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Jared Polis and the Art of Self-Flagellation

by: Colorado Pols

Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 09:48:34 AM MDT


UPDATE: The audio of Polis's appearance is up. Neither Polis nor talk show host Jay Marvin are likely to remember this as their finest hour, but only one of them is running for Congress.

Say this for Jared Polis - the man has an incredible talent for self-flagellation.

After reportedly confronting a producer of The Jay Marvin Show yesterday, which generated some unwanted press, Polis appeared on the radio show this morning and didn't exactly distinguish himself. Marvin repeatedly asked Polis to apologize to his producer for yesterday's confrontation, but Polis refused to do so and instead continually changed the topic.

Look, we don't know if Marvin or Polis is in the right here, but it doesn't really matter. As a candidate for political office, you don't pick a fight with the media, and if you do, you apologize when given the opportunity. Voters are much more apt to forgive and forget if a politician apologizes sincerely, but instead of taking that route, Polis came off sounding like the bully he was portrayed to be.

It's one thing to hold your ground and refuse to apologize for something that is truly important. But this was not a stand Polis needed to take. The smart play here was to apologize and move on - really, that choice was so obvious that it's bizarre Polis chose any other route. But that's what makes him the strange and confounding candidate that he is; in retrospect, perhaps this really was the only option that made sense for him.
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Jared Polis and the Art of Self-Flagellation | 128 comments
Yesterday
Yesterday someone made a comment about the nature of talk radio and about how the goal is simply to make mountains out of molehills.  While this may be a little bit of overstatement it is essentially correct, and it does not suprise me in the least that Marvin was able to make Polis look bad.  If he had apologized he probably would be criticized for catering and pandering.  That isnt who Jared is and he isnt gonna stand for it.  He says he is willing to stand up to Republicans, PACs, special intrests, and all other commers, so why not a talk show host who wants him to apologize for something he doesnt feel that he did any wrong in doing?  Get over it, move on.  It shows strong character, now deal with it!

Votes have a well known liberal bias, along with facts, figures, statistics, the media, and the truth.
Really
Jay Marvin was a total dick and uncalled for.

I understand being a talk show host but the man was totally in Joan's pocket.  Marvin is about as Bias Rush Limbaugh - Looks like I am going to find something to else to listen to in the morning on my way to work.

yep
Whatever credibility he had as an objective journalist has flown out the window.  He clearly is Joan Fitz-Oil's henchman.
[ Parent ]
Say what?
He's a talk show host not an AP writer. Talk about lack of understanding.

"Suddenly, it may be cool to be American again" - William J. Kole
[ Parent ]
Marvin...
is biased for whomever is paying him.  

I recall that he was one of Bill Owens' biggest supporters when he was on 630 and had the opportunity to listen to him when he was on the air in Chicago...he was right leaning moderate there.

I listened to him this AM and promptly donated $100 to Polis' campaign.

"But when I see a 9-11 victim family on television, or whatever, I'm just like, 'Oh, shut up!' I'm so sick of them because they're always complaining."  Glenn Beck  

[ Parent ]
I think it was clear
that Jay had no intention of giving Jared a fair chance.  The finance question was provided to him from another campaign and intended to stir controversy.  I'm sure the other campaigns will now be worried that their skeletons will now be unearthed, as there are many.

And I certainly agree that I would rather have someone who stands up for themselves then someone who would lay down and take whatever is dished out to him.

Congrats to Jared on a strong showing an a fiercely biased show.

Ummm
From what I understand, Polis was offered the same time slot as the other candidates, 9AM, not the 8AM drive time he wanted.  It seems he's the one who was making a mountain out of a molehill first. How is it not a "fair shake' if it's the same shake your opponents get?  

None of which is to say Jay Marvin had to make such a big deal out of it either but he really doesn't seem to be behaving any worse than Polis here. Looks like the collision of two inflated egos to me.  

[ Parent ]
The Polis Song
It was great to hear Polis and Peter Yarrow leading his campaign supporters in the Polis campaign song. Sung to the tune of Blowin' In the Wind and with apologies to Bob Dylan:

What kind of man tells lie after lie
   and blames them on Wanda James

What kind of man takes lobbyist cash
    and calls Jay Marvin bad names

What kind of man lies of his past
     and plays other games

The answer my friend is Jared Polis
    the answer is Jared Polis

Can anyone ever recall a candidate who has lied so much about so many things? He has lied about his contributions, lied about his stand on vouchers, lied about being in ROTC.  Now he is lying about what he said to Jay Marvin.  

[ Parent ]
Todays Interview.
Its obvious that Jay Marvin is in Joan Fitz Gerald's pocket. I can guarantee you that he was fed that info on the "Swift Boat" donations by her campaign. I can also guranantee that no campaign goes through each donation to decide weather or not they should except it. Look at Clinton's campaign when one of their donors got into legal trouble she gave the money he had donated back. Obviously if their campaign had known this person was a criminal they would not have taking his money. Its the same with Jared their was no mismanagement on the part of him or his campaign. No campaign goes through donations. NONE OF THEM.
As a contributor...
to campaigns, I don't want them doing background checks on me!

Marvin is an ass who is attempting to make an issue (as a Fitz-Gerald surrogate) where there isn't one.

Look, if Polis were not a loyal democrat why would he have put millions and millions of his own money into democratic campaigns here in Colorado.

"But when I see a 9-11 victim family on television, or whatever, I'm just like, 'Oh, shut up!' I'm so sick of them because they're always complaining."  Glenn Beck  

[ Parent ]
Or he reads
Must people interested in politics, like Jay, read the papers. Most of Jared's dirt has been widely discussed in numerous articles and blogs. Don't be so paranoid.

Jay is an opinionated who also gives his callers a chance to voice their opinions. For those of screaming, whining and crying about, you're welcome to listen to Mike Rosen, Dan Caplis and Peter Boyels where I'm sure he'll received a much more favorable audience who won't object to his lifestyle of opinions.

Point being, grow the fuck up. Jared could have handled this like man,  but he didn't. He's still the little rich kid crying about being the victim. If he can't handle a local radio pundit, how's he going to handle Congress?

"Suddenly, it may be cool to be American again" - William J. Kole

[ Parent ]
Speaking of growing up,
take your own fucking advice, you fucking child. You are rude, belittling and belligerent when someone disagrees with you and it is growing old, damn fast.

