Weekend Open Thread

“He has a right to criticize, who has a heart to help.”

–Abraham Lincoln

38 Community Comments, Facebook Comments

  1. Powerful Pear says:

    There is no reason, I repeat, no reason to believe that unauthorized secret documents held by Joe Biden have been compromised! We know Joe takes classified documents seriously. Furthermore the documents were in a locked garage protected by Lawn Boy & Husqvarna. The same group used by Hunter for cyber security.

    • The real problems with Trump's document scandal have not been about document security – though that is an issue this country obviously needs some work on. The Trump situation is that Trump obstructed return of the documents he had, multiple times and in multiple ways; we still don't know if the government has them all, because we don't know if Trump moved anything to his other properties. Also, it's obvious that Trump had personal knowledge and posession of at least some of the documents — they were loose in his personal desk drawer, unpacked.

      Obviously moving out of the (Vice-)Presidency carries some risk of losing control of documents. Quite obviously in Trump's case, that control was lost in the middle of his term. Some new set of procedures is apparently necessary. But of the two, only Trump appears to be guilty of consciously holding on to classified government property.

      • Negev says:

        I am more concerned that Joe was unaware he was in possession of top secret documents pertaining to Ukraine and China when they are sitting in his garage. That's gross negligence, especially when we are 1)funding a war in Ukraine and 2) potentially going to war with China. Seems odd these docs coincidentally overlap with questionable family ties to both countries, yet he had no idea he had them. For six years. In his garage. Visible on Jay Lenos TV show. At the place China paid to build. That he made $1m on. 

        Sounds totally legit to me. He is you know the most popular president, ever. 


        • There was a good CNN article on how this likely happened. The short version is: Biden was doing whirlwind diplomacy right up to the day before he left office. Classified documents were coming and going to provide him briefs on upcoming meetings, Joe was coming and going (mostly going), and staffers were packing boxes around this circus. Some documents were mishandled.  There's a strong chance that this is why some of Trump's documents were packed, too; it's not as though he was eager to pack up and leave. Clearly our document handling procedures aren't up to the task of checking the outgoing occupants out of office.

          But there the similarities end. Biden's documents were discovered by his own team and reported; further documents were discovered in a search initiated by Biden's team after the first batch was found. All were reported immediately. None apparently were missed by NARA or whatever staff in the VP's office tracked classified documents. Trump's documents were noted by NARA — probably because some of them were well-known. Trump and his team refused to turn the documents over. At one point, a false or misleading affidavit was signed indicating that all documents were turned over. Still missing documents eventually led to the FBI search warrant. During that search, some documents were found unpacked and in Trump's desk drawer, where he personally almost certainly put them. Documents are still suspected of being held by Trump, and we don't know the extent of the searches performed by his team — which only happened after all of these events. The Special Counsel's office is so unsure of the quality of these searches that they're trying to subpoena the investigation team.

        • As to contents, Ukraine was among the last countries Biden had diplomatic contact with. Iran was the subject of some of his contacts, too. The article didn't mention the UK by name, but there certainly was diplomacy happening with the UK at that time. (Brexit and the Northern Ireland situation would have been on his mind…)

        • Washopingmylastpostwouldbemylast says:

          I am far, far more concerned about those folks who are just now so concerned about these issues, but were, and remain, nearly universally completely unconcerned about TFG’s far more extensive, far more intentioned, and far more concerted acts to misappropriate, retain, hide, mislead, dissemble, and obfuscate.

          • Conserv. Head Banger says:

            Pear and Negev didn't give a rat's rear end about Trump's classified document issues.

            • Negev says:

              In all fairness I don't give a rats ass about Bidens classified document issues either. These guys ran the freakin country of course they have classified documents, and know far more classified information in their head than any document would retain. I think a sweep of .gov would uncover troves of mishandled documents…

              ….but if "TFG" gets the gallows for it, same for "FJB". The "crime" is possession of classified documents. Not intentioned, concerted, acts to misappropriate, retain, hide, mislead, dissemble, and obfuscate documents, but possession of classified documents, which it appears both are guilty of. Hang them. Let them go. Whatever. Equal justice.

              But ask a cop how many times the person driving did not know there were drugs in the car. Or how many bank robbers get off by giving the money back. Joe got popped and ignorance and cooperation works well for him as a defense. 




