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May 18, 2006 08:00 AM UTC

Well, Would You Look at Herb?

  • by: Colorado Pols

We?ve been plenty tough on our old pal Herb Rubenstein over the last year or so, in part because we always found him amusing as a candidate. Herb had some crazy ideas for his campaign when he first started out, which is why we never really considered him to be a serious candidate in CD-7. But a funny thing happened in the last couple of months ? Herb became relevant. We hear that he?ll easily have enough signatures to qualify for the primary ballot, but he may ? may ? be able to do more than that on August 8.

Ol? Herb just dropped one of the more creative pieces of mail we?ve seen lately, printed on paper that is ?untearable? as an example of what he calls his ?unrippable pledge? to vote to end the Iraq war and for real health care reform. If he doesn?t do that, says the mail piece, he won?t run for re-election. Herb also has a slick new Web site and has hired a good direct-mail firm that did mail all over Colorado in 2004. He has also hired a creative media guy, Deno Seder, who is known for witty political ads that could be the sort of quirky approach that might get Herb some traction (check out the David Duke/Jeopardy ad).

All of that sounds nice, but can Herb really win a three-way primary in one of the most competitive congressional seats in the country?

Probably not, but he?s suddenly a player in this race. When Herb first started out, he looked like Larry Johnson ? one of those people you?ve never heard of who announces their candidacy for an office they probably shouldn?t be running for. Candidates like Larry Johnson eventually fade away when they show an inability to raise money and to run an effective campaign that lands them on the ballot; basically, they run for office just for the hell of it, with no real plan or serious intentions of making it stick. But Herb kept plugging along, and now he?s just a bottle of lightning away from being the Democratic nominee for congress.

Just because the odds of Herb actually winning the nomination aren?t very good, it doesn?t mean that he doesn?t matter. His incessant anti-Iraq war pledge has given him some respectability, and forced opponents Peggy Lamm and Ed Perlmutter to come out more on the issue, and now Herb is in a position to really affect the outcome of the Democratic primary.

It remains to be seen which candidate ? Lamm or Perlmutter ? that Herb will take the most votes from, but he does matter all of a sudden. We wouldn’t have predicted that one.


73 thoughts on “Well, Would You Look at Herb?

  1. It’s good to see Herb getting some respect around here.  It’s hard enough to run for office, but being depicted as a joke can’t be too much fun.

  2. Will he be ending war before or after he makes my 75 year old mother put a breath-alzyer in her car?
    Yep, internet ads are way cool…’cept my mom doesn’t even own a computer.  She does vote in primaries though, but isn’t a fan of eco-scary paper. See, she has grand-children. Five of them.  She kinda likes trees and hates landfills.

  3. Deno Seder does not do Internet Ads. Deno does ads for broadcast television. Herb is prepared to wage a serious campaign. If Grandma owns a TV she will be seeing ads for Rubenstein

  4. Herb had some crazy ideas for his campaign when he first started out

    His crazy ideas haven’t gone anywhere. He’s just learned not to talk about them in public.

  5. If Grandma owns a TV she will be seeing ads for Rubenstein

    Hell no, she’ll be in the hospital from trying to blow in that damn breath-alyzer, while trying to merge onto I-70.
    If she manages to do that, she’ll be waiting in line at the shop where they upload the data into the computer that analyses the breath-alyzer data once a month.

  6. Feel sorry for Herb (Lauren), slap him on the back, praise him (Hnsb) I will judge him by having met him and spoken face to face with him. He’s pompous, opinionated, refused to listen to me about health care issues (I work in that field). He argued with the other people in our group and insisted, in a very childish way, that his ideas and approach were correct and we were incorrect. He is the antithesis of an excellent campaigner, instead of shutting his mouth and listening to the people around him he blathered on and on in a very superior manner. AND no one was asking him questions, we were expressing our concerns and wanted him to hear what we had to say.  Note to Herb: courteously listen to the people you’re asking to vote for you.  I’ve met several of our House members, both R & D and they always concentrated on what the people they were talking to were saying. I’ve spoken to Joel Hefley many times and he always gave me the courtesy of listening very intently to what I was talking about.  I’ve spoken to both Ed P and Peggy L and they always listened in a very intense and concentrated way. Herb is an egotistical, childish little boy, PLAYING at running for office.  Cool web graphics/website, cool funny campaign ads, un-tearable paper are gimmicks they are not excellent campaigning. Excellent campaigning comes from connecting to your voters face to face. Herb, you lose.

