Tuesday Open Thread

“A powerful idea communicates some of its strength to him who challenges it.”

–Marcel Proust

46 Community Comments, Facebook Comments

  1. Voyageur says:

    Last man posting gets a blind date with Lauren Boebert.

  2. Gilpin Guy says:

    Pols should stop posting about Gahanl and start covering Polis.  He is the politician with the clout as opposed to this lout.  I know policy and success isn't sexy but it is important.  What bills currently in the legislature is he supporting and why?  Exposing Heidi for being a dolt is old news now.  Let's work on something fresh like the Number 1 political story in Colorado in 2021.

    • Conserv. Head Banger says:

      "start covering Polis……"

      Three bills were introduced in the State Senate on March 21, on behalf of the Department of Natural Resources (DNR). It can be assumed these bills are part of Governor Polis' agenda.

      (if passed) One will extend indefinitely the life of the non-game wildlife check-off on the state income tax return. The second transfers the state portion of the Search & Rescue process from Dept. of Local Affairs to Parks & Wildlife, with added benefits for those willing volunteers who put their lives on the line in the backcountry.

      The third bill will disallow any attempt to obtain the location of sensitive species habitat, animal or plant, through CORA requests (Colorado Open Records Act). 

  3. ParkHill says:

    Ian Milhiser at Vox is the best legal journalist out there: "Clarence Thomas’s long fight against fair and democratic elections"

    But here’s the thing: Yes, Thomas’s vote in this case, Trump v. Thompson, may have been an underhanded effort to protect his own wife. But his vote in Trump was entirely consistent with his record in cases where his spouse does not have a personal interest.

    In more than three decades on the Supreme Court, Thomas has consistently voted to make it harder for many Americans to have their vote count; to erode institutions, like a free press, that are essential to democracy; and to dismantle nearly a century’s worth of democratically enacted laws on spurious constitutional grounds. Thomas’s opposition to democracy is not rooted in nepotism. It appears to be quite principled.

  4. allyncooper says:

    Today is Vietnam War Veterans Day, aka The American War.

    Approximately 2,700,000 American men and women served in Vietnam. There are 58,318 names of American servicemen and women on the Wall honoring those who gave the supreme sacrifice, including a cousin of mine.

    Regarded by most historians as the United States' worst foreign policy disaster, those who came home were not treated with parades and adulation  but oftentimes with contempt and hostility, a bitter consequence of the divisiveness which had torn apart the nation.

    A "tragic mistake" said anti-war Senator George McGovern, himself a decorated WWII veteran. I have never met a Vietnam War veteran who didn't express the same sentiment about the war.

    Devoid of the honor these veterans should have received, we can belatedly honor them by learning from that "tragic mistake" and resolve that it not be repeated. And with this determination, their service and sacrifice shall not have been in vain.



    • Voyageur says:

      It's pretty much in vain.   I felt fury when McNamara admitted he sent us to fight a war we couldn't win.

      But isolationism isn't the answer either.  All aid to Ukraine short of war.  Each conflict is unique and our response must be also.

      • allyncooper says:

        Isolationism definitively ended on December 7, 1941. The accusations that Trump was an “isolationist” were ridiculous. Trump simply called for a reassessment of those “entangling alliances” some old guy warned us about and that participants in those alliances should be paying their appropriate share.

        So we are left with the concept of intervention to what justification  and purpose. Authority for the escalation in Vietnam was based on the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution, the naval action by the North Vietnamese we now know was largely fabricated.

        The invasion of Iraq was predicated and authorized  largely on the existence of “weapons of mass destruction” which never existed.

        And Putin has justified his invasion of Ukraine partly on the claim Ukraine must be “denazified”, which is laughable.

        But as always the truth is the first casualty of war. 

        Dirty Harry said “a man’s got to know his limitations”. That applies to someone holding a .44 magnum in his hand as well as a powerful nation possessing nuclear weapons.

        Mr. Putin is finding that out.

        • JohnInDenver says:

          Well, actually … it was a great deal more than "Trump simply called for a reassessment of those “entangling alliances” some old guy warned us about"

          Trump fundamentally misunderstood "NATO dues" and wanted other countries to pay us.

          Trump actively pulled us out of a variety of international relationships and threatened others — without any "reassessment" on the part of anyone outside the Sad!-ministration.  Most egregious — pulling out of the agreement with Iran & other nations, ASSUMING there would be other negotiations to follow. 

