Wednesday Open Thread

Wait till next year.     – every Cubs fan everywhere, ever.

73 Community Comments, Facebook Comments

  1. MADCO says:



     Congratulations to Senator Gardner, Representative and AG Coffman, Governor Hickinlooper, and all the winners and their supporters.

    Two observations, one local, one national.

    With all the R turnout up and down and sideways in Colorado, How in the world did Beauprez lose?   Footnote- so smart, so ideally D, howthehell did Wade Norris lose?


    All we need now is to put an R in the White House and everything goes sideways – Supreme Court, healthcare, Iran, Equal pay, minimum wage, personhood, etc, etc.

    And the Cubs still need pitching.




    • Old Time Dem says:

      So do the Rockies.

    • Davie says:

      An interesting, if depressing, article discussing that very point, MADCO.

      ​While I don't entirely agree with all the conclusions, it was very clear to me that the GOP strategy of voter suppression, and psywars to sour young Dem voters into apathy is quite successful:

      Eternally optimistic seekers of bipartisanship have clung to the hope that owning all of Congress, not merely half, will force Republicans to “show they can govern.” This hopeful bit of conventional wisdom rests on the premise that voters are even aware that the GOP is the party controlling Congress. In fact, only about 40 percent of the public even knows which party controls which chamber of Congress, which makes the notion that the Republicans would face a backlash for a lack of success fantastical.

      McConnell’s next play is perfectly clear. His interest lies in creating two more years of ugliness and gridlock. He does not want spectacular, high-profile failures that command public attention — no shutdowns, no impeachment. Instead, he wants tedious, enervating stalemate. McConnell needs to drain away any possibility of hope and excitement from government, so that the disengaged Democratic voters remain disengaged in 2016.


  2. exlurker19 says:

    Well, it ain't over til it's over and it's over.  I think the postmortem will show that the Latino community stayed home.  Lied to by both sides too many times.  Thank you, Lord, no Beauprez.

    Obama's going to have to sharpen the quills on his veto pen.

    • debbielynnepaint says:

      One of the analysts was going over the statistics and you are correct.  Pueblo latinos stayed home for the most part and Gardner was up 1 point there.  Shame on them.

  3. Diogenesdemar says:

    Lordy what an 'effed up night. Sucked so bad that my only highlight is Cynthia Coffman creaming Don Quick. My other consolation is that I will get to continue hating on Hick.

    Fuck Cory Gardner.

    I. guess I'll be listening to the MP3 instead of NPR or any local news for a good while . . .

    Kind of wish I could be drinking instead of heading off to work. I got the hang over with none of the fun.

  4. Diogenesdemar says:

    BTW, might be time to update The Big Line . . . ???

    • Andrew Carnegie says:

      I think they should keep it as is, as a testiment to Pols powers of prognostication.

      • DavidThi808 says:

        I think you mean wishful thinking. Anyways, I want to say I think you did a stellar job here keeping your cool 99% of the time in the face of vemonous hatred from many and an unwillingness to even consider you might be right in cases from most.

        And you continue to show class by not rubbing in the win. I can only imagine the comments here toward you if it had been a dem sweep.

        You did a really good job here.

        • Andrew Carnegie says:

          Thanks David.  You have been getting more than your share of negativity for being what I consider objective.  Largely, I think this was, as you called it, about competence or the lack thereof.

          • Wong21fr says:

            I wouldn't say it's about competence (this is politics after all), but anger that while everyone hears that the economy has improved and recovered, not a lot of people have felt it.  Wages have been stagnant for 20 years, which has a lot more to do with fundamental economic changes, and show no sign of improving.   The violent technological disruptions that will continue over the next couple of decades certainly aren't going to help either.

            The GOP could go into 2016 with a lot of support if they do two things a) cut taxes and b) deficit spend like it's 1984, it's the only way that supposed supply side economics has every worked.

            Congratulations on the victory, here's to hoping that the GOP can show it can govern effectively, though it looks as if Ted Cruz has other ideas, namely setting himself up for the 2016 Tea Party nomination.  

            • Andrew Carnegie says:

              W, Thanks.  I thought the narrative since the website issue was the Dems were the gang that couldn't shoot straight.  Every time it died down, there was a new, they can't even get this right issue, Isis, Ebola, etc.  Hard to paint a picture of a bright tomorrow, if today you are spending your time explaining away screw ups.  A lot of things make up an election, but that to me was a common thread.

