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May 17, 2006 08:00 AM UTC

Wednesday Open Thread

  • by: Colorado Pols

The greatest open thread in all the land.


42 thoughts on “Wednesday Open Thread

  1. While we worry about Iraq, the Mexico problem becomes a great concern.  We seem to know more about Iraq than our neighbor to the south.

    Fear gnaws Mexicans as vote nears
    Wednesday, May 17, 2006; Posted: 11:12 a.m. EDT (15:12 GMT)

    MEXICO CITY, Mexico (AP) — As presidential elections near, many Mexicans fear the country is teetering on the edge of chaos — a perception that could hurt the ruling National Action Party and benefit Mexico’s once-powerful Institutional Revolutionary Party.

    Some blame President Vicente Fox for a weak government. Others say rivals are instigating the violence to create that impression, hoping to hurt National Action candidate Felipe Calderon, who has a slight lead in recent polls.

    A poll published Friday in the Excelsior newspaper found 50 percent of respondents feared the government was on the brink of losing control. The polling company Parametria conducted face-to-face interviews at 1,000 homes across Mexico. The poll had a margin of error of 3 percentage points.

    The conflicts are “a warning sign,” said Yamel Nares, Parametria’s research director.

    Security is the top concern for Mexicans, and Fox has struggled to reform Mexico’s notoriously corrupt police. Meanwhile, drug-related bloodshed has accelerated, with some cities seeing killings almost daily.

    In April, suspected drug lords posted the heads of two police officers on a wall outside a government building where four drug traffickers died in a January 27 shootout with officers in the Pacific resort of Acapulco.

    A sign nearby read: “So that you learn to respect.”

  2. Illegal immigration to the United States is “Mexico’s disgrace,” caused by the government’s failure to create enough jobs, the country’s leftist presidential candidate said on Tuesday.

    Andres Manuel Lopez Obrador, who trails conservative Felipe Calderon in polls ahead of July 2 elections, accused President Vicente Fox’s administration of causing the flight of millions of Mexicans to the north, which prompted President Bush to order National Guard troops to the border.

    “They are the ones mostly responsible for what is going on because there is no employment, there are no jobs in Mexico so people need to emigrate,” Lopez Obrador said on his morning television show.”

    And now, the upside:

    If Mexico goes communist, President Bush won’t have to do anything:  they’ll build a wall themselves!

    (from )

  3. This week John Kerry sent out an email blasting big oil.  To quote, “It’s time for an accountability moment for Clay Shaw and Dave Reichert. They’re a couple of Republican congressmen with connections to big oil that would make Dick Cheney blush.”

    If Perlmutter wins you’d be able to say the same thing about him.  Just ask the Colorado Oil and Gas industry who just held a fundraiser for Perlmutter and said in their invitation, “He [Ed Perlmutter] will be an effective voice for industry in Congress in the Democratic caucus where that voice will be especially needed. As an industry, we need support on both sides of the aisle, and Ed understands our issues at a fundamental level.”  Ed also voted for the Oil Industry Dream Bill in the state legislature, which I’m sure had nothing to do with the tens of thousands of dollars they’ve given him.

    So why would Kerry support someone like Perlmutter?  Turns out Ed raised him thousands of dollars during the Presidential race.  Ed’s even got Kerry’s Press Secretary’s wife, who works over at the DCCC, spreading nasty rumors about Peggy Lamm.

    That, folks, is what money buys in politics.  And with Oil Man Ed Perlmutter in Washington, Big Oil will have bought themselves a Congressman that would, to quote John Kerry, make Dick Cheney bush.

  4. I wouldn’t vote for anyone that is connected with BIG OIL, we don’t need anymore Bush administrations.  We need to elect someone who is the smaller guy, the person that is not corrupted with the awful political scene.  We need people who will be concerned about the survival of our children and children’s children … and all of the little animals of the earth. 

    If we destroy the planet with fossil fuels, then that is one hell of a sad testimony of mankinds existence.  I think we all need to realize that eventually we leave this world … but what is most important is what we leave behind … for the next generation, that is our greatest legacy. 

    I would never vote for someone who supports the continuation of ruineous ideas of global warming.  President Al Gore was right.  The GOP was wrong.  It is that simple.

  5. That’s just great.  Albert Gore the “environmentalist” gone astray?  Thank you for informing me of this … and, “who can we trust to lead this country in 2008?” 

