themselves to be doing God’s work.

                    2. then they’re probably not going to tell me. Heck it took two years and a fake presidential campaign to get the President of the United States to prove he was a natural born citizen.

                      Sharia law exists in some countries, and although I doubt it could ever succeed anywhere in America, that won’t stop some people from trying.

                      Most religions do not condone or advocate murder. There is not an analogous concept to jihad in Christianity.

                    3. Welcome to the 21st century. Unless you consider the war in Afghanistan a “crusade” and Obama the “leader of the Holy Roman Empire”, I think we can all agree that even the most fundamentalist of Christians don’t advocate for crusades today. However, fundamentalist Islam does advocate Jihad.

                    4. Please google “murders of abortion doctors.” Choose a site restricted search for Yahoo.com to get the most comments per news article.

                      I believe you will find that there are plenty of Christians in the world today who advocate murder.

                      I think you will also find that, although it’s possible to dig up the occasional imam who advocates the indiscriminate killing of Christians, you’ll find exactly one person who actually waged a religious war in the last decade pitting Christians against Muslims, and that’s George W. Bush. Why don’t you tell me how many Iraqi civilians have been killed so far?

                      Really, there are few things about politics that make me more angry than amused. People like you are among them. You’re so content in your ethnocentric little shell where you can look at brown people and assume that they’re so remarkably primitive that they don’t recognize as complete fucking lunatics people who advocate for murder based on religious differences. You think everything outside your holy bubble can be boiled down to “them cavemen, me enlightened!”

                      Do you see American politicians using simplistic and frequently violent, fear-mongering rhetoric to express concepts that any thinking American understands are not really simple enough for a 10 second soundbite?

                      OK, now look at the scary imam videos on YouTube where some guy is using simplistic, violent, fear-mongering rhetoric to express concepts about the same exact conflict.

                      Do you really think that one of those two is a murderous idiot (and that it’s obviously the brown one)? Or just fucking maybe, might they both be opportunists manipulating an audience even as both audience and speaker share the awareness that soundbites are relatively useless?

                    5. How many murders occur in the U.S. every year? Crime is crime. Killing 3,000 people by flying planes into the world trade towers, blowing up planes, hotels, subways, crowded malls, etc., all that is on a completely different level of “terrorism” or “war”.

                      Really, there are few things about politics that make me more angry than amused. People like you are among them. You’re so content in your liberal little shell where you can look at conservatives and assume that they’re so remarkably primitive that they don’t recognize as complete f***ing lunatics people who advocate for murder of abortion doctors. You think everything outside your leftist bubble can be boiled down to “them RAAAACIST SEXIST HOMOPHOBES, me enlightened!”

                      And who said anything about brown people? I referred to a religious doctrine of fundamentalist Islam, which crazy people of all ethnicities have used to incite terrorism. When liberals equate this to any other religious precept, we end up with dead people in the streets.

                    6. And I’m Jewish.

                      Sometimes religion kills people. Sometimes atheist fundamentalism kills people, for that matter. Rabid commitment to any ideology that is based on one group being superior to another leads to, guess what, dead people in  the streets.

                      And that goes for American exceptionalism, too.

                      For fuck’s sake. There is nothing special about Islam. It’s just another religion. Their women wear funny clothes sometimes (ever seen a nun? Or a Hasid?) and they have a holy book that says a couple batshit things (ever read Leviticus?) and they have some fucked up, crazy clerics (ever listened to, well, any televangelist or Zionist?) and they pray to God and the vast majority of them love their fellow man, love God, and want more than anything to have children who can do a little better in life than their parents did.

                      Religion is religion, the world over. Hell, even atheism is, in its way, religion.  

                    7. Christianity and Islam are fundamentally different, as any Christian or Muslim could tell you. And that is a large percentage of the world’s population. Only moral relativists lump all religions together. BTW, why are you Jewish, specifically, if it’s all the same to you?

                    8. The differences between a halal and kosher preparations are very similar too. That is what happens when you are similar Semetic tribes using mythology to explain the world they lived in, because it was the same world.  

                    9. They have differences. But they’re, as Irish Patti points out, monotheistic Abrahamic religions that encompass governance about moral behavior, proper eating, the making of war, and so on and so forth. They are based on similar mythologies and the Koran even acknowledges Jesus. Religions are religions, and like any other system of belief involving a single chosen group of people, they sometimes attract violent nutcases.

                      I identify as Jewish because that’s my heritage, but I believe in the concept of God more than I do in any doctrinal tradition. I was raised mostly agnostic but in the past few years I have come to find that my life is enriched by a relationship with God and the development of my own spiritual traditions. However, that is a deeply personal journey for me and one that I don’t feel is by any means yet complete. Hell, maybe I’ll end up a Buddhist or something.

                    10. And, yes, in the early Mohammed was more favorable towards Jesus and Christians. But that didn’t last long, and Islam has a doctrine that subsequent revelations supersede earlier ones, so it went from “people of the book” to “kill the infidel” (http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Quran/023-violence.htm), the jizya, burning of churches (as recently happened in Egypt), beheadings of Christian school grirls (WARNING, extremely graphic: http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad… etc. Obviously, many Muslims take a less literal interpretation of Qu’ranic verses. But some don’t.

                      To many Christians, Muslims, and Jews, their “religion” is the ultimate truth. For most people the fuzziness of “the concept of God” does not cut it. Either something is true, or it isn’t. If you just lump all religions together as “systems of belief”, that shows that you don’t truly believe in any one of them. Which means, as you point out, that you are essentially agnostic. You’re not really sure of what you claim to believe. For about 90% of the world, this is not good enough.

                    11. I could not possibly care less whether or not 90% of the world thinks my belief system is “good enough.” Far more than 90% of the world is not me. However, given that 16% of the world is estimated to be non-religious, I have a hard time buying the statistic you just pulled out of your ass.

                      As you have linked the islamophobia equivalent of StormFront in the previous post, I will now (as I should have done initially) adopt the assumption that you are uninterested in rational discussion and return to simply teasing you about your name.

                      BlowJobBlowJobBlowJob! Teehee.  

                    12. Sorry, but only in that little head does your imagineering of what other people’s beliefs mean to them have any merit.

                      Any one of us can believe in a fuzzy god if we want to, and just because you cannot grasp anything outside of your own indoctrination don’t be mistaken to think it is therefore capable of comprehending the ways and hows others see their universe, their role in it, and their relationship with spirit (all of which may be different than your own, or from whatever the violence-porn you like to view, it seems, is leading you to believe).

                      Arrogant brainwashed little one, to paraphrase someone you may have heard of:

                      There are more things in heaven and earth, BJ,Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

                    13. (Though I think you’d be giving the beej too much credit to assume he remembers the couple lines of Shakespeare his junior high English teacher no doubt read to his class. Seeing as he doesn’t remember that he quit this site eight months ago.)

            2. how in the world can you possibly think that you have more in common with Nancy Pelosi than conservative Republicans? I’d understand if you had been a registered Democrat your whole life, but the party switching is a big problem.

              1. but bullshit bumper-sticker rhetoric.

                You can bet your juvenile little ass that if some party was hostile to my own and my family’s religion and ethnicity, I’d be out of there so fast it would make your head spin.

                Some things in this world are more important than “PELOSI PELOSI PELOSI.”

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