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July 19, 2006 04:53 PM UTC

Wednesday Open Thread

  • by: Colorado Pols

You know the drill


40 thoughts on “Wednesday Open Thread

  1. Not content to deny her endorsement of Owens, she is now claiming to have been an active supporter of Heath. 

    That is completely untrue.  She was asked for support and that support was refused.

      1. She refused to support Heath but is now claiming to have done so.

        She endorsed Bill Owens, but now claims she didn’t

        Additionally, Owens is not the only Republican she has publically supported.

        On October 23, 2002, she contributed $100 to Donnetta Davidson’s Secretary of State campaign.

        On March 26, 2004, she gave $100 to Republican Regent candidate Steven Bosely.

        Perhaps she will deny that support as well.

        1. which is that Donetta Davidson was already serving as interim Secretary of State during the 2002 election, after the colossally incompetent Vicky Buckley “administration,” and DD was pretty effectively and pretty promptly cleaning up a big mess.  DD won that election by a pretty wide margin (including my vote), because she was seen as the best person by folks from across the political spectrum.  I wouldn’t hold that particular endorsement against Peggy Lamm.

    1. Ruby/Roger/Rabble

      PLEASE provide a link where Owens states Lamm endorsed him. PLEASE!

      As others have pointed out ad nauseum, anyone can put someone’s name on any list. For god’s sake, Bill Clinton was endorsed by Klingons in the National Enquirer and “didn’t say anything” about it. Does that make it true?

      Of course not. What would make it true is if Lamm herself or Owens himself made a statement to that effect.

      PLEASE provide that information or STOP!


      1. To the Owens campaign website, because it no longer exists.

        There were numerous news stories at the time, particularly one in the Statesmen in which Jody Strogoff had called Peggy Lamm about the press releases showing her as a Democrat for Owens.  Lamm acknowledged in the interview that she was supporting Owens.

        When this controversy came up again, during this campaign, Strogoff again wrote a piece on her original story.  In fact it was a very scathing attack on Lamm for ‘lying’ about what happened and the original interview with Strogoff.

        I suggest if you want the facts, pick up the phone or email Jody Strogoff at the Colorado Statesman.  I am sure she will be more than happy to tell you what happened.

        The point is, that at the time the press releases were issued by the Owens campaign, Peggy was very well aware that her name was listed as a supporter of Owens.  She was asked about that support in news interviews and did not deny it.

        If in point of fact her name was placed on the list in error she should have made it clear at the time that she was not supporting Owens.  Not only did she not take any action to have her name removed, she acknowledged that she was supporting.

        That is not the case of some known or unknown entity falsely placing a name on a list.  Lamm knew her name was on the list and she was happy to let it stay there.

        1. on her blog about a month ago:

          Hi Bernie — thanks for asking. I never supported Bill Owens. When Owens was running for reelection he put me on his endorser list without asking or telling me, and that’s what Ed Perlmutter is referencing. I supported Rollie Heath in the last gubernatorial election. Thanks again, Peggy.

          1. She did know her name was on the list and she did nothing to remove it.

            Two other Democrats were also on that list, and they asked to have their names removed:

            State Representative Frana Mace
            and State Representative Carl Miller.

            Again, in an interview with the Colorado Statesman, when she was asked about TWO press releases from the Owens campaign listing her as a supporter, she did not deny it.

            She acknowledges that she was listed as a supporter, but she cannot pretend that she didn’t know at the time.  That is just incredulous.

            It is really easy.  If she wasn’t a supporter of Owens, why did she not demand that her name be removed, and why did she not deny to the reporter that she was a supporter.

            It is pretty easy for her to spin on her website, but the facts are still the facts.

            It was bad enough that she did what she did, but lying about it now makes it worse.

      2. Susan Greene of the Denver Post wrote a story in the June 7, 2005 edition in which the Owens endorsement was discussed.

        Here is part of that story referencing  the Colorado Statesman interview:

        What Perlmutter deems to be Lamm’s political betrayal stems from two August 2002 communiquГ©s from Owens’ campaign listing her as one of the governor’s Democratic supporters.

        An article that same month in The Colorado Statesman reported Lamm was backing Owens partly because of his work on higher education and because Democratic gubernatorial candidate Rollie Heath “doesn’t have much of a shot.”

        Statesman editor Jody Hope Strogoff said Lamm didn’t deny backing Owens when interviewed in 2002 nor did she say she had been misrepresented after the story first ran. Now, as Lamm launches her congressional bid, Strogoff said she’s asking for a retraction.

        “I stand by my story. I think Peggy’s regretting now that her name was on that list,” Strogoff said.

    1. He is not required to name a running mate before the primary.

      He’s waited this long, I can’t imagine he would do it before he has to.

      Maybe he is still afraid that someone will try to write-in Holtzman and he could still lose the primary with an unpopular – too liberal – choice.

