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December 28, 2020 07:38 AM UTC

Monday Open Thread

  • by: Colorado Pols

“There are very few monsters who warrant the fear we have of them.”

–Andre Gide


35 thoughts on “Monday Open Thread

    1. In the final episode of Season 4 of Merika there's a plot twist for the ages:  America’s greatest framework of democracy, designed by some of the wisest and most learned men who ever lived, is taken down by Louie Gohmert.

  1. Jennifer Rubin wishes Trump well in his quest to destroy the GOP

    He is on the right track, however, if he intends to go to war with the Republican Party as a means of soliciting money and/or attention from the MAGA crowd. (Republicans abandoned me — send a check!)

    Many of us in the Never Trumper camp have argued that the Republican Party is not worth preserving after years of its leaders’ moral abdication, refusal to uphold their oaths and toleration of racism. What we did not bank on was that after corrupting the party, Trump would be the perfect means of destroying the GOP. In doing so, he might finally make a contribution to U.S. democracy.

  2. I wonder which of Trump's advisors is going to get canned just weeks from the end of this administration.  They tricked the petty tyrant into signing the bill with a hilarious ruse.  Once Trump realizes he's been had, the tweet storm should be fun to read!

    According to various reports, Trump’s aides and members of Congress finally persuaded him to sign the bill by managing him like an angry toddler, letting his tantrum run its course. One of the ways they seem to have done so is by fooling him into thinking that he possesses something like a line-item veto. They unearthed a process known as “rescission,” which hasn’t been used in decades but gives the president the ability to request that individual spending items be rescinded.

    So in Trump’s statement, he proclaimed that the bill included “wasteful” spending, and “I will send back to Congress a redlined version, item by item, accompanied by the formal rescission request to Congress insisting that those funds be removed from the bill.” It was an attempted assertion of strength — but a completely hollow one, since even if the White House gets around to making the request (and I’m betting it won’t), Congress can ignore it. Which it will.

        1. Does reading Moddy’s nonsense (posted on government time) give us a second-hand experience of living in an alternative universe? Asking for a friend.  

      1. "And which group would you be rooting for?"

        Neither.  Or both… inflict total annihilation upon the other.

        If these two sides cancel one another out, the grown up can make rational policy decisions.

        I understand some of the newer squad members are contemplating not voting for Pelosi. That should shake things up.

        1. Hmmm. I’m trying to understand the rough equivalence you seem to see between the left and right: the Green New Deal getting trumped by the Q-anonsense.

          One side believes in democracy and science, the other believes in nihilism and Steve Bannon.

            1. The Green New Deal is not at all fringe, radical maybe, but not extremist. Moving quickly to renewable energy and investing in infrastructure is smack across all wings of the Democratic Party, and it enjoys a high degree of popularity in the rest of the country. 

              The extremist fringe on climate change is represented by the Republican Party and oil companies on the one hand, and … nothing on the other, unless maybe you’re thinking of the monkey wrench gang or the “bring back the bison prairie”.

              The electric economy is not only practical, it is inevitable, and quickly approaching. I’ll bet it will be hard or undesirable to buy non-electric cars within 5 years. 

              1. I'm pretty sure rural electrification was considered radical by the Republicans in 1936.  We know the Colorado Republicans thought the New Energy Economy under Ritter (as well as the passage of Amendment 37 in 2004), was a radical idea.  

                1. Climate change is real and needed to be addressed years ago. But the only way any part of the Green New Deal will become public policy (even with a 50/50 Senate) is by picking and choosing which parts are do-able and which are not. 

                  In 1993-1994, the Clintons put together this big government-run health care program. It was a piñata which went nowhere yet cost the Dems the House and Senate. By 1996, they started to approach the problem a la carte and got the CHIP program enacted in a Republican-controlled Congress.

                  Politics is the art of what is possible.

            2. I think it is fair to accuse you of reaching middle age, R&R. My father used to say that was the point at which your narrow waist and your broad mind switch places.

              You seem very unforgiving and unable to see that the political spectrum is not fixed in place. What was once on the fringe is now in the center. Movement in progress ALWAYS comes from the outside. As a number of other posters have pointed out, most of the ideas we defend today started as a movement away from the status quo.

              The left wing of the Democratic party is not simply a flip side of the right. To suggest so indicates a very myopic view of politics. In terms of tactics, rhetoric, adherence to truth, there is just no comparison.