I'm listening to yesterday's tape of the show and Marvin was an asshole. I'm waiting to hear Polis today before weighing in but so far, Marvin has just reminded why I don't listen to his show. He is a biased, bloviating loud mouth who negates his own message every time he opens is mouth.


"I wouldn't characterize caloric intake as "professional development." c rork

[ Parent ]
Is anything I said not true?
Seriously, take a step back and read my post and tell me which point was false.

Some of the posts on here are completely ridiculous regardless of what Jay or Jared did or said, to the point of paranoia of Jay and Joan being in cahoots to bring Jared down. It's silly.

I was merely pointing out the obvious, much of which Pols had already pointed out as well. Jared might not have brought this on himself, but he surely didn't correct it.

If you disagree, that's fine but don't attack me for pointing out the obvious.


"Suddenly, it may be cool to be American again" - William J. Kole

[ Parent ]
Attack you??? Hahahahaha.
Pot meet kettle. You do it every single fucking day. I'm just sick of keeping silent while you attempt to muzzle anyone who doesn't agree with you.

Marvin behaved like a giant asshole and you sit here and defend it because you don't like Polis. And yes, Marvin has made it very clear he is a JFG supporter and if anyone missed it, his bias yesterday will certainly put those doubts to rest.

And because I expect no less of you than to immediately move to right wing talking points, let me save you the trouble. Yes, I'm a Democrat. Yes, an Obama supporter. And no, I have no horse in the CD2 race. I don't live in CD2 and could care less who wins. I think we have 3 good Democrats running. It's their supporters that are starting to disgust me and you can put that egomaniac Jay Marvin at the top of the list.


"I wouldn't characterize caloric intake as "professional development." c rork

[ Parent ]
Right wing talking points?
Asking you to prove me wrong is now a right wing talking point? Seriously, take a step back and please, without getting worked up, point out where I am in the wrong and I will concede or continue. I'm not going to sit her and be quite when people continually post misinformation. I going to point it out.

"Suddenly, it may be cool to be American again" - William J. Kole
[ Parent ]
Please take your own advice, love,
and read my comments. I asked you to grow up and stop being an asshole. As for concede? Let's get real. I've watched you argue here until you are the last one standing, whether you are right or wrong so I could care less whether you continue or not, since we both know you will.

I'm moving on. Feel free to have the last word.

Oh and FYI? I'm now listening to today's podcast and my God, Marvin is behaving even worse than I had expected. You really want to defend that asshole? Have at it.

"I wouldn't characterize caloric intake as "professional development." c rork

[ Parent ]
I'll bite...
Yes portions of what you said are not correct.

"He's still the little rich kid crying about being the victim. If he can't handle a local radio pundit, how's he going to handle Congress?"

I've not heard Polis playing the victim and I disagree with your characterization of his as a little kid...(I'll grant you, he is "rich", but as a Democrat I seriously doubt that you were bitching about that over the last 10 years when he has been pumping his ample resources into the Democratic party here in Colorado....Lord knows that JFG didn't complain when his money helped elevate her to Senate Majority Leader).  Polis' supporters (of which I count myself even though I live in CD7 and cannot vote for him) are objecting to Marvin's treatment of him on his show today.  

Given Marvin's record though (recall two years ago about now he hated Ed Perlmutter and was supporting Dottie Lamm and now he says Perlmutter is one of his "favorite" politicians), Marvin will have his nose up Polis' butt if he wins.  

Bottom line, Marvin is a windbag and a bully.  At least he didn't call Polis a "brainstem" though, so all in all...not a bad day for Polis.

"But when I see a 9-11 victim family on television, or whatever, I'm just like, 'Oh, shut up!' I'm so sick of them because they're always complaining."  Glenn Beck  

[ Parent ]
Perlmutter has been a pleasant surprise
Considering some of his personal ties, I half-expected Perlmutter to be a weak moderate-to-conservative Democrat.

But yes, if Polis wins, Jay will probably endeavor to do more than mend fences.

BTW, I think Marvin's given up on "brainstem".  You haven't listened to him much in the past year or so, have you...

"We're below sharks and contract killers." -- Rep. Trey Gowdy (R-S.C.), speaking on Congress's 9% approval rating

[ Parent ]
I've been listening...
every morning (not much of an alternative out there unless you go with satellite); and yes, I haven't heard him use the "brainstem" line in sometime.  He's not quite as abrasive as he's been in the past, but he can still come across as a jerk and he was very unreasonable with Polis today.

"But when I see a 9-11 victim family on television, or whatever, I'm just like, 'Oh, shut up!' I'm so sick of them because they're always complaining."  Glenn Beck  
[ Parent ]
By the way
it was Peggy Lamm running against Perlmutter. Dottie is the former first lady and longtime newspaper columnist who made a bid for the Senate.
[ Parent ]
Duh...
I meant Peggy and I know the difference.  I actually supported Peggy (sign in yard; money to campaign).

Thanks for the correction.

"But when I see a 9-11 victim family on television, or whatever, I'm just like, 'Oh, shut up!' I'm so sick of them because they're always complaining."  Glenn Beck  

[ Parent ]
FALSE.
Point being, grow the fuck up. Jared could have handled this like man,  but he didn't. He's still the little rich kid crying about being the victim. If he can't handle a local radio pundit, how's he going to handle Congress?

This is your opinion. Not fact.  

"I wouldn't characterize caloric intake as "professional development." c rork

[ Parent ]
There you go
That wasn't that hard. I agree, that's my opinion, but am I wrong? As I've said, I think it's how he's handled this situations that raises concerns. Have you ever seen anyone, not just a candidate, make the paper for something like this before? Regardless of who you think is at fault here (Marvin, his producer, or Jared) they all look bad, and that's not good for the candidate.

But, you're right that was my opinion, not a fact.

"Suddenly, it may be cool to be American again" - William J. Kole

[ Parent ]
What does that mean, Eddie?
When someone demands that you apologize for something that you do not percieve the need to apologize for, what does "a man" do, Eddie?

Either Jared apologizes or he doesn't.  

He chose not to.  That is what this man would do too.

