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Romanoff v. Bennet Candidate Forum Live Blog

by: redstateblues

Tue Feb 16, 2010 at 18:39:43 PM MST


( - promoted by Colorado Pols)

Round 1! Ding ding! Let the gloves come off! Ok, so they probably won't resort to fisticuffs, but you never know.

Voyaguer and myself will be your gracious MCs as we give you blow by blow accounts of the first debate (Denver Young Dems has billed it as a "candidate forum") between US Senator Michael Bennet and his primary challenger, Former Speaker of the House Andrew Romanoff

Feel free to weigh in, and remember to click back often as our live blog will appear as commentary below this post--plus, you don't want to miss what I'm sure will be sparkling commentary from our usual cast of madcap characters.

Denver Young Dems will be streaming the debate--audio and video.
redstateblues :: Romanoff v. Bennet Candidate Forum Live Blog
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Romanoff v. Bennet Candidate Forum Live Blog | 240 comments
The event is scheduled to begin at 8:00 PM
But it these are Democrats running for Senate, so they're going to need 60% of the crowd to vote yes on cloture before the debate can officially begin.  :)
Thanks for doing this guys
I decided to not go when I heard you'ld give us the blow by blow.

Where all the cool kids will be on Saturday - Code War!
I know, this is great.
We can actually stay home in our pajamas. :)

"I wouldn't characterize caloric intake as "professional development." c rork
[ Parent ]
And watch the Olympics!
n/t

Today, you're either going to get better or you're going to get worse, but you're never going to be the same.  Which one will it be?  --Joseph V. Paterno
[ Parent ]
Oooh, there's figure skating tonight.
Gosh, I hope I'm up to multi-tasking.  

"I wouldn't characterize caloric intake as "professional development." c rork
[ Parent ]
I hope so too.
n/t

Today, you're either going to get better or you're going to get worse, but you're never going to be the same.  Which one will it be?  --Joseph V. Paterno
[ Parent ]
Speak for yourself
We're all working late (development side) because we just got a tremendous opportunity - and need get 3 final bug fixes in and to test the snot out of one of our programs by tomorrow morning.

Ah the joys of owning a small software company...

Where all the cool kids will be on Saturday - Code War!

[ Parent ]
Ouch. Bummer.
[ Parent ]
I'm work late on tues every week
Not a good day of the week for the swing shift..every other day of the week is regular day shift....odd I know

judge elected officials by their actions, not by their rhetoric
[ Parent ]
I doubt this will bring you much comfort
but I don't have a computer at home so I'm still here at work--just let the boarding dogs out for the last time and am finally on my way home. Been here since 7:30 this morning and did paperwork while following the debate. Enough for tonight, I think.

Have a good one, Ray.  

"I wouldn't characterize caloric intake as "professional development." c rork

[ Parent ]
How can you survive?????
without a computer at home? That's horrible.

Where all the cool kids will be on Saturday - Code War!
[ Parent ]
Because I'm at work 14 hours today WITH one.
When would I use it at home? While I'm asleep?

I don't have cable or satellite at home, either. No cell phone and no long distance on my home phone. Just a DVD player for movies. It's fantastic. :)

"I wouldn't characterize caloric intake as "professional development." c rork

[ Parent ]
You don't get to wear pajamas
at the office, if you're working late (development side)? Dude, you should start your own company where you can set the rules!
[ Parent ]
Done!!!!
Well actually about 10 more minutes of putting the final build together - but everything works and so we're just about done.

As for my part, one of the large bugs I had, which I spent hours chasing down, was I forgot to define a build var in the release build (it was in the debug). Stupid!

Where all the cool kids will be on Saturday - Code War!

[ Parent ]
Voyageur here'

The first q from aaron harber;:

The first q from aaron harber;:

Who do you serv e, motr??????

[ Parent ]
Quick, what was the answer?
:) You are about to break Sharon's heart, you know.

"I wouldn't characterize caloric intake as "professional development." c rork
[ Parent ]
Must be dogs
I thought all the pissing on the leg was for a reason.  That must be it, she "just let the boarding dogs out".  
[ Parent ]
The answer from Sen. Bennet:
"Don't you mean 'Whom do you serve,' Sharon?''
WORKING LATE
SUFIMARIE AND I ARE WORKING LATE TOO SO DON'T SHOW OFF DAVID.

"NOW IS NOT THE TIME TO GIVE UP FIGHTING FOR HEALTH CAFE WITH A PUVBLIC OPGION" - Senator Michael Bevnett
[ Parent ]
Jersey Transplant
I never asked you.

What exit?

Today, you're either going to get better or you're going to get worse, but you're never going to be the same.  Which one will it be?  --Joseph V. Paterno

[ Parent ]
EXIT EXIT NUMBER NINE!
RUTGERS UNIVERSITY
JERSEY SHORE!!!

"NOW IS NOT THE TIME TO GIVE UP FIGHTING FOR HEALTH CAFE WITH A PUVBLIC OPGION" - Senator Michael Bevnett
[ Parent ]
That's a turnpike exit.
I was from from exit 151 (Parkway exit, of course).

In the summer, exit 98.

Today, you're either going to get better or you're going to get worse, but you're never going to be the same.  Which one will it be?  --Joseph V. Paterno

[ Parent ]
Erk... Exit 30 here (I-80)
Congratulations to all of us for making the toll fare so we could escape.

"We're below sharks and contract killers." -- Rep. Trey Gowdy (R-S.C.), speaking on Congress's 9% approval rating
[ Parent ]
THEY'RE BROADCASTING EARLY!
[ Parent ]
damn you sufi


History does not repeat itself, but it does rhyme.  (Mark Twain)
[ Parent ]
Too much coffee for Jersey and Sufi
It's 8 pm, why don't you two have a glass of wine or something?

"Have a Bobby bar! My dad made them." --Jon Huntsman Jr.
[ Parent ]
New Belgium
[ Parent ]
we've got beers!
but they're not helping!!!

"NOW IS NOT THE TIME TO GIVE UP FIGHTING FOR HEALTH CAFE WITH A PUVBLIC OPGION" - Senator Michael Bevnett
[ Parent ]
What are you two stuck doing?
Mostly I'm running builds and then testing the installer. Longs periods of waiting for my computer to finish a build.

