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November 21, 2022 10:59 PM UTC

Tuesday Open Thread

  • by: Colorado Pols

“We make up horrors to help us cope with the real ones.”

–Stephen King


60 thoughts on “Tuesday Open Thread

  1. Stochastic Terrorism from Josh Marshall at TPM

    If you aren't condemning the problem… And then you have "christians" and "conservatives" actively whipping up the hatred as a political strategy.

    The attack is a product of what is sometimes called “stochastic terrorism.” Mass incitement causes individuals to act out with violence. It is cause and effect. But precisely who will act out in this way, when and where is impossible to know. In one definition stochastic terrorism is “to incite random actors to carry out violent or terrorist acts that are statistically predictable but individually unpredictable.”

    The attack comes amidst a broadening moral panic on the right about transgender people which has triggered an intensification of demonization and incitement against LGBT people generally. Over the course of the pandemic years, advocacy for the rights and acceptance of transgender people and non-normative gender expressions generally has been repackaged on the right as a form of pedophilia or sexual exploitation. When you hear the word “grooming” on the right today that is what they are talking about. It has blended into the earlier “Pizzagate” conspiracy theories about Democrats running hidden pedophilia rings with sinister globalist powers.

      1. Yer doin' the deevil's work.

        The MAGA, Steve Bannon and Russian strategy is to cause dissension and strife by exaggerating differences between right and left. So they fund both extreme right and left with the goal of amping up the conflict.

        Chill and focus, bro!

        1. The MAGA, Steve Bannon and Russian strategy is to cause dissension and strife by exaggerating differences between right and left. So they fund both extreme right and left with the goal of amping up the conflict.

          Citation, PH? It's interesting, but I don't know of any instances of Bannon, Miller, et al actually funding left wing propaganda recently.

          They did in 2016- all the crap about "weak, senile Hillary" was ostensibly sent by liberals and leftists. But I haven't seen anything similar lately. Have you?

      2. Unable to respond to your verbal attack on the Monday thread because my phone is uncooperative, let me do so here.

        Thank you for demonstrating to all here the nature and breadth of your emotional problem. Don't put it off. Seek professional help.

        Then…grow up.

          1. If you bothered to read Duke's post, he said that his phone was being uncooperative. Your response to his is not in my thread hierarchy.

            The CP board system has some "quirks" when viewed on a phone in normal mobile mode. One is that deeply embedded responses are pretty much unreadable. Another is that the visual editor is very hard to bring up in mobile responsive mode – it fails to initialize, and you can't actually post responses unless you're both persistent and lucky. Viewing the site using "desktop" rendering resolves both issues and others.

            Your "productiveness" in responding sets off both major limitations of the mobile version of the site. (Which makes those of us reading on phones doubly irritated.)

      3. The biggest bigot, by far, on this board is ageist/racist/sexist flim flam.  The three isms attack people for things they can’t control their race, their age, their gender.  Flim Flam, whose only avowed virtue was his chosen date of birrth, viciously attacks Duke, moi, anyone over 50, with the most vicious stereotypes and brags about it.

        He is a foul bigot who dreams only of having sex with ducks.

        But they just swim away from him.

    1. When does a conspiracy theory just become a conspiracy? Does the Epstein pedophilia and Maxwell sex trafficking of a minor conviction lend any credence to the said conspiracy “theory”? I think the only variable in question is Democrats, which should rightly be amended to “politicians/elites”, but legally speaking has this theory not been proven fact?

            1. I would consider Trump a politician/elite and fair game. If it brings him down too, so be it. I will be the first to shun wing nut conspiracies, but in this case it appears the tin foil hatters were right.

              1. Sorry, but what? 

                Epstein pleaded guilty to charges in a sweetheart deal in Florida in 2006 — when the state AND federal prosecutors were led by Republican appointees. Specifically, the deal was "signed by US attorney Alexander Acosta, who would later become secretary of labor under President Trump."  

                Epstein was arrested in July 2019 after a joint investigation by the FBI (headed by a Republican) and NY state authorities (headed by a Democrat), He committed suicide (or not) after being charged and before trial, so he was not convicted.

