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September 23, 2019 07:03 AM UTC

Monday Open Thread

  • by: Colorado Pols

“Courage is what it takes to stand up and speak; courage is also what it takes to sit down and listen.”

–Winston Churchill


26 thoughts on “Monday Open Thread

    1. Being goaded is not a good reason for action. I’m still amazed at how, “But Mom, Billy made me do it!” had a failure rate of, if I remember correctly, 100% of the time around my house . . . even in those instances where it was sorta’ maybe a little bit true.

      Wanting to win this and being ready to win this, are not the same thing.

      Victorious warriors win first and then go to war, while defeated warriors go to war first and then seek to win.  Sun Tzu

      . . . but hell, why not, I mean things could turn out really bigly different this time, cuz’ it’s us super well-intentioned good guys who really, really want them to???

      Throwing stuff up against the wall and hoping that it somehow sticks is neither a strategy, nor a sporting event.

      1. I don't necessarily want an impeachment to go to a vote so much as a prolonged drip, drip, drip of hearings, subpeonas and contempt filings of members of the administration and his family that continue into mid-2020. Put out all the crap in the light of day as the election gets closer and closer. He'll screw up or quit.

        1. Well said, Mr. Prosser. You advocate the same process I advocated for some months ago. Unfortunately, many of the resident progressives around here want impeachment done yesterday.

        2. So far the hearings have failed to impress. No-one is actually testifying with the force they could be because Trump and Barr are muting them. If focusing on impeachment to the exclusion of legislating is a bad look for freshmen Dems in conservative areas, what is the perpetual hearing schedule?

          1. Well, if you think about a court trial some of the best evidence is not testimony but other kinds of evidence. House members just need to turn things over to their expert staffers.

        3. He's not going to quit.
          He's not going to leave unless/until the park police escort him from the building.

          You know how he says he's a great deal maker? great with debt?
          What he means is he just gets more lawyers and litigation forever. Eventually he writes a check and moves on.

          He is not going to quit. 
          Which leaves four ways he leaves office:
          – death
          – election lost
          – impeachment> Senate convction
          – alien abduction 
          – 25th amendment

          Two seem much more likely and therefore the politics of the other three must be a factor.


    1. Meanwhile, several Democratic leaders in Iowa are calling Candidates 12-19 and asking them to stay in so voters can have a say, not just arbitrary standards of the DNC and its debate mavens. Because if someone can't get to 2% support in the national or early state polls, there's a chance for a breakout in the next four months.

      And in other inconsequential news, Tulsi got to a 2% level in a third poll, meaning she is just one away from qualification by the Oct 1 deadline. 

  1. ‘We’ve been very weak’: House Democrats decry their oversight of Trump, push Pelosi on impeachment

    Democrats’ frustration with Speaker Nancy Pelosi’s unwillingness to impeach President Trump is reaching a fever pitch following reports that Trump pressured Ukraine to investigate a political rival — a step the California Democrat declined to endorse Sunday. 

    An increasingly vocal group of pro-impeachment House Democrats are starting to dismiss their own oversight of Trump as feckless, even accusing their colleagues of emboldening the president by refusing to stand up to what they see as lawless behavior.

    Two White House officials said they are also not worried about defying or mocking Nadler because Pelosi has made it clear she is not interested in impeachment and the House Democratic Caucus is split about what to do to counter Trump.

  2. Business fee hikes don’t violate TABOR, Colorado Supreme Court rules

    Filing fees for Colorado businesses aren’t going anywhere thanks to a ruling Monday from the state Supreme Court, but supporters of the Taxpayer Bill of Rights say the bigger fight about fees isn’t over.

    The National Federation of Independent Business tried unsuccessfully to convince the seven justices that all those fees Colorado businesses paid to the Secretary of State’s Office were really taxes in disguise and therefore shouldn’t have been raised since 1992 without a vote of the people.

    The court wrote in its decision that a pre-TABOR statute could give the SOS some wiggle room when it came to raising fees “as long as these adjustments didn’t create a new tax, tax rate increase, or a tax policy change directly causing a net revenue gain, then the adjustments don’t trigger TABOR.”

    1. Ha . There will be no joy at the Independence Institute today. Caldara’s been after those modest business fees for more than a decade. The problem, as they see it, is that the election side of the Secretary of State’s office is supported by fees from the business side….and without those fees, Colorado wouldn’t be doing such a bang up job conducting secure, high turn out elections. 

      Because when more people vote, Democrats tend to win.

  3. Dems moving to formally condemn Trump as impeachment fever grows

    Pelosi has been coming under increasing pressure to embrace impeachment as a growing number of freshman Democrats in swing districts rethink their stance after Trump’s alleged attempt to pressure Ukrainian officials in an an effort to tarnish the former vice president, the frontrunner for the 2020 Democratic nomination.

    Trump has publicly acknowledged discussing Biden during a call with the Ukrainian president but has defiantly insisted he did nothing wrong. The notion that the president potentially sought foreign interference to harm a political rival and aid his own reelection has led to an explosive and rapidly changing dynamic within the House Democratic Caucus.

    Seven freshman Democrats: These allegations are a threat to all we have sworn to protect

    By Gil Cisneros, Jason Crow, Chrissy Houlahan, Elaine Luria, Mikie Sherrill, Elissa Slotkin and Abigail Spanberger 

    If these allegations are true, we believe these actions represent an impeachable offense. We do not arrive at this conclusion lightly, and we call on our colleagues in Congress to consider the use of all congressional authorities available to us, including the power of “inherent contempt” and impeachment hearings, to address these new allegations, find the truth and protect our national security.

  4. Biden-Linked Firm Tests Messages to Undercut ‘Medicare for All’

    The survey, commissioned by the centrist Democratic think tank Third Way, found that primary voters start off favoring the government-run health care system by a margin of 70% to 21%, but can be persuaded to oppose it. The study showed that Democrats are most swayed by the arguments that the program would impose a heavy cost on taxpayers and threaten Medicare for senior citizens.

    The poll was conducted by Lisa Grove of Anzalone Liszt Grove Research. Her partner, John Anzalone, is the chief pollster and an adviser to Biden, who opposes Medicare for All and wants to make government-run insurance optional.

    1. Sounds familiar…most people don't bother to actually read policies – they'll believe whatever their preferred propaganda outlet tells them the policy says.

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