          • Duke Cox says:

            The GOP is trying desperately to use the "Johnny does it too" defense. 

            Equivocation is the stock and trade of the army of apologists that feed on Republican wrongdoing. The outrageous lengths to which modern conservatives try to get the American people to believe that both parties are equally corrupt and biased are legendary…none more ridiculous than this.

            The only commonality here is that both cases involve a president and classified  documents. There, the similarities end.

            • Negev says:

              It is that single commonality that constitutes the crime, which, legally, is the only similarity that matters. We all know how this pans out: they both walk scot-free….

              • Duke Cox says:

                Joe Biden is the President of the United States….today. He may have all the top secret documents he wants…anywhere he wants them. It is not a crime for a president to have such documents…an ex- president? I wouldn't be so sure.

                • Negev says:

                  Joe was in possession of illegally held classified documents as a civilian and was not even an ex president at the time…

                  …hell go back a cycle where a candidate held, stored and transmitted classified docs and walked…


  2. Powerful Pear says:

    OMG, more classified documents found at Biden’s house. Poor Joe, set up by his own kooks to look foolish and scuttle his run for a second term. I hope he doesn’t resign and leave us with what’s her name.

    • notaskinnycook says:

      It would serve you right if that happened, Pear. As I said Thursday, there's a world of difference in the way the two Presidents have handled the documents issue, and you know it. Biden told them to keep looking, while Trump is throwing himself in front of doors, screaming "There's nothing in here!".

  3. Dano says:

    Yes there is a world of difference, but even so the Biden administration is not handling this very well.

    We now know the initial documents were found before the election, but that was held in confidence until after the election so as to not influence the vote. (okay, whatever).

    But Biden's people should have used that silent time to immediately searched all other places to determine if there were any more. They obviously did not do that as we are just find more now, 3 months later. Had they found everything outstanding before the initial batch was made public, then everything would out in the open all at once, and this would be over except as a far-right talking point.

    • Lauren Boebert is a Worthless POS says:

      “We now know the initial documents were found before the election, but that was held in confidence until after the election so as to not influence the vote. (okay, whatever)”

      At least our side learned one thing after 2016, when someone thought it would be a good idea to reopen the issue of Hillary’s emails 10 days before the election.

      BTW, it was reported in today’s NY Times that numerous Republicans knew about George Santos’ big fibs before the election last November yet remained silent so as not to influence the vote.

      I agree, Dano, that it could and should have been handled better.

  4. Powerful Pear says:

    KOOK Colorado state legislators willfully try to destroy Democracy and the Constitution with unlawful anti gun rules. 


    • spaceman2021 says:

      You should actually study the Constitution, which means reading case law interpreting it.  But that would be too much effort and might not give you the confirmation you seek

    • JohnInDenver says:

       I'll fall for it …. can you explain how the story has much of anything to do with Colorado state legislators?

      … predicting the action will "destroy Democracy and the Constitution" … Can you explain how requiring registration of one category of weapons and limiting ammunition holders that hold more than "x" number of bullets will be more dangerous than the existing regulation on fully automatic weapons ("machine guns").  How about the outright bans of "rocket launchers, also known as bazookas," and similar "destructive devices?"  Why would registration of the guns impacted by this law be any more of a threat than the registration and taxation of howitzers?

      • Negev says:

        I think the difference is "in common use" as opposed to "unusual" settled in United States v. Miller:

        Miller’s holding that the sorts of weapons protected are those “in common use at the time” finds support in the historical tradition of prohibiting the carrying of dangerous and unusual weapons.


    • Genghis says:


      That's just what public officialdom needed – another gaggle of dipshits suckling at the public teat while providing nothing but wingnut performance art in return. Disgraceful.

  5. Powerful Pear says:

    Document R Us,  Call Biden Inc.

  6. DavidThi808 says:

    Good law with some bad consequences – Improving Investor Behavior: Colorado now requires retirement savings plans. Are businesses ready?

    So at Windward we brought in a 401K program early on, did the maximum match, and had it set up, through Paychex I think, to offer everyone a selection of 11 or so index funds with a minimal charge (which I think we had the company cover).

    All good right? No.

    Once we hit a certain number of employees there was a requirement that we provide the employees financial advice from a disinterested party and there were all kinds of requirements around it. Bottom line, we needed to have a company that knew all the requirements for this do it.