    WE NEED SOMEONE WHO WILL BRING THE WORLD TOGETHER, THE COUNTRY … someone who is nuetral and open minded.  We need someone who is peaceful and respectful of others — but also strong in their opinions.

  6. I agree.  ColoradoPols has become the “greatest” blog in the country, since it allows for open debate. 

    Freedom of Speech is alive and well in Colorado!  🙂  ColoradoPols will no doubt grow and prosper … creating a voice of public opinion.  It is facinating on how brilliant the Father’s of this great country were, Thomas Jefferson, John Adams, George Washington, Benjamin Franklin … America!

  7. What is the status of the investigation into voter fraud now being conducted by Jeffco DA Scott Storey? Has Peggy been cleared?
    Is Storey going to let us know when a decision will be made?


    War in almost every situation is a mistake.  War creates more hatred and more future war.  War is perpetual.

    perpetual |p?r?pe ch o??l| adjective 1 never ending or changing : deep caves in perpetual darkness. occurring repeatedly; so frequent as to seem endless and uninterrupted : their perpetual money worries.


    VIETNAM 5/71  61%

    KOREA 3/52  51%
    SERBIA 6/99  47%
    PERSIAN GULF 1/91  30%
    AFGHANISTAN 11/01  9%

    WOW … It appears that lying to the American people about going to war against Iraq is WRONG !!!  Thank goodness for our democrats in this country, for bringing out this very important knowledge, that we need everyones perspectives … that we cannot TRUST the GOP anymore!

  9. With war bills to pay, Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld is calling on Congress to pass  President Bush’s request for an extra $65 billion to cover costs in  Iraq and  Afghanistan this year.

    Is BB going to vote in favor of this absolutely shameful waste? What about the Billions missing and misspent? Where are the investigations by the Republicans into this mismanagement?

    Hold the republicans accountable!

  10. That stock was in his father’s estate. Al Gore never owned any Occidental stock.

    Pretty selective reading, Lu.  Do you know who Armand Hammer was?

  11. In a nice bit of Democratic co-operation, Ed Perlmutter and Bill Winter have been saying some nice words of support for one another at Daily Kos.

    A couple of days ago Bill said…

    Ed is certainly a fantastic candidate and has certainly been all that I could ask for in a friend through all of this. No one has been a mentor to me as a candidate the way Ed has.

    And today I got a letter from Ed’s campaign asking me to pass it along to the netroots.

    I posted it up at Kos.

  12. The US Congres should have approved the fence for the entire southern border.  Why is it that our Congress only does a half-way job?  If it is worth doing, then it is worth doing right! 

    However, it is a start. 


    Senate votes for fence on southern U.S. border
    Body votes for 370 miles of fencing, clashes over citizenship for immigrants

    Updated: 3:23 p.m. ET May 17, 2006
    WASHINGTON – The Senate voted to build 370 miles of triple-layered fencing along the Mexican border Wednesday and clashed over citizenship for millions of men and women who live in the United States illegally.

    Amid increasingly emotional debate over election-year immigration legislation, senators voted 83-16 to add fencing and 500 miles of vehicle barriers along the southern border. It marked the first significant victory in two days for conservatives seeking to place their stamp on the contentious measure.

  13. Lulu:

    Wikipedia?  ROFL  The Playskool version of research. 

    Occidental’s planned drilling of the Elk Hills doesn’t only threaten the memory of the Kitanemuk. Environmentalists say a rare species of fox, lizard and the kangaroo rat would also be threatened by Oxy’s plans. A lawsuit has been filed under the Endangered Species Act. But none of that has given pause to Occidental or the politician who helped engineer the sale of the drilling rights to the federally-owned Elk Hills. That politician is Al Gore.

    Gore recommended that the Elk Hills be sold as part of his 1995 “Reinventing Government” National Performance Review program. Gore-confidant (and former campaign manager) Tony Cohelo served on the board of directors of the private company hired to assess the sale’s environmental consequences. The sale was a windfall for Oxy. Within weeks of the announced purchase Occidental stock rose ten percent.

    That was good news for Gore. Despite controversy over Dick Cheney’s plans to keep stock options if elected, most Americans don’t know that we already have a vice president with oil company stocks. Before the Elk Hills sale, Al Gore controlled between $250,000-$500,000 of Occidental stock (he is executor of a trust that he says goes only to his mother, but will revert to him upon her death). After the sale, Gore began disclosing between $500,000 and $1 million of his significantly more valuable stock.