        1. Did Holtzman ever go through with his wedding?  It was supposed to have been earlier this month.  (I’ll confess, I haven’t been keeping current w/ the society section of the Post or the Rocky.) 

          1. That short guy wed.  The blissful couple enjoyed some time together and then Holtz began campaigning for Beauprez in an email he sent out to party faithful.

            Sounds like a nice honeymoon to me.

  2. I hear they want a “local issues” guy/gal.  Business oriented.  They don’t seem to care about gender, but absolutely someonew who isn’t as conservative as Bob.

  3. Hmm, anyone notice that Colorado Pols has adjusted their CD-5 line… putting Lamborn and Rivera on the same odds and Lamborn with the downward spiral? Interesting, eh?

    1. Lamborn’s odd are the same 4-1 that they’ve been since he declared for the race. I’m not really sure why they put the little down arrow by his name, maybe he’s a ‘weaker’ 4-1, but wouldn’t that be like 5-1 or 9-2 odds? Don’t really get it.

      But to answer your question, no it’s not really that interesting.

  4. Yesterday on Channel 9 (around 6:00pm) I saw an attack ad against Peggy Lamm that basically took her to task for being pro-gun.  I didn’t pay much attention to it at the time, but now I’d like to see it again.  I’m not even sure who the ad was for (I assume it was either Perlmutter or Rubenstein).  Anyone else see it or know where I can view it on-line?  Thanks.

  5. Everyone is lying except Peggy Lamm. Jody Strogoff, Governor Owens, Rollie Heath and Peggy’s best and dearest friend that great friend of reproductive freedom Lt. Gov. Norton are all lying. Sure, Peggy supported Rollie Heath. Sure, her name appeared out of the clear blue sky twice as a supporter of Owens and Norton. Can’t wait to see that John Ferrugia interview where she could not figure out where she lives.

  6. Should call for Ed Perlmutter to take down his attack ad against Peggy Lamm.  I just watched the 9News “Truth Test” of Ed’s attack ad.  This independent news source states that Ed incorrectly attacks Peggy Lamm.

    Regarding HB 95-1084, Perlmutter claims Peggy “voted to allow concealed weapons in our school” (direct quote from commercial).  This bill specifically exludes schools as an area that concealed weapons can be carried (Denver Post February 8,1995).  Ed Perlmutter is lying.

    Peggy Lamm didn’t vote for a bill making armor piercing bullots legal.  Since 1986 armor piercing bullots were already illegal under Federal Law.  Ed Perlmutter is lying.

    The truth is important, and our leaders should abide by the truth.  2 out of 3 bills Ed mentions are complete lies.  Our leaders should not lie to us 2/3 of the time.

    1. “Applicants would have to complete a firearms training course and could nto carry a concealed weapon in SCHOOLS (Caps added), courthouses, polling places, or police stations”  Denver Post February 8th, 1995  Byline:Steve Lipsher

    2. As 9 news pointed out, Perlmutter is lying in his attack ad.  These misguided attacks on Peggy’s support for background checks are preposterous considering Perlmutter himself voted for legislation that would have allowed concealed weapons in churches, nursery schools and movie theatres (SB 84, 4/13/99). 

      1. Go to
        they did not call Ed a liar / they said that she voted only once not twice to allow concealed weapons onto a school campus. The rest of the story they found to be accurate or a matter of opinion. As for the endorsement of Governor Owens they clearly thought Lamm was not telling the truth.
        Problem with Peggy Lamm is that she will lie when the truth would help.

  7. Hey all you Jeffco Dems-

    Exactly 1 year and four days after the tragedy at Columbine High School, Ed voted against HB 1214 (4/29/00) that would impose a Class 4 felony on “straw purchasers” of guns.  Straw purchasers who aquire guns for those who were not allowed to obtain the weapon themselves.

    1 year and 4 days after Columbine, Ed voted against strenthing the punishment on an adult purchasing a gun and giving it to a minor.

  8. …do Democrats care what Sean Tonner says?  Tonner is Owens’ go to guy, former chief of staff and now co-lobbyist with Deanna Perlmutter (wife of Ed) on the mysterious Lowry land deal for an undisclosed client.  Funny how Tonner seems to be involved with the Perlmutters now. 

    1. “Also bidding is LRPG, a coalition of Colorado businessmen whose identities the company refuses to reveal.

      State records show its managers are developer Lee Alpert and Pat Hamill, owner and founder of Oakwood Homes. Sources close to the company say banker Donald Sturm also is involved, but Sturm did not return calls seeking comment.

      LRPG officials have hired Denver powerbrokers Steve Farber, Ted Trimpa, Maria Garcia Berry, Deana Perlmutter and Sean Tonner to work on the bid.

      Perlmutter is the wife of 7th Congressional District Democratic candidate Ed Perlmutter.

