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June 13, 2014 06:35 AM UTC

Friday Open Thread

  • 52 Comments
  • by: Colorado Pols

"No man has a good enough memory to be a successful liar."

–Abraham Lincoln

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52 thoughts on “Friday Open Thread”

    2. We had it won? Oh brother. The only thing military that McCain is an expert on is enduring with courage as a POW. He wasn't even a very good pilot or officer of note. He's a has been and why anybody takes his bloviating seriously anymore is a mystery.

      Looks like Iraq is going to break up just the way not so crazy Joe Biden envisioned it and I really don't see why we should restart the war to try to fix that. Don't see what good out remaining in Afghanistan does either. The Taliban has never conducted terrorist operations against Americans on American soil so any threat released Taliban could possibly represent to Americans can be solved by getting Americans the hell out of the Taliban's territory. The rest is the Afghans' business now.

      The Iraqi government screwed this up by refusing to allow any Sunni participation so, naturally, the Sunni's are rebelling.  We can't make the Iraqi government stop being corrupt and stupid. As for the Kurd's, no way they're going to give up their de facto independence.  

      Should have listened to "crazy" Joe in the first place. We don't need Iraqi Oil. If the Europeans do let them go fight for it. Or let the Iraqi government hire the same mercenaries we used. Maybe Iran will spot their fellow Shia the cash.

      Nuts to McCain and all the other lets you and him fight warmongers.

    2. I spent a good deal of time yesterday in the company of Abel Tapia and his companion ( Dr. Henry Roman- candidate for the state school board) on their trip to the hinterlands. Both very bright and articulate.

      Abel has a very good chance of upsetting the incumbent in CD-3. He will have a very difficult time winning Mesa County, though you can tell he has given some thought to the redness of Happy Valley and was very attentive to the comments and suggestions given to him by the locals who were there.

      note…I am not related to David Cox, the other candidate for CD3.

      2. Yet the Daily Sentinel chose to cover Marcia Neal criticizing Barbara Smith for wearing shorts.

        You couldn't be a "high information" voter in Mesa County if you wanted to be.

        1. Never seen a town work so hard, and against its own best interests, to maintain that backwater "we're a small town!" image.  Progess, even in a purely financial sense, seems to scare the bejezus out of them. 

  3. Crazy Joe, Feb 2010:

    I am very optimistic about — about Iraq. I mean, this could be one of the great achievements of this administration.

    You’re going to see 90,000 American troops come marching home by the end of the summer. You’re going to see a stable government in Iraq that is actually moving toward a representative government.

    I spent — I’ve been there 17 times now. I go about every two months — three months. I know every one of the major players in all of the segments of that society.

    It’s impressed me. I’ve been impressed how they have been deciding to use the political process rather than guns to settle their differences.

  4. Time for fish barrel shooting!  

    http://www.foxnews.com/story/2004/06/29/us-makes-early-handover-iraq/ 

    Both President Bush and British Prime Minister Tony Blair were informed of the decision on Monday while in Turkey for a NATO (search) summit.

    "This is a day of great hope for Iraqis and a day that terrorist enemies hoped never to see," Bush later said in an address with Blair. "The terrorists are doing all they can to stop the rise of a free Iraq but their bombs and attacks have not prevented Iraqi sovereignty and they will not prevent Iraqi democracy.

    "Iraqi sovereignty is a tribute to the will of Iraqi people and the courage of Iraqi leaders."

    …

    Bush: 'We Kept Our Word'

    Saying the turnover is a "proud, moral achievement" for the U.S.-led coalition, Bush said, "we pledged to end a dangerous regime to free the oppressed and restore sovereignty — we have kept our word."

    Saying foreign terrorists and former regime loyalists will not halt progress in Iraq, the president said "the struggle is first and foremost an Iraqi struggle."

    But "the civilized world will not be frightened or intimated and Iraq's new leaders have made their position clear."

    Bush marked the transfer with a whispered comment and a handshake with Blair, his closest ally in the war, as they gathered with world leaders.

    Stealing a glance at his watch to make sure the transfer had occurred, Bush put his hand over his mouth to guard his remarks, leaned toward Blair and then reached out to shake hands. Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld, a row behind the president, beamed.

    Bush was passed a note from National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice that put it this way: "Mr. President, Iraq is sovereign." Bush wrote "Let freedom reign!" on the note and passed it back.

    1. But the decision to leave Iraq by that date was not actually taken by President Obama — it was taken by President George W. Bush, and by the Iraqi government. 

      In one of his final acts in office, President Bush in December of 2008 had signed a Status of Forces Agreement (SOFA) with the Iraqi government that set the clock ticking on ending the war he’d launched in March of 2003. 

      http://world.time.com/2011/10/21/iraq-not-obama-called-time-on-the-u-s-troop-presence/

       

      You can believe whater the F you want troll but your sheer vapidity is on display for all to see.  You are a lying idiot.  