  7. Herb is the ONLY candidate in CD7 willing to discuss the failed war on drugs. He has voiced support for reforming our nation’s marijuana laws at the federal level, and last week at a public Democratic forum he announced his support for the statewide initiative to make marijuana legal for adults in Colorado. Herb for herb 2006!

  8. If Herb is willing to take away power from the Federal Government, including this perposterous war in Iraq, and he is willing to discuss alternatives in the fight against drugs, then I will listen to REAL solutions.  However, I have not seen a plan from Herb Rubenstein or anyone else for that matter that can make marijuana a benefit to the public.  Is he suggesting that we sell it in the department stores and tax it? 

    When Herb Rubenstein can bring a plan forward that WILL solve our war on drugs, then I will vote for him.  Otherwise, I don’t see a benefit to opening up more marijuana usage.

  9. nemasis-

    FINALLY! Someone else who feels this way about Herb! I have met and spoken to all of the CD-7 candidates multiple times, and each time, Herb comes off as a condescending know-it-all. A few years in a think tank does not a good politican make.

    And neither does a laundry list of appealing, but often bizarre, issue stances. Just because Herb’s bizarre policies no longer appear on his website mean that they’ve disappeared, or that he’s somehow now a more “legitimate” candidate. Ask Herb about cameras in classrooms. Ask Herb about his anti-progressive tax policy that unfairly targets the lower class and students. Ask Herb about breathalizers in cars. He won’t hesitate to open his mouth and boldly defend these insane, impossible to enforce, ANTI-Democratic policies. Then he will ask you for a signature.

    The people of CD-7 deserve a candidate with legislative EXPERIENCE. I’ll give credit to Peggy and Ed any day over Herb, at least they would know how to behave as a freshman congressperson.

  10. Big deal, so Herb has a mail piece that can’t be torn up.  That is hardly the important issue at hand.  Herb is not in the publishing business.  If were going to have a debate about the political scene and his ideas that sounds fair.  If not, then lets discuss the trash and garbage, the fact that Colorado doesn’t mandate any recycling of non-tearable products. 

    Indeed, maybe Herb is starting a new trend (or an old one) … a penny back for all the paper returned.  SAVE THE TREES!  🙂  Colorado as I recall used to collect newspapers for recycling, what happened to that idea?  Herb has good ideas.  And at least he is encouraging the debate.

  11. I appreciate Herb’s contribution the race, and I feel that he adds a valuable commentary to the other two candidates.  Unfortunately, many of his policies are out of touch with reality (as many have articulated in great detail), and he isn’t really focused on CD7 so much as just finding his way into office on national issues.

    It’s too bad he has removed some of his more ‘out there’ policy concepts from his website.  For a candidate that promotes himself as the most progressive and activist option, he shouldn’t shy away from the ideas that he has promoted yet feels may hurt his electoral chances.  If he wants to rally support, attempting to cover up his less popular opinions is going to come back around on him.

    Untearable paper is clever, but it seems he’s willing to tear away a formerly prominent part of his agenda in order to collect voter support.

  12. Speaking of Perlmutter, what’s the deal with this ridiculous email crowing about Lamm’s residency, right after it’s announced that there’s no foul?

    That’s just cheap crap.


    Rather than attack paper products, and those who use them, why not have a debate on the viability of Herb Rubenstein’s ideas?  Which of his ideas can we examine?  Should we examine the pull-out of Iraq?  Should we debate the raising of revenues for our transportation system?  Maybe, when it comes down to a debate between the candidates, the public will judge “the viability” of these ideas without all the nasty name calling by Republicans? 

    A fair debate over his ideas may provide some real answers … unless, you wish politics to continue at the same manner, where we have a 21% approval for Congress?  If you wish to realize why the country and its politics are not solving our problems, then maybe it is because we are failing at bringing “ideas” to the forum of public opinion.  I think could be that voice, a place to exchange and examine opinion.  But since a candidate at the moment is determined by the value of his/her name, either in money or in how we can act like children over “name calling” to render who should be elected, we never really find out “who” is the best candidate … do we?

    I think Herb is all about changing a broken political process that refuses to examine real problems and offer REAL solutions.  If that is not what you want in a political candidate, then why are you here?

  14. Oh, thank you wOndermOnkey! I’m growing weary hearing about how Herb is “all about changing a broken political process” from folks that don’t know anything (obviously) about Herb’s stances.

    His consumption tax idea is particularly concerning to me.

    Thanks for putting up the link.