                Maxwell was charged in 2020 and convicted in 2021 by prosecutors of the Southern District of New York … led by the Deputy US Attorney elevated to be US Attorney when Trump fired her predecessor and kept in office by the new Biden Administration.

                The tin foil folks had little or nothing to do with the prosecutions.

                1. I did not say they had anything to do with the prosecution. the OP indicated conspiracy "theories" about hidden pedophilia rings – which has, based on prosecutions/convictions, proven a conspiracy, sans theory.  

      1. Flim flam is not a grandpa.

        Or a pa.

        He has no wife to love him.

        Has never felt the butterfly kiss of his child.

        Has never felt the wonder of the creation of life.  

        Or the repetition of that miracle for another generation.

        He will die unnoticed, unloved, uncared for.

        His only fond memory being 20 minutes in a glory hole.


            1. You’re the one who shrieked “game on”

              Crybaby, then launched your usual ageist /racist hate speech against “grandma” and Grandpa” using every ageist trope you know. Not one person supported you and you attacked every one in turn.  Yeah, everyone is out of step but troll boy.

              Troll boy the druggie warrior.  Alone against the world.  

              If you weren’t so stupid, I’d feel sorry for you.

              And what is this thing you have about ducks?

      2. If you’re coming after grandparents, you can include me, a proud grandma. I’ve been an activist for 55 years, marching and protesting before you were a twinkle in your mama’s eye.

        Your attacks are just tedious, tim-tam. Stop already.

        1. Maybe the problem is you are a self-styled "progressive younger voice on the forum that isn't even directed" ….

          Perhaps if you had a clear goal you wished to pursue….

          1. Golly, it seems like everyone here hates you and nobody loves you.  That's the way your life goes, isn't it trolly boy?  Every body is out of step but you.

            no wonder you abuse drugs.

    2. You reap what you sow.

      Many pastors say Christians are more loyal to their political party than to the faith: survey

      Something drastic happened in our nation right around 2008, 2009, 2010 that sparked a downward trend that has not yet reversed,” Kimberlin said. Although she stressed that “we cannot say for sure what sparked this downward trend,” she suggested “a couple of things that happened in our nation right around that time” might have played a role in the decrease in church attendance.

      1. Church attendance has been in decline (proportionally) for years.  Roman Catholics started arguing about it after Vatican II in the 1960s.  Mainline Protestants began worrying about it in the mid-70s.  White Evangelical Protestants began seeing it in the mid-90s. 

        There was a clear decline in overall numbers in the time frame mentioned — 2008-ish.  There's been another stairstep down with COVID.

      1. You obviously don't understand this forum. First, it's not public. It is a privately run board. And as you note it is lightly moderated – as in, it is mostly moderated in the same way old-style Internet boards used by us old farts (who were around when Colorado Pols first incarnated): by telling newcomers with thin skins to stop reacting to every breath of wind as though it were a fatal injury, and if they won't shut up then to tell them it's time to stuff it.

        You can, in fact, be banned from posting here. It has happened. Don't flood every post every day with the SSDD, or you might find out.

        1. You'll come back until the admins decide you really need to be banned. Don't be an ass about it, and they'll decide you're worth continuing to allow on to the system.

          In general, that's the rule on any "open" system: don't be an ass.

          1. It's satisfying to be added to the ageist crowd; I was afraid I was being left out. Seriously, I don't care what age you are. I don't care what sexual identity you have, or what race you claim. I don't care if you are a conservative or a progressive, provided you're fair-minded about it. If you're truly new here and not a troll from the past, I'm usually the cool-headed one (not always, but usually); if you've earned the time it takes for me to make a rebuke (or ten), you might want to listen.

            You won't likely get much out of the admins on the matter. Your persecution complex has already made you into the young person who cried wolf. Were someone truly cruel to come along and actually abuse you, you'd have to work your way past your own abusive reputation. Please, grow a thicker skin, stop trolling these boards for (and with) cheap insults, and be a participating forum member.