      Tonner is Owens’ former campaign manager and recipient of a $480,000 contract to do political work for the governor. Cinamon Watson – daughter of sitting Land Board Commissioner Shirley Watson – worked with Tonner’s company, Phase Line Strategies. “

      What do we have here:  Mysterious land deal shown by “Colorado businessman whose identities the company refuses to reveal.”

      Oakwood homes huh?  Guess who their attorney is…Ed Perlmutter!!!

      Did someone say Pat Hamill?  Guess how much Pat gave Ed’s campaign…$4,200!!!

      Who does Pat hire?  Ed’s wife and Owens’ top political aide. 

      In summary, shady land/business deal where Ed is representing them, his contributors are the managers and the lobbyists are his wife and Owens’ top aide! 

  9. The constitutional ban on gay marriage was defeated yesterday in the House. During the debate, several right-wing congressmen revealed what God thinks about the gay marriage amendment:

    Rep. John Carter (R-TX): “It’s part of God’s plan for the future of mankind.”

    Rep. Mike Pence (R-IN): “It wasn’t our idea, it was God’s.”

    Rep. Bob Beauprez (R-CO): “We best not be messing with His plan.”

    Rep. Phil Gingrey (R-GA): “I think God has spoken very clearly on this issue.”

    Does Bob Beuprez believe his bullshit? Are you actually going to vote for this Neanderthal perspective???

  10. Whoever backed this Republican leadership should be ashamed.

    “Today, al-Qaida has not only regrouped, but it is on the march,” Bruce Hoffman, a terrorism expert at the Rand Corp, told the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. “Al-Qaida is now functioning exactly as its founder and leader, Osama bin Laden, envisioned it.”

  11. Starting with Cheney/Bush. Where have you gone Richard Perle, Paul Wolfowitz, Doug Feith, et al?

    In the run up to Shock and Awe, these guys were all over the place, singing from the same song book, letting us know that the fall of Saddam would bring good things throughout the Middle East. With their every pronouncement, you could hear the sound of Arab dominoes falling.

    The neocon fantasy was summed up by Dick Cheney, a charter member of the Project for a New American Century brigade, in August 2002: “Regime change in Iraq would bring about a number of benefits to the region: extremists in the region would have to rethink their strategy of jihad, moderates throughout the region would take heart, and our ability to advance the Israel/Palestinian peace process would be enhanced.”

    Wolfowitz was just as optimistic, predicting the invasion of Iraq “will be an act that will bring more stability to the region.” According to pre-war Wolfie, “With Saddam Hussein out of the picture, it’ll be a much better atmosphere for peace.”

    Same with Doug Feith, who assured us that a democratic Iraq would be “inspirational for people throughout the Middle East to try to increase the amount of freedom that they have.” He also suggested that success in Iraq “would be impressive and influential” and allow others in the region to look at the Iraqi example and say, “‘If the Iraqis can have these benefits, perhaps we can get some of these benefits for our own people.'” And he was confident that the ousting of Saddam would “influence the thinking of other states about how advisable it is for them to continue to provide safe harbor or other types of support to terrorist organizations.” (Maybe Tommy Franks knew what he was talking about when he called Feith the “stupidest guy on the face of the earth.”)

    As for Richard Perle, six months after the fall of Saddam (and months into the insurgency), the so-called Prince of Darkness was still seeing nothing but blue skies: “I think others in the region will look at Iraq and say, ‘Why can’t we rid ourselves of a regime that’s rather similar in some ways to the Iraqi regime?’ So the precedential effect of liberating Iraq may assist in bringing about democratic reform elsewhere.”

    It hasn’t exactly turned out that way, has it? The extremists are as committed to jihad as ever, the Israel/Palestinian peace process has been declared officially dead and buried by the Arab League, “democratic reforms” in the region have led to the rise of fundamentalists in Iraq, Hamas in Palestine, and the legitimization of Hezbollah in Lebanon, and Iraq has indeed proved “inspirational” — to al Qaeda and its fellow jihadists.

    The cable and Sunday shows (Ah, that damned liberal media)– where so much prewar misinformation was disseminated — need to haul in the war triumphalists and ask them to account for the gulf between their rosy predictions and the bloody reality.

    It would be interesting to see how they would react.

    These men were the architects of the administration’s imperialist policies in the Middle East. It’s time to hold them accountable for the fatally flawed blueprint and the woefully shoddy workmanship.

    1. I saw this movie about six months ago, Robert McNamara speaks about the Vietnam War and lessons he learned years later.  He speaks to eleven lessons:

      Empathize with your enemy.
      Rationality will not save us.
      There’s something beyond one’s self.
      Maximize efficiency.
      Proportionality should be a guideline in war.
      Get the data.
      Belief and seeing are both often wrong.
      Be prepared to reexamine your reasoning.
      In order to do good, you may have to engage in evil.
      Never say never.
      You can’t change human nature.

      Looking at the current events through this historical filter was interesting.  Will we hear from Rumsfeld, Pearle, others in twenty years about their lessons from the Iraq war?

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