The Realities of Our Revenue Crisis

Hear hear

Efficiency of government seems to be the thing that everyone wants, but no one ever does anything about.

We can pull ourselves out of this economic situation, but it's going to take work at all levels of government to try to provide better service.

I'd also like to see what we can do about eliminating certain tax credits--something our state spends hundreds of millions on every year.

"I'll take incompetence over a business model incentivised to kill me any day." -- DtR(H)

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by: redstateblues @ Thu Jul 09, 2009 at 16:57:00 PM CDT

We haven't spent anything on tax cuts

The notion that the state "spends" a penny on tax cuts is a disordered one, since it is based on the idea that the money is the property of the state in the first place.  

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by: Robert Jordan @ Thu Jul 09, 2009 at 19:35:55 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Tax credits ==/== Tax cuts

"I'll take incompetence over a business model incentivised to kill me any day." -- DtR(H)

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by: redstateblues @ Thu Jul 09, 2009 at 20:30:15 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

COFPI - has anyone looked at this organization?

Look at their board of directors, its like ACORN, Jr.

Hack Democrat lawyers and activists.

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by: Libertad @ Fri Jul 10, 2009 at 08:57:14 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

And your point is?

Now its not just unions you hate, its any Democrat.

Or do you just hate the working poor?  The COFPI's work on trying to allow working people to take care of their kids and get healthcare is commendable.

Oh wait I forgot you DO hate the working poor.

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by: Danny the Red (hair) @ Fri Jul 10, 2009 at 09:59:41 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

The states money

any theory that begins with this premise is corrupt.  

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by: Libertad @ Thu Jul 09, 2009 at 20:35:11 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

You are correct, but I don't think that you intended that

The corrupt theory you refer to is Robert Jordan's.  

Any economic theory that is built on the notion that earnings are due solely to that individual's enterprise is sorely mistaken.  Such individuals' who believe that the money they have accumulated is theirs alone and wants government off of their backs, conveniently ignores how government helped them with their income.

You know, the military, the courts, laws, a relatively safe banking system and stock market (the recent failures thereof is due to REDUCTION of oversight, not the lack of, see pre-FDR), the police to protect their precious private property, schools, roads, safe air transport, ALL the purpose and outcome of effective government.

You literally can't have it all.  If you take from the system, you must give back.  

"Collective fear stimulates herd instinct and tends to produce ferocity toward those who are not regarded as members of the herd." -Bertrand Russell

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by: parsingreality @ Fri Jul 10, 2009 at 08:41:50 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Taxes are like death, I think we all agree

they are the two things you can count on occurring to your body and your money

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by: Libertad @ Fri Jul 10, 2009 at 08:52:04 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

What would Colorado Springs look like without

the investment of millions of dollars from the federal government?  The most anti-gov area in the state is the biggest consumer of tax dollars.  How's that work?

I agree with you, but it's an old American outlook:  what's mine is mine, what's yours is mine.

Take grave-robbing as another example.  In SE Utah and SW Colorado, in some communities it's considered a fun hobby or pastime to go out and collect ancient pots and jewelry.  Often those items come from burials.  Somehow, I don't think it would be considered a fun hobby if I went up to our graveyard and dug up 100-year-old graves for their ancient holdings.  (Really, it's not like anyone's using the stuff!)

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by: dmindgo @ Fri Jul 10, 2009 at 12:16:06 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

The problem I see with this entire string is

that, incredibly, some people here still seem to expect Libertad to make sense, to  come up with relevant replies, etc.  That's never going to happen. Why bother to  engage?  

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by: BlueCat @ Fri Jul 10, 2009 at 14:38:18 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

It's not just that

It's the Republican establishment.  It seems to have a whole "What me worry?" attitude about fiscal responsibility.

I know there are responsible Republicans out there.  Our representative in the state Leg is Republican and is very responsible.  But these guys like Penry and Andrews with their race to the bottom of decency is beyond the Pale.

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by: dmindgo @ Fri Jul 10, 2009 at 16:54:07 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Know your Colorado constitution Libby

Article II Section 1: All political power is vested in and derived from the people; all government, of right, originates from the people, is founded upon their will only, and is instituted solely for the good of the whole.

It's our money. That is why I am so concerned about spending it more efficiently. Don't think that concept is lost on me, and don't try to bog me down in semantics instead of having a conversation about the most important issue our state faces. Don't pretend like I don't know where the power lies. The power, like the money, belongs to the people.

"I'll take incompetence over a business model incentivised to kill me any day." -- DtR(H)

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by: redstateblues @ Fri Jul 10, 2009 at 13:29:47 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

So....

If the state of Colorado collects taxes, but it's not their "property," to whom does it belong? (Don't answer "the People," because in pragmatic terms that's synonymous with the state. You know, this being a representative government, and all that.)