            1. What I'm trying to say is, you've made a multi-day commotion about persecution, when 90+ percent of the responses against you are just telling you to step back a bit and take a breather.

              But you're not. You're crying persecution at every response. Do that forever and no-one will listen to you when you're actually being persecuted. And you know damned well (or should) what the actual moral of the story is supposed to be.

              I missed the original dialogue that got you involved – I often read on my phone, and deeply embedded responses reduce to single-character vertical blobs which I ignore. Doubly so if they take up 30+ responses-  flame wars are best survived by wearing plasma-proof underwear. So, I come in to a relatively fresh day's conversation and what do I get? More of the same, with YOUR post starting off the grief war. Two days running. And you've managed to include just about everyone on the board other than the conservative trollers who've been largely silent post-election and are surely just laughing their asses off at how you're spamming the daily thread in to oblivion DAY AFTER DAY.

              So, take this in a "wise advice given bluntly" way. Shut up. Sit down. Take a deep breath…. And then, after a bit, come back and take part in reasonable conversation. Know what this board actually is: a political wonk's board. It has members who are MAGA-heavy, fiscal conservatives, social conservatives, 3rd way Democrats, progressives, and radical leftists. It has people who are deeply active in climate change issues, in gender bias issues, in rural involvement, and in political strategy. We have been and are in roles ranging from corporate CEO to computer security expert to front-page journalist to current and former party official to front-line activist. This is a place to share what you know, and to learn from people with experiences that are both different from and similar to your own.

              You will not be winning moral wars here – political wonks have largely been through all of that, and old ones for twice as long. If that's your cause (really, your Quixotic quest), the best you will ever be here is reviled even by those who support every moral outrage you're feeling – which you'd find is a vast majority of the posters here, if you took the time. So I'm asking you to be an interactive rather than performative member of this little microcosm of society.


          2. You have no idea who I am. You have no idea who most of the people here are. You have no idea what we have done, or what we are doing. NONE.

            If you wanted to come on and generate the feeling of being persecuted because you're somehow "woke" and we aren't, well, congratulations. You're now a legend in your own mind.

            You know WHY I don't have to go back and read the original thread days and days ago? Because the problem is TODAY, and it's YESTERDAY, and it will likely be TOMORROW. It's a continuing attack that goes on only because you keep making accusatory posts, in great volume, and on new diaries. Your continued caterwauling is detrimental to the site's usability, and your accusations are wild and based on the slimmest of pretenses. You threaten to continue to haunt the board until you're satisfied, like the most persistent stalker or troll not to be contented until the board is slandered and destroyed if it doesn't bow to your wishes.

            1. You want me to stop telling you why you're getting negative responses, sure. I'm only telling you what you have been writing, in words that don't sound as high and mighty.

              As you noted earlier, this is a forum with minimal moderation, populated by a mix of people some of whom have been here since The Early Days Of Dead Governors. First, you are misreading ill intent into much of what has been posted toward you. But second, you are not going to be the righteous avenger that will change the direction of ANY forum of long-standing. I don't know if that's literally Rule #1 of social media discussions, but it's in the Top 10. It predates the Web; Hell, it predates the coalescing of the Internet. Take it from an old fart: religions and countries have tried and failed.

              There will always be views which are contrary to yours here. Some of them might be abhorrent. Make a response, understand that both the original post and your response might be either unintentionally or maliciously mis-interpreted by other posters, and move on after at most a few posts. Which is what I'm going to do; I've said all I can say. Nothing more will change your actions or your feelings over the whole matter. Perhaps an admin response will, but considering the posts we have seen on here for ages, I would prep yourself for at most a diary reminding us all to be more civil. (Posts and then diaries of this nature used to happen every 6 months to a year it seemed, not always posted by the Dead Guvs; I'm pretty sure I wrote a few of them.)

  2. Change, Change, Chaaange. (Is that a song?)

    Orange County just flipped to the Democrats for the first time since the 1970s.

    Political definitions that were once so permanent are castles made of sand. With the Republicans doubling down on MAGA and Trump, Governor Death Sentence (not to mention anti-Abortion and anti-Gay) Democrats shifted the odds greatly in their favor in 2022. Demographic change continues (dead anti-vaxxers, and young women becoming politically engaged.