  15. Pager and wOndermOnkey —

    I read the link you provided.  These are my thoughts about these concepts —

    1)  Privacy issues: webcams in classrooms …

    I don’t have a problem with webcams in classrooms for several reasons.  I think (since Columbine) we have a responsibility to make our classroons safe for children.  Currently, we have in public areas cameras that a purposefully used to protect the public.  We have cameras at intersections, public buildings and other such locations (even bars in Lakewood — like Jose O’Sheas).  Other such improvements in public safety has included cameras in police cars (which protect you and your rights — many cases have been directly tied to cameras that show illegal activity — saving lives).  Are you suggesting that the protection against another Columbine in a classroom is not a good idea?  I think it is a wise debate, since without a debate over this issue, we may find ourselves hidden from the true realities of our demands on public safety and our rights of persoanl liberty.  I personally don’t think Herb was angled to remove personal liberty, but actually in the protection of children after they leave our homes. 

    2) breathalizers in every car, regardless of past activity —

    In my opinion, even though I don’t know of someone who has lost a family member from someone who is drunk or on drugs, running through a red light and killing innocent people, I think if we can stop someone from driving a motor vehicle and killing innocent people is a good idea.  This is especially a good idea when it does not harm others, for those in the general public who are interested in safe streets and in the reduction of insurance rates.  Colorado is among the highest in the nation in insurance rates, because we not only allow convicted DUI offenses from other states to receive a drivers license, but we also don’t have much of a plan to reduce traffic deaths in Colorado.  Are you suggesting that we ignore these problems and not come up with a way to improve public safety, without having you pay the cost of those who break the law?  Do you want to pay for those individuals who continually break the law by endangering the public? 

    3) Then the tax stuff, which really bothers me. I had a chance to talk with him on 4/29 —

    As I understand it, Herb Rubenstein has suggested a tax on “Higher calorie” foods (i.e. junk food- the cheap stuff) to help reduce the harmful effects on children.  Actually, we have such at the moment … we heavily tax alcohol and cigarettes.  We have eliminated caffine drinks from classrooms in order to help protect our children too … this is another way to improve public health, through better lifestyles, decreasing obesity.  Nationally, our number one killer of Americans are heart attacks and deaths from auto accidents (that is what I understand).  Are you against saving people lives? 

    What is your opinion of this statement:

    “Personally, I would rather tax the public for items that are bad for them, rather than taxing everyone for everything that is both good or bad.”

  16. Patriot, (you sound just like Herb, what a coincidence huh?)
    Why would I want to discuss issues about a candidate who would not listen to me face to face? This is not JUST about where Herb stands on the issues. How will he represent me if he won’t listen to me? How will he represent me if he treats me like a piece of sh*t. I was met with much more courtesey by Rep. Keith King at the legislature than Herb, and Keith and I disagree on about 99% of the things we discuss. The issues don’t matter if its in an arrogant, obnoxious, know-it-all suit.

  17. Hey, just because I think his ideas are progressive, does not make me into a carbon copy of him … his opinions are a reflection of his personal experiences, level of education and personal values. 

    In my opinion, he will not be able to conform his thoughts to only your views.  His job is to make recommendations on what the Democrats in the CD-7 district are.  In other words, he will recieve ideas from many different sources.  The better candidate will likely be open to all the viewpoints that the public will offer.

  18. By the way, you can say the word sh*t if you want to … the 1st Amendment allows for it on the Internet … it is not regulated.  However, I appreciate the fact that your discussion did not include it … or did it?

  19. The better candidate will likely be open to all the viewpoints that the public will offer.


    That is the point!  Let’s review.  Herb moved here a year ago with a 100 point document telling the folks in CD-7 that he had selected a “Dem winnable” district to run in.  He dictated to the residents that he will be annointed as their Representative to Congress based upon HIS gargantuan agenda.  Let us also review that he came here from Maryland- read that, suburban D.C. and therefore wishes for the CD-7 residents to pay him $200,000+ a year to go back where he came from.

    We are not buying what he’s selling.

  20. ummmm.  If you think I’m going to vote for Peggy Lamm who uses the name of her not-relative and moved into the district of CD-7 for the run for Congresss … or Mr. Mutter who is flushed with oil money coming out his ears … not talking about issues … when as I understand Herb Rubenstein wants to talk about issues …

    “What is so bad about someone who is a prior Professor in Colorado, who has knowledge and experience from Washington D.C. who wishes to give his best knowledge and abilities to the people in his district?  Are you going to pre-judge every candidate who has moved?  I guess that President Clinton and others cannot live in more than one part of the country?  Do you know that many wealthy people have homes in more than one place in the country. 