  14. “In a nice bit of Democratic co-operation, Ed Perlmutter and Bill Winter have been saying some nice words of support for one another at Daily Kos.

    A couple of days ago Bill said…

    Ed is certainly a fantastic candidate and has certainly been all that I could ask for in a friend through all of this. No one has been a mentor to me as a candidate the way Ed has.
    And today I got a letter from Ed’s campaign asking me to pass it along to the netroots.

    I posted it up at Kos.”

    Does that mean Winter is endorsing Perlmutter???

  15. Josh-

    Yeah that would be a terrible idea…very unprofessional.  In the most contested primary in the state, you would alienate a lot of people in this state, something Winter’s camp cannot afford to do.

  16. ACK,

    It would be, but he didn’t.  Bill’s said nice things about Peggy, too.  He’s obviously got a friend in Ed Perlmutter, but saying he’s been a mentor to Bill isn’t a campaign endorsement.

  17. Why is Bill posting on Kos?  Shouldn’t he be campaigning in his district?  Raising money?  I’ve never heard of canddidates blogging when they should be campaigning.  Maybe putting out a public statement on all this immigration stuff that’s been going on.  How is his name recognition going to go up if he won’t put out press realeases when issues that his opponent focuses on are on the front page?

  18. Go Cutler,

    The blog thing is becoming par for the course, and doesn’t take a lot of time out of Bill’s constant campaigning.

    Here is a statement Bill Winter made in an interview a few months ago on immigration:

    ePMedia: Your opponent, Tom Tancredo, says “America is full.” What do you think?

    BW: I think that we clearly have problems with our current immigration system, and I think we need to address those problems and have real debate and a real search for solutions. But I also think it is wrong for a man who himself is the son of an immigrant family to bash others who are only seeking what he has already found. I don’t believe Mr. Tancredo has any solutions to our immigration issues, and it seems clear to me that he is in favor of making criminals out of good people for his own political benefit. I cannot support that.

    There are a few things I know for sure. I know that everyone in this country is an immigrant if you go back in their family history far enough. And I know that people immigrate to this country for one reason—to seek a better life and to pursue the American dream. No one can ever convince me that is a bad thing. I refuse to stand by while decent people are attacked for the benefit of someone’s political ambitions.

    I think a starting point for meaningful immigration reform would be the McCain-Kennedy bill that will come up next year. Of course my opponent is against it, but he’s against any kind of compromise, and compromise is the only way to get any kind of effective immigration reform. I want to listen to people who are experts on this issue and hear what they think is the right solution. I think that is a far better solution than grandstanding and demagoguery.

  19. Hippo-aka Winter staffer apparently (shouldn’t you be working?)

    That’s great, but what about the President’s speech, what about the national guard down there, what about the Senate vote today, would he vote for something like that?  Seems like this issue is front and center and Winter is nowhere to be found.

  20. (laugh)

    CNN on the situation room just announced that a bill is being considered, raising the speed limit to 80 mph in certain places in the country.  Comments from viewers said that a raise to “90 mph or higher would be “ok” in the State of Texas, since it would help to reduce the gene pool.”

  21. G.C.,

      “I’ve never heard of canddidates blogging when they should be campaigning.”

      Welcome to the new world.

    You might want to check out the amount of money that our little DailyKos community is able to put behind the candidates we support.

  22. Cutler,

    Not a Winter staffer, just an enthusiastic amateur.  I’m not even in district 6.  And yes I should be working, thanks for the nudge.

    Bill Winter said he’d support something like the McCain-Kennedy proposal.  I don’t know if he’s made a statement about today’s Senate vote yet–has Tancredo?  If you’re really curious, send Bill an email through his website and I bet you’ll get a personal response.

  23. The Lamm shills are really trying to step on the gas (no pun intended) with this oil buisness.  It seems to be the only angle of attack they have left.

    Ed has a solid environmental record, and the ‘dream bill’ that they keep trumpeting is being heavily misrepresented.  The dream bill tag is an old shock headline from the post, and anybody that does a little research will see that it’s not really a correct portrayal of the legislation.  Clearly they’re hoping voters won’t do this.