              • Wong21fr says:

                Might be the narrative but the underlying motivation is that things just don't feel better to the average person.  Going into future elections that's a motivation that will persist and the narrative of competence is going to carry a lot more weight and the party in power is going to take even larger drubbings for not delivering. Ken Buck probably had the most clairvoyant comment when he said that the GOP has a two-year contract where they have to deliver competent governance or the GOP will be out on the steps again. 

                • DavidThi808 says:

                  I think you're both right. People are very bothered that the economy works for the 1% but doesn't for them. And that with an incompetent administration, Obama is incapable of addressing this giant problem.

                  FDR faced giant problems, but people believed he was competent and focused on fixing things. It's the combination that's deadly.

                • notaskinnycook says:

                  You've got it. Another two years of "let's see how obstructionist we can be and how little we can accomplish" and a lot of those elected last night will be out looking for a job.

                  • Diogenesdemar says:

                    Isn't that what we said about this year??  I don't know — to borrow an analyst analogy, seems to me if you're the team on offense (nationally that means you've got the White House; at a state level, the governorship), you're expected to score — doesn't matter that the assholes on the other team played a dirty defense. Guess who's still seen as being on offense?  I'm not sure that 2016 boxes that well. Those of the short-attention electorate will be feeling fatigue of a D-variety. 

          • Diogenesdemar says:

            AC, you are a chump. That's just DT's PA collective knee in the groin to the rest of us here — kick 'em while they're down . . . 

        • Canines says:

          I think Andrew clearly has knowledge of the political process and his pulse on the polls. As far as rubbing it in victory-wise, he only did that before the actual vote results were released. True, there were venomous comments directed towards him, but Andrew knows how to dish out as good as he gets–and even take things up a notch, if need be, into the realm of "he went there" territory. I understand what you're saying about blinders to objectivity, though, as far as people's reactions towards what he had to say.

      • PERA hopeful says:

        Well, good morning, Andrew.  I'm a little surprised to see you here; I thought your work was done.  I want to congratulate you on being right in most of your predictions.  It was frustrating to see so many people on here arguing that the polls were wrong.  A lot of Polsters sounded like Karl Rove on election day 2012.  I didn't see any reason for optimism, but I spent the final weekend knocking on doors anyway.  

        Now I hope the Republicans wake up and realize they have responsibility for their role in governing this great nation, and I hope they don't immediately start on some kind of scorched-earth anti-Obama agenda that will do nothing but draw vetoes and venom.  On the other hand, if Sen. Gardner co-sponsors the federal personhood bill in the Senate and Congress sets out to take away people's health insurance, I will enjoy saying "I told you so" for two years and knocking on doors for the Dems again in 2016.

        • Andrew Carnegie says:

          P,  I know you might find this hard to believe, but I am not employed to post here.  Like the rest of you I do it for fun.  Some days are more fun than others, but I have felt the pain you are experiencing too, so no reason to rub things in.  It will come back on me soon enough.

          Funny thing about polls, the current analysis, post-election, is that they over stated things for the Dems.  This is from 538:


  5. Diogenesdemar says:

    I watched some woman (Anna?) last night on CNN telling Anderson Cooper about how Charlie Crist had now lost three races, running for the same office (?) in three different parties . . . and how she was glad she had voted against him each time. . . . my only laugh of the night — very funny.  Also a good lesson in being who you really are, instead of trying to "message" yourself. 

    Beauprez [something] 2016! . . .

  6. Andrew Carnegie says:

    Any final results on the state legislature?

  7. JeffcoDemo says:

    Cheri Jahn up 31 votes is the only candy bar in the shitstorm that hit JeffCo last night, that and Andy keeping his seat.  So sad about Rachel, she lost to true evil.

    i still think they go after Ed big time after last night.  And he will win by another big margin in two years but will have to work hard after getting one cycle off.

  8. Robb says:

    Wow. Gardner didn't exactly run away with Jeffco, did he?

  9. James Dodd says:

    One positive note – Alan Grayson won. Shows what a real progressive who is unafraid to stand up can do.

  10. Samuel L. Clemens says:

    I'm very disappointed with last night's results; I have to wonder where the brains of the American public are!


