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May 10, 2011 03:45 PM UTC

Tuesday Open Thread

  • by: Colorado Pols

“Stubborn and ardent clinging to one’s opinion is the best proof of stupidity.”

–Michel de Montaigne


103 thoughts on “Tuesday Open Thread


    Gallup has always found political independents to be most desirous of a third party, and 68% currently are. But right now there is also a significant party gap, with 52% of Republicans favoring a third party, compared with 33% of Democrats.

    Gallup currently finds essentially no differences in support for a third party by political ideology, with 51% of conservatives, 52% of moderates, and 52% of liberals in favor. Over time, the ideological groups’ positions have converged, with conservatives becoming more supportive.

    1. is that it’s like the Blind Men and the Elephant.

      Yes, people support the idea of a third party.

      But everybody sees something different in their vision of a third party.  Once you start asking people whether if should be to the left, right, or center of the current parties, opinions fractionate rather quickly.

        1. How about a third party that has a simple mission. To create a voluntary political system in which all participants are free to be themselves and only pay for what they use.

            1. If I only pay for what I use then …

              I haven’t had a house fire yet so why am I paying for the FD?

              I haven’t been a crime victim lately so why am I paying for PD?

              I’m decades outta school now so why am I paying for K-12?

              I’m not retired so why am I paying SocSec?

              yeah Mark G’s a regular mensa-ite but just a little logic-lite.

          1. And by “be themselves” you mean “assimilate to the standards of the dominant cultural group while making appropriate obeisance to that group if they wish to avoid violence?”

            Or in Mark G.’s fantasy land has human nature been overwritten wholesale to the point that we’re actually, for the first time in history, comfortable with people “being themselves” even if their vision of themselves looks nothing like the majority? Cause I think that makes Mark G. Lady Gaga (you know, the whole ‘new race without prejudices’ thing) and I gotta say, as bad as she looks in a clear PVC nurses’s outfit, he’d look a lot worse.

            1. It’s as simple as you give me $10, I give you $10 worth of food stamps. Taxes = fire department + however much it costs to clean up dead people denied treatment outside of where emergency rooms used to be.

              Not that complicated. Because surely Mark’s parents, and later Mark himself, were paying as much in taxes as it took to school the boy, or his children. At the time services were rendered. Not as a whole socialist “investment” thing.

          2. where you will be free to survive as best you can all on your own. Bet real estate’s a bargain in the Somalias and Waziristans of the world, too. Of course you’d better be extremely and independently wealthy because you’ll need your own armed compound, personal army (a high dollar imported force as the cheap locals can’t be trusted not to turn on you for a better offer), lots of money to buy tolerance from established local warlords, ability to supply and secure all your own power, communication, water, health and other life sustaining infrastructures. Bon Voyage, Mark. And remember: Trust no one.    

          3. demonstrate there wouldn’t be any single third party. The so called middle that dislikes what they see as the extremes on the left and right is hardly a monolithic group likely to agree on, much less coalesce around, any set of general policy goals or even what constitutes  the extreme. This is where any attempt to build a single third party with enough power to be anything but a spoiler always breaks down in our system, except in now historically remote cases where a third party supplanted one of the two major parties to become part of a new two party system, the old party (remember the Whigs?) fading away.  

            If the two party system does go under in today’s fragmented culture, it will more likely be replaced by a multi-party system with endlessly shifting coalitions and strange bedfellows than by a three party system, with some nice, reasonable centrist (whatever that means to various participants) party for the “middle”.  

        2. Seriously, LNC 2008 was hands down the best time I’ve ever had with a bunch of politicians. People with no chance of election have way more fun. If it’s ever in Colorado again I’ll definitely attend again. Everyone except Bob Barr was perfectly happy to hang out with me even knowing I was a Dem and supporting Obama.  

        1. Where does Obamas million dollar life style fit into your equation of social justice? I am not sure how constant golf, vacation and fancy galas help the homeless or the dead people on the ground?

          I wish government only did the few basic things you socialist have mentioned. Simple police and legal system rather than a 27 lb. tool belt an illegal multimillion dollar judicial complex in Denver, a fire department that did not have 343K worth of useless computers cluttering up the shelves staffed by overgrown manboys in fancy outfits sliding down gold covered poles to their marbled covered kitchen eventually to there 2 story tall movie screen while they wait for nothing, a teachers union that rivals Stalin while most of our children are too stupid to do anything other than sext, eroding highways with million dollar signs that warn me of fog that I cannot see in this is fog, and finally food stamps that get spent at strip clubs, vacations getaways and cigarettes.

          Geesh guys, if government were only what you say it is, I would be all-in.

          Where is this useful, practical, purposeful, efficient, limited government that you boast of? Is it the shining city on the hill, over there? I can’t find it, can you help me? Maybe a map would be good.  I am going over to Map quest to search for “Honest Government that accomplishes it core mission by measurable results with little to no waste or extravagance”

            1. You just have to play “Because I Got High” by Afroman while reading his posts.

              Mark G. meant to clean up his room… Mark G. meant to make sense on Pols…

              1. Its all a parody.

                I must admit I missed the joke the first time.  No one can be this stupid and still able to boot up a computer.