I believe you haven't listened to the podcast

[ Parent ]
Marvin owes Polis an apology
I have never heard such an unfair and biased interview in my long life. I can't imagine how anyone would listen to that bull$%@# and not think poorly of Jay Marvin. My opinion of Polis went way up after hearing that he won't sit back and just take it. Jay Marvin owes Jared Polis an apology.
Way to go, Jay
polis people..cool it.
I thought that polis could have apologized and gone on...I liked the fact that Jay stood up for one of his guys...jared was asked some straightforward questions...like where did he differ from Fitz-Gerald and Bill Hammons.....and he just spun.  ...didn't have to, could have answered the questions...

the question of campaign donors was a "gotcha"....polis could have thanked him for the info..told Marvin he would looked into it and moved on.  Instead, he pulled some kind of bizarre conclusion that the swift boat punks were so captivated by polis that they had changed their political philosophy and were now liberal progressive.........the scary thing is that I think polis actually believes that is a possibility....

the problem with Jared is that he has so gd much money that the people around him tell him what he wants to know....he can't get honest opinions.......

His commercials are slick...and good.  His unscripted appearance on the Marvin show was about as good as McCain's LA speech the night Obama won the nomination.....

it is not rocket science...Jared should hire one of the those real swift boaters to give him a dose of reality....


 For politics, geezers are golden.
by: BlueCat @ Tue Aug 16, 2011 at 19:19:14 PM MDT

Correction: Polis
I forgot to capitalize Polis but did capitalize the other candidates....my mistake.  I just do lower case for repubs...and nader.

 For politics, geezers are golden.
by: BlueCat @ Tue Aug 16, 2011 at 19:19:14 PM MDT
[ Parent ]
First of all,
it was the difference between Fitz-Gerald and Will Shafroth, not Bill Hammons.  Second, it was never going to be a Obama-esque appearance when Marvin wouldn't let him talk about what he's accomplished and what he wants to do as Congressman.

With the bias clear to everyone, it was to Polis' credit that he still chose to go on the show and go head to head with Marvin.  I would have though less of him if he hadn't stood up for his beliefs and what he's accomplished.

[ Parent ]
I stand corrected
I couldn't remember the name of the third candidate in the primary and just copied something from the left hand column, here..

 For politics, geezers are golden.
by: BlueCat @ Tue Aug 16, 2011 at 19:19:14 PM MDT
[ Parent ]
It was hardly a balanced interview
I could care less who wins the Democratic 2nd CD nomination.  I also happen to enjoy listening to Jay Marvin, although I obviously do not always agree with him.

But Marvin's "holier than thou" attitude was really over the top this morning.  He was more like a prosecutor than an interviewer.  Jared Polis deserved better.  It was obvious that Marvin let his emotions overrule his intellect.

I found the whole issue of apparent former "swift boat veterans" contributors now giving money to Polis to be pointless.  While I do believe candidates do look out for what groups are contributing money, I doubt they can afford to spend much time vetting every individual contributor.  Expecting Polis to know why such individuals would contribute to his campaign was ridiculous.  While it is a great question, Marvin needs to be directing that inquiry to those actual donators.

Polis seemed damned if he did, damned if he didn't in the way he chose to finance his campaign.  Marvin roundly criticized Polis for using his own money, but the radio personality would have no doubt panned him for taking money from PAC's, organizations, or individuals -- that Marvin finds "questionable" -- if Polis wasn't using his own dough.

Marvin can, at times, be a bully on the air and I think today was a good example of it.  Talking over guests -- particularly shouting them down -- is not only rude, but it's annoying to the listeners because you then can't hear either one. Sarcasm is not a quality one looks for in an interviewer.

Marvin is certainly entitled to rant about any politician, or political issue, he wants. He does make some good points.  But I wouldn't be allowing him to interview any more candidates, particularly ones he so clearly has a bias against.



Nobody is perfect and nobody needs to be.

H. Jackson Brown, Jr.

Great comment. Well said.
Marvin is rude, overbearing and a goddamn bully. He has never learned the art of listening and his open bias in this race, as well as his hangup about Polis's wealth are tiresome.  

"I wouldn't characterize caloric intake as "professional development." c rork
[ Parent ]
Polis blew it big time
I am amazed at the pro-Polis commentary here.  Whether Polis was right or not in NOT apologizing, Polis (and Beckman) made a critical miscalculation here.  It furthered (and rightly so) Polis' indifference and poor judgment.

The right thing to do is to gracefully diffuse the situation and move on.  It didn't happen.

The correct way to handle a hostile radio host would be to directly answer the questions (e.g. show the differences in policy/stands vis-a-vis Shafroth and Fitz-Gerald) instead of promoting one's experience.

Positively deal with the Swift Boat donations and return them instead of saying that they were "converted" to his cause because he's a great candidate (or whatever Polis said).  

I have been one of Polis' biggest critics in the gay community because he's squandering a super opportunity by his ineptness.  He finally got someone great in managing his campaign. I was hopeful that Polis' stature would be positively turned around; especially after what I've been seeing the last 30 days.  Where the Polis campaign blew it is strongly rooted in poor crisis media management; in much the same vein we experienced prior to the Polis campaign management turnover. It's my humble opinion that Polis is ultimately to blame here by not doing the right thing and moving on.  Now this has become yet another nail in the Polis inability to win.

For you pro-Polis team members, it's time to be reflective about what happened today and get it through Polis' head that he mishandled a GREAT opportunity to make this work for him.  In the end, Jay Marvin (despite his leanings to Fitz-Gerald) successfully put a negative frame around Polis; especially with Marvin's concluding statement that he would rule out endorsing Polis after a terrible interview.

the homonym trap
.
is catching Pols-ters today.

.

and I didn't quite follow your argument, younger brother.  
What did Jared have to apologize for ?  

He should apologize for Jay (or his producer) having a bad day, or having bad manners, or having bad judgment ?  

I, for one, don't believe that there was any threat or intimidation when Jared asked for a better time slot the other day.  
Going to a radio station is not the same as threatening the people who work there.
Marvin is portraying Polis as a stalker.  Do you buy that ?

That was the figment of an imagination that has more than its fair share of unnatural stimuli.  

.

Polis was naive to expect fair treatment from that particular steward of a public trust, the airwaves.  
That was his mistake.
He should then apologize to Jay for mistakenly assuming that he was an honorable man ?
.