              I don’t expect you to change your narrow mind. But please respect your fellow polsters and give up the equivalency talk. It just ain’t so.


              1. The left wing of the Democratic party is not simply a flip side of the right. To suggest so indicates a very myopic view of politics. In terms of tactics, rhetoric, adherence to truth, there is just no comparison.

                While I agree with the above criticism, I want to defend R&R against the accusation of intolerance. I assume he honestly disagrees with AOC, which is a fair point of view. I happen to think he is wrong, but not intolerant.

                I think the biggest mistake (which KWT refers to below) is to think that the ideas pushed by the left half of the Democratic Party are extremist.

                The tide is turning on the Republican Party; does anything actually remain of any value? Small c-conservatism might mean taking a cautious, deliberate or moderate approach, but that fails to deal with our outstanding problems, starting with climate change and “K-shaped” economy. Big-c Conservatism is nothing more than the terrain of Trumpists, White racists, White Evangelicals & White Supremecists. Let the GOP splinter, and let the “deplorables” wallow in their own swamp. 

                There is no possible political coalition of conservatives and moderates because once you take away the afore-mentioned deplorables, you simply don’t have very many people.

                1. Perhaps I just object to R&Rs’ constant denigration of anyone to his left as not a grown-up. His dismissiveness is very offensive. I actually used to share his point of view. Then I ran into the oil industry and its army of lawyers and lobbyists. That is where I learned that “centrism” is an open invitation to be exploited by the shape shifting liars that run O&G.

                  Mugwumps haven’t changed….and they change nothing.

                  1. The part of the Green New Deal that actually addresses climate is highly valuable. The parts that guarantee a job for every American; and guarantee an education, including higher ed., for every American….. not so much.

                    Who's going to pay for all that? 

                2. The Coalition of the Extremists voted together last night to uphold Trump's veto of the defense authorization bill which removes the names of Confederate military leaders from bases.

                  Final Vote Results for Roll Call 253 (

                  You will notice that among the names of those supporting Trump were:

                  Justin Amash

                  Ken Buck

                  Tulsi Gabbard

                  Matt Gaetz

                  Louie Gohmert

                  Ro Khanna

                  Barbara Lee (who wanted to be Kamala Harris' replacement)

                  Devin Nuñez


                  Ilan Omar

                  Greg Pence (Mikey's brother)


                  Steve Scalise

                  Even Kevin McCarthy had the good sense to not vote.

                  Diana DeGette and Joe Neguese – neither of whom would be called a centrist – both voted for the damn thing.

                  Now some new members of the Odd Squad are threatening to oppose Pelosi's re-election as speaker. Maybe they'll vote for Kevin McCarthy to show their "principles."

                  You go far enough to the left and far enough to the right and the two meet up.

                  Have a nice day!


                  1. I said I don't expect you to change your mind. You won't.

                    But your pronouncements are BS. 

                    BTW…how far to the left or right do you have to go to no longer be a "grownup"? Just disagree with party leadership…is that all it takes?



        2. Ah, yes, your “I’m the grownup in the middle” theory. 

          You would have thought LBJ too extreme with his commie Civil Rights Act, Great Society, and Voting Rights Acts. You would have been loudly proclaiming that he was just as deluded as the Klan and the Birchers. “I’m the grownup in the middle”, you’d chant. 

          Of course, FDR’s New Deal would also have been too lefty for you, although it probably saved the country from collapse and revolution by either the left or the right.

          Shit, Harry Truman and Dwight Eisenhower would be 90% with the Squad today, in substance and policy, if not style. They believed in a public health policy, non-discrimination, and progressive taxation to build up the country’s infrastructure. 

          Sometimes “the middle” moves because people demand it to move, and then the “grownup in the middle” has to hustle around to the front of the people so he can “lead” them. 

          1. Is there a particular reason that you have to go way back in time to make a point? FDR's New Deal was almost a century ago and was created to address totally different issues.

            And how would you even begin to know how someone else might have felt in the 1960s about LBJ's policies? 


  3. Words of wisdom from NFU: this. is. not. sustainable. 

  4. Trump isn't having a very good day ….

    House vote on the NDAA:  House members voted 322-87 to override the veto, That's 78.7%, slightly more than the 2/3rds needed.

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