                MG keep rocking the comedy.

          1. … overgrown manboys in fancy outfits sliding down gold covered poles …

            wow, you got quite an imagination there MG … got yerself all in a lather there fella (that’s lather, not leather you lil’ tool-belted kid-sexting dreamer).

            Your last post is an unintentional comedic gold mine and your understanding of gov’t just a poor example of ignorance.  But keep ranting MG ’cause you do have a gift.  

    1. Now that was a funny post. I thought I would tell you liberals so you would know it is now time to laugh.

      Go ahead, read the cupcake post and then laugh out loud. Just try it. I double dog dare you.

    1. They may be stalling.

      Helpfully Bartels is only tweeting about how she was late, for her, and how our politics don’t govern our friendships.

        1. Ted Harvey just started reading the bill again.  Under the rules, each Senator gets to speak twice for ten minutes each time.

          This might be a good time to work on my irrigation pump.

        2. Senate Republicans want to make sure HB 1319 gets assigned to a Senate committee; Democrats apparently said they weren’t going to let it go to a committee. Morse and Harvey are working out a deal on the committee issue.

          1. OK, thanks.  Time to go work on the pump.

            The pump is shot, but I need to get as many fittings and valves off it as I can so I don’t have to buy all new ones for the new pump.

              1. Yeah, I didn’t turn it off either.

                Seems a bit dirty to me. Either it’s good policy, or it’s not. Lame. Do politicians always have to be such politicians? Asking of both sides, of course. Because the best way to force things back to good faith is to have both parties rush to bad. Good plan!

    2. I can’t listen in today. What’s going on with Nancy’s John’s School bill? It was up an hour ago apparently according to Twitter?

    1. Wall Street might be getting kinda antsy to put some of that cash to work. They have been sitting on trillions, waiting for a signal that repubs have a chance in ’12.

      The current crop of republican candidates, plus all this tripe about the debt ceiling, must be making them pretty nervous.

              1. David, you surely know Microsoft didn’t invent any of those?

                Bought DOS for $75k (a near clone of CP/M), had MacOS and GEM to model Windows after, Office had so many predecessors I can’t name them all, and X-Box only arrived 20 years after all the other game consoles thoroughly plowed that ground.

                Dave Cutler at DEC designed and wrote much of what Microsoft later called NT, so they hired him.

                Yes, Microsoft was very good at milking huge profits from other people’s creativity.  Not so much for coming up with any fresh ideas (Ok, they did think of “Bob” — and Gates got a wife in the bargain 😉

                1. PDP begat CP/M which begat N-DOS which became MS-DOS. But MS was quite clever in finding a good solution, porting it to the PC, and licensing it rather than selling it to IBM.

                  PARC begat Mac which begat Windows which begat OS/2. The GUI has a long history with thousands contributing to it along the way. That’s true of all inventions like this. But MS in their approach to it created something pretty compelling.

                  The same is true of virtually every product from every company. The thing is Microsoft used to be able to take what existed and from that create something better. They’ve lost that ability.

                  1. DOS was purchased by MS, not created. And Harry’s comment speaks to what I was saying.

                    None of the things you listed were original ideas with Microsoft. Virtually all of their successful products were either acquired or imitated. Nothing wrong with that, but it wasn’t MS who pioneered personal computers, their operating systems, word processors, spreadsheets, desktop publishing, database management, web browsers, game consoles, mp3 players, or search engines.

                    Microsoft’s success came from Bill Gates’ business genius. The man knew how to spot a big opportunity, and was relentless in pursuing his objectives. But if you want to track MS’s record of innovation, Microsoft Bob is the model.

                    Also, business enterprise is about as different from scientific discovery as can be, which makes your use of Newton’s quote out of place.

                    1. and if wikipedia is to be trusted, that was the product of a company called Stac Electronics. Sounds like it was innovative and successful, too, until MS, true to form, copied them and bundled it with DOS.

                    2. Because Microsoft pretended to want to buy the company.

                      Then bundled it with DOS so nobody needed to buy Stac’s product.

              2. but wasn’t DOS purchased by Gates from another party?  Windows wasn’t the GUI ripped off from Apple?  Office wasn’t Lotus and WordPerfect?

                If Microsoft has been really good at imagining anything, it’s been at imagining who they can rob next.

    2. 1. Introduce a debt ceiling bill with no spending cuts. Call R’s bluff. They’re not to be taken seriously.

      2. Under no circumstances extend the Bush tax cuts. Let them expire in the name of deficit reduction.  

      1. in order to be crazy enough for the base, they have to be too crazy for Wall Street. That will be the most interesting bluff to call.  

      2. From WH spokesman James Carney via Yahoo News:

        White House spokesman Jay Carney said both Democrats and Republicans agree on the need for deficit reduction. But it would be tantamount to holding the U.S. economy “hostage” by tying the debate over the debt limit to budget cuts, he said.