[ Parent ]
Polis' response to Marvin...
when he ruled out endorsing him is that given Marvin's previous endorsement of Bill Owens, he'd rather not have Marvin's support anyway.

"But when I see a 9-11 victim family on television, or whatever, I'm just like, 'Oh, shut up!' I'm so sick of them because they're always complaining."  Glenn Beck  
[ Parent ]
Damned if he did, Damned if he didn't
is right. This was a no win situation for JP, gotta give JGF credit for a good set up. the heat is on only 2 months left in the race and JGF doesn't have the $ or organization to compete- but she has buddies like Jay Marvin to help her and that's nothing to blow off. Unfortunately smear campaigns by surrogates works sometimes.  It's going to be close.
Nothing to Blow Off
I'm curious why you haven't corrected your  misstatement. Either you got confused, and were mistaken, or were deliberately making things up. Which is it? Or do you sincerely believe you're "damned" if you admit a mistake, apologize and move on?
[ Parent ]
so...
i am not going to take the time to go through your comments but its my recollection that on a thread about the prez primary david thieln posted about a fundraising email from obama that had a small ask, and you posted you got the same with a big ask- and it must of been from maxing out to WS.. i could mistake that it wasn't you- i thought it was..
but i don't see how you can claim to be undecided you take JP & JFG to task every chance you get. which is fine I like WS too but i don't think he has a chance with 2 months go- so I am now wholeheartedly supporting JP- this district deserves an enviro champ, not somebody that take $ from oil, gas & mining PACs
[ Parent ]
You are mistaken
And your contention I "take JP & JFG to task every chance you get" is equally groundless and incorrect. I can't recall having discussed Joan at all, because she hasn't done much that's newsworthy, and spent an entire wearying afternoon "taking to task" a Shafroth supporter for his wild and overblown arguments. If you really paid attention, you'd also have found times I've come to Polis's defense (on his purported "checkbook environmentalism") and engaged in civil discussions with him about interesting topics.

We're not all shills here, some of us are curious and enjoy having a good discussion about what's going on. You might give it a try sometime.

[ Parent ]
Let's Pretend
...that "self-flagellation" isn't a sexist phrase at its crudest and least sophisticated, offering insight into its author rather than into the subject at hand.

On the other hand, why pretend?

From The American Heritage Dictionary:
SYLLABICATION: self-flag·el·la·tion
PRONUNCIATION: slfflj-lshn
NOUN: 1. The act of severely criticizing oneself. 2. The act of punishing oneself.

Am I missing something?  How is this a sexist phrase?

"But when I see a 9-11 victim family on television, or whatever, I'm just like, 'Oh, shut up!' I'm so sick of them because they're always complaining."  Glenn Beck  

[ Parent ]
I think the practice is more commonly associated with
.
religious rituals.
Muslim men self-flagellate publicly in parades during the Feast of Ashura.
Catholic Deaconate in Seminary self-flagellate privately as part of atonement or purification.
I have seen photos of it in National Geographic as part of some Hindu rite.  

While I defer to the expertise of others on its role in sexual behavior,
I think the association is not what comes first to mind for most readers.
.

[ Parent ]
Funny, I think of medievil monastic behaviors
mortification of the flesh and all

Myself, I practice self-flatulation.

[ Parent ]
Sam Brownback
Isn't the Kansas senator notorious (or regarded, depending on your perspective) for practicing this form of self-flagellation whenever he loses a vote in the Senate?
[ Parent ]
Bahn Goo Jengy
.
shout out to Henry.
.
[ Parent ]
Sexist?
I'm with the others replying to this comment.  How is that phrase sexist?  And by "sexist", do you mean offensive to women?  Or did you mean that it's a "sexually oriented" statement?  But I don't believe either to be true.

Many were increasingly of the opinion that they'd all made a big mistake in coming down from the trees in the first place.  And some said that even the trees had been a bad move, and that no one should ever have left the oceans. - Douglas Adams
[ Parent ]
It's a curious charge
that it's "a sexist phrase at its crudest and least sophisticated, offering insight into its author," coming from a poster whose name is JO.
[ Parent ]
What does "flagellation" have to do with this story?

[ Parent ]
From definition posted above
2. The act of punishing oneself.

We didn't think that was ambiguous in meaning, but we've never actually heard what we think you're talking about referred to as "flagellation," either.

Speaking of which, get your mind out of the gutter.

[ Parent ]
Psycho-Killer...
The Talking Heads put it best when regarding Jay Marvin.

"You're talking a lot, but you're not saying anything! When I have nothing to say, my lips are sealed!"

Marvin gets too comfortable. Too bad he doesn't really understand the political process. He just pretends he does.

I knew a stripper named Skyler once.  --TaxCheatGeithner

Yeah but...
James Brown said it before they did.

Today, you're either going to get better or you're going to get worse, but you're never going to be the same.  Which one will it be?  --Joseph V. Paterno
[ Parent ]
I don't see how the interview could be unbiased
Not considering Jay's support of Joan, but rather considering his perception of the interaction between Polis and the show's producer yesterday.

If you piss off the talk show host the day before you go on the show, you can expect a bumpy ride.  You can either rise above it and be so much better than the host that you shine, or you can dig in.  Sounds like Jared dug in.  Bad move.

"We're below sharks and contract killers." -- Rep. Trey Gowdy (R-S.C.), speaking on Congress's 9% approval rating

He started off with a little knife work
Implying that the dust up was an attempt to promote the show.  That basically forced Marvin to go hard from the start to demand an apology.

Rule 1.  In any situtation recognize who has the power.

Its Marvin's show--he has the power.

Polis isn't used to not having the power and doesn't know how to deal with it.

Rule 2. Attempt to understand a persons goals (express and implied), motivations and decision process.  Particularily critical if you are in the weaker position.

Marvin has layed goals and motivations, some good some selfish.  He is prone to self aggrandizement and self righteousness (he is on talk radio afterall).  He seems himself as a defender of the weak, so he must "protect" his staffers no matter what.

Flattery and an apology would have allowed Polis to mover on.

Rule 3. try to leave you opponent with their dignity or destroy them completely.  A man with wounded pride is dangerous.

Marvin is going to spend then next two months talking about this.

This is a great example of why Jared is not suited for legislative office.