Where all the cool kids will be on Saturday - Code War!
[ Parent ]
LOBBYIST DISCLOSURES ARE DUE TONIGHT
yep.

"NOW IS NOT THE TIME TO GIVE UP FIGHTING FOR HEALTH CAFE WITH A PUVBLIC OPGION" - Senator Michael Bevnett
[ Parent ]
I am not a lobbyist
[ Parent ]
I Have Lobbyist Friends


In a democracy, the majority of the citizens is capable of exercising the most cruel oppressions upon the minority. Edmund Burke

10/26/11 Colorado Ex-Pat; S/V Sisu Catalina 30
[ Parent ]
I don't hate lobbyists
some of my best friends are lobbyists...

"There are a lot of reasons not to elect me." Mitt Romney in a moment of clarity

"I'm Mitt Romney and yes, Wolf, that's also my first name," Willard Mitt Romney demonstrating 'policy flexibility.'  

[ Parent ]
The thing with lobbyists
is that they are the bastion of information for legislators AND you know where they stand. They aren't all bad. You just have to utilize that muscle of discernment which can be painful at such high altitudes.  

This blog is your blog, this blog is my blog
[ Parent ]
The only good lobbist
Is one I agree with :)

Where all the cool kids will be on Saturday - Code War!
[ Parent ]
I filed a few days
I never make anything  

judge elected officials by their actions, not by their rhetoric
[ Parent ]
The hall is filling. The hills are alive

With the sound of blogging.

[ Parent ]
Hey, what's RSB wearing?
[ Parent ]
Briefs
[ Parent ]
Ooh.
[ Parent ]
Hemp briefs. n/t

[ Parent ]
This is the first head-to-head debate

Where the hell are you?
I waited in line and I can't find you anywhere. I'm over against the wall with the [whisper] ...MSM...
[ Parent ]
of this campaign. And i have a problem of premature posts.
that I may have just found a solution  many ds are introducing themselves to me as pols readers.   I WISH I had a table to type on, but there is a reason they call them "laptops."  haven't seen rsb.  I'm at the front north side, amigo, and the wi-fi is atrong here.
[ Parent ]
I think you need to start a new thread
What? Not one blog of poor policy has been exposed
yet.

Nice of Bennet to pull out a Scott Brown ... its the People's seat.

[ Parent ]
WHAT THE SHIT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?
That's a rhetorical question.  

This blog is your blog, this blog is my blog
[ Parent ]
Enthusiastic crowd
Bennet and Romanoff supporters gathered outside St. Cajetan's before the doors opened. "Better off with Romanoff!" and "Bennet for Senate!" could easily be heard walking across the NW corner of Auraria.
Just got a signal
"2 minutes" says one of the DYD event organizers.
That's funny
cos that's also what she said.  

This blog is your blog, this blog is my blog
[ Parent ]
Just saw Romanoff and Bennet shaking hands backstage
Apparently they're unaware that they're supposed to be mortal enemies.
the plan is for me to focus on bennet and rsb on ar
that makes it easier to keep up.  but if we wing it, so be it,  i lean ar, rsb to bennet, so the switch may keep us honest,  or not
Thanks!
I got my beer and popcorn.

"There are a lot of reasons not to elect me." Mitt Romney in a moment of clarity

"I'm Mitt Romney and yes, Wolf, that's also my first name," Willard Mitt Romney demonstrating 'policy flexibility.'  

DYD is introducing the candidates
Making a short speech, thanking volunteers and so forth.
thanks to the dyds for welcoming new media.
the young republicans say they will  only use abacuses;-)
Liveblogging
the updates go in the diary, not the comments bee tee dubs.  

This blog is your blog, this blog is my blog
We're doing it in the comments
Deal.
[ Parent ]
No, not here they don't.
The format was set earlier today so people can reply directly to individual comments from V and RSB.  

"I wouldn't characterize caloric intake as "professional development." c rork
[ Parent ]
OK
I guess that will be a recent manifestation of our independent western spirit. Go Broncos!

This blog is your blog, this blog is my blog
[ Parent ]
Deal with it.
[ Parent ]
You're wicked retarded
[ Parent ]
Bennet is introduced to raucus applause
Lots of cheers.

Romanoff gets lots of cheers and his customary standing O from his supporters.

The paid crowd erupts!

[ Parent ]
and AR gets the spirited standing O for all the leadership he's provided

[ Parent ]
Obvious troll
[ Parent ]
The floater
is swirling for this one! Exciting times!

We're all in this story together: Let's make sure that we write it well.
http://www.steveharveyforcolor...
[ Parent ]
intros: Bennet, big cheer, romanoff, big cheer
i call it a draw in the young lungs contest.
Aaron Harber asks the crowd to turn off their cell phones
This intrepid young blogger already had his on vibrate.
moderator aaron harber
each wikk make an opening statement, with ar first:  
Young Dems need to fix their live stream
It's still not up
Their website says
"Sorry. We have experienced technical difficulties and were not able to set up a live stream for the debate. Apologies for the inconvenience."
[ Parent ]
Romanoff gets to speak first
Thanks the young Dems, makes the joke "I won't hold my opponent's advanced age against him."

"Millions of Americans are losing their jobs, their health coverage, and their savings."

"The Senate is where good ideas go to die"

The best way to stop corruption (in the Senate) "Is to turn down corporate PAC contributions."

"It's not enough just to send a Senator back to Congress."

I wonder how he feels about AIPAC?
just wondering........I guess he's against any PAC. That must mean he's anti-AIPAC.

judge elected officials by their actions, not by their rhetoric
[ Parent ]
That wouldn't be a negative
necessarily

"There are a lot of reasons not to elect me." Mitt Romney in a moment of clarity

"I'm Mitt Romney and yes, Wolf, that's also my first name," Willard Mitt Romney demonstrating 'policy flexibility.'  

[ Parent ]
we will have to agree to disagree
n/t

judge elected officials by their actions, not by their rhetoric
[ Parent ]
First question from Moderator Aaron Harbor:
"If I'm a Democrat going to caucus... why should I vote for you? Why you over your opponent."