       

            2. And if you click on one of the links in that article you get to another article covering Biden in the 2008 primaries that includes this:

              Mr. Biden has been seeking to differentiate himself from the other candidates on his strategy for ending the war and bringing stability to Iraq. His plan calls for partitioning the country into autonomous regions (one each for Shiites, Sunnis and Kurds) and keeping a residual force of about 20,000 American troops in Iraq.

              Looks like all these years, billions and buckets of blood later, that's where Iraq is headed after all. And if you want to present quotes you have to use quotes and a source. I know you're used to base righties who will accept as gospel anything their crazy uncle forwards them without bothering with factual back up but, for the most part, you're not addressing your usual moron audience here on this blog.

              And if you think restarting another major war without a draft is a great idea you might be interested to know that during the height of the Iraq War 2 out 10 recruits needed waivers to make the cut, including those with serious felony level criminal records and others with mental health red flags all over the place, like Bergdahl. You must know by now he was cut from the Coast Guard because of mental health issues but he was good enough to become a soldier headed for Afghanistan.  Not exactly the best, most motivated and brightest we were all told the all volunteer army was supposed to be. Not to meet the quotas needed for two long wars.

              Our soldiers don't want to go back. Are you going to go or send a child of yours to go for them? And if they do go back do you think the same thing won't happen again when they leave again?  Or do you think we have to be there forever because GW and friends were idiots? Do you think an all volunteer army is going to be able to do that forever? What happens when we've scraped the very bottom of the barrel and nobody else wants to go? Will all you rightie chickenhawks volunteer? Under John McCain's command?

            3. A bit more on Biden's take way back when:

              Recent events in Iraq call attention to his prediction nearly a decade ago that the war-torn nation was heading towards a break-up along sectarian lines — and to a prescription he offered to try to manage that reality by granting Sunnis, Shia and Kurds greater autonomy over various parts of the country.

              (Also on POLITICO: GOP senators call for Iraq air strikes)

              In other words: while Biden may have taken a beating repeatedly in recent years for some foreign policy calls he’s made, his judgment on Iraq’s capacity to stay one country now looks almost prescient.

              “Some will say moving toward strong regionalism would ignite sectarian cleansing. But that’s exactly what is going on already, in ever-bigger waves,” Biden wrote in a 2006 New York Times op-ed he co-authored. “Others will argue that it would lead to partition. But a breakup is already under way. As it was in Bosnia, a strong federal system is a viable means to prevent both perils in Iraq.”

              http://www.politico.com/story/2014/06/joe-biden-iraq-107858.html?hp=t1

               

               

  5. Who is the ultimate winner in the Iraq War?  Would you guess China? 

    Put simply, then, China won the battle by choosing not to fight it. But this isn't quite the whole story. In addition to avoiding the grave costs of the war, China capitalized by offering developing countries an attractive alternative to the United States: ideologically-blind economic engagement. And, as a result, Beijing was able to expand its "soft power" at the expense of an increasingly unpopular Washington.

        1. Here: Die Tageszeitung ran the famous "Mission Accomplished" picture of George W. Bush, but replaced Bush with Shaker Wahib, head of ISIS, the militant group currently running roughshod through Iraq. 

          newspaper iraq

  7. Facts are so important. To look at the disaster in Iraq, start at the beginning.Sadam invaded Kuwait, in 1991.  It is not clear if he somehow got the impression that his then ally, Bush I's Washington, would not object.  When Sadam refused to leave Kuwait, the US assembled a mighty army…..on the sacred soil of the Arabian pennisula, with the approval of our Saudi allies….except for Bin Lauden, who was outraged and wanted American soldiers off the sacred soil of Saudi Arabia.  

    After Gult War I, the US kept troops in Saudi Arabia, as they had for years.

    Bin Lauden wanted them out.  The first attack on the World Trade Center came in 1993. Attacks on American Army barracks in Saudi Arabia followed in 1996.  After 9/11, Bush II quietly removed the US troops from Saudi Arabia.

    By the end of 2002, they were all gone.  I don't know if one of the rationales for that incrediblly immoral and illegal invasion of Iraq was to establish  bases for large numbers of American troops.  I do know that any one with an once of sense would have known that the invasion plan of stringing trucks (!) with very little  defense protection along a 300 mile stretch to Bagdad would have been suicidal if Sadam had actually had weapons.   That battle plan alone demonstrated that Bush 2, etc. knew damm well that Sadam was virtually defenseless.

    I had thought that waiting for the results of the June 23rd primary and the SCOTUS decision on Hobby Lobby would be a relatively calm political time.

    Wrong again.  Two predicitions.