[ Parent ]
Because he won't kiss ass..
he's not suited for legislative office?  Actually, I sort of like that in a politican.

"But when I see a 9-11 victim family on television, or whatever, I'm just like, 'Oh, shut up!' I'm so sick of them because they're always complaining."  Glenn Beck  
[ Parent ]
If you want to accomplish things
you have to kiss some ass.  My grandma used to call it being polite.

Legislation is a negotiation.  You must get enough people to agree with you to accomplish anything.  Bullying is not a sucessful tactic unless you have the power, but even then bullying eventually erodes your power.

Marvin was an ass, but that is his job.

[ Parent ]
Legislation is working with those that have similar principles
Marvin has no principles, so it would make no sense to try and work with him.  Stand up for yourself and don't take the unwarranted abuse.  That's what Jared did.
[ Parent ]
Joe Lieberman...
is the consumate politician and certainly knows how to kiss ass and acomplish things.  Not sure I want my rep to be cut from the Joe Lieberman cloth.  

"But when I see a 9-11 victim family on television, or whatever, I'm just like, 'Oh, shut up!' I'm so sick of them because they're always complaining."  Glenn Beck  
[ Parent ]
John Edwards
is also a consumate politician and knows how to own up to a mistake, apologize and get on with it. I'm proud to have my reps cut from the John Edwards cloth.
[ Parent ]
kiss ass
That's one way to characterize it. However, in the context of the Bush years, there's something to be said for a politician's ability to own up to a mistake, apologize and move on. As Danny points out, in the context of being a guest on Jay Marvin's show, leaving the host and his producer feeling "badgered" is probably a mistake.
[ Parent ]
Maybe Jared Polis needs to be more careful in choosing his battles.
No matter which side of this issue a person falls on, Jay Marvin's show doesn't seem like a worthwhile hill to be willing to die on.
[ Parent ]
Well done dtr
I'm going to take away ur points...well said.  

 For politics, geezers are golden.
by: BlueCat @ Tue Aug 16, 2011 at 19:19:14 PM MDT
[ Parent ]
listen next time, phoenix rising
you can download the podcast.  Jared was polite and inoffensive.  He did rise above it.
[ Parent ]
Can't listen...
I can't listen to the 9am time slot, nor can I listen during the day.  I'll catch up to it and write something sometime.

Avoiding questions and not mending fences isn't going to get it done, though.  David's post below covers it well.

"We're below sharks and contract killers." -- Rep. Trey Gowdy (R-S.C.), speaking on Congress's 9% approval rating

[ Parent ]
Meta comment
Have any of you stopped to look at what you're posting here?  Time to step back, go to Denver, find less than an ounce of weed, and take a puff or two...  You'll come out a whole lot more relaxed.

Joan is paying Jay?  Jay got spoon-fed the bit about the swift-boater contributions?  It was a "set-up" by the Fitz-Gerald campaign?

Wow.  Paranoia much?

"We're below sharks and contract killers." -- Rep. Trey Gowdy (R-S.C.), speaking on Congress's 9% approval rating

Take your own advice, dude and get an ounce for later.
Or do they not allow county chairs to indulge?

True, the paranoia on this thread is thick but so are the apologists for Marvin's asinine behavior. His accusations of Polis were inexcusable and I'm amazed at how many supposedly fair minded people on here, including you, have failed to even acknowledge how poorly he has behaved the last two days.

Your bias is showing, darling. Then again, it has for quite some time.  

"I wouldn't characterize caloric intake as "professional development." c rork

[ Parent ]
Marvin often behaves that way
I turn him off for stretches when he gets going like that.

But since he's the host, I'm not going to get all indignant if a call or interview doesn't go the way I want it to.  It's his playground.  Jared should have seen this coming - had to know it was coming based on his campaign's response last night.  Jay takes a few days to cool down once he gets worked up - what do you expect?

I try to keep my bias as light as possible; it's no secret who I voted for on caucus night, but I've criticized all of the CD-2 candidates when they've made dumb moves.  I just got done with an e-mail conversation countering what I consider to be some inaccurate information put out about Jared.  I've posted here stating that I wanted Joan to endorse a ban on drilling on the Roan (which she hasn't done yet).  I've asked for information about Joan's supposed oil ties so that I can make an informed decision.  I've praised all three candidates for their strengths.

"We're below sharks and contract killers." -- Rep. Trey Gowdy (R-S.C.), speaking on Congress's 9% approval rating

[ Parent ]
No kidding
This is not an earthshattering story. It's an amusing spat between a candidate and talk show host. For some, it reinforces preconceptions that Polis is a spoiled brat with a sense of entitlement. For others, it reminds them why they don't like talk radio. (Among still other interpretations.)

This is a political gossip site, not the White House Situation Room. The level of vitriol is remarkable ("you fucking child").

You know what they say about political disputes among college faculty: the feuds are so vicious because the stakes are so low.

The stakes in this election are about as high as they can get. But that's not true about this particular story. No one's going to care a week from now. But it is hilarious, from all angles.

[ Parent ]
Oh golly.
I hope you were referring to me. I just love that phrase. But I guess some of the "older" bloggers here (ie. YOU) still freak out at the "f" word.

Golly gee, awfully sorry for offending your delicate sensibilities. :)

"I wouldn't characterize caloric intake as "professional development." c rork

[ Parent ]
Fuck that
Yes, it was a reference to you, but just an example (and you have no idea how old I am.) There's nothing wrong with the "f" word. It was an example of how vitriolic this discussion has become.  
[ Parent ]
Actually, we just freak out
at adolescents who think they are being daring and avant garde by repeatedly invoking a word that every eight-year-old scrawls on a toilet wall.
It only detracts from your arguments, which generally have a lot of merit. Think twice before descending to GoBlue's level. You're better than that -- if you let yourself be.
[ Parent ]
Hehehehe.
I'm a middle aged woman but I do love you for referring to me as an adolescent. Hard to get mad at your for making me feel youthful. ;)

"I wouldn't characterize caloric intake as "professional development." c rork
[ Parent ]
Adolescence is a state of mind.
And I didn't want to make you mad, I wanted to make you reflect. The tone of your response indicates that you've at least started doing that. Good for you.
[ Parent ]
Yes, yes, it worked.
I think I'm off for awhile. After listening to Marvin, I'm going to find it difficult to read comments defending his behavior so rather than stick around and get worked up, I think I'll go work outside for awhile and do something productive.

