10/15/19 Democratic Prez Debate Open Thread

Shake hands and come out swinging left.

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31 Community Comments, Facebook Comments

  1. bullshit!bullshit! says:

    Tulsi Gabbard has a bright future on the Russia Today network.

  2. RepealAndReplace says:

    Thank you, Andrew Yang….

    I still think your $1,000 per month gift to everyone is an idiotic idea but…..

    You pointed out that four other countries have tried the wealth tax and all four repealed it because it was unworkable.

  3. itlduso says:

    Warren’s wealth tax raising hundreds of billions of dollars? Let me expose a CPA secret. Whenever Congress says they’re going to simplify taxes we CPAs get to buy new cars.  Helping clients avoid a wealth tax will send yacht sales through the roof.

    • RepealAndReplace says:

      Her wealth tax plan has a provision called an exit tax which will require anyone trying to move their wealth off shore to pay 40% to leave the country.

      • itlduso says:

        Oooh, that's scary.  I can't imagine any way around that…..

        Besides, I'm discussing things like manipulating fair market value, etc., etc.

        • RepealAndReplace says:

          "I can't imagine any way around that….."

          Follow Mitt Romney's lead and move much of your stuff offshore.

          If her wealth tax were ever to get traction, it would have to go into effect immediately so people wouldn't start moving their assets before it went into effect.

           

          • VoyageurVoyageur says:

            You own a factory worth $1 billion.  You sell it to me for $100 million.  I sell you my $1 billion factory for $100 million.  On paper, neither of us is a billionaire now and we dodge th e tax.  Yes, in real life we have a mor e complex shuffle.   But that's the basic idea.

    • MADCO says:

      Candidates who go left are exciting in the primary season, but lose in the general.
      Most of most of her plans would not get through the Senate, even if they could get through the House. And the deficit will be so GINORMOUS that it's going to be scarey passing anything that isn't net positive immediately.

      Senator Sherrod Brown said today that Medicare for all  will mean a Trump second term.

      He's the last D to win state wide in Ohio – and he's right.
      Sanders, Warren, Yang, Gababrd = Trump gets reelected. (PS – any of them could say restore the draft, or a plan of national service and everyone who serves gets TRICARE for Life  but like Everify – they don't know how)

       

       

       

       

  4. MichaelBowmanMichaelBowman says:

    I'm not able to watch live, but I assume the issue of M4A has come up.  I understand the angst of how its being talked about (pitting the haves vs. have nots).  That said, whatever the next generation product might look like, let's stop calling it insurance.  Insurance, by nature, is an exclusionary product although it includes the good risks the insurance companies want and excludes bad risks they do not want. 

    Because of its exclusionary nature health care is not, never has been, never will be, a good candidate as an insurance product because everyone needs health care.  Everyone.  Without exception.  

    So let's don't frame this as socialism or capitalism…or anything in between. We need universal health care – because health care is universally needed – unlike what is provided by "insurance". 

    • MADCO says:

      Caling it Medicare for all is a loser. 

      PA and AZ and every other Trump '16 states votes Trump. And he wins.

      • kwtreekwtree says:

        MFA still has majority support, though. 

        Keep in mind that when you debate wording of plans and tax rates,  and which ones are politically most expedient, what you’re really talking about is how many Americans will die from preventable diseases and from lack of basic health care, which every other industrialized country in the world provides for its citizens. 

        • RepealAndReplace says:

          Yes it does until you tell people they must give up their insurance. Then, not so much.

        • MADCO says:

          I am aware of the real death panel.

          I am not saying universal access and coverage is a bad thing.

          The point is
          A electoral math : most Trump voters are gonna vote for him again
          B You tell some beaten down underemployed, serially employed vet in western PA the family and community can stop worrying about medical insurance and she's not paying for it, if  she believes you she may realize two things: as a vet she already doesn't pay for gov't medical insurance , and taxing the rich doesn't work – they play us and eventually the middle and bottom pay.