    If Herb has decided to move to Colorado, that is his personal choice.  I’m not going to cast my ballot for a candidate based upon which of the homes he/she lives in.  I bet herb and others have residency in more than one place in their lives.  Wake-up, take a moment to consider his ideas, rather than just close your doorway to “viewpoints” that carry the weight of his political background. 

    If you can prove to me that Peggy or Ed are better candidates, based upon their ideas, then I will vote for that candidate.

  21. Patriot, did you forget to take your meds? First you say:

    The better candidate will likely be open to all the viewpoints that the public will offer.

    Then, you say:

    If you can prove to me that Peggy or Ed are better candidates, based upon their ideas, then I will vote for that candidate.

    You are either suffering from multi-personality disorder, or the magnitude of your intellectual dishonesty knows no bounds.

  22. 1)Privacy issues: webcams in classrooms

    This isn’t about additional security cameras to protect people. If the goal was security, as you claim, closed-circuit systems exist already and we’d be discussing the merits of using them in schools. This is about web-enabled cameras focused on every child in America. As it was explained to our group when he came and talked, the purpose here is so that A) parents can “check up” on their kids at school B) teachers can be “held accountable” for what happens in their classrooms and C) there is evidence of what happened if a lawsuit results from something classroom based. The danger with this and many of Herb’s positions is that his ideas create insanely bad scenarios if anything goes wrong and they’re only half-implemented (as would most likely be the case w/ a freshman Congressman’s legislation.) Suddenly these cameras are being used to watch what teachers are saying, or pedophiles have a new favorite hangout.

    2) breathalizers in every car, regardless of past activity –

    Do you want to pay for those individuals who continually break the law by endangering the public?
    No! Not at all! Provisions exist to equip an offender’s car with the necessary apparatus, or to punish driver’s who ignore the law. That’s not the point. If you want higher standards in Colorado, I agree with that. We’re talking about Herb’s nationwide solution. Implementation is a problem, since automakers are notoriously resistant to such things. Continuation is a problem, since widespread use of such a system would lead to inevitable hacks or bypass methods by those who still wish to drive after drinking. The proposed method is hazardous, since a car would *shut down in traffic* if the driver’s BAC passed a certain point. Then there’s the principle of “innocent until proven guilty” that is part of that whole Constitution thing. Could a cop stop you on the street and force you to prove that you’re not on your way to steal something or kill someone? No. So why is this different? “Prove you’re not a danger before you can continue with your day.” Sounds like a free and open society to me.

    3) Then the tax stuff, which really bothers me. I had a chance to talk with him on 4/29 —
    Are you against saving people lives?

    I’m all for saving lives. Again, you miss the point. I’ll quote myself in the comments in that thread you apparently didn’t read:
    “First I have to say that I think there’s a difference between a “sin tax” and a consumption tax. Alcohol and tobacco are not necessary items for survival (though I know people who would disagree with that.) I would also argue that taxes on alcohol raise much more money from a $500 bottle of wine than a 6-pack of Natty Light. Cheap food is, unfortunately, a necessity to much of America which is part of why we have problems with obesity.”

    We can’t legislate that people eat more healthy foods, because quite simply that is what is cheap. Are we going to subsidize fruits and vegetables so those are as affordable as twinkies and McD’s dollar menu? Because that’s not part of the plan. Herb would make affordable food unreachable for the poor and that’s a problem, even if currently affordable food is bad for you. I agree there is a major problem to be addressed, but taking away people’s ability to eat is not the way to do it.

    What is your opinion of this statement:
    “Personally, I would rather tax the public for items that are bad for them, rather than taxing everyone for everything that is both good or bad.”

    My opinion of that statement is that it ignores reality, like much of Herb’s suggested policy. If it were that simple, fine, tax the bad stuff. But it’s not that simple. First, who defines “bad”? Pre-made burgers? Just those with cheese? Or in the grocery stores…beef? Cheese? Soda? Where’s the calorie cutoff? What about condoms? Birth control? Educational videos that teach us about evolution? Hummers? Then, in the case of food, how do you make up for creating unobtainable sustenance? Have you suddenly created millions of jobs? Subsidized healthy foods with the tax revenue? Given tax rebates for # of vegetables purchased? You can’t propose that kind of change without thinking through the consequences. And again, in the cases where Herb has done so, what happens when his bill is modified in committee?

    Herb is full of ideas. Like I said earlier, he’s learned not to talk about the strange ones. I give him credit where he deserves it, on the war and sticking to issues. But I see too much danger in sending someone to Congress who has these weird think-tank ideas in the back of his head which threaten to cause him to vote for half-assed, not-at-all-Democratic ideas because he sees a picture larger than it is in his power to create.