Nice to see you back, by the way, Bob. You were missed. I keep meaning to mention it when I see you comment.  

"I wouldn't characterize caloric intake as "professional development." c rork

[ Parent ]
Thanks.
I meant what I said about respecting your views. I have a perfect record of never having listened to Jay Marvin and that probably accounts for my low blood pressure.
[ Parent ]
The stakes in this election are about as high as they can get.
.
In what way ?

What difference will it make who wins,
if all three have the same positions on almost all issues ?
.

and thanks for that college faculty rule of thumb.
.

[ Parent ]
Dead on, Barron.
These election will have a huge difference on the career path of three people.  Otherwise, it will replace a moderately liberal democrat with a moderately liberal democrat. At a secondary level, you could add a woman to the modest number of women in Congress, or even double the number of openly gay representatives at a stroke. Otherwise, fun to watch, but not likely to change the course of history _ or herstory.
[ Parent ]
stakes in this election
You're right, the 2nd District primary is pretty low stakes (except for the three who are running). I meant the 2008 election in general. All the other stuff we talk about here.
[ Parent ]
Funny,
I didn't hear him say anything about Joan's campaign contributions.  I find it hard to believe the radio would have the time in a couple days to go through all donors and find a few out of thousands that have contributed to certain campaigns.

The few hundred thousand dollars she has received from oil and gas don't don't warrant a questioning?  Or that she is now saying the tax breaks and subsidies need to go?  She's the one who ushered through the Dream Bill a few years ago to the huge benefit of oil and gas.  Let's have more double talk, can we?

[ Parent ]
Those donations were publicized long ago
Jay at least used to cruise SquareState, and I remember them showing up there.  His show also has a blog, an e-mail address, and an "IM" system of some sort.

"We're below sharks and contract killers." -- Rep. Trey Gowdy (R-S.C.), speaking on Congress's 9% approval rating
[ Parent ]
Good points
Why is it fine for any of us to have that information easily at hand but somehow it's suspicious when a radio talk show host has the same facts, when it's his job to prepare for interviews?
[ Parent ]
My point is that
I didn't hear him trying to dig up anything against Joan.  Will he do the same against Shafroth?  If you dig deep enough, you're going to find the dirt you seek.
[ Parent ]
From a Sound Engineer's POV
Regardless of the words said I would like to call to attention the sound of the voices you hear.  Here is a link to Marvin's interview of Senator Fitzgerald   http://a1135.g.akamai.net/f/11...
Please notice the clarity and presence of her voice.  These are things that are noticed subliminally by a listener, they hear that and think believe that she is clearly refined and well spoken.  Now listen to the interview with Polis.  Notice the grainy quality to his voice and how it sounds like he is at a distance.  The impression upon the listener is that the candidate is out of touch and unrefined. This is not a difficult thing to do with a rather simple sound board and can make a big difference in how an audience interprets the interview.  It would be wise for any candidate to find a volunteer who some experience with sound to help out and make sure that their candidate is heard properly.  (Hi!)

Votes have a well known liberal bias, along with facts, figures, statistics, the media, and the truth.
Nice plug
should've just left a business card.

I am too am available for pontificating or making balloon animals--seriously.

[ Parent ]
Do you do Wedding anniversaries, Danny?
We're coming up on our 40th!  
[ Parent ]
Talk to Jared
I hear he pays well, maybe you could decorate the office?

Votes have a well known liberal bias, along with facts, figures, statistics, the media, and the truth.
[ Parent ]
I would work for Polis
I think he has intellect, and I think he has heart.

However...

I think he listens to people he shouldn't (Art Laffer and the folks at the II) and adopts some of their ideas for their apparant elagency (vouchers for instance-privatization of the USPS), listening is fine.  

He doesn't listen to people that he should.  He was warned by friends that A41 was poorly written, but he pushed it through to give him a big issue to hit JFG:  bad strategy, bad law.

He doesn't recognize other people's power and it leads to dust ups like this one with Marvin (who is an idiot).

He suffers from the hubris that almost always accompany's smart men who succeed early: hubris.  He so trusts his own opinion that he does not listen to others.

He's involved in a lot of things I am interested and I would be happy to tell him what I think.

...and if the pay were right, I would decorate his office

[ Parent ]
if the pay were right
Who knew "pontificating or making balloon animals" was a viable job in this crazy economy? God, I love this country!
[ Parent ]
Hey pontificating is all they do on talk radio
I'd love to be part of a cable news rogues gallery of "experts."

Balloon animals--learned it from a former circus clown who used to hang out in my grandma's bar.  Nothing like having a alcoholic clown as a mentor.

[ Parent ]
Nothing like having a alcoholic clown as a mentor.
.
Is it similar to having one as the leader of the most powerful nation on Earth ?
.
[ Parent ]
alcoholic clown
But he's a dry drunk.
[ Parent ]
The difference
my alcoholic was a wise man whose job it was to be a clown

The alcoholic in the white house is a clown whose job it is to be wise.

[ Parent ]
I believe that Joan was actually in the studio
while Jared called in by phone.  That would be the studios fault, not the candidate. But nice plug anyways!
[ Parent ]
Actually...
Perhaps if Polis had stopped off today instead of yesterday he might have had a better signal.

"We're below sharks and contract killers." -- Rep. Trey Gowdy (R-S.C.), speaking on Congress's 9% approval rating
[ Parent ]
the studios fault
How is that the studio's fault? There are limitations trying to make a cell phone sound as good as a professional microphone. In addition, anyone calling a radio show on the phone is, by definition, not in a studio, which has its own benefits as far as sound clarity, etc. If Fitz-Gerald went to the studio and Polis didn't (this time), that sounds like choices the candidates made.
[ Parent ]
My point was not to blame the studio
It was more to express that without the person being interviewed even knowing they could be made to sound different over the air, especially if the host has a grievence, choice of microphone makes a huge difference.  I also did not know that jared was calling in, I was under the impression he was in the studio, so that is my bad.  sorry

Votes have a well known liberal bias, along with facts, figures, statistics, the media, and the truth.
[ Parent ]
Point taken
Your description of the sound quality differences was on point. I listen to AM talk radio once in a while, and even on a bad car stereo, it's obvious that hosts, reporters, guests and callers all come from wildly different sources. That's a fact of life on radio.

it was another poster who said it was the studio's fault, and I took issue with that characterization, because it could imply the studio (radio show) had a hand in making Polis sound worse than Fitz-Gerald, when it was up to the candidates to visit the studio or not. There's so much blame flying around this topic, I was attempting to diffuse that notion. The poster, I realize, could have simply meant the difference was due to one being in the studio and one being on the phone.

