Monday Open Thread

“Battling with evil gives us the power to battle evil even more.”

–Ossie Davis

60 Community Comments, Facebook Comments

  1. unnamed says:

    Trump and by is minions stink!!!

    Stay upwind my friends.

  2. mamajama55 says:

    CHB, do you know about this group, the Western Way?

    Conservative conservationists. Whoda thunk it?

    • OrangeFree says:

      Teddy Roosevelt thunk it. Conservatives in the west thunk it, too, up until about a decade or so ago. Hell, conservation was the thing Conservatives went with because it wasn't Environmentalism.

      • Duke Cox says:

        It is worth noting ,OF, that "conservation" is defined two different ways in the west, depending on to whom you are talking.

        In the case of oil and gas, and other minerals presumably, what "conservation" means is leaving nothing in the ground. What they are "conserving" is monies (severance taxes) to be paid to the state residents through various mechanisms,  all of which stress "conserving" the value of the resource by making sure none of it is "wasted" by leaving it in the ground.

        Isn't it great what you can do with words?

      • Conserv. Head Banger says:

        Yes, I'm aware of them (Western Way). There are other conservative groups engaged in environmental protection. Also sportsmen groups, such as the Theodore Roosevelt Conservation Partnership and Sportsmen for Responsible Energy Development. The former poster here, BlueCat, kept saying last year that I'm alone, the last of my kind. You see that she was wrong.

        It's our conservative way of telling regressionists like Trump, Pence, Pruitt, Rob Bishop (R-UT), others, to take their b.s. baloney and stuff it. And their Pols local minions like PP, Moderatus, Andrew can stuff their share.

    • MichaelBowman says:

      ConsevAmerica is good org run by a great guy.

      • Conserv. Head Banger says:

        ConservAmerica has its value. I know some of the players there. However, they did a major faux pas early this year when they endorsed Scott Pruitt for EPA administrator, thinking they could work with him. Don't think that notion is working out well.

        • MichaelBowman says:

          I didn't know about the Pruitt faux pas. I don't follow them closely but run into their President Rob Sisson at least once a year. He's a really decent guy. 

          • Conserv. Head Banger says:

            I don't know if the Pruitt mis-step is still up on C.A.'s web site or not. It certainly stirred interest among some of the partisans of the old Republicans for Environmental Protection who aren't directly affiliated with C.A. But I do agree about Rob.

            • MichaelBowman says:

              Did you ever have the chance to work with Tweeti Blancett? 

              • Duke Cox says:

                I met her a couple times. Interesting lady. A rancher from NM or AZ as I recall. A very vocal and effective advocate during the O&G wars.

                • MichaelBowman says:

                  I had the opportunity to shadow her twice in DC a decade ago when we were both working on renewable energy policy (2007 Energy Act) and I was still a Republican at that time. She is very effective.  Don't know if she's still kicking dirt on the Fossilonians or not – but I loved her style. 

                  • Duke Cox says:

                    I have a similar recollection. She visited Garfield County a couple of times during the heat of the battle over surface owners rights ( or lack thereof, more precisely). I got to know her husband Linn…great guy.

                    • Conserv. Head Banger says:

                      Michael: I may have met her once. She was mostly active in the late 1990s and into the 2000s. Her name hasn't come across my e-desk in quite a while. I think her ranch was/is in NW New Mexico.

                    • MichaelBowman says:

                      Yes, it was in NM just south of Durango as I recall. 

  3. Diogenesdemar says:

    Making America great Trump . . . again (cripes) . . .

    . . . I gotta' say, I don't know about you, but I'm really fucking tired of this winning streak.


  4. JohnInDenver says:

    An interesting take on Trump as P.T. Barnum, as portrayed the musical Barnum. Saw it first on, and was somewhat surprised to see it again on Salon.