    The hand has been dealt, but after taking a week or so to ponder, I'll get busy working toward 2016.

    But remember, Senator-elect Gardner and Congressman Tipton:

    You work for me!!!

    • JeffcoDemo says:

      "You work for me!!!"  Ain't that cute.  He only answers to the same masters of the universe he has for a long time now.  Only now he does so with hubris that he is one of the chosen ones.  He tried so hard to sound substantial last night, painful as it was to listen to.

      • Andrew Carnegie says:

        Speaking of masters of the universe, think your night sucked last night, try being Tom Steyer who dropped 70 million on last night.  Ouch.

      • Samuel L. Clemens says:

        Re: "You work for me!!!"

        It's 'cute' only if there's no follow-up to that statement.

        I have the local and D.C. phone numbers of Senators Bennet, Udall, Reid, Sanders and McConnell,  Representatives Pelosi, Hoyer, Perlmutter and 'Congressman' Tipton (among others) on my cell, and I've bookmarked their official and Facebook website so I can see what they're up to any time I want.

        I agree that Senator-elect Gardner 'answers to the same masters of the universe', but it's up to us to make sure that he does the job we want him to do.  If he listens to his 'masters' instead of us, it falls on us to make sure he's a one-term Senator.

  11. Progressicat says:

    I hate to say I told you so, but…

    Well, yeah.  Since the scourging will commence shortly anyway, why not begin now.  A note to Dems.  If Diana DeGette tells you that you ran a good campaign, you know you were a one-noter.

    If you want to get people to vote Democratic, you need to ask them for their vote.  You do that by expressing your vision for a better America.  You do that by telling them why it’s important to have government in their lives, and the good it can do.  You do that by telling women not just that you care about their right to decide when they have children, but how you’ll make sure that those children go on to have happy lives.  How you’ll make sure they’re fed, and get a good education, and live in an environment that’s safe.  How you’ll work to ensure that they get paid a decent wage, and a family of their own, and have support if their world crumbles underneath their feet.  How they’ll be taken care of in their dotage and be able to die in peace.

    It would have been nice to hear any of these things from Udall.  Hell, it would have been nice to hear about how Udall intended to enhance women’s choices around reproduction.  Instead it was all about what Gardner wanted to do, and a foot-stomping tantrum crying, “He’s lying!  He’s lying!  Why won’t you all say you can see he’s lying!”  He was lying.  And you were wasting precious time.

    It’s likely that the new Republican tactic in purple states will be to drop a candidate in late, so she doesn’t undergo the rightie crucible (and its attendant sound bites), and then have her deny everything controversial she’s ever done right on through the election.  Why wouldn’t they?  Seems to work pretty good.

    Either you have a vision or you don’t.  If you have one, but don’t express it, you don’t have one.  Stand up and say what you want out of this country and how you hope to make it happen.  Be for something.  In the end, it’s only you and the gender self-identified individual in the mirror.  If you’re going to go down, why not go down in a blaze of glory?  Don’t go out like a punk.  Don’t go out like Mark Uterus.

    • Craig says:

      I believe that I said this about four months ago.  Too bad those idiots at the Udall campaign didn't take my advice.  But, then, I'm only the former Republican Chairman of Jefferson County.  Why would they take my advice?  By the way, all the things that you wish Udalll had said?  Well he did actually say all those things in TV commercials.  But, alas, it was way too late.  People were turned off by exactly what you said.  The nonsense of stamping your feet about personhood, just silly and stupid.  Well, at least the Udall campaign provided one good lesson for Democrats.  When you run an obnoxious single-issue campaign that insults the intelligence of the public, you're going to lose the election, even if you're running on a pro-choice issue in one of the most pro-choice states in the union and even if you're one of the most bipartisan legislators left in the US Senate and even if you're one of the top five Senators serving.  The paper that shall not be named got it right.  They were angry, and they had the pulse of the voters.

      • itlduso says:

        We just rewarded Gardner and Coffman for being members of the worst Congress in history. I only recently heard that Gardner was one of the ten most conservative members of this Congress. I told Romanoff a long time ago to brand Coffman for voting to shut down the government and all the other horrible things this GOTP Congress has done. To no avail.
        Perhaps we deserve what we get. Perhaps the next time the Repugs want to default on the debt we shouldn’t bail them out and let the chips fall as they may. But even then we wouldn’t benefit politically unless we reminded voters of what the Repugs caused.
        Messaging. It includes tauting your accomplishments, promoting your ideas for the future, and tarring your opponent with their own record.
        I don’ t think we did any of those things.