Marvin also pointed out on today's show that he let Polis stay on the air longer than he had with Fitz-Gerald. So what? Only the campaigns and the fanatics are dissecting this to that degree, and their minds are already made up.

[ Parent ]
On this topic
I have it from a reliable source that Polis offered to come in to the station but the station decided that he should just call in.  I am sure however that they had a perfectly good reason to do this, perhaps they were in a studio that was too small for two people.

Votes have a well known liberal bias, along with facts, figures, statistics, the media, and the truth.
[ Parent ]
small studio
Marvin does rather fill the room, I'd imagine.

OK then, studio's fault. Those damned liberals. I mean, liberals of a certain kind.

[ Parent ]
Benefit of Doubt to Polis
I hardly ever tune-in to The Jay Marvin Show. I find him to be an inadequate talk show host, an unskilled interviewer, and  too self-important to be interesting.

So, if there is a controversy between Jay Marvin (or whatever his name really is) and Jared Polis, one should give the benefit of the doubt to Polis.

It is too bad that there aren't any good progressive talk show hosts in Denver ... on 760AM, Marvin is a boor and the 'local' show afternoon 'Frito Bandito' talker is a San Diego-based phony.

"Frito Bandito"?
I don't care much for Mario either, but c'mon, why go to his ethnicity?

Seriously.  I'd expect more from a Green Party person.

"But when I see a 9-11 victim family on television, or whatever, I'm just like, 'Oh, shut up!' I'm so sick of them because they're always complaining."  Glenn Beck  

[ Parent ]
Precisely
Chandler heads up the angry hate brigade on the far left. Bereft of actual ideas, but full of mindless rage.

And crooked, too. I always wondered how he managed to pay for his 7th CD campaign without ever filing an FEC report.

Non impediti ratione cogitationis.

BTW, I "adduced" this all by myself, you total fucking assclown.
-Laughing Boy


[ Parent ]
Sounded like jabba the hut sitting on his thrown and farting on Jarid
Jay Marvin is a typical radio talk show host with egomaniacal rants which are nothing more than vitriolic flatulations.  He set this crap up yesterday to make sure the ratings were good for today.  He just needed the stooge to walk in and fall on his face -- and he found that in Jared.  You obviously can't bully Jared into an apology and if Jabba err err Jay would have set it up a little better, he may have gotten one.  That fat-cat didn't need an apology anyway, he was having fun manipulating the interview.

Note to Jay -- mix in a salad.  You sound like you have 3 donuts stuck in your mouth when you talk.
Note to Jared -- open your eyes before you trip again.
out    

Jay Marvin
I am a JFG supporter. I have never heard or heard of Jay Marvin and don't live in CD2. How many voters in CD2 actually listen to Jay Marvin? Or anything on AM?
[ Parent ]
Does anyone listen to any radio anymore?
I think it's been years since I've listened to a radio station (of course, if some played Russian Pop I might).

I asked my daughters if they did and they looked at me like I was a complete moron (a common reaction to any question I ask of them).

Clearly some people do because it's running and has ads. But I agree with you - it doesn't seem like very many do.

Where all the cool kids will be on Saturday - Code War!

[ Parent ]
I listen to the radio
And AM too.  I listen every night.  That's because at night, when the D layer of the ionosphere is nearly nonexistent, the stations in the AM broadcast band propagate for a thousand miles or more.

It's interesting because I can hear news from stations all over the US.  I have lots of stations programmed into my radio.  WHO in Des Moines.  KFI and KNX in Los Angeles.  KSTP in Saint Paul.  KKOB in Albuquerque.  WCCO in Minneapolis.  KFAB in Omaha. WBBM in Chicago.  And many more.

You should try it, David.  You might hear something from outside Boulder.  You might even learn something about America.

Today, you're either going to get better or you're going to get worse, but you're never going to be the same.  Which one will it be?  --Joseph V. Paterno

[ Parent ]
I have bad hearing
it's a side effect of my cancer treatment. So I much prefer reading. I do read blogs from all over the world. And I read a ton of history.

But radio, nope.

Where all the cool kids will be on Saturday - Code War!

[ Parent ]
Well, that was unnecessarily rude. n/t
[ Parent ]
At night...
Doesn't it have to be after midnight? I don't know about you but I'm in bed long before then (and if I'm not, I'm reading).

Actually, I was up last night around midnight and checked out a couple of those stations... I couldn't really get a good signal but the Des Moines and Albuquerque stations were broadcasting the same program, one that I found you could listen to on KHOW and runs for 5 hours. Not much reason to tune in.

"Thank you for putting your rank political motives on display." - ArapaGOP

[ Parent ]
good god, someone has to listen to anti-american right wing radio rant
we had listening posts all over the world during the cold war..that is one of the reasons we probably won....that and american jazz and rock n roll...

.you have to know what the other side is saying.....by the time it hits the print media or even the blogs..it is old and/or the lies are institutionalized...

and u have to catch the local stuff.....right now...boyles is beating the drums for trouble in august......u can skip caplis/silverman...they are usually talking dirty..disguised as public policy discussion on gays, sex, gays, sex, etc.....
but most of the talking points which show up here come from Rosen....

we good guys on the left ought to take turns listening to this crap....just so we are not surprised...

Uncle Bill Bennet is sounding the gong on the supreme court decision on habis corpus...."we will all be slaughtered in our beds by terrorists released by the 5-4 decision".....bennet scares the ladies....for fun, profit, and repubs.

REMINDER:  for you childlren, there is a film, "A Face in the Crowd" which describes the power of media ...it is almost fifty years old....and still scary as hell....it is on TMC in the Denver market at 6 PM Saturday night...