  23. dimwitt tmgt —

    What is wrong with you?  Are you so blind that you can’t put two and two together … sorry for being so blunt, but golly …

    The better candidtate will (I will spell it out for you) !!!

    1) The better candidate will likely be open to all the viewpoints that the public will offer.

    2) If you can prove to me that Peggy or Ed are better candidates, based upon their ideas, then I will vote for that candidate.

    I guess you recommend that we DON’T consider ALL the ideas … ???  With the candidate that IS WILLING, like Herb seems to be, to consider ALL the ideas … then, if ONLY Peggy and Herb can actually articulate substance with those ideas, then you might persuade my vote. 

    I want someone willing to “DEBATE” and someone willing to provide REAL solutions … 

    A candidate like Ed who never says anything will not get my vote.  I don’t know what any of the two other candidates has to say.  IS this because they are affraid to debate these ideas?

  24. WOndermOnkey —

    If you are a Democrat, as you suggest, then you will be infavor of some tax revenue that is shared with the public in a fair manner.  As it currently stands, the GOP (which you are) likes to tax the middle class and the poor for all the revenue.  If we were to tax the items that are unheathly, as an example, that would be a net benefit to everyone, just as a tax on cigarettes has been one answer to reduce sales and provide income for education against its use.  If you carry that idea to items that are what the “MAJORITY” of public believes makes sense, (EXAMPLE: create an incentive for NO TAX on healthy food, where the unhealthy pays a bit more … this is just like cigarettes is it not?  Why do we tax the bad stuff do you wonder?” 


    You might ask Herb these questions, because he is the one knowledgeable about these ideas.  I cannot speak for him, but I think his ideas might hold some alternatives to universal taxes, that seem to punish the middle class and the poor.  Would you be happy if we created a luxury tax?  What would your solution be? 

    At least, his ideas have drawn about some debate over the issue of rescuing our economy from the pits.  I have not seen any ideas from the other candidates?  Clinton had some great ideas too … and his term placed our economy into the black, not red.

  25. Patriot,

    What is wrong with me? Well, in my opinion, not a damn thing.
    As to debate, sorry you haven’t been to the various forums, none of the Candidates are responsible for that.  All three of them have been making the rounds, and doing a fabulous job of it.

    Your ignorance notwithstanding, they all have substantive issues that they care about.

    Just a quick drive-by of the Lamm and Perlmutter sites reveals-
    Lamm issues:

    Reproductive Rights
    Peggy Lamm supports a woman’s constitutional right to choose and opposes any efforts to curtail that right. She believes we should strive to reduce the number of abortions and that every child should be
    Creating JobsColorado’s local economy has suffered under the Bush/Owens regime. Today there are working Coloradans who are worried about job security, and many men and women struggle daily to find the jobs they need…
    Real Education Reform
    As a former school teacher whose son attends Colorado public schools, Peggy Lamm knows that giving every child the opportunity for a great education is our most important investment. She supports real…
    Protecting Social SecurityThe 7th CD is not well represented when the Republican incumbent endorses the most extreme Republican plan to privatize Social Security. This scheme robs our greatest generation of the safety net they…
    Affordable Health CarePeggy is committed to providing affordable, accessible health care to all Coloradans. Everyone should be able to afford to see a doctor for basic health care needs. Access to medical care should not be…

    Perlmutter Issues:

    Fiscal Responsibility  “The Republicans in Washington have been spending YOUR money like drunken sailors on leave. As Senate President Pro Tem, I helped pass…
    Jobs & Economic Vitality “We are putting a terrible squeeze on working people and families. It’s time to knock some sense into the Washington politicians….
    Amber Alert System for SeniorsEd Perlmutter, Democratic candidate for the 7th Congressional District, praised Sen. Peter Groff’s efforts to successfully pass State Senate Bill 57 which…
    The Bush Administration and Republican leaders totally miscalculated the effort and time that it would take to win in Iraq. The cost in terms of…
    Crooks and Cronies.  Washington DC seems filled to overflowing with them.  Indictments are issued on a weekly and sometimes daily…
    Reproductive Rights
    I worry that a woman’s right to reproductive freedom is in jeopardy in this Nation. And when elected I will be a strong voice…
    Civil Rights / Human Rights
    It is without reservation that I am proud to endorse the Colorado Domestic Partnership Benefits and Responsibilities Act.  My friends in…
    Safety & Security
      “We must develop a defense policy that is tough, smart and principled.
      The fight against global terrorism must be our shared mission, but…
    Quality of Life
      “We must create more energy independence in America. I led the fight for safe, clean renewable energy at the statehouse and will…

  26. Patriot-
    My solution? I’m OK with an income tax personally. I think richer people should pay a higher percentage of their income, since they can afford it, and the lower classes pay less. Hmmm…that sounds familiar, doesn’t it? There are far too many tax loopholes and those should be eliminated. The rich should pay their share, like they do in other countries. Luxury tax? Fine. Those are only $75 dollars anyway (Monopoly anyone?) I’d be fine with taxless healthier foods too, as you suggest. Not a bad idea.