    President Trump: This way to the exits

  5. MichaelBowman says:

    Half Scoop has some pfruitsplain' to do…

    "What I suspect is the most important detail in this story is the sources. The Times reports that they got the information from 'three advisers to the White House briefed on the meeting and two others with knowledge of it.' They apparently talked after the release of the first story. This is highly, highly significant. Needless to say, advisors to the White House are not in the business of taking highly damaging stories and volunteering new information which makes them catastrophically damaging. The only reason a President’s allies ever do something like that is either to get ahead of something much more damaging or get a first crack at shaping the public understanding of something much more damaging. There’s really no other explanation. We don’t know yet what drove them to volunteer such highly damaging information. Five of them did it. It wasn’t a matter of one person going rogue."
    ~ Josh Marshall

    • Diogenesdemar says:

      So to recap: At first, Jonny Jr. claimed that he never set up a meeting with Russians to talk about sabatoging Hillary Clinton’s campaign. Then, when the Times found out he did set up the meeting, he claimed it was just about adoption. Then, when the Times found out that it was in fact about the campaign, he claimed that it was about adoption AND the campaign (but mostly about adoption). Then after a night of backlash, Don Don dismissively tweeted, “What, as if you wouldn’t have met with her to talk about the campaign??”


      • ParkHill says:

        Why did Manafort (Trump's campaign manager) attend the meetings. Was the Trump campaign interested in Russian orphans?

        And Kushner? Maybe he and Ivanka were thinking about adopting a Russian baby?

      • MichaelBowman says:

        Let's look at this story another way: HalfScoop wants to murder his wife, and while he looks like he could star in American Psycho and be a murder (he isn't), he's not sure where to look for a hitman, so his friend recommends one to him and sets up a meeting. Donald Jr goes to said meeting, starts having a conversation with the hitman and determines that this guy is sloppy and will definitely lead the police to conclude I ordered my wife's murder. Donald Jr gets up and leaves, not ordering anything. 

        This is still illegal – it's a conspiracy to commit murder. 

        And that's what we have here, a conspiracy to collude with a known hostile, foreign, entity. Donald Trump Jr. met with a foreign agent of the Russian government under the pretext that this person would have damaging information to use against Hillary Clinton (he admits this in his statement to the Times). He included in this meeting Senior Advisor to candidate Donald Trump, Sr Jared Kushner and his campaign manager, Paul Manafort. After communicating with the Russian lawyer for a while it was determined the information was "bad," and subsequently ended the meeting. 

        The end result is the same: they were willing to commit a conspiracy to collude to bring down a political opponent.  

        Questions remain: who set this meeting up? And what more is coming down the pike to continue to fuel the flames that the Trump Campaign and the Russians worked together to bring down Hillary Clinton. 

        We have smoke, and we have a gun, time will tell who pulled the trigger.

        • Conserv. Head Banger says:

          Thought I saw something recently that Paul Manafort has again registered as an agent of foreign governments. Don't recall quickly which ones.

          To quote likely thoughts, about Michael’s story above, from PP, Moderatus, Andrew…..that’s all nice fake news, but we really need to talk about Hillary’s e-mails and Benghazi.

        • Diogenesdemar says:

          Upon further review, perhaps the Russian adoption alibi may have some merit . . . 

          . . . it's been several years now since TwoScoops Jr. had himself a new mommy; maybe someone's in the market for a new-model Presidential upgrade?

  6. Diogenesdemar says:

    " . . . the greatest Trumpest Coulterist political document since the Magna Carta."

    WARNING — disturbing image, eye bleach will be required. (If I were a Republican Senator, I'd probably be buying eye-bleach stock.)

  7. bullshit! says:

    Guys, what's up with Ed Perlmutter…?

  8. Duke Cox says:

    I have scanned a few news sites…I wonder if this is the one we have been anticipating. How they gonna weasel out of this one? I think martial law is the only answer.

    Ed who? 🙂

  9. MichaelBowman says:

    The slippery slope free fall to #MoreDumber.  While Moddy embraces his liburty-lubin, gun-totin' teaching lady (with no health insurance and a crush on Adam Smith) and all those fine Hatriots at his special school, our Founding Fathers and Abraham Lincoln roll spin in their graves:

    Poll: Most Republicans say colleges have negative impact on US

    A majority of Republicans in a new survey think colleges and universities have a negative effect on the U.S.

    The Pew Research Center poll finds 58 percent of Republicans and Republican-leaning independents think colleges and universities hurt the country.


    • MichaelBowman says:

      PS:  Moddy, did you see where the marijuana tax is helping building yet another school in rural Colorado?   Thank you Andrew Romanoff and Gail Schwartz (and everyone else involved) for your leadership in laying the foundation for the BEST program. 

      Outdated, sagging Colorado schools get $300 million boost from pot sales, other taxes

      “I don’t care where the money comes from, if we get a new school, I’m for it.”

      • Duke Cox says:

        Seems I remember that $300,000,000 figure as being about what the O&G industry is GIVEN every year with the Ad Valorem program. Give or take a few million.