    • mamajama55 says:

      Either you have a vision or you don’t.  If you have one, but don’t express it, you don’t have one.  Stand up and say what you want out of this country and how you hope to make it happen.  Be for something

      Preach on, Pcat. To the chorus. +50


    • MichaelBowman says:

      Well said, Pcat.  The Senator had a laundry list of accomplishments to tout; none of them made it mainstream.  As a progressive who considers myself 'pro-life' (not pro-birth) and also has zero interest in interfering with a woman's fundamental right – the one-note campaign made me cringe.  It was ours to lose, not Cory's to win.  So we sit here this morning watching the final numbers on the race shrink to a mere 58,000 – and face the fact that young, progressive adults couldn't invest 10 minutes and two stamps to contribute to democracy.

      We lost a good man on Tuesday night.  Watching FoxNews this morning with the parental units it doesn't appear that we're headed for a Congress that says 'Yes'; calls by Limpbaugh to further exasperate the President's agenda, eliminate ACA, etc.  <sigh>. 

      As the Greeley Tribune opined in it's endorsement of Senator-elect Gardner,

      "We’ll be interested to see which Cory Gardner we get as a senator."


  12. SixPointBull says:

    If you look at county vote totals, Udall did exactly what the usual Democrat playbook says to do: Roll up big enough D margins in Denver and Boulder to overwhelm big R margins in El Paso and Douglas, then run even in Jeffco, Arapahoe, and Larimer.

    Where Udall fell short was two areas: he ran even in what should be Dem strongholds of Adams and Pueblo, and he got destroyed in rural Colorado. He lost lunchbucket Dems — not the first Boulder Democrat to do so.

    This is why 1. Ken Salazar is such a potent statewide D candidate, 2. why the gun control debate is poison for Dems, 3. why the urbane carpetbagging Michael Bennet should be very nervous about his prospects in two years.

    In terms of messaging, I'd like to see exit polling on how Udall did with Latinos. There are many ways to attract Catholic voters, but pounding on the drum of abortion rights is not one.


    • BlueCat says:

      Great. Thanks for reminding me how weak Bennet's going to be in 2016. It will probably be a  good year for Dems in general but Bennet was lucky to have such a foot in mouth opponent the first time and could do even worse than Udall in 2016 regardless.

      Nope. Not going to think about it right now. Time for a little mental vacation.

    • Craig says:

      Bull, polls show that Catholic and Hispanic voters are both more pro-choice than the country as a whole.  The problem was that he only ran on choice and he refused to call Con-Man Cory what he is, the 16th most conservative member of the US House who voted 53 times to throw those of us with pre-existing conditions off our health plans, end Medicare as we know it, cut back social secuirty benefits, gut the EPA, and a whole host of other things that could fit in a damned 30 second commercial and that Udall refused to do.  All Udall campaign staff should leave Colorado forever.  Please do not return.  Go to the left coast which is the only liberal bastion left in the country (what's about Mass and Md??)

      • SixPointBull says:

        Ha. The "liberal bastions" of Mass and MD both just elected Republican governors. 

        Frustrating thing about Udall loss is that he kept a lot of bullets unused in his chamber (the health care, Social Security, and environment issues you mentioned.) 

        I'm thinking the piano in the Udall house sounds weird, because he must always be pounding the same key.

      • oobapooba says:

        Hispanic voters are probably 99.9 percent Catholic. 

        Unless I'm missing something, so are the illegal immigrants who terrify the Right so much. 

        The reason I left the Democratic Party (though I still vote for them) is precisely because of what you said. They seem unwilling to put up any sort of fight against candidates who have done, and will continue to do terrible damage to American citizens and to the country. All for the sake of a return to pre-Civil War "ideas". 

  13. nota33 says:

    Mark Udall was stupid to run a single issue campaign. He should have ran on other issues. Hopefully, Gardner will be thrown out of office in 2020, a presidential year with high turnout.