    My point is PRECISELY that Herb’s idea would SHIFT TAX BURDEN unduly to the middle class and the poor, as do all consumption taxes. The rich spend only a fraction of their money, so quite a bit less of their income is taxed. What’s so hard about that? If anyone is being called a “suggested Democrat” but “actually GOP” in this debate it’s Herb. That’s my point. It’s not a Democratic thing to even suggest.

    I have asked Herb about these things, and he explained to me how he would have simultaneously created millions of jobs so there just wouldn’t be any poor people any more. Again, a bit of a stretch for a freshman Congressman, or any single human being.

    The other candidates have not come up with crazily new programs and ideas, no. They talk about issues and how they feel about them. Their focus is on what they could ACTUALLY DO if they get to Congress, not how to make over society should they suddenly become omnipotent.  Again, Herb’s idea that he can remake society makes him a bizarrely unpredictable vote, should he get to Congress. His thinking on non-front-page issues shows him to not be a Progressive or even Democratic thinker.

  27. WOnderMOnkey and tmgt —

    What in the world is wrong with a candidate who wants to bring “debate” to the forum of public opinion.  It is likely that the ideas through a session of “brainstorming” with the public is better than a few people on a select committee of members.  The more possible ideas brought to the table, the better the outcome. 

    If we would have had that type of “roundtable” for our problems, then we would have a more informed and active voter.  A great many of our public feels that their ideas don’t matter too much, since they are detached from the discussion.  Interaction with the public is key. 

    The general public feels so detached from current government, that they assume that their voice does not matter anymore.  I think Herb wants more public debate … coming up with solutions that a majority agrees with …

    Maybe you should pick up the phone and call Herb Rubenstein and his campaign staff about how best we can create that type of discussion?

  28. wOnderMOnkey —

    Good points in the prior blog.  I think Herb is throwing ideas out there to get attention, in part.  Yes, not every idea is a good one until it is refined and improved.  A great portion of the good ideas never reach Congress, for the simply reason of “playing with party politics.”  Ok.  Lets say you’re really a concerned democrat over the issue of unfair taxes.  Yes, I agree and the majority of the public agrees that the middle class is unfairly targeted.  I also agree that we need to be progressive in redefining the tax system and political system from a war between political party, and more centered on “solutions.”  At the moment, the members of Congress are not holding on to their jobs anyway, with the current system … so we may as well take a few sensible chances.  If we continue on the same course, nothing will improve.  So, lets explore with the help of all the public in the great debate?

    I do think it makes sense to eliminate the tax on apples, to place a tax on a product that is known to cause cancer.  If we strengthen and reward certain items with a tax or without, we can create a healthier society, and thus reduce the cost of health care … living more active and healthier lives.  I think that makes sense … but I’m only one person.  The vote of everyone is what truly matters … I’m just one speck of space material, seeking some answers with very rough ideas at the beginning.  At least, WE are trying (you are here debating with me) … many think politics has no relevance to them — thus they don’t debate. 

    I think a democracy fails when we stop debating, seeking ideas from everyone.

  29. What’s wrong with it? Nothing. Debate is good. Debate is positive. I was debating his stances on issues. I do not agree with his stances on many issues, and I think the idea that he is a good Democratic/Leftist candidate is laughable, for the reasons expressed above. Ideas are good, but the mere having of ideas should not be the sole determinant of a vote. Think about what those ideas say about the person who has them, and what they would do if elected, and that’s where I have problems with Herb.

  30. Holy Crapola Batman!
    Your circular reasoning is just tedious.
    This is about Effective Legislating not rewriting Walden II. Get a grip.
    The Electorate is turned off, and disenfranchised, because the wingnuts on the far left and far right are deafening in their nonsensical noises.
    Really, I have tried seeing things from your point of view, but I don’t think I can stick my head that far up my ass.

  31. I understand.  It will be too bad if we cannot find enough candidates for the NEW Congress in 2008 that will not see and understand your wisdom and mine.  I think our country may have “issues” over how to debate, that provides room for not having the best solution everytime from one “know it all” candidate.  First we need crazy ideas, then refine them … consider them.  If we continue to only seek answers from a limited selective power monger perspective, then what are the outcomes?  I think we fail to bring our ideas together for the common good — very sad. 