"The fact that we Dems can't rebuild the house does not mean you bring back the [Republicans] who burned it down." - DavidThi808

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by: Aristotle @ Fri Jul 10, 2009 at 09:10:35 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

With Republican governors and legislatures

talking about secession and Rush talking about how nice it would be if the Hondurans would just come over here and help his ditto heads "take back" the government, it's no surprise they don't realize that, in our system, the state is us.  

Given the hypocrisy level they've attained in the arenas of morals, family values, and patriotism (secession and foreign led rebellion being about as unpatriotic as it gets) it's no wonder the same hypocrisy extends to federal taxation, with the reddest areas getting the most back. The biggest "welfare queens" are the big fat idiot red states.  

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by: BlueCat @ Fri Jul 10, 2009 at 14:51:02 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

I agree 100% on making the state more efficient

The other thing you never see the state do is look at changing what it does to save money (and then allocate it elsewhere). I'm not saying we should decriminalize drugs - but we should at least look at less expensive responses to how we handle drugs and see how they weigh out.

Tom Tancredo Interview

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by: DavidThi808 @ Thu Jul 09, 2009 at 22:02:51 PM CDT

I'll say it: decriminalize drugs

First, pot.  Establish licensing for growing, distributing, and selling the stuff.  Do that for a few years and then let's talk about other drugs.  Regulate, don't criminalize.

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by: dmindgo @ Fri Jul 10, 2009 at 12:17:55 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Ok, now how do we get you in the legislature???

Tom Tancredo Interview

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by: DavidThi808 @ Sat Jul 11, 2009 at 16:14:21 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

well, dude

right after you.

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by: dmindgo @ Sat Jul 11, 2009 at 17:42:30 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

I came across this grazing in the internet

It is fundamental to the way we will work our way into a brighter, more stable future. The old ways of the last 150 years are coming to a screeching halt. How we harvest and use energy and other valuable resources like metals and minerals is changing fast. The total population numbers are changing fast. Our thinking has to keep up.

http://blogs.harvardbusiness.o...


"I can tolerate chaos, I'm just not sure chaos can tolerate me" Dylan

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by: Sir Robin @ Fri Jul 10, 2009 at 08:40:33 AM CDT

Its a Spending Crisis

that drives you into a capital input problem ... you know a root cause.

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by: Libertad @ Fri Jul 10, 2009 at 08:54:52 AM CDT

By your logic

Somalia is heaven on earth as it spends zero on the government. Planning to move there???

Tom Tancredo Interview

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by: DavidThi808 @ Fri Jul 10, 2009 at 09:31:41 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Anarchy is heaven

to conservatives.

"No Government is the best government.  I won't pay a dime to defend this country or teach our children.  They are rotten socialist government parasites except when they are killed in combat then they are glorious martyrs for the notion that violence solves everything.   I hate government except when I use it as an example of Democracy to invade other countries for their own good which I hate to pay for but want our children to bear the burden of my blood thirsty revenge.  God I hate government and what it can do for our people".

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by: Gilpin Guy @ Fri Jul 10, 2009 at 11:04:21 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

A horse's backside smells fresher than this putrid exhalation

It's one thing to cut taxes. I mean, imagine not having to pay taxes on whatever paycheck you get if you're lucky enough to still have a job in Depression 2.0; or even not having to pay taxes on purchases and unemployment. That would help, but it won't be done because it takes money out of their pockets.

This is about climbing out of a pit and that's done not by theory or by tax incentives or breaks for corporations; it's done by simply and easily creating jobs-jobs-jobs. Everyone with a brain knows this, but they don't want to do it because it would level the playing field.

Imagine if we took all the abandoned trains and tracks, upgraded them and got them functional and built light-rail across the state. This would encourage new businesses to relocate here, increase the number of jobs across the state, make life easier, and garner massive media all in one action. Can we do it? Nope. Lame duck gov with no interest in jobs.

How about if we decided to clean up all abandoned properties throughout the state and put anyone wanting the job to work renovating the properties and then hired staff around the state to counsel, education, re-train, and gather up all the homeless and anyone else who wanted re-training? How many jobs would that create? Any interest in doing it? Nope. Lame duck gov, smarter than Palin but just not "into it."

And for all the mental pygmies saying that's what the "stimulus" was for and we're already doing it...the numbers tell a different story.

Unemployment is continuing to rise while companies do as they please with no accountability. Obama's stimulus was well-intentioned but a day late and more than a dollar short. Krugman isn't stupid, naive maybe, but stupid, no.

You want to solve our revenue crisis? Either raise taxes on a destitute, broken middle class or create jobs and level the field and get the moola indirectly and through increased opportunities. Guess which we'll get?

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by: Voltaire @ Fri Jul 10, 2009 at 12:00:36 PM CDT

are you related to JO?

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by: Jambalaya @ Fri Jul 10, 2009 at 17:52:33 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Carol Hedges very perceptive

I really enjoy her analysis of the state budget.  She can talk about the numbers in a way that makes sense, unraveling the mess.  Thanks for this post.  

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by: dmindgo @ Fri Jul 10, 2009 at 12:26:04 PM CDT