    We'll turn CO-03 blue in two years.

    1. ….and in Arizona: 

      Final vote tally shows Democrats flipping Arizona attorney general's post, though recount awaits

      If Mayes' victory stands up, she'll help make history in another way, too. Axios' Jeremy Duda notes that this will be the first time since 1978 that Arizona Democrats have simultaneously held the offices of governor, secretary of state, and attorney general. This year, all three positions were open, and since the governorship and the attorney general’s post were held by Republicans, Democratic victories in both of those races represent red-to-blue flips.


    2. Registration data from 11-01-2020 3rd District to 11-01-2022 3rd District shows the more likely outcome. [obviously, reapportionment makes direct comparison harder to discern.]

      Democrats — down about 20,000 active voter registrations and over 3% in share, at 23.56%

      Republicans — down almost 15,000 active voter registrations and over 2% in share, at 30.65%

      Unaffiliated — up about 18,000 active voter registrations and up a shade over 5% in share, at 43.95%.

      Two more years of opt-out Unaffiliated registrations, building disgust from the infighting among Republicans, and more people registering for the Presidential primaries and general election — I’d bet on 50% Unaffiliated registration, Boebert losing by 4%, and the district narrowly going to a Republican Presidential candidate (unless it is Trump – he’d lose).

      District won’t be blue — but it will be anti-MAGA.


      1. I don't see how you can divine any information from registration data in Colorado.
        I am "unaffiliated" because that means that I get to choose which party's primary to participate in.
        It has zero to do with how I will vote in the general.
        I will never vote for a GOPer in the general even if the opposing candidate is a …

        1. People affiliate or don't for a wide variety of reasons.  Then, they vote for different candidates (or not) for a variety of reasons.   I happen to think indications of voting tend to relate to previous registrations and voting —

          Your mileage may vary.


  3. There were about 7000 regular Pols readers last time I checked, so yeah. Definitely some under 40. Both the main owners of the blog , Ian Silverii and Jason Bane, are 40ish, I think.

    As far as regular commenters, it's probably fair to say that most are over 50, white, and male. Although if their avatar is gender-neutral, no one will know. Along with gender, most don't reveal their ethnicity or race.


          1. No. Like most of us, he scrolls past your stuff as quickly as possible. That's getting more difficult, as you have 30 freaking posts today alone, mostly complaining about how people are mean to you, while you dish out increasingly vile attacks that you take no responsibility for.

            Pols, can we ban Tim Spam again? Or put him and Voyageur in their own isolated room together?

            1. Not all older people are boomers now. Young people become older, generations slide up the age scale. When some of us granthers started on this site we were in our 30s or younger. Time passes.

              What hasn't changed in the 35 years I've been on the Internet (and its predecessors) is that some people – young and old, left and right, bigot and rights crusader – are drains on the system. They spend forever churning out posts, making the stream about them; they are, for lack of a better term, drama queens. Some of them change, some of them don't. The ones that don't are eventually blocked away, routed into oblivion – usually with an unhealthy dose of abuse along the way. You aren't the first to start out like this, you won't be the last.

    1. However, there are posters on her I recognize from the early days of Pols. That means many of the regulars were a different age demographic when they started on here (myself included). I personally would have been early 40s then. (at least according to my driver's license, my physical age feels substantially higher.)

      1. That explains the utter lack of self awareness in how you are demeaning and oppressing younger voices.

        This is not limited to boomers. But there a lot of boomers.

  4. I see American Constitution Party (lol) candidate Danielle Neuschwanger, of "Jared Polis is a woman-beating closet het" fame, scored 21,623 votes in the gubernatorial election. That's substantially more votes than the Unity Party candidate, but substantially less than the Lolbertarian. Maybe threatening Kristy Burton Brown with prison over imaginary vote fraud at the GOP state assembly might not have been the best idea of all time.

    1. They did not have a candidate for Gov. in 2018, but Neuschwanger's total is less than half of the SoS candidate's total in 2018. So definitely not a good showing.

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