Romanoff: "If you like the way that Washington works, you shouldn't [vote for me]."

Vows that he will fight backroom deals, and bring leadership to the Senate".

Bennet opens:
" I agee with andrew about the dysfunction in Washin gton.  Even before recession, middle class incomes down while health insiranc e up 95 percent,   NOW IS NOT THE TIME TO GIVE UP FIGHTING FOR HEALTH CAFE WITH A PUVBLIC OPGION .  psledges to go on fighting for democratic v alues.  extends courtesy to crowd.
Shouldn't that be agree Voyageur?
n/t.
[ Parent ]
Bennet opens:
" I agee with andrew about the dysfunction in Washin gton.  Even before recession, middle class incomes down while health insiranc e up 95 percent,   NOW IS NOT THE TIME TO GIVE UP FIGHTING FOR HEALTH CAFE WITH A PUVBLIC OPGION .  psledges to go on fighting for democratic v alues.  extends courtesy to crowd.
ANYONE WITH FREE NIGHTS/WEEKENDS
FEEL LIKE CALLING ME AND LETTING ME LISTEN IN TO THIS THING?  NO STREAMING IS BULLSHIT!

"NOW IS NOT THE TIME TO GIVE UP FIGHTING FOR HEALTH CAFE WITH A PUVBLIC OPGION" - Senator Michael Bevnett
q; DIFFERENCES BETWEEN YOU
BENNET, WILL VOTE FOR IMPERFECT HEALTH CARE bill becaujse willhelp 850,000 coloradasns without health care.  "We needan architecture from which to work."
Romanoff Said He'd Kill Health Care Bill
This was the biggest takeaway from the debate.  Romanoff said he would have single-handedly killed the health care bill if he had been in the Senate because he was unhappy with the deals given to Nelson and Landrieu.  This is what he strongly implied at a HD37 meeting I attended a few weeks ago.  Tonight, he definitively said he would have killed the bill.  Bennet had a great reply about how it was important to pass, even with the deals, and that since then Nelson had backtracked.

I can't wait to get a transcript of that argument.  Caucus goers will be pissed and shocked to learn that about Romanoff.

ITLDUSO  
Honk hello when you see my license plate!

[ Parent ]
This is not a deal breaker for me as the healthcare debate continues.
The legislation as it stands today is a huge give away to the insurance companies and will impoverish the middleclass further. I applaud the decision by AR to speak out against this bill.  

I would be happy if they pushed single payer or the public option through reconciliation.  

[ Parent ]
There is no AR dealbreaker for you.

[ Parent ]
I think you're right-
have you found video yet?
[ Parent ]
Romanoff rebuttal
"It [either vote yes or let the HCR bill die] a false choice"

Calls for a "real fillibuster", where they have to stand on the floor of the Senate, rather than just blaming Republicans and letting business as usual run things.

weak rebuttal...

[ Parent ]
It was more than that
I can't type fast enough to transcribe Romanoff though.
[ Parent ]
I think his response is first-rate, force the Republicans to stand on their feet
and deny Americans needed legislation.
[ Parent ]
Stoop, senate rules don't require a "real filibuster"...
... and the Dems, wither or without Romanoff, don't have the votes to (a) change the filibuster rule back to what it was in the 60s, or (b) eliminate the filibuster.

Romanoff isn't going to impress me, or win the primary, by demagoguing totally unrealistic options.

AraraGOP said Romney will win the nomination and "I don't see how he can survive the next year of withering attacks."

[ Parent ]
Bennet, what accomplishment are you most proud of?
Bennet: I've contributed to a strong public dialoaguer.
in support of Democratic values."

[ Parent ]
and .....
took hundreds of thousands in corporate and law firm donations after being appointed interim senator.

Plus he oversaw the graduation nearly 1 out of every 2 kids who entered DPS for High School.

[ Parent ]
Third flush
and still floating!

We're all in this story together: Let's make sure that we write it well.
http://www.steveharveyforcolor...
[ Parent ]
Libby
your warm milk is ready then you need to brush your teeth say your prayers and get to bed!

"There are a lot of reasons not to elect me." Mitt Romney in a moment of clarity

"I'm Mitt Romney and yes, Wolf, that's also my first name," Willard Mitt Romney demonstrating 'policy flexibility.'  

[ Parent ]
because Repubs never take corporate or law firm money -- right, Libertad? You make so much sense
.

AraraGOP said Romney will win the nomination and "I don't see how he can survive the next year of withering attacks."
[ Parent ]
Romanoff's next question
"What was your biggest accomplishment in the State legislature?"

Mentions investments in education. I believe he's referring to A-23.

"The point of getting power isn't just to keep it, it's to use it to help the people you represent."

Harber asks "Would you be in favor of using reconciliation to pass HCR?"

Romanoff: "Yes."

Bennet: "Yes."

the 'yes' from both candidates
on Reconciliation, shows us all the value of a primary - these two candidates, who are, have been, 'centrists' are trying to out progressive each other.
Winner of this debate: that would be you and me my friends.
[ Parent ]
Spin.
Pure and simple- I think both of them would have answered yes even if the other wasn't in the race.
[ Parent ]
Time will tell if Bennet will have the option to vote for HCR
through reconciliation.  My guess is he is fighting for progressive votes in the primary, trying to make it look like he supports the public option but when it actually is time for him to vote I'll bet he backs down. This is my opinion of course.
[ Parent ]
We get that
Sharon: all things good=Andrew; all things bad=Michael.

When has your universe ever been more nuanced than that?

"There are a lot of reasons not to elect me." Mitt Romney in a moment of clarity

"I'm Mitt Romney and yes, Wolf, that's also my first name," Willard Mitt Romney demonstrating 'policy flexibility.'  

[ Parent ]
And thus,
Sharon's opinion = irrelevant.

An object lesson in how to marginalize yourself, in one easy (but interminable) step.

We're all in this story together: Let's make sure that we write it well.
http://www.steveharveyforcolor...

[ Parent ]
or terminal n/t


"There are a lot of reasons not to elect me." Mitt Romney in a moment of clarity

"I'm Mitt Romney and yes, Wolf, that's also my first name," Willard Mitt Romney demonstrating 'policy flexibility.'  