          I could paint a thousand pictures – most people with insurance they think they like feel like access and affordability are good goals, but not if it means they lose

          • MichaelBowmanMichaelBowman says:

            The majority of Gardner’s ilk would tell you they love the provisions of the ACA, they just hate Obamacare. 

            I’m generally in the Klobuchar camp on this one: get the public option in place and go from there. Wholesale change is unlikely with the cards we’re dealt in the Senate. Put a singular focus on two words – public option – and I think it’s a winner.

             

      • MichaelBowmanMichaelBowman says:

        I'm speaking as me, a voter.  I agree the M4A moniker has a stain.  We lose a lot in translation as we come from our own biases – but whether it's Michael Bennet's MedicareX, a public option, a blend, I want outcomes – and couldn't give two schitts what it's called (although the sloped-forehead crowd will use any means to roll back any advances we've made). 

      • Diogenesdemar says:

        They have to,  they better,  call in Medicare Something or Something . . .

        . . . because if they don’t, the ttumpublicans and Gardners are gonna’ tell 44-million old people who actually do vote that you Democrats are going to “take away” ”their” Medicare . . . 
         

        . . . you really wanna’ lose in 2020 by 40 million some highly pissed off, angry, wrinkly, plenty-of-time-to votes??

        • Duke CoxDuke Cox says:

          It is important to remember how quickly a candidate can pivot from support to non -support. 

          It has been the pounding of the drum for M4A that has strengthened the public option support. As soon as M4A weakens further in the polls, as is likely, the forces of corporate domination will come after the option with similar determination….but it is too late.

          I believe we will see a Medicare Public Option. Sooner rather than later. Give Americans a fair deal and they will take it. The insurance industry is run by "granny hosers" who love their ginormous profits…they won't go down without a fight.

           

  5. davebarnesdavebarnes says:

    There are no substantial differences in policy among the candidates. Especially when you know their wet dreams have to make it thru Congress.

    This is a wasted 2-hour show.

    The differences among them are:

    • Age
    • Personality
    • And, who is best suited to beating The Dumpster®️
    • itlduso says:

      Harris wants Trump's Twitter account to be removed?  That's as smart as believing jailed felons should have the right to vote.  No wonder her polls are cratering.

    • JohnInDenverJohnInDenver says:

      Well, Tulsi is different in policy. Foreign policy, anyway. and that is an area which Presidents actually can make a pretty clear, unobstructed choice on.

      There also seems to be some differences among the candidates in foreign trade policy. 

      None of the proposals for M4A/expand ACA/etc. would make it through Congress without substantial changes.  Green New Deal also seems pretty far-fetched to me absent some event(s) to trigger a tidal wave of partisan shift.

      Wish there was more discussion of reversing Executive actions, having a better approach to nominations of Exec staff, and talking about how to make the courts more representative in a system with life-time appointments.

  6. kwtreekwtree says:

    Pelosi Live: “All roads seem to lead to Putin with this President.”

    But…no floor vote on impeachment at this time.

     

    https://www.huffpost.com/entry/nancy-pelosi-impeachment-russian-president-putin_n_5da60800e4b002e33e761a8c

  7. kwtreekwtree says:

    NYT Debate Highlights

    Ooh, Pear…your crush Tulsi Gabbard agrees with Yang on Universal Basic Income.

    Kamala Harris reminding everyone that reproductive rights are under full on attack. 

    Everyone trying to come at Warren, hypocritically attacking her on Medicare for All, and on restoring Clinton-era tax rates that led to a budget surplus.

    Sad to see the circular firing squad in action.

     

     

     

  8. VoyageurVoyageur says:

    Amy and edgyboots both have strong nights.  So, the moderate wing of the party does well.

  9. JohnInDenverJohnInDenver says:

    I've seen several people wondering why Steyer was in the debate.  Axios has a list that helps with that:

    Democratic Q3 filings:

    1. Billionaire Tom Steyer: $49 million, $2.6 million cash on hand
      1. Spent $47 million

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