    And, it seems that Sen. Kerry, just like anybody else that endorses Ed, is corrupt in their estimation.  This strategy is the worst of all, and I feel it makes Peggy look bad.  Every single organization or fellow Democrat (and there are many) that endorses Perlmutter are automatically labeled as corrupt, stupid, compromised, etc. by the Lamm shills.  They’re alienating a lot of people when they suggest that anybody supporting Ed isn’t on the level.

    If you sling enough mud around, eventually some of it is going to splatter right back at you.

  24. Yeah TakeBack

    DailyKos is all over Udall and John Salazar’s reports, the two most successful fundraisers for the Dems.  Huge donor base.  Wait…no their not…

  25. I’ve met be the changers who are very invested in all three cd 7 dem candidates and I would think that those btc’ers would remember what it is like to have the party stand against you because one of their darlings insiders is running.  However, Winter is not looking to foster the alienated left, hes got them, he must be aiming for the insiders.

  26. Bad news indeed.  Marines executed innocent Iraqi families in retaliation for an insurgents’ IED attack that killed one of their fellows.  Shades of Vietnam.  I hope this turns out to be incorrect–it’s terrible.

  27. Rubyblue
    Thou dost protest too much. 

    Are you getting nervous?

    Peggy’s got momentum going based on her own solid policy and the strength of the team who put forward that great add at top of the page, which gives us voters the oppurtunity to learn about it. 

    All you have to do is really talk to Peggy Lamm and you know she has what it takes to win this. 

    I noticed coloradopols moved her up in the odds.  Momentum is at Peggys back. 

    I’m excited.

    I’m suprised you haven’t pulled out your usual tune: address, owens, address, owens, but the evening is young.

  28. For five years, Liberal Democrats whine, complain, and gripe about voter-fraud in Florida and Ohio. Now, the same group is thoroughly supporting a candidate that is/was being investigated for just that, voter fraud. I don’t like criminals, and how one could support a criminal is beyond me.

    And if we really want to get into analogies of candidates, as some have said Perlmutter is comparable to Bush (yeah, that is rational), why don’t we talk about Peggy. Peggy is/was a lobbyist. A lobbyist, like Jack Abramoff? Yeah, maybe she’ll be the next deLay or Ney or cunningham or Burns or…you get the idea. But I can see the TV ad now! Once a criminal always a criminal!

  29. I’m not sure how a person would construe my dispute of the “oilman” claims about Perlmutter as some sort of nervous reaction.  Your post is full of playground chiding, fortunately I don’t believe that it’s clever enough to obfuscate the fact that it also fails to address any of the points that I make.

    I was merely pointing out that there is some serious spin at play there, particularly with the discussion of the “dream bill,” which is a phrase getting lobbed around by the shills almost as proliferously as “oversample” was just a few weeks ago.  Also, the tendency for Peggy supporters to bash any and all instiutions, groups, and people that support Ed is, in my estimation, pretty pathetic as well as detrimental in the long run. 

    Kerry endorses – the Lamm shills say: “it’s not real!” (recently changed to “Kerry is paid off”).  The CEA endorses – “they’re a weak organization, we didn’t want their support anyway!”  Alan Salazar – “Udall is an idot, he’s throwing his credibility away!”  Apply some permutation of those three to anybody else that has publicly come out for Perlmutter, and you have ability to spin damage control on the blogs for Peggy’s office.  As usual, I doubt I’m the only one that finds the practice to be more humerous than effective.

    The ad, I must say, is very much ‘okay.’  It has been addressed elsewhere, but I don’t think a few internet views from bloggers is going to help Peggy shore up the votes to knock Perlmutter out of the race.  That’s truly wishful thinking, especially in light of the deafening indifference to her brief showing at the CD7 assembly.

    “I’m suprised you haven’t pulled out your usual tune: address, owens, address, owens, but the evening is young.”

    It’s not terribly smart to remind people of your candidate’s most problematic points.  This may be a marginal mistake, however, as most are already aware that Peggy doesn’t live in nor have any roots in the district she seeks to reprsent, and that she flipped on her own party and endorsed super-Republican Bill Owens for governor because it was politically advanteageous. 

    Ah, that’s the candidate I want – a crass political opportunist whose main policy outline consists of endlessly repeating that she has”spine.”  In my humble opinion, those with ‘spine’ don’t turn on their own party and support a candidate like Owens just because they don’t think Rollie Heath will win.  Thanks for the reminder by the way.

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