Hillary v. Trump: The Final Round OPEN THREAD

Trump be studying' for the debate.

Trump be studyin’ for the debate.

The final Presidential election of 2016 kicks off at 7:00 pm tonight from Las Vegas, Nevada. We won’t be live-blogging the event because, well, we really just want to focus our attention on catching the moment when Republican Donald Trump takes his final leap off of the relevance cliff.

Will a desperate Trump go lower than anyone thought possible in tonight’s debate? If so, will we even notice? Or are we all just numb to everything Trump says at this point?

Is it even possible that Trump could potentially act like a relatively-normal Presidential candidate during these final 90 minutes of political glory? Will Hillary Clinton come to the stage in a full suit of armor at the behest of the Secret Service?

The end is near. That’s a good thing. Enjoy tonight’s debate…

31 Community Comments, Facebook Comments

  1. JohnInDenver says:

    headline in Fortune magazine:

    Donald Trump Won’t Commit to Accepting the Election Results:

    'I Will Keep You in Suspense'

    Probably NOT the headline the Trump campaign wanted to take over most media outlets.

     

     

  2. mamajama55 says:

    This was a wonkier debate. Donald must be on better drugs tonight. He still can't talk policy with HC, or even with Chris Wallace.  I came in when they were talking about abortion.

    Abortion:

    DT: Hillary wants to rip babies out of the womb at 9 mo. That's not OK.

    HC: Roe v Wade provides to preserve the life of the mother

    CW: Let's discuss immigration.

    border security. New tech. DT started his campaign bashing immigrants. 15 M people, can't rip families apart.

    DT used undocumented workers to build Trump tower. He exploited workers.

    DT doesn't deny this. He says Obama is deporting millions (true).

    Unfair to put people ahead of those waiting in line.

    HC We will not have open borders. We will have secure borders, but we will also have reform.

    Wallace question about wikileaks release. quote:

    Trade: My dream is a hemispheric economy with open trade and open borders.

    HC: I was talking about energy trade only, that's the context. You are quoting people who are doing espionage against us. Will DT admit that russians are doing espionage against us? Will he reject Putin's help?

    DT: She wants open borders. She wants radical islamic terrorists pouring across the borders.

    DT: If we got along well, with Russia that would be good. He has no respect for her. Russia has 1800 nuclear warheads, we don't have .

    HC that's clear that PUtin would rather have a puppet.

    DT, No YOURE the puppet (repeats this) How mature  – my note

    HC : This is unprecedented. We've never had a foreign government interfering with our election.

    HC I am quoting 17 military and civlian intelligence professionals.

    DT: She has no idea who is doing this, it could be China.

    CW: tries hard to get it under control. Do you condemn any interference by Russia or anyone else?

    DT: Of course I condemn it. But Putin has outsmarted her and Obama at evey turn.

    HC This is a person who has been casual and cavalier about nuclear weapons. The bottom line about nuclear weapons is that when the Pres gives the order, it must be followed.10 people who have had that responsibility have said that they would not trust DT with that responsibility.

    Dt : doesn't answer. He doesn't want NATO. She's been proven to be a liar, this is just another lie.

    HC: I'm just quoting you. DT wants to tear up our alliances. Our alliances make us safer.

    CW: We're moving onto the economy. You also have different ideas about how to get the economy going faster. Explain how your plan will work better than your opponents.

    HC: New energy economy. Infrastructure. Raise minimum wage. = Pay for women. Education Pre–K – college. College s/b debt free. No tuition at public colleges. We are going to go where the money is. We will have the top people pay their fair share. This could produce 10 million new jobs. DT's plan is just to give biggest tax breaks to wealthy and corporations, which will cost jobs. This is trickle down economics on steroids.

    DT:  Her plan will double your taxes. It will be a disaster. Japan and Germany, South Korea will pay their fair share  to NATO.  That's where the money will come from.  Under Obama, national debt doubled (fact check, please?)