    • FrankUnderwood says:

      Hillary will be running for a second term then……..   smiley

    • MichaelBowman says:

      One of many great articles on the web today regarding Senator Udall's role as a leading voice in DC on civil liberties and his harsh criticism of the Administration's surveillance activities. 

      The CIA and NSA Should Be Happy That Mark Udall is Gone

      With Udall's departure, civil liberties organizations are losing one of their most critical allies on Capitol Hill. Udall has consistently broken with his own party leadership to criticize a number of the Obama administration's national security policies as well as the tactics of the White House’s leading spy agencies.

      Rather than toeing the party line on intelligence issues, Udall instead found a comfortable home in a bipartisan group of lawmakers — commonly called the “Checks and Balances” caucus — who fought civil liberties infringements and championed greater government transparency.

      "…with national security largely absent from the campaign, Udall had a difficult time defending himself against the charge that he has frequently voted with President "

      Udall played a key role in uncovering this year’s revelation that the CIA had spied on Congress, a feud that panel chair Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.) desperately wanted to keep under wraps.


      • mamajama55 says:

        He ran on his anti-spying stances late in the campaign, talked about  his anti-NSA work in Pueblo. It's not only that the campaign emphasized personhood too much in literature and ads – it's also that the right wing picked up on it and decided to make that the narrative about Mark Udall,("Mark Uterus") because, let's face it, it would have been tough for them to criticize him on the anti-NSA issue.

        Please, while everyone is piling on the Udall campaign here playing the blame game, don't lose sight of the fact that this race was targeted with millions of dollars and political strategists. The campaign was playing checkers in a chess game, though- the opposition was two moves ahead.

        Being a rational person myself, I thought that Mark Udall's rational stances would win voters to his cause – and they did, but not enough to overcome the propaganda.

        We have to find ways to appeal to the lizard brain, unfortunately, to the electorates fears and prejudices. Udall thought he was doing that with the "balanced budget – grand bargain" rhetoric, but truly, in spite of the rhetoric, the other side does not wnt a balanced budget or a grand bargain. The other side wants social justice issues to go away and everything to be predictable like it was in their youths, which they have now idealized as a time of peace and plenty.

        I think that visuals and stories are better at making people feel secure than facts and statistics. If the Udall campaign had promoted narratives of people grateful not to be spied on, stories of folks who wanted minimum wage that Gardner helped stall, immigrant valedictorians, and maybe one or two stories of women who needed birth control/abortion as an economic issue to keep their families afloat, the outcome might have been different.

        • Canines says:

          I really hope someone is taking notes–in the Democratic Party, and in whatever passes for a public-relations/media-advertising firm these days. They ought to go back and read Positioning: The Battle for Your Mind and Gerry Spence's book on presenting an argument, which matches what you're saying.

          Instead they let Cory Doody define himself.







          The new Senator from Colorado.

  14. Canines says:

    Now, when Cory Gardner gets to D.C., he's going to make sure his name is listed on the federal personhood bill in a 48-point bold-type Helvetica font.

  15. Canines says:

    Clearly, Governor Hickenlooper has been given a mandate with his victory: He can act even more like a Republican, now.

  16. Canines says:

    Marijuana legalization wins in Oregon, Alaska, and Washington, D.C. (How will Congress derail the latter, let me count the ways…)

    Medical marijuana loses in Florida, where initiatives need 60% to win. It came up short: 58% yes to 42% just say no. Ironically, 58% is even higher than medical marijuana won by in California in 1996 or in Colorado in 2000.

  17. oobapooba says:

    My prediction: absolutely nothing will happen in Congress. Obama can veto any legislation designed to turn the U.S. into a third-world country. ​

    • FrankUnderwood says:

      I'd like to watch Yertle and Boner try rounding up the 2/3 majority they'll need for an override vote.  Probably will be difficult to do!  <G>

      Maybe they can dust off their lawsuit they got authority to file past year and run with that. Now the Senate can join in.

  18. FrankUnderwood says:

    One area where they can give Obama problems is on confirmation hearings.  I think between now and Jan. 1st, everyone who is thinking of leaving should leave, and Harry Reid needs to get all the new people on board by getting them confirmed before the end of the year.

    None else quits, gets indicted or dies before 1/20/17.

  19. notaskinnycook says:

    Spot on Frank. I'm looking at you, Madame Justice Ginsberg. I don't see her making it through another two years and it worries me greatly.

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