 For politics, geezers are golden.
by: BlueCat @ Tue Aug 16, 2011 at 19:19:14 PM MDT

[ Parent ]
Someday I will
I have a hard time because, unlike the blogs here, I can't personally respond to the BS the jocks spread and it drives me crazy. I guess that's a flaw in my temperament. But even without that, I'm too busy with my kids in the morning to tune into that stuff. Glad you're keeping tabs, though.

"Thank you for putting your rank political motives on display." - ArapaGOP
[ Parent ]
you could always listen to number stations
If you get bored or want something cryptic.
[ Parent ]
Eh? What are those?


"Thank you for putting your rank political motives on display." - ArapaGOP
[ Parent ]
They're cool if you are a nerd
Which I am. Essentially they are shortwave transmissions that officially dont exist. They are a combo of brief music and a person saying a series of numbers.

You can listen to them through this link as well as some history: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N...

Started in WW2 and were used a lot in the Cold war.

[ Parent ]
very interesting
I was nerdy enough as a kid to listen to WWV (the official time station) on my dad's antique radio. I should get a shortwave radio and do that again...

"Thank you for putting your rank political motives on display." - ArapaGOP
[ Parent ]
Google "conet project"
There's a whole album of them compiled and released with a PDF book that explains each one.

Non impediti ratione cogitationis.

BTW, I "adduced" this all by myself, you total fucking assclown.
-Laughing Boy
[ Parent ]
I listen to NPR daily
No ads, great reporting, and bbc worldservice at night.

To jump into the discussion, I dont listen to Jay Marvin, but a friend gave me his book "Punk Blood" for christmas a few years ago. Sort of avante garde-esque story the details I have since forgotten. I remember it was one sentence long with only a period at the end for punctuation.

[ Parent ]
KCFR
i listen to kcfr every day.  thats CO public radio for those who dont know

Votes have a well known liberal bias, along with facts, figures, statistics, the media, and the truth.
[ Parent ]
Voters with radios?
That'd be a tough call, as the Denver radio market splits among four congressional districts, and at least one-fifth of the 2nd District has difficulty receiving Denver stations.

KKZN AM 760 isn't highly rated (it finishes 20th out of 29 stations in the Denver market Feb-Mar-Apr 2008), but it's not nothing. By comparison, KBCO 97.3 FM has three times as many listeners (using the standard ages 12 and up, 6 a.m. to midnight ratings) and is the 5th most popular station in the Denver market. Does anyone listen to AM? The most popular station, for something like the 40th straight year, is KOA 850 AM, which has just over four times the listeners of Marvin's station (and something like 40 percent more than KBCO). (KOA has many more listeners than that across the region, but those are the Denver numbers.)

I would imagine as many interested listeners (2nd CD Democrats) pick up the shows on the Internet, but that's just a guess.

[ Parent ]
One small observation
I have not heard the broadcast (I was on a plane at 6:00 am Denver time and when I got here had a boatload to do at work).

A very important part of legislating (and relationships) is learning how to apologize when you're right. This does not mean an abject apology for all sins, imagined and real. But it does mean finding parts of the issue you can apologize for. At a minimum, say that it was not intended the way it was received and apologize for the mis-impression.

Regardless of the culpability and motivation of both parties, it would have been to Jared's credit if he had tried to find some middle ground. A talk show host does not need this skill, but a legislator does.

Many times the most powerful phrase in the English language is "I'm sorry."

Where all the cool kids will be on Saturday - Code War!

Wise observation
I don't know in this particular situation, as Polis backers seem to be rallied by his refusal to admit error (and her "I Won't Back Down" stance certainly carried Hillary Clinton a ways through the final primaries), but your point makes a lot of sense.
[ Parent ]
it will remain powerful
so long as people dont abuse it too much

Votes have a well known liberal bias, along with facts, figures, statistics, the media, and the truth.
[ Parent ]
no danger of that
it's why it's so powerful, most people are unwilling to say it.

Where all the cool kids will be on Saturday - Code War!
[ Parent ]
an apology was called for.......
but not in that manner and not in the face of that barrage.  Polis should have been more assertive with his "I'm not apologizing for saying hello." CD2 needs a politician with a little more backbone and grit.  Nice ain't gonna cut it and neither will an apology.  Apologize.  you freaking liberals kill me.....
[ Parent ]
I'm sorry


Where all the cool kids will be on Saturday - Code War!
[ Parent ]
And, David, your overdue apology to me?
you misread  a comment I made and were vicious in your personal attack....and thought what? ur too important to apologize to a senior citizen and fellow cancer survivor?  why?

I have two concerns about u David....one is the knee jerk reaction to what u perceive as sterotype...that is bad for dems...plus, i served my country, unarmed in a situation in which i damm well learned about domestic terror...i don't deserve to be insulted ....

Second,  how to balance 1st amendment rights against  public safety is absolutely at the core of what is happening in our country, today.  If an individual cannnot even discuss the issue without being  verbally bombed, we are in deep trouble as a country.. This is the reason I persist.  You stopped a valuable discussion.

 For politics, geezers are golden.
by: BlueCat @ Tue Aug 16, 2011 at 19:19:14 PM MDT

[ Parent ]
You've totally lost me
How is the above a personal attack?

Where all the cool kids will be on Saturday - Code War!
[ Parent ]
A Note From Jay Marvin
I hardly ever post in public places. But I thought I would leave this post. I found the Polis information on my own. Second I like Joan, but I also like Will too. Polis, unlike the others, thought he should get better treatment. He thought so to the point he had to come dowm here with out calling and he started in on John Turk my producer. Not only that his press people kept emailing us over and over again, and wouldn't take no for an answer. ANY Democrat that would take money from people who have contributed to the Swift Boat people, and not return that money has a real problem. Why didn't he say "OK, I don't need their money, and they are unethical people." No, instead he tried to tell me he had converted them in to being liberal? Come one. If he has so many supporters why does he dump 3.1 million into the race unless he's trying to buy it? So you can call me all the names you want. The facts are the facts. And right now I like Will the best.
From what I have heard,
the Swift Boat money was donated to charity a while ago. Way to attack the candidate you don't like and go easy on the ones you do. Very professional. Jackass.
[ Parent ]
Citation for that?
Polis made no mention of that on the show. He did say Udall and Perlmutter likely have taken contributions from Swift Boat donors, which drew strong denials.
[ Parent ]
Jared Polis and the Art of Self-Flagellation | 128 comments
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