    In the early days of this country, people could bring their ideas forward … “thoughts” … even when they sounded off the wall.  They considered those ideas as well, since “Freedom of Speech” allowed for all the ideas …

    rather than just from the position of an authortarian style government — which in time oppresses society and destroys democracy.

  32. tmgt — (Mr. Rotten Apple?)

    You have a right to your opinion, even though I don’t agree with it.  You must want to hold all that power to yourself, or for only the controling GOP.  I don’t like putting all of my apples into one bucket of the GOP, you can’t trust them anymore.  They are turning out to be “rotten apples.”

  33. Patriot-
      I have a hard time believing Herb put these ideas out there just for attention. He has (wisely) removed them from his website, which he wouldn’t have done if they were only there to spark debate. These are things he believes and programs he would try to implement if he had the chance. Ask him about any of it. He’ll tell you all about it. These aren’t “conversation starters,” they’re policy positions that could lead him to some really non-Democratic voting, should he make it to Congress. Why should we, as Democrats, trust him to represent us when these are the kinds of things he thinks about? I would much rather put my trust in Ed, because while I don’t like every little thing necessarily, I have much more confidence that he would at least act like a Democrat, as he has in the past when he held office. Herb is far too unknown in that regard.

  34. wOnderMOnkey —

    What if a system of taxes on bad foor were to generate enough revenue that it would reward you to eat more fruits and vegetables?  Thus, cancer rates would go down dramatically?  Did you know that we are (from the department of health and nutrition) supposed to eat 7 helpings per day (fruits and veg) for our recommended about to fight against cancer, diabetes and other direct health causes, and other heart related diseases? 

    Does that idea make any sense?

  35. wOnderMOnkey —

    Ok … granted.  Lets say Ed wins … at least the discussion portions are welcomed and we can duplicate such a forum elsewhere.  I proudly stand on FREEDOM OF SPEECH … and FREEDOM OF RELIGION … so, whoever gets the nod, I hope like crazy we can start to take back the country from the horrendous power grab of the Republican Party. 

    The country will not survive with the ruineous GOP plans anymore — that is my opinion.  I want solutions, not more of the same government strategy that takes away our right of discussion and awareness.  We need more of WE THE PEOPLE, and not more of wreckless GOP control … a FASCISM  country.

  36. Patriot-
      I understand the idea behind the consumption tax as Herb proposed it. Force people to buy healthier food, which leads to better health over all. Better health is good. So why not work on making healthy food affordable then? Fix the tax system so the rich are really paying their share, sure, but if you levy a tax on “bad” food (as defined by…which food lobby?) you cripple the ability of a large segment of the population to eat overnight, and I see a problem with that. Make healthy food just as cheap and accessible, *then* work on getting people to make better choices, or tax “bad” foods only then, once the alternatives are affordable.

    We’re back to the same problem. If any of Herb’s ideas are implemented backwards or incompletely, it’s disaster.

    I agree with your other sentiment though. We can’t take any more GOP one-sided control. We need Dems in there from all over the country.

  37. wOndermOnkey —

    I will agree on your direction of thought IN … his new vamped website is looking very typical of a GOP candidate.  He is losing his warmth and fuzziness of the past — is this because he is trying to change his image from a perception of “crazy ideas” or that he is actually not as liberal as we thought?  Is he changing his image to conform to what has been viewed as too far-left?  Anyone who appears to be too far-left may lose votes.  Anyone on the right at all, has most certainly a starting point of lost votes from the gate. 

    Untested, Herb might be a risk.  He could greatly change that level of perceived risk with an endorcement from those who are liberal.  And how many candidates actually turn out to be what they say? 

    I’m with you … we can’t allow for a lost seat to the GOP, where we can pick up one.

  38. Your endless objections to Herb’s theorizing bear the mark of someone who WORKS FOR AN OPPOSITION CANDIDATE.

    Clearest indication yet that the Guvs were right and Herb is getting noticed.

  39. His website has a huge picture of Iraq soldier coffins on the homepage.

    How the hell is that “typical of a GOP candidate?” You people are losing me.

  40. Patriot-

    Just admit it, you’re Herb, aren’t you?


    Maybe wondermonkey isn’t WORKING for an opposition candidate, maybe he just BELIEVES in ANOTHER candidate…And the last time I checked, that was still allowed in this country.

  41. “endless objections?” No, I have a few very specific ones that I will discuss with anyone who buys into the “Herb is a great liberal candidate” line.

