71st General Assembly Day One Open Thread

Off we go.

16 Community Comments, Facebook Comments

  1. VoyageurVoyageur says:

    All right everybody, Out for volleyball!

    Sean Connery, A Thousand Clowns.

  2. VoyageurVoyageur says:

    Rumor has it that American traitor Bradley Manning may have her sente nce commuted by Obama.  (She now goes by Chelsea.)  Please , Mr. President, a sex change does not excuse treason.  Don't disgrace your legacy by celebrating treason.

  3. Conserv. Head Banger says:

    And your comments are relevant for a thread about the Colorado State Legislature in what way? 

    • Andrew Carnegie says:

      Because it is the daily thread for Thursday renamed.


      I also sense there may be some surprise commutations and pardons a la Mark Rich coming down the pike.

      • VoyageurVoyageur says:

        Most of the pardons/ commutations are commendable ameliorations of drug war exceseses.  But every honorably discharged veteran will be dishonored if Bradley Manning prances out of prison on the strength of a few shots of estrogen .

        • mamajama55mamajama55 says:

          Manning wouldn't be released from prison on the strength of "a few shots of estrogen".

          Manning, who revealed evidence of Guantanemo torture, child trafficking in Afghanistan, and the number of civilian deaths in Iraq, corruption in Arab countries contributing to the Arab Spring, among other items, has already served six years of her 35 year sentence, much of it in solitary confinement, and is asking for commutation of her sentence to time served. This would be in line with sentences for other whistleblowers.

          I personally think Manning meant well – meant to reveal evidence of wrongdoing in an effort to stop abuses associated with the Iraq war. I don't think she meets the definition of "traitor".

          Julian Assange is a separate case – I think we can conclude that he has been corrupted or won over or terrorized by Russia, and is currently serving Russian interests. He probably actually is a traitor at this point.

          • VoyageurVoyageur says:

            Assange is not a traitor to America for the simple fact that he isn't an American.  He is australian.  Manning decided he was a woman the day after drawing a 35 year sentence for espionage.  Gee, I wonder why? He was no whisle blower, he was a traitor, working for the spy Assange.  If you think his sentence was stiff, look up julius and ethel rosenberg.  

            Manning's treason put the lives of American soldiers, diplomats and foreign friends at risk.  So far his main legal victory was the right to wear women's underwear.  Hope the thrill lasts for another 29 years because that is when he is getting out unless Obama betrays America himself.  And I don't think that will happen.


            • Andrew Carnegie says:


              We don't need a whistle blower to inform that there is corruption in Arab counties.  All you need to be able to do is read a little history and current events. Baksheesh is the local term.  In the Muslim world paying interest is not permitted.  Requiring the payment of bribes is an art form.

        • Curmudgeon says:

          I'm a veteran, and I could not care less about what happens to Manning;  the Army even admitted that no deaths could be attributed to his leaks, as massive as they were.  http://www.courthousenews.com/2013/07/31/59869.htm   Anyone who's been in the military can tell you that the military justice system is far from fair.   His case was an attempt to make an example.  It's not uncommon.  He was of low enough rank that they could do their worst. 

          "Military justice is to justice what military music is to music"  (Several sources, from Groucho Marx to Georges Clemenceau)

          I actually find it more annoying when people of any political stripe lump all veterans together to make some political point.  Veterans have a certain degree of usefulness to the public. After that, it's preferred that they're invisible.  

          • VoyageurVoyageur says:

            Adm michael mullen, chairman of the joint chiefs of staff, testified that mannings treason did put the lives of u.s. soldiers and afghan informants at risk. I'll believe him over a vague unsourced claim on a blog.  Let bradley manning rot.  And I wish "chelsea" the best of luck in her next suicide attempt.

            • Curmudgeon says:

              That wasn't some vague claim on a blog. That was testimony at Manning's trial, from Brig. Gen. Robert Carr.   


              • VoyageurVoyageur says:

                I'd say the chairman of the joint chiefs outranks a lone bridadier.

                • Curmudgeon says:

                  Sure, he outranks him.  So? The statement "put lives at risk" does not overrule the statement that no deaths were caused, and vice versa. "Putting lives at risk " is what any military member does when they fuck up a critical job.  You want them to have life in prison for falling asleep on post?  

                  When you drive drunk, you put lives at risk.  Should a DUI have the same penalties as vehicular manslaughter?

                  I'm not saying what Manning did was right. Not in the least.  I just think the bloodlust is a little silly.  There are a lot of people walking around free who were directly responsible for the deaths of military members.  They were all of higher rank than Manning.  RHIP, you know?


                  • VoyageurVoyageur says:

                    It is always difficult tying specific deaths to a specific act of treason.   As Judge Irving Kaufman noted in sentencing the Rosenberrgs to death, that doesn't excuse treason.   The Rosenbergs helped Russia get the atom bomb much sooner than it would have without espionage.   That, the judge ruled, encouraged Stalin to support the Korean war which caused thousands of American deaths.    That doesn't mean you can prove causation, that Ethel killed Lance Cpl. Willie Smith while Julius killed Sgt. Louis Wilcox.   But their guilt was still massive.

                    In fact. the Rosenberg Treason was small change compared to the detailed nuclear knowledge passed on by British physicist Klaus Fuchs and other high ranking traitors.   But they intended to give Russia the bomb and paid with their lives.  (personally, I think it would've been better Public relations to give Ethel life and Julius the chair, but that's a quibble.)

                    Bradley Manning knowingly leaked 400,000 classified documents to where America's enemies could find them.   Was that the final straw to make the Orlando shooter or the Paris bombers, etc. decide to kill Westerners.   Who Knows, who cares?   Intent follows the bullet.  Manning was acquitted of aiding the enemy, convicted on five other counts espionage,   He meant to hurt America and admitted in court that he did hurt America.

                    Now, he wants released because he's decided he's a woman! Why does that excuse treason?   If Obama commutes his sentence, it's an insult to every American who ever served honorably.   You don't agree, and that's fine, but I'm pretty sure 80 percent of honorably discharged veterans would agree.



                    • Curmudgeon says:


                      I'm sure you're pretty sure of that figure.  I don't consider veterans to be a hive mind, myself.  But, as I've said, we're awfully convenient tools when someone suddenly wants to care a lot about something…usually caring about harming someone else.  Funny. 

                      By the way, I don’t think your conjecture, broad as it is, is completely out of line. I just don’t agree with it.

                    • VoyageurVoyageur says:

                      Roger on your final comment.   I will say I'm against a pardon or immediate commutation.   Given that he was acquitted of aiding the enemy, potentially a capital charge, 35 years is a mite high.   his own lawyer suggested 25.   rolling it back to 25 years or even 20 wouldn't offend me.   That is still a lot of deterrent to the next would-be traitor.

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