[ Parent ]
Wade, for the love of all that is good and right
You need to stop repeating this like it's the truth. Bennet already said that he would use reconciliation to pass HCR with a public option in the 9/9/09 Denver Post.

I don't know if you can put the dates in order or not, since you seem to have such a hard time with it every other time you try to use this theory, but that is at least a week (no clue when the interview was actually conducted) before Romanoff announced his candidacy.

Now, despite all of these attempts at distorting and misinforming people about Sen. Bennet's position, I'm starting to think there might be some truth to the idea that this would make Bennet a stronger candidate--though it's not from a policy perspective.

Having watched him in the debate last night, I can safely say that Romanoff's presence in this race has forced Bennet to become a better candidate--his performance side by side with Romanoff last night is proof enough of that. Bennet not only held his own with one of the most dynamic and engaging personalities in Colorado politics, but more than that, I bet he reassured many of the people who are going to caucus and vote in the primary for AR that if MB does end up being the nominee, they can feel happy voting for him in the general.

So I think if there's anything to take away from this, it's not that two moderates have been "pushed" any way on any policy, but rather that two good candidates are turning into better candidates. Democratic values and policies on display for the voters, and proving that Bennet and Romanoff are much more capable of helping to solve our country's problems than Jane Norton or Ken Buck.

[ Parent ]
can you provide the link for that
i have googled the search for Bennet's statement on Healthcare and reconciliation and the Denver post, and only comments on this site come up.
I also searched the Denver Post archives from 9-8-09 to 9-10-09 and only 2 articles mentioning Bennet come up.
It's (not quite) official: Norton to seek Senate  Article 2 of 3 found
  Karen E. Crummy The Denver Post
September 9, 2009; Page B-02
Section: DENVER AND WEST
Article ID: 1469711 -- 276 words

Wadhams staying put to oust Ritter  Article 3 of 3 found
  Karen E. Crummy The Denver Post
September 9, 2009; Page B-02
Section: DENVER AND WEST
Article ID: 1469712 -- 223 words

neither are articles about HCR.
do you have the link?

[ Parent ]
hlaf baked innuendo and bloviating turns into fully baked lie
Us (thanks rsb)
1) http://coloradopols.com/diary/...

+
DenPo
2) http://www.denverpost.com/poli...

+ 10 -15 seconds on the google

"Why do Republicans get to be stupid and win while whenever we're stupid, we're just stupid?"  sufimarie Feb 2010

[ Parent ]
Bennet's also been saying he supports reconciliation
at campaign events since early January, when it became a realistic option. Even when Romanoff was dithering over whether to run for governor.
[ Parent ]
I already replied in private to Wade, who reached out through e-mail
But just in case anyone else is wondering, the second link BlCora posted in response to Wade is the link to the DP article where Bennet said he would vote for reconciliation to pass a public option (and by extension HCR.)  
[ Parent ]
Does this mean Wade
is going to come back and acknowledge a correction either here or in the other diary where he falsely asserted the same errors?

Or will he find other half-truths and innuendo to support his false contention that only the primary challenge has gotten Bennet to do or say what Bennet was doing and saying long before AR filed?

"Why do Republicans get to be stupid and win while whenever we're stupid, we're just stupid?"  sufimarie Feb 2010

[ Parent ]
Maybe
Wade will reply in private to rsb.

[ Parent ]
/crickets/


"Why do Republicans get to be stupid and win while whenever we're stupid, we're just stupid?"  sufimarie Feb 2010
[ Parent ]
Romanoff was referring to BEST
or Building Excellent Schools Today, the school construction act. He makes explicit reference to it all the time as his proudest accomplishment. He'd probably agree Amendment 23 was significant, and involved investment in public education, but that's not what he was talking about.
[ Parent ]
Q: wud you b e in favo9fr of using a 51 vote mAJORITY
to  pass healoth care reform thro9ugh reoconciliation pro cess?

Bennet: Yes and I seNT Harry Reid a letter today to thaqteffecxt.

AR also said Yes.

Bennet increase capital requirements o n banks
and protect xconsumers from credit card abuses.
Won't that kinda policy restrict lending further
Good banks have already up'd their capital positions without regulatory mandates
[ Parent ]
The difference btwn Bennet and you
is that he's not an economically illiterate boob.

Okay, one of the differences.

We're all in this story together: Let's make sure that we write it well.
http://www.steveharveyforcolor...

[ Parent ]
Is this the respect you speak of Steve?
n/t.
[ Parent ]
There are forms of abuse of this forum,
including the noise pollution of absolutely blind and mindless ideological chanting, combined with a flailing, ubiquitous belligerence, that merit no respect whatsoever. You and Libertad offer the two most prominent examples of that abuse on this blog.

My intention had been to go back to ignoring you as the meaningless droning background noise that you are, as you explicitly asked me to do. But if that is your preference, why are you now buzzing in my ear, begging to be swatted down?

We're all in this story together: Let's make sure that we write it well.
http://www.steveharveyforcolor...

[ Parent ]
Tonight
This is the theme of the night, they agree on everything. Should never have gotten to this point, AR doesn't have the monies to compete.
Monies is plural
Bennet has a couple mill. And by the looks of it, Romanoff has the political capital to compete. Is it worth something?

Just saying

This blog is your blog, this blog is my blog

[ Parent ]
Bennet has 3.8 million
and AR has 460k......

Sec.Salazar per Manny spent 15 million. Per Udall's staff person, he spent 19 million.

460k sure competes

judge elected officials by their actions, not by their rhetoric

[ Parent ]
Perhaps if AR wins the primary Bennet can run as an independent
and pull a Joe Lieberman.

Times have changed Ray and the American people are engaged so this election cycle money is going to take a back seat in my opinion.  

[ Parent ]
Money never takes a back seat in an election
There are times something else also has as much power as money, but money always gets to sit in the front.

Where all the cool kids will be on Saturday - Code War!
[ Parent ]
Sure it does.

When a candidate is running unopposed in a district where the registration numbers are wayyy in their favor, making the seat safe asl long as they don't change party affiliation.

Say, for example, a young, smart D in a south central Denver house district 2000-2006.