    I work for no campaign. I choose to volunteer on the Perlmutter campaign in my spare time. I don’t care who knows that.

  42. Ed Perlmutter is running a disgustingly negative campaign. He attacks everyone in his way, even Herb Rubenstein who he has no need to fear. He cares nothing for real positions and arguments. He’s a shell of glittering generalities.

    He will win this vicious primary and lose to O’Donnell in November. I hope his bullshit cultivation of personal power was worth the loss of the most competitive congressional seat in the United States…

  43. Jeez-
    “Works for” and “volunteers” are different last I checked. Nobody’s paying me to run opposition, and that seemed to be what you were insinuating.

    I only chose to volunteer after meeting and talking to all three candidates. I made a choice about who I like and who I don’t agree with. Is this a problem?

  44. I imagine most people who post on this blog work or volenteer or/and donate to campaigns. 

    You gotta be interested in the minutia of colorado politics to find all the babble here facinating.

  45. What is wrong with my right of privacy?  This website reserves my right to remain anonymous.  However, I will admit that I’m not seeking ANY political office, so why should I relinquish that right of privacy? — and I’m not paid a salary for ANY campaign. 

    And I’m not Mr. Rubenstein.  However, I think his ideas are VERY important to discuss!

  46. I don’t understand “what” Perlmutter brings in a debate against O’Donnell … I have not heard much about him.  He seems to stay in the closet where he is safe from the debate.

  47. I have decided … I support Herb Rubenstein for Congress in the Congressional 7th district — for many reasons.  And one of those primary reasons is his level of direct experience with the Carter Administration and his work in Washington, D.C..  That experience is very important!

    Herb is a TRUE LIBERAL … tried and true.  If you don’t think that President Carter is enough as a level of experience or a track record in Washington, then I challenge any of the other two candidates with a greater level of knowledge and education than Mr. Rubenstein.

    It also says a lot when wOndermOnkey admits he is a volunteer for Mr. Perlmutter — a negative campaign.

  48. This is the last thing I’ll say on this. I support Ed, and I don’t see where he’s been the “negative” one in the campaign. Have you seen all the attacks on Peggy’s site? I have said nothing “negative” in this discussion. We have discussed issues as people who support opposite sides. That’s legitimate, and not negative. Herb’s supporters do not have a monopoly on the ability to discuss issues.

    Since you bring up his “experience” in the “Carter Administration”…his own resume states he worked for DHS from 1980-1983. A quick fact check shows that 2 of those 3 years were under Reagan, not Carter. Do you remember what happened to people on welfare under Reagan?

    I don’t see how Herb is at all liberal, no matter who he worked for for 1 year in the past. I believe I have stated my reasons already.

  49. I don’t live in CD7, however, I think it is a very important race.  Divide and conquer could cost Democrats the seat.  Herb Rubenstein sounds like the Mike Miles of 2006.  Does anyone know who the “Be the Change” organization is backing…if that has already been posted, I apologize for taking up space with a redunancy.

  50. Be The Change went neutral or endorsed all three candidates in CD7. Herb Rubenstein is far different than Mike Miles. Herb has the resources to wage a serious campaign. The mail sent out last week by Herb was brilliant and effective. Herb has a media person Deno Seder ( who does some of the most effective to be found anywhere. Herb is to the left of Lamm and Perlmutter but he is not to the left of his district. Herb is a mainstream Democrat who can win. Herb just has the guts to talk about Iraq and the need for health care reform. Those are winning issues not far out ones

  51. Ed lost my support this week with his crowing email about Peggy’s residency, AFTER the district attorney announced he wasn’t going to file any charges.

    I’m sure you’re a nice monkey, but the guy you’re working for is  ruthless and power-hungry. And I don’t like that.

  52. Thanks for the info on “Be the Change.”  Miles’ campaign two years ago centered on opposition to the war in Iraq and universal health care. His campaign was serious enough to get him top position on the primary ballot.  I don’t have a candidate in the CD7.  What would have happened if Be the Change had endorsed Rubenstein? Any opinions?

  53. Scott Storey should be asked to release the entire investigation file of notes, interviews, reports, memos and photographs concerning the residency of Peggy Lamm. When that file is released Ed Perlmutter will be shown to be right about this issue.

  54. […] Democrat Ed Perlmutter dropped his first large mail piece in CD-7 today, claiming to be the first candidate toВ make a large mail drop (which isn’t entirely true – Herb Rubenstein sent out a big direct mail piece in May). The mail piece, which is pretty standard and vanilla,В is available to view online by clicking HERE. […]

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