        “To hold one hostage to the other remains extremely unwise,” Carney told reporters on Air Force One as Obama flew to Texas.

  2. of non-criminal undocumented immigrants through Executive “temporary protected status or deferred adjudication.” It will put pressure on Congress to act on comprehensive immigration reform as an alternative to the President acting unilaterally. – Brent Wilkes, Exec. Dir., LULAC on Andrea Mitchell Reports

    1. political capital he’s gained by going from Obama, weakest President (according to the right) since Carter to Obrambo, cool, decisive with nerves of steel when the chips are down, tougher and more concerned with the welfare of the men under his command than the brass. Please, Mr. President, keep some of that capital for defending the middle class in the economic wars, OK?

        1. many of the “criminals” are traffic offenders and low level misdemeanors.  

          Granted it is an improvement, but when I think criminals I am not thinking about a disturbing the peace charge because you had a loud party (true story).

          I remain hopeful.  

      1. traffic throughout a huge swath of the southwest Metro area has been reduced to a virtual standstill as the city’s entire fleet of mobile news reporting vehicles clog all corridors leading to the Tancredo home.  Stay tuned for more on this breaking news story at 4:00, 6:00, and 10:00.  

    2. President Barack Obama renewed his push for comprehensive Democratic Voter reform Tuesday, citing America’s legacy as a nation of immigrants and saying that finding a solution to grant citizenship for millions of undocumented voters is critical to his re-election

  3. ..for those of you on “The Facebook,” today is International Monty Python Status Day. Keeping with my political interests, this was mine:

    “Oh, but you can’t expect to wield supreme executive power just because some watery tart threw a sword at you!”

    Please continue here on Pols….

  4. for the demise of the Trump comic relief presidential run. Guess it’s swimming with the same fishes as bin Laden:

    Donald Trump’s brief flirtation with the lead in Republican primary polls may be over, according to a new poll released Tuesday.

    The survey, conducted by the Democratic firm Public Policy Polling, found Trump garnering only 8 percent of potential Republican primary voters, down from 26 percent who said they would support him if he ran in PPP’s previous survey. That plunge in support was enough to drop him from a solid first place to a tie for fifth place.

    On the bright side, now we can all stop worrying about the risk to our national security and that of the whole world posed by the possibility of his being unduly distracted from the harrowing decisions he still faces concerning his remaining fellow has-beens on The Apprentice.  

    1. The proof of billionaire status?

      Admission records from Wharton?

      The long form anything certificate?

      Trump is a liar and a fraud.  He has never proved that he went bankrupt, nor that he ever paid taxes. He is not a billionaire.  Ross Perot was way more …everything. ANd there was no way Ross was going to win.

  5. On Facebook, US Rep Tipton has a page.  I used to be able to post on it.  It seems I have defriended.  I’m left wondering if the representative has ever looked at Udall’s or Bennett’s pages.  They are full of negative comments yet I seem to have been defriended because I reposted yesterday’s story from CoPols.  (I don’t know because I haven’t received a message of any kind.)

  6. Round 1 is over and it was really good. Very few stage props and less dancing during most performances. Probably because Lena won last year just standing in a simple black dress and singing.

    First off, I think “German comedian” is an oxymoron. The three announcers really try but…

    The ones that rocked were Russia, Switzerland, and Georgia. And Hungary, Lithuania, & Azerbijan were really good.

    On the other end, Greece and Portugal clearly are making sure they lose because they can’t afford to host next year. Portugal’s entry is for people who find the Village People too highbrow.

    1. Serbia, Lithuania, Greece, Azerbaijan, Georgia, Switzerland, Hungary, Finland, Russia and Iceland (random order – they don’t release the vote totals).

      All the songs are at YouTube – PCG watch the Russia one, when he went on the tweets from women were amazing.


    German Chancellor Angela Merkel is anything but a left-wing greenie. The party she leads, the Christian Democratic Union, is the political equivalent of the Republicans in the US. Her coalition government is decidedly pro-business. Often described as Europe’s most powerful politician, Merkel’s top priority is job creation and economic growth.

    Yet if the chancellor succeeds with her new energy policy, she will become the first leader to transform an industrialized nation from nuclear and fossil fuel energy to renewable power.

    In mid-March, Merkel stunned the German public and other governments by announcing an accelerated phasing out of all 17 German nuclear reactors as an immediate reaction to the Fukushima disaster in Japan. The chancellor now says she wants to slash the use of coal, speed up approvals for renewable energy investments, and reduce CO2 emissions drastically. That means that the 81 million Germans living between the North Sea and the Alps are supposed to cover their huge energy needs from wind, solar, geothermal, and biomass within a few decades. Indeed, by 2030 green electricity could be the dominant source of power for German factories and households.

    “We want to end the use of nuclear energy and reach the age of renewable energy as fast as possible,” Merkel said.

    1. Nuclear is only profitable with Huge government funding and support. When was the last time the free market built a nuclear plant?  Oh, yeah:  Never.

      Free market has however built wind generators, a solar electric industry and cell phone mania.

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