"Why do Republicans get to be stupid and win while whenever we're stupid, we're just stupid?"  sufimarie Feb 2010

[ Parent ]
Its votes that count in this game my friend
and millions in corporate contributions could be double edge knife these days
[ Parent ]
Not in the general
Caucus voters will chose the candidate who has the best shot at the Senate seat. Hopefully that is.
[ Parent ]
Shhh, I can't hear.

[ Parent ]
:)


We're all in this story together: Let's make sure that we write it well.
http://www.steveharveyforcolor...
[ Parent ]
Next question for Romanoff
"How much do you think these people (the Senate) understand when it comes to economics?"

"Not very much..." "If I was in the Senate today, I would stop giving taxbreaks to companies who ship jobs overseas..."

Says he would follow Sherrod Browns's lead by turning down the Federal health care benefits that are offered to members of Congress.

Where does AR make his money??

[ Parent ]
Investment trusts, same as Bennet

[ Parent ]
Sure sounds nice

[ Parent ]
L'tard is like a slinky ...
... not really good for anything, but brings a smile to your face when pushed down the stairs.

"Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge." --ChuckieD, 1871
[ Parent ]
:)

[ Parent ]
that's probably true
......

judge elected officials by their actions, not by their rhetoric
[ Parent ]
Romanoff:
Says he would have voted for cramdown. "Most of its [the Senate finance cmte] are subsidized by the banking industry."

"If they're too big to fail, then maybe they shouldn't exist."

That should have said
"Most of its members..."
[ Parent ]
Both Bennet and Romanoff are doing a great job
It's too close to call right now IMO. Bennet is definitely exceeding my expectations.
Q: What should fed policy be on new stimulus, and both the annual deficit and long-term debt.
Bennet: Bush inherited $5 trillion debt, it's now $14 trillion.  I agree with andrew this is immoral.  My daugfhter told me "Just to be clearf, I'm not paying that back,"
I helped proimote a military base closing commission.   But Repubs andsome
dems haven't been serioujs aboujt debt reduxction.
BENNET: DEMOCRATS HAVE PRIVILEGE TO LEAD NOW

[ Parent ]
You mean surplus
Bush inherited a surplus.  

This blog is your blog, this blog is my blog
[ Parent ]
Bennet meant surplus
He did say debt.
[ Parent ]
The debt was decreasing
Because there was an annual surplus, but there was still a big debt. Math!

"Have a Bobby bar! My dad made them." --Jon Huntsman Jr.
[ Parent ]
Thanks
So Bennet was correct when he said $5 trillion debt?
[ Parent ]
yes
n/t

judge elected officials by their actions, not by their rhetoric
[ Parent ]
No, sufi
Bush inherited an annual surplus but 4% trilolion i n long term drbt.   He neaRLY TRIPLED thqt debt.
[ Parent ]
Best exchange of the night so far
Bennet agrees with Romanoff, Romanoff replies "You should join the team!"

Bennet says "I wish you were running a primary against one of the people who was actually causing all of these problems!"

[ Parent ]
Nice blow
but the faithful won't be moved
[ Parent ]
That sounds like an excellent reply
Bennet says "I wish you were running a primary against one of the people who was actually causing all of these problems!"

Did that sell as well in person as it sounds here?

Where all the cool kids will be on Saturday - Code War!

[ Parent ]
Yes

[ Parent ]
Well said

[ Parent ]
yes

[ Parent ]
budget surplus on an annual basis
NAtional debt was 5 trillion and being paid down by the surplus.

National debt differs from annual budget deficit..

judge elected officials by their actions, not by their rhetoric

[ Parent ]
NOTE TO CANDIDATES:
Do not tell me that your daughter says she's not going to pay it back. It's rude and it sounds privileged. THX

This blog is your blog, this blog is my blog
[ Parent ]
Ohhhh.
I know who's line that is!

We're all in this story together: Let's make sure that we write it well.
http://www.steveharveyforcolor...
[ Parent ]
What?
[ Parent ]
One of the two
repeats that line regularly.

We're all in this story together: Let's make sure that we write it well.
http://www.steveharveyforcolor...
[ Parent ]
I take it you don't have kids
They all say things that way. Not to disagree with your framing of it - but that's generic to most all kids.

Where all the cool kids will be on Saturday - Code War!
[ Parent ]
I kind of love that kid for saying that.
Why the fuck should any kid be stuck with $30,000 of debt the minute they are born? It's the height of irresponsibility to pretend this is in any way acceptable or okay.

Out of the mouth of babes, so to speak...

"I wouldn't characterize caloric intake as "professional development." c rork

[ Parent ]
Voyageur are you typing on a BlackBerry or are you just too old to be there?
n/t.
[ Parent ]
WTF

Judging Others
Lk. 6.3738, 4142

1. Judge not, that ye be not judged.

2. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. Mk. 4.24

3. And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

4. Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?

5. Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

6. Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.

Posted by Sharon Hanson on this site, Feb 11 2010. (5 days ago)

[ Parent ]
I already learned recently
that treating SH TCO as if she's sane doesn't work.

We're all in this story together: Let's make sure that we write it well.
http://www.steveharveyforcolor...
[ Parent ]
Hmmm

austic

razy

lueless

omplaining

rabby

hurlish

ranky

onfusing

onsternatious

onfounding


"Why do Republicans get to be stupid and win while whenever we're stupid, we're just stupid?"  sufimarie Feb 2010

[ Parent ]
Don't forget
ombative and

antankerous!

We're all in this story together: Let's make sure that we write it well.
http://www.steveharveyforcolor...

[ Parent ]
And let's not forget the one that applies the most:
[ Parent ]
ROTFLMAO!


We're all in this story together: Let's make sure that we write it well.
http://www.steveharveyforcolor...
[ Parent ]
:)
[ Parent ]
Restraint is just not in your tool kit, is it?


"Why do Republicans get to be stupid and win while whenever we're stupid, we're just stupid?"  sufimarie Feb 2010
[ Parent ]
Nope.
[ Parent ]
I love that kind of no holds barred politics
Remind me never to cross you for no good reason.