    I'm going to renegotiate NAFTA. I'll negotiate better deals. We'll cut taxes massively. They're gonna start hiring people. We'll get our engine rolling again. Because we've got 1% GDP.

    HC: No tax raises for incomes under $250K.  He'll cut taxes for wealthiest. Obama's cut deficit by 2/3. Cutting taxes on wealthy will not work.

    CW: Your plan is similar to the Obama stimulus plan, which has led to slowest economic growth since 1949.

    HC: We need to invest from the ground up and the middle out, not the top down.

    CW: Even conservative economists who have looked at your plan, Mr. Trump, say the numbers don't add up. Your response.

    DT: India is growing 8%. Bla bla. We're at 1%. We're stagnant. But because her husband signed NAFTA, factories closed. She's for TPP, called it the gold standard.

    HC: There's only one of us who shipped jobs to Mexico, and that's Donald. He shipped to 12 countries. Trump hotel in Vegas made with Chinese steel. We're going to enforce those agreements.

    Dt: You talk, but you don't get anything done, Hillary. Six billion dollars gone from State Department.

    HC: Not true, but debunked about state department.

    CW: What about the grabbing quote?

    DT: She got all these women to come forward. I've done nothing wrong.

    HC: Since that came up, his defense is that he wouldn't have assaulted women because they weren't attractive enough. So we now know how Donald feels and thinks and how he acts towards women. It's who he is. America is great because America is good.

    DT: Nobody has more respect for women than I do. Nobody. Those stories have been debunked. And what about her emails? She lies all the time. A four star general going to jail…(ed – wtf is he talking about?)

    HC: Every time Donald is pushed on something, he immediately goes to denial and changing the subject. (long list of those Donald has attacked: women, the Khans, Judge Curiel, etc) He incites violence. This is dark and dangerous. That is not who America is.

    CW: I want to discuss fitness for President. Donors to Clinton Foundation got special access to you. What about these conflicts of interest? Is this not pay to play?

    HC: I'm proud of the Clinton Foundation. (touts accomplishments on HIV / AIDS, etc) There is no evidence of pay for play.

    DT (talks over her). It's a criminal enterprise…. Quatar, etc. Why don't you give back the money from countries that treat gays and women badly?

    HC: We spend 90% of contributions direct to recipients (fact check?) The Trump Foundation spent money on a 6' portrait of Donald. Who does that?

    CW: Is it not true that your foundation spent contributions to settle your legal bills? (fact check)

    HC: He has not released his tax returns. So everything he says about charity is doubtful.

     

    …ok I'm done.

     

     

     

     

  3. Voyageur says:

    My new name for Hillary is the Janitor.  For the third time in a row,she mopped the floor with Donald Trump tonight.

  4. notaskinnycook says:

    If my wife and I had had a full bottle on the coffee table at the start of the debate, it would have been half-empty 45 minutes in and we would have been too toasted to follow the second half. We contented ourselves with just shouting "drink!" every time he uttered one of his signature words: huge, disaster, terrible tremendous, etc.

  5. itlduso says:

    I think GOP turnout will be unprecedentedly low.  

    If I were a typical GOP voter, I wouldn't vote so I could say, "Don't Blame Me, I Didn't Vote For Either of Them".

     

    • exlurker19 says:

      And if Trump tells his low insight, heavily armed followers that losing doesn't matter because Vlad wants him to win (essentially what he said last night as far as a rational person could follow word salad), things could get dicey, maybe hugely dicey in Murica the great.

      Dear GOP:  you bought this orange mess because you thought you wouldn't have to pay for it.  Can you be sure you won't be in the target sights of his followers?  They might think you were insufficiently loyal to the Great Orange.  Every thinking Repub out there ought to be marshaling sensible, calming words to prevent what might be just around the corner.  Do you guys know any sensible, calming words?

      His surrogates saying stuff that he’s just going to sue like Gore rang very hollow, probably even in their ears.

      • Duke Cox says:

        Donald Trump is inciting insurrection. He will try to blame the violence on its victims. He is a wholly evil man.