        • MichaelBowman says:

          I've forgotten the exact details but didn't Sonnenberg try to run a bill that would prohibit state funds (through Energy Impact? I know the fund was an oil and gas fund of sorts) from being given to local units of government that exercised permit control over the O&G guys or instituted moratoriums?  In some ways this theory is applicable to places where they've prohibited cannabis cultivation or retail (damned near every rural county).  Should they get the benefit of these dollars? Philosophically I'd lean towards no, but I don't think the children of the old white folks who are still running a #ReeferMadness fever should have to pay for the sins of their father. 

          • mamajama55 says:

            The only Sonnenberg bill (I could find) close to that description was SB15-093, which made local governments which restricted O&G into "takers" which then had to compensate the mineral rights owner. That bill died in the House.

            Perry Buck tried to pass a similar bill in the House that year. (It also died)

            Sonnenberg also sponsored several bills to make it more difficult to implement the Clean Power Plan, in 2016 and 2017. They also died in the House (postponed indefinitely)

            Almost all of Sonnenberg's energy bills died in the House, except the one he passed this year, which penalized protesters who try to shut off a pipeline.   He was so pleased, he called a press conference.

            Haven't seen any legislation prohibiting local governments from receiving funds from activities that they ban.

            • MichaelBowman says:

              Thanks for the sleuthing, Mama. I found it; it was longer ago than I thought  

              Cities that ban drilling would lose severance revenues under initiative

              Municipalities with bans on oil and gas drilling would be barred from their cut of statewide taxes amassed on the fuels if Coloradans approve a ballot initiative being pushed by a pair of Republican state lawmakers. 

              The initiative announced on Thursday by Reps. Frank McNulty of Highlands Ranch and Jerry Sonnenberg of Sterling would prohibit local jurisdictions from receiving severance tax revenues while bans or moratoriums are in effect. 

              Front Range cities including Boulder, Fort Collins and Lafayette have voted in support of bans or moratoriums on oil and gas drilling. If the initiative makes the November ballot and voters statewide support it, those cities could stand to lose out on some of the estimated $275 million in severance taxes state economists project could come next year from oil and gas drilling.

              • mamajama55 says:

                No problemo. It gave me a chance to see just what a dick my state Senator is – as if I didn't know that already. I'll have something to talk about with him next time he comes around on a photo-op "listening tour".

                It's interesting that he felt he had to bypass the regular legislative process to try to get this done, instead going the initiative route.


    • mamajama55 says:

      1. How did you find a photo of one of my star pupils? I think he wrote his essay on how Trump would make America grate again.

      2. What's up with the Lite beer? True patriots only drink the full-sugar, full-alcohol brew.

      3. Regarding your post about CO's pot sales tax funding the BEST grants – that's how my town is funding the renovation and rebuilding of both the middle and high school – yet people still have to drive 10 miles to the nearest dispensary to buy any form of the evil weed. They're definitely not giving the money back, however!


      • MichaelBowman says:

        That's how you spot a genuine Dumphikian, MamaJ: they hate all those libural policies that generate taxes (and subsidize their farms) but they aren't about to pass up free money from the very gummit they despise. Because somehow they earned it (a generalization that's generally true) 

    • Diogenesdemar says:

      If . . . 

      . . . your Economics education ended with "Adam Smith," your Literature education ended with "Dr. Suess", and your Science education ended with "Genesis," . . . 

      . . . well then, without any doubt at all, you're definitely a 21st-century Republican!!!!!

      (h/t some redneck)

  10. mamajama55 says:

    Excellent article in Yes! on how the ACA was bringing down the rural unisured rate. Then Trump happened.

    Both the House and Senate bills to repeal and replace Obamacare would drastically reduce rural Americans’ insurance coverage and significantly threaten the ability of many rural hospitals and clinics to keep their doors open. Analysts show that the bill would provide insufficient tax credits to pay for rural premium costs, drastically increase the price of rural premiums and increase uncompensated care in rural hospitals.

    I know premiums on the individual markets are still higher here in the sticks, but access to needed care is fundamental. Is Cory paying attention? His staffer asked me if I thought health care was a "privilege or a right". I told her that it's a right, that every other industrialized country has a public health care plan.

    But apparently Cory still feels that health care is for the privileged few.

  11. MichaelBowman says:

    There's something utterly glorious about TwoScoops channeling Rob Kardashian…

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