"Why do Republicans get to be stupid and win while whenever we're stupid, we're just stupid?"  sufimarie Feb 2010
[ Parent ]
are you just too old to be there?
Sharon, are you an asshole in real life or just on blogs?
[ Parent ]
One final pair of suggestions
for SH TCO:

1) If you really support Andrew, the biggest favor you could do for him and his campaign would be to start blogging in support of Bennet;

2) and, similarly, if you want to do the Democratic Party the biggest service imaginable, become a Republican.

Your gratuitous rude and antagonistic remark to Voyageur moves you from "pathetic" to "disgusting."

We're all in this story together: Let's make sure that we write it well.
http://www.steveharveyforcolor...

[ Parent ]
Bennet
trim discretionary spending, stop tax breaks fo0r companies thAT SHIP jobs overseAS.
Same question to Romanoff
"What is the biggest challenge facing us?"

Romanoff: End Tax breaks for companies that send jobs overseas, and mentions Citizens United as "magically turning companies into people."

"As long as companies are able to bankroll Congress, we aren't going to see these reforms any time soon."

BENNET AGAQIN stesses health care.
Sorry for the lousy tying, stable platgform and arfthritic hands.
Can you please quiet down in the back?
The Sufimarie and Libertad comments are getting old for those of us trying to follow the live blogging here.

It's like hecklers in the back, making fun of everything and everyone and just trying to be disruptive, except that those of us trying to listen can't throw them out.

[ Parent ]
internetting is hard
[ Parent ]
You're doing great
and you are providing for lots of signature lines that will keep us laughing for weeks!

"Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge." --ChuckieD, 1871
[ Parent ]
Romanoff asks Bennet to make a pledge to turn down PAC contributions
Bennet responds by saying that Romanoff did a great job as Speaker of the House, and not only did he take PAC money, but he had his own PAC. "I didn't even know you (meaning elected officials) could have their own PAC."
Raucus applause on Romanoff asking Bennet about PAC money
One audience member shouted at Bennet "Answer the question!"
[ Parent ]
If I was Bennet, this is how I would answer:
Well, you took PAC money and apparently it didn't corrupt you so I feel pretty confident I'll be okay. :)

"I wouldn't characterize caloric intake as "professional development." c rork
[ Parent ]
"Will You Take Money From Y person/pac/group?"
Any candidate for any office should have the answer handy.  So far no one has asked me that one on the trail.

In a democracy, the majority of the citizens is capable of exercising the most cruel oppressions upon the minority. Edmund Burke

10/26/11 Colorado Ex-Pat; S/V Sisu Catalina 30
[ Parent ]
expanded - but still paraphrashing

MB: You did a great job in the CO House, you did a great job as Speaker when you took PAC money- in fact, you had your own PAC - I didn't even know you could have your own PAC - and it gots lots of donations and lots of PACS donated.

It will be televised/streamed in about 10 days  - lots of energy in the room here.


[ Parent ]
Bennet twits ar
for raising PAC money as spoeaker of the house, but sayhs we need to fight the4 republicaqns, not other.  
Ar and
bennet ezxchanged a num vber f jabs, crowd loved it, but no real substaqnce or kn ockdowns.  Bennet beating ezxpectations as soeaker and debater.
He isn't beating the expectations of people who actually
hear him speak occasionally.

judge elected officials by their actions, not by their rhetoric
[ Parent ]
Speaking at a house party
Is a lot different than a real debate with an opponent in front of hundreds of people. Nearly everyone had low expectations for Bennet going into this, and thought AR would win. I believe it is pretty much a draw.
[ Parent ]
ok
I'm just not surprised. I've seen him on c-span too
But I'll give tbis one to you.
AR is supposed to be the great debater

judge elected officials by their actions, not by their rhetoric
[ Parent ]
True. He and the House Democrats lived off of corporate, trial lawyer and union cash infusions
It was a management tool he exploited very well...you know allocating other peoples money and taxing those who failed to conform to the leadership stance.
[ Parent ]
Call the plumber! It's backing up now!


We're all in this story together: Let's make sure that we write it well.
http://www.steveharveyforcolor...
[ Parent ]
that's Joe the plumber
n/t

judge elected officials by their actions, not by their rhetoric
[ Parent ]
Next question
"When it comes to climate change, what is your feeling about the role of humanity, and what do you think we should do?"

Romanoff: "I think the Federal gov't should take a note from Colorado, and I thank Gov. Ritter for his work on this issue."

"I think the Senate made a mistake by splitting the difference with Cap and Trade... [a carbon tax] would be much mroe cost effective." Romanoff adds that a carbon tax has the ability to be deficit neutral, and avoids "the gaming that Cap and Trade can invite."

Kudos to Romanoff
He's spot on about a carbon tax being a lot better.

Where all the cool kids will be on Saturday - Code War!
[ Parent ]
It's an enormously complex issue,
with a variety of pros and cons on both sides, and shifting balances when considering more global v. more local, and longer term v. shorter term. More locally (even to the national level) and in the shorter term, carbon taxes are probably better (lower administrative costs, particularly). But I wouldn't be quite so glib about it in absolute terms.

We're all in this story together: Let's make sure that we write it well.
http://www.steveharveyforcolor...
[ Parent ]
Steve, I am shocked
that you think an issue is more complex than the rest of us :)

Where all the cool kids will be on Saturday - Code War!
[ Parent ]
Not all of us
A carbon tax does not set limits on total carbon production and does not have an intrinsic mechanism for progressively reducing total carbon production.

Cap and Trade does have this advantage. On the other hand, CnT is (as AR noted) vulnerable to gaming. Especially with offsets since what is being traded here is a "product" that is invisible and odorless and NOT being produced. How the hell do you take receipt of this sort of a product?

I tend to favor the tax route. Part of this is irrational -- as a recovering Catholic, I still find indulgences distasteful. If you find the concept of Cheat Neutral offsetting, then you can understand my misgivings about carbon offsets. (However, if you are unable to remain faithful, I will, for a fee, offset and thus neutralize your indiscretions.)

"Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge." --ChuckieD, 1871

[ Parent ]
Couple of minor points, Ardy.
You're right, of course, that a tax offers price certainty but quantity-of-reduction uncertainty, while cap-and-trade offers the opposite. But taxes can be gamed as well, in the realities of the political process (and thus, our wonderful tax code that David discussed elsewhere today). Granted, the complexities of the cap-and-trade regulatory regime, and the enormous information demands on the system, invite all sorts of potential mischief. But there is a lot of specific attention to those areas most vulnerable to such mischief (involving issues of additionality, leakage, and permanence of reductions which generate compliance units on the market) among the Kyoto regulatory agencies, for instance, whereas the politics of politically motivated tax breaks ends up receiving far less attention.

We're all in this story together: Let's make sure that we write it well.
http://www.steveharveyforcolor...
[ Parent ]
Yes
I'm not in anyway challenging your points, Steve. I was just, in my typically inartful way, trying to point out that there are advantages and disadvantages to the different approaches for limiting RAGs (Radiatively Active Gases).

Simple has no intrinsic value. If simple solves the problem as well as another approach, then this parsimony adds beauty. But if simple does not produce the desired solution, then the beauty is embodied in the result, not the method.

A positive about Cap and Trade is that it rewards innovation much more than a tax would. And this is something I really like about it.

"Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge." --ChuckieD, 1871

[ Parent ]
I think simple does have intrinsic value
Simple systems that work tend to work very well and be self correcting. Complex systems tend to have numerous side-effects that only become apparent over time and tend to not self-correct well because there are so many pieces in play.

And when it's the government setting something up complex is an invitation to people to find ways to game the system.

Where all the cool kids will be on Saturday - Code War!

[ Parent ]
Our modern market economy
is comprised of a combination of numerous simple and complex architectural innovations accumulated over the years, most of which are utterly indispensible. Simple solutions to problems are absolutely preferable when the accomplish as much as complex ones. They are often preferable when they accomplish somewhat less than complex ones could, but do so more cheaply and with less risk of market failures. But complex solutions are preferable to simple ones when the challenge at hand requires a complex solution, and simply cannot be effectively addressed by a simple one.

It is very often the case that when you get down into the weeds of a problem, and begin to take inventory of all of its facets, of all of the forward and backward linkages involved, of all of the moving parts and joints and pivots, of all of the diverse interests that will have to be brought together into an agreement, you recognize that you will need to develop a very complex piece of regulatory architecture to address that problem. Such is the world we live in.

We're all in this story together: Let's make sure that we write it well.
http://www.steveharveyforcolor...

[ Parent ]
LOL.
But it is incredibly complex.

I've studied it in multiple contexts now (in resource economics, over a decade ago, and now in three separate law classes- energy law, environmental law, and climate change law). In the context of working toward a global solution to climate change, cap and trade is really the only choice, because it's the only equalizer among nations in vastly different conditions. There would be no way to arrive at an agreement on, and implement, carbon taxes acceptable to all parties even in all major GHG emitter nations.

We're all in this story together: Let's make sure that we write it well.
http://www.steveharveyforcolor...

[ Parent ]
We could have tax rates set on a per country basis
And then raise/lower them to bring carbon emissions to the level desired. And set a rate at which over time they equalize across equivalent economies.

The beauty of a tax is it's very straightforward and simple to implement. Less gaming and less overhead.

Where all the cool kids will be on Saturday - Code War!

[ Parent ]
No, we could not.
Study the negotiations leading up to and including the Framework Convention and the Kyoto Protocol. Tax rates on a per-country basis would never have been agreed to (due to the absolute impossibility of all parties agreeing to a single distribution of taxes as being fair and equitable), and would not have been efficient (due to isolating countries from one another, rather than allowing efficiencies of international trade in carbon off-set markets).

Yes, that is the beauty of a tax. But when faced with a global problem, and in the absence of a global government, we need mechanisms that work transnationally. Markets are precisely such a mechanism.

You love simple solutions in a complex world. And under certain conditions, simple solutions are possible and desirable. Unfortunately, under many other conditions, they are neither.

We're all in this story together: Let's make sure that we write it well.
http://www.steveharveyforcolor...

[ Parent ]
Since I've been harassing David all day
I'll agree here. I tend to favor these straightforward solutions. If I look at my energy bill and see a carbon tax, I'm more likely to change my behavior than if it's assessed indirectly.

Make it flat, exempt some amount, and then just do it. Call it an emergency measure.

This is the same feeling I have on the gas tax. Just increase it. Regressivity sucks, but if the price to pay is a bunch of complication and invasiveness, it seems like a reasonable compromise.  

"Have a Bobby bar! My dad made them." --Jon Huntsman Jr.

[ Parent ]
But you're treating global warming
as a national problem amenable to a national solution. It isn't. It's a global problem requiring an international solution. And we have no global government with which to impose and implement a tax on GHGs (which include, in the Kyoto protocol, six gases, as well as forestry and land use sources). We do, however, have the ability to create an international market for GHG reductions.

We're all in this story together: Let's make sure that we write it well.
http://www.steveharveyforcolor...
[ Parent ]
We've created transnational systems before
Like a lot of the stuff around pandemic warning and response. It can be done. And simplicity is something that is way under-appreciated by governments.

Besides, if SXP & I agree - can it be a bad idea?

Where all the cool kids will be on Saturday - Code War!

[ Parent ]
See my above response to your
"intrinsic value of simplicity" post. The pandemic warning and response challenge does not involve as many competing interests and backward and forward linkages; it is a problem tailor-made for a simple solution. The fact that an addition equation can be solved within the framework of a simple arithmetic architecture does not imply that a matrix of differential equations can be as well.

I'm not arguing that a GHG tax can't, eventually, be a part of a global solution to global warming, or even the main part of the emissions reduction regime. I'm merely arguing that when you study the topic, and take inventory of the challenges and complexities involved, you know that you are in no position to declare that you are in possession of the one obvious simple answwer to the problem. My defense of cap-and-trade isn't due to my own inflexible conclusion that that is the only way to go, but rather to my recognition of the two sides of the argument that must be taken into account.

We're all in this story together: Let's make sure that we write it well.
http://www.steveharveyforcolor...

[ Parent ]
I agree it's difficult
In the current environment. And I don't have a good solution for that. But I think ideally it's a better idea, and I'm glad Romanoff advocates it.  