    1) Hillary will not run for President.  The Middle East in flames happened on her watch.

    2) Tancredo will get the Republican nomination for governor.  He will not beat HIckenlooper.  But, the voter turnout of his passionate supporters will be enough to propel Gardner into office.

    1. If you are going to factor in all the people Tanc is going to turn on, you also have to factor in all the people he is going to turn off, and there will be many.

      1. @horseshit GOP

        I made two predictions.  Time will tell if I am right or wrong. not you or whatshername.  That is what happens with predictions. 

          1. Thank you for taking me seriously.  I really don't have 100 bucks to bet – I "bet" both of us have better use for the money.  But just think of your gloating rights if I turn out to be wrong…..

            2. Actually Dwyer, I think your thought that Hillary may sit it out has a lot of merit.  She will be stepping into a shitstorm and she knows it, and I am sure she is thinking about the toll that will take on her and her family. 

              I am sure her looking at how nasty they are to Obama plays into her decision making as well.  We will see.

              As for Cory Gardner, the guy is just so completely phony you can see it a mile away.  The more people know him, the more they dislike him.  His stone age positions don't help either.  That flys in CD-4 but statewide I just don't think so, and look at how Udall handled Schaffer the last go round.

              We shall see.  Cheers.

              1. I wouldn't be surprised either way, whether HRC decides to go for it or not. Personally, just because the time between now and 2016 is eons in political time and in memory of  how all the pundits had 2008 called as a done deal for an HRC/Giuliani race a lot closer in then we are now to 2016, I'm leaning toward HRC not  being the Dem presidential candidate in 2016.

                It wouldn't surprise me if intervening events,political and/or personal, change the political landscape radically between now and then.  Heck, it wouldn't surprise me if something happened that radically changed the political landscape between now and when early general election voting starts this year. I will be very surprised if Udall doesn't win but predicting 2016 with much confidence at this point seems a fool's errand.

    2. Actually we can back further and look at the cration of an artifical state (Iraq) by western mapmakers, and a US-propped up strongman (Saddam) to keep it under control.  

      Two Predictions-Hillary will run for president, hopefully she will have primary competition.

      Gardner will go down in defeat, Tancredo will get the GOP bid and bring fire and brimstone down on his coat-tails.  

      1. Actually we can back further and look at the cration of an artifical state (Iraq) by western mapmakers, and a US-propped up strongman (Saddam) to keep it under control.

        This..+100

        The current fighting is a reflection of age-old tribal hatreds and alliances. All the U.S. dollars in the world don't matter….this is Allah we're talking about here. This is a matter for Saudi Arabia, Turkey, and Iran to work out.

        I recommend "the Great War for Civilisation" by Robert Fisk.

         

    3. Tripping as usual.

      1) Foreign policy is an extraodinarliy rare driver of the electorate, unless we're at war or threatened.  A bunch of Muslims killing one another over ancient hatreds and Bush's destabilization hardly reflects on Hillary and doesn't lend itself to simple bumper stickers, particualry when  the oposition you imagine will deter her are war weary or are isolationist fiscal hawks.

      2) You think Tanc's name on top of the ballot will motivate anyone who wasn't otherwise already motivated?  Look who showed up to defeat Cantor in his low-turnout primary.  The crazed Obama haters.  They hold sway when no-one else votes.  What makes you think this will be a low turnout election?  Too many big races, plus Personhood III will turnout the opponents of GOP Theocracy, of which Gardner is a flip-flopping standard bearer.  Elections are won in the middle, and Tancredo and Personhood's extremism will stick to Gardner and drag him down.

        1. @ct

          You are right about going back in history.  I was just looking at recent US political decisions and their modern consequences; specifically, US policy since the collapse of the Soviet Union and decisions by administrations that many of us had the opportunity to vote for.

          Predictions are everybody's game.  Welcome to the field.

           

      2. @ the "doctor"

        I just reread what I originally wrote.  I could see that someone reading it might think the misspellings and typos were due to "tripping." Ojala.

        Unfortunately, they are due to an retina disease called macular degeneration…of which I only, now, have a mild case….but it does kick in sometimes and makes it difficult to see when I directly focus on a word…

        I do apologize for the inconvenience….

        1. I was not commenting on your mis-spellings and typos.  I was commenting on your poor prognostication, and backed my opinions with fact-based reasoning.  Do you have any substantive reply to those or do you prefer to wallow in your self-imposed perceived victimhood?

            1. Are you here to debate political points on their merits or are you here to act morally superior to those who don't bow down in agreement with your pearls of wisdom?

        2. You always have some sort of poor me excuse, don't you? Those of us who find your analyses less than persuasive are just meanies who don't understand all of your many health problems and disabilities. Poor you. Awful us. Rinse. Repeat. Saves you the trouble of addressing, you know, fact backed points.

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