    So we switched to Principal and they came in with a couple of index funds and a bunch of managed funds. And the managed funds all had fees of 1% – 3%. A total rip-off as managed funds do worse than indexed funds. But hey, there were a couple of indexed funds. They had fees, lower fees, but still fees.

    And… as an executive of the company, I was not allowed to give any advice to the employees. So we required the employees, as required by law, to sit and listen to the pitch from the Principal "advisors" who talked up the managed funds. And I could not even provide a counterpoint.

    In my opinion this whole setup, that is replicated across every company in America providing 401K plans, is a means to siphon off 3% of everyone's retirement funds to a bunch of advisors who provide crappy annual returns. So good idea, but in practice, theirs a ton of money being skimmed off the top.

    At Windward – good ending to the story. One of the employees came to me about the new plan really upset over the managed funds and everyone being pointed to them. I explained to him why I, as an executive of the company, couldn't say anything. But that he, as I encouraged every employee in every meeting, was welcome to ask any questions of the advisors and to state his opinion.

    By the end of the meeting the Principal people walked out quite discouraged – I think maybe 2 employees were talked into managed funds.

    • Conserv. Head Banger says:

      Depends on which company is offering the managed funds. My retirement IRAs are with the Vanguard Windsor and Wellesley managed funds, respectively. I've done very well with those choices.

      • DavidThi808 says:

        Sounds like your company set it up well. And truth be told, I had someone that this was all new to investigating what was going on and what we had to do. So it's quite possible that she wasn't aware of a better option.

        I do think it's a racket the way it's done in most companies. It was the same at Microsoft where they gave us a list of funds and the "advisors" available tried to steer you to the managed funds.

        • Conserv. Head Banger says:

          Thanks for the compliment. But it wasn't a company; I retired from the state some years ago. I rolled my PERA into Vanguard IRAs on my own and have always managed my own stuff.

          I've certainly made mistakes; like being too heavy on O & G during the 2014 energy bust. But, thankfully, I've made a few more good decisions than bad.

  7. DavidThi808 says:

    On the whole Biden having classified documents, and unclassified documents that the archives should have – two thoughts.

    First, yes it's a world of difference with Trump where Trump actively took documents, hid them, and fought to keep them.

    Second, there is no excuse for having taken these documents. So things were busy and hectic in the final days of the administration. That does not excuse Top Secret documents being thrown in whatever box.

    Clearly there's no good process/system presently in place for the President & Vice President. And the ultimate responsibility rests with the President & Vice President. So yes, Joe Biden bears responsibility for totally inept handling of government secrets.

  8. Dano says:

    This has nothing to do with Colorado, or even the US for that matter, but I am still having no end of fun laughing at the politicians involved.

    The last King of Greece died last week. Before I continue, let me point out he was a close relative to most of the other remaining royal families in Europe (his sister married the King of Spain, his wife was the sister of the Queen of Denmark, he was a 1st cousin to Prince Philip of the UK, etc.). 

    Upon his death, the Prime Minster of Greece, a rather timid man, constantly afraid his own shadow might try to overthrow him (well, OK, it is Greece – that could happen), announced the King would be buried as a private citizen, with no state funeral, and no foreign dignitaries. Only his wife, children, grandchildren, and siblings would be allowed at the funeral, which is tomorrow. The only governmental person attending the service would be the Minister of Culture.

    That lasted about 24 hours, maybe a little less. Half a dozen Heads of State (who all happened to be kings or queens) from across Europe advised the Greek government they were coming for a visit on what happened to be the day of the funeral. Each and every one of these countries had contributed to bailing out Greece from a horrible financial crisis a few years ago, and they intended to tour some of the areas that the Greek government was supposed to be using those funds for. Among them were the facility where the funeral was to be held (it's a public building, I forget the name at the moment) and the Tatoi royal estate where the burial will take place.

    Yesterday, the Greek government issued a statement that foreign dignitaries will be welcome to attend the late King's funeral and all standard diplomatic and security measures for visiting dignitaries will be observed. Oh, and now the Deputy Prime Minister is attending the funeral.

    And you thought royal families no longer had power!

Leave a Reply

Comment from your Facebook account

You may comment with your Colorado Pols account above (click here to register), or via Facebook below.