        I would like to state my contempt for every Republican who, through inaction, has unleashed this violent sociopath on our nation. You cannot wash your hands and be free of the blood that will be there as a consequence of your complicity.

        You own him Republicans….do something about it.

         

        • Conserv. Head Banger says:

          At this point in time, Duke, exactly what would you have us (Republicans) do? I would never have voted for him. But Steve House and his cronies took away our (Republicans) right to have a say in the precinct caucuses as to who we wanted for president. I didn't bother to attend our caucus this year; couple of my neighbors told me later that I didn't miss anything.

          • Duke Cox says:

            I didn't bother to attend our caucus this year; couple of my neighbors told me later that I didn't miss anything. 

            The only thing you missed was the chance to do something about it. You and all the other Hillary haters who let your monster get out of control. You who sit blithely by while the Congress sits on its hands, determined to drive America into the dust. You who look the other way while the wealthy steal the birthright of every American.

            Are you are Trump supporter…no.

            Are you a Trump enabler?    you tell me.

             

            and as to what you can do now….you have 19 days to convince every Republican you can to vote for Gary Johnson…NOT Trump.

            • Voyageur says:

              I've never heard chb saying anything hateful of hillary or anyone else.  I think he will do the rational thing andd vote for her.  Gary johnson still doesn't understand that Atlas Shrugged is fiction.

              • Duke Cox says:

                I did not single out CHB. He/she chose to respond. I did not suggest that anyone who might otherwise vote for Hillary should vote for Gary Johnson. Don't get your panties in a wad.wink

            • BlueCat says:

              The problem is that Rs like CHB are a tiny, powerless minority in the 21st century GOP.

              • Duke Cox says:

                Roger that, BC;

                I should apologize to the few Rs', like chb, who have been opposed to Trump from the start and said so…but they are few…and they allowed themselves to be cowed within their own party. Chiefly, I believe, because ODS (Obama Derangement Syndrom) and CCH (Chronic Hillary Hating) made them drunk with anticipation…and now the GOP has to drink that purple ade or dump out the cup and walk away…

                But for their willing cessation of disbelief and their powerful hatreds, they could have stopped this train wreck. This not going to end well for the Party of Lincoln.

                 

                 

      • mamajama55 says:

        The sad thing is that these attitudes are "trickling down" to people too young to vote. The Trumpkins have learned that if you don't like a result, blame it on the referee, or declare that the opponent must have cheated. Threaten to beat up the fans and players of the opposing team. I wonder how this is going to go over with their football and basketball coaches.

         

        • BlueCat says:

          For positives read today's  Denver Post article about high school students  having civil discussions about this election in their civics class,  many (not all) of whom can't imagine how any adults can still support Trump. Yeah it's a Boulder civics class but there is also the high school  newspaper in Monument  with a nine student editorial board that endorsed HRC, braving the angry reaction of many parents.

          In both cases teachers maintained neutrality as facilitators. It is the students who are paying attention, caring very much about both character and issues, having respectful discussions and making their own decisions. Many of the students featured in this article are seniors and old enough to vote.  Their parents should be proud of them. As for the parents, not all are behaving nearly as well as their kids.

  6. JohnInDenver says:

    Trump opened the door for a new round of questions to EVERY GOP'er — will you accept the results of the election? will you oppose those who do not?

     

  7. Les Ismore says:

    He was beaten like a rented mule

  8. Arvadonian1 says:

    Let's be honest here, Trump refusing to say that he would accept the results of the election if he doesn't win is the next logical step in what the Republicans have been doing for the last 8 years, starting with the meeting McConnell hosted after Obama won where Republican leadership in congress made a pact to not work with him on anything, their implementation of "The Hastert Rule" in the House, and finally culminating with the inaction on the Supreme Court nomination of Merrick Garland. For any Republican to try to "clutch the pearls" and feign shock at Trump's response would be the height of hypocrisy.  He has simply continued this path to its obvious conclusion.  I wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't actually show up on 1/20/17 and try to push Hillary away from the Chief Justice to be sworn in.

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