"Have a Bobby bar! My dad made them." --Jon Huntsman Jr.
[ Parent ]
Climate change?
Bennet applauds ritter leadership on new energy economy.   I blv climate change is real and human aactivity contributes mightoly to it.  Break dependence on  foreign oil,  c reate new energy jobs at h9mel  

germanyhas more clean tech jo0bs than auto9m9obioe jobs.  We can't say that.
This lEGISOLatio9n  is vitaL to Colorado.  

but the mayor holds a contra position
oops, wrong diary
[ Parent ]
When have you ever been on the right diary?


We're all in this story together: Let's make sure that we write it well.
http://www.steveharveyforcolor...
[ Parent ]
Romanoff:
Agrees with Bennet that "National security is at stake" when it comes to energy and climate change. Reiterates that he will provide leadership on that issue in the Senate.
AR again calls for u.s.
mericanshav e them,  I wish he'd drop this silly ass idea.  
That does no9thing, the millionaires club  tghat is the Senate woujld never missthis  benefcit.
should have saID FOR U.S. SENATER to drops its heaLTH benefits until all
Americans have them.  IMO, thisw rivalos the WhipInflation Now pin s of an earlier era as a really frivolous idea.
[ Parent ]
V is referring to Romanoff's call
for Congress to give up its health care plan until HCR is passed.
[ Parent ]
Ah, thanks.`
[ Parent ]
Romanoff
Says the Colorado Senate doesn't run the way that the US Senate does. "We don't spend forever talking about bills in the Colorado Senate, it just seems that way." Good one.
We're at the close already :(
Harber is telling everyone that the debate will be available online and on TV (Comcast).

Bennet is first, I'll let V give you the summary.

BENNET CLOSE
USUAL kudos to crowd.
Sats we live in mostbeatiful stqate in u.a.but our schools and roads are cxrumbling b ecause we won[tg make invesatmenss for our childreen (voyAGEER COMMENT Thankyou
doug Bruce)
Send me  back and I'll fight for o9ur children as our p-arentws fought for us.

big cheersw.

Romanoff's closing
"At the end of the day, I think this election isn't about my job, and it isn't about Michael's job. It's about yours. It's about all the Coloradans who have lost their jobs."

Says he's proud of the work he did in the GA. Taking on insurance companies, took on polluters. "These aren't just talking points for me."

Romanoff is now relating a letter from an unemployed woman from Colorado Springs who sent him a $10 check. "Please remember us when you get elected," Romanoff says that the woman who donates $10 is just as important as big money donors. "If the Democratic Party doesn't fight for her, then no one will. When I get to Washington I will fight for her..."

My verdict
Both did well, Bernnet perhaps "better than expected," because he's not known as an oraTOR.  I'LL declare the candidate the winner who firwst gives me a cold
PBR!  blogging is thirsty work.  Thaqnksw for aall you polsters for your faith in our democratic process.
Agree, Bennet held his own

[ Parent ]
Large standing ovation for both candidates at the close
Romanoff and Bennet shake Harber's hand as well as each other's. Both men are now working the crowd shaking hands.
Thank you both for doing this.
Amen sister

[ Parent ]
What have you done with Libby!
And what are you doing at his computer?

"There are a lot of reasons not to elect me." Mitt Romney in a moment of clarity

"I'm Mitt Romney and yes, Wolf, that's also my first name," Willard Mitt Romney demonstrating 'policy flexibility.'  

[ Parent ]
true
stuck at work til 9pm, no live feed,...thank you

judge elected officials by their actions, not by their rhetoric
[ Parent ]
yes, i vote that the winner(s)of the debate
is RSB and Voyageur, for giving us the play by play.
[ Parent ]
Thank you
Voyaguer and RSB for doing this, much appreciated.
Yep, good job.


We're all in this story together: Let's make sure that we write it well.
http://www.steveharveyforcolor...
Disappointed
I was hoping one of these guys was going to start screaming like Karl Rove last night in Boulder. Priceless  
Thanks!
Thanks to all who kept us informed.  Nice work.
Thanks, guys!
We had a party here and we couldn't have done it w/out you there.  

This blog is your blog, this blog is my blog
I declare the winner to be
The people of Colorado. A civil substantive debate is of tremendous benefit to the body politic. Kudos to both candidates.

Where all the cool kids will be on Saturday - Code War!
Overall

It will be on tv and the web in approx 7-10 days.
http://www.colorado2010.com/
(I propose we have another discussion of it then assuming we're still in a primary)

A lot of it was predictable- they were very civil to each other, respectful of the process and their place in it.

Oddly, without actually saying it out loud, I got the strong feeling that AR has a magic wand or faire dust or something because if he had been in the Senate we woulddda got single payer by now.

AR made a big deal out of the point that "it only would have taken one Senator in the majority party, just one, to stand up and say no to the special deals for Nelson and Landrieu and other back room deals"  
I look forward to the broadcast, cause it sure felt like he said he'd be that Senator. Ie., he would have killed the Senate HCR bill.

Overall- I heard what I've been hearing: AR can change the discussion , but he can't win.  I didn't hear anything from AR that practically addressed how he would be a better Senator. Yes, no PAC money, but that does not convince me he'd be a better Senator.    


It was awesome.
I still have an adrenyline rush and haven't read any comments... yet.

Andrew Romanoff was more Andrew tonight. Less snark, more kindness, more caring about Colorado -- very refreshing.  Michael Bennet showed the tough, principle side we have been wanting him to have with Andrew.  He did not let Andrew differentiate himself at all.  

Both men at the top of their game. LOVED IT!an't wait for more.

Buck Stops Here.

Thanks everyone for reading and commenting!
Even Libertad acted like a human (eventually.) What is this place coming too?

I'm going to post a more thorough analysis tomorrow morning, but I thought both Romanoff and Bennet did a great job. Either one of them will mop the floor with whoever the Republicans nominate.

And special kudos to the Denver Young Dems, who did a fantastic job putting everything together. Despite some apparent technical issues with the live stream at the beginning, everything else went perfectly. I was happy to have donated $15.

Romanoff v. Bennet Candidate Forum Live Blog | 240 comments
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