          His approach had consequences … https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2021/06/10/americas-image-abroad-rebounds-with-transition-from-trump-to-biden/   Thankfully, there appears to be a willingness for foreigners to grant the US of A a bit of grace.


      • MattC says:

        Why the line?
        Or- please define what you mean by "war?"

        This has more domino potential than a lot of situations where I believe the US was correct to deploy and use force.




    • kwtree says:

      As a Vietnam war protester who later married a Vietnam vet, I feel it’s important to honor the basic patriotic intent of soldiers of that era: to protect democracy, protect their country, its people, and their fellow soldiers.

      That they were lied to, (“You’re Fighting communism “ and shamefully used ( “keeping access to Asian markets and bauxite resources) doesn’t change that patriotic intent. Even those who only tried to survive a bad situation still sacrificed for somebody’s patriotic ideals. As they say, “Our cause was just”. 

      • Voyageur says:

        It wasn't just.  It was a mistake.   And even most of us who enlisted, as I did, would not have served without a draft.

      • Conserv. Head Banger says:

        Was the cause “just?” Suggest looking for Stanley Karnow’s Vietnam, a History,” which was a companion to a PBS series in the early 1980s.

        Also worth noting that the US ran guns to Ho Chi Minh and the Viet Minh during 1943-45. 

        “The enemy of my enemy can be my friend.” 

        • allyncooper says:

          And in declaring Vietnamese independence in September 1945 Ho Chi Minh quoted from the American Declaration of Independence. He expected (or at least hoped) the United States would support the Vietnamese in throwing off the yoke of French colonialism.

          Didn't happen, and the die was cast for a failed US foreign  policy with disastrous results.

  5. DavidThi808 says:

    So the tide seems to be turning in Ukraine with Russia retreating in places. But I don't think this shows a route to victory, more steps towards a stabilized front line. Ukraine can stop Russia. But they don't have a large enough army, nor domination of the air, which would be required to push Russia out.

    And so… two things need to happen. First, Western support needs to look at support for the next 2 years. That will mean continuing to supply what they're supplying. But it also means training the Ukrainians on more advanced weaponry and then send those weapons in.

    Second, and more critical, the West needs to work to continue a very tight sanctions regime on Russia for years. Part of this is the willpower to continue. Part of it is finding holes in the sanctions and blocking them. And a critical part is a crash plan of building up alternative energy sources.

    • Negev says:

      How bout quit the NATO expansionism, stop overthrowing legitimate governments (Maidan revolution anyone) refrain from installing corrupt puppets and providing them with proxy weapons? 

      When you gonna learn? Iraq. Libya. Somalia.Syia. Afghanistan. Which one of these was a win, and how much better off are the people with our "support"?




      • Voyageur says:

        You seem to only like Putin and his lap dog Trump, Negev.  I am very proud to have served in the Army that, despite our leaders missteps in Vietnam and Iraq, won the Cold War and freed Eastern Europe.  Your Munich  -style groveling before tyrants has a 100 percent record of failure!

        • Negev says:

          If Russia came to the front door of a NATO country like we have done to a Warsaw Pact country we would do the same thing as him. We were gonna nuke Russia for attempting this in Cuba. Now we bang at the door of the former capital of Russia and expect the welcome mat?

          Who's the tyrant?

          We have bombed more countries into the stone age spreading democracy that most locals would welcome a dictator if he got the toilet to flush.  Our involvement in this will only lead to more death and destruction of the civillians of Ukraine, and enrich the corrupt leaders. And we will pull out, just like every other time, when the political cost at home gets too high. I commend you V on your service, it's those pesky missteps that I detest. 

          Biden needs to ring up that land line Kennedy established and cut the escalation bullshit. I have spent my entire life with Russia as the great enemy superpower and these bitches can't take a neigboring puppet government that recruits soldiers from Reddit? This whole thing stinks. 

          Zelensky has $1.2 billion U.S. dollars and a $35 million dollar mansion in Miami when the median income anually is $8,640 for the Ukrainian citizen.  Where'd he get that? Lets send them another $15 billion and see what happens.


      • Diogenesdemar says:

        Monday morning quarterbacks : Tuesday morning generals   ::   peas : carrots

      • Conserv. Head Banger says:

        Ahh, Negev. Are you saying that small nations; the three Baltic States, Georgia, Moldova quickly come to mind; or Ukraine or Poland; should not have any right to determine their own futures?

        Or is it necessary, in your mind, that people must grovel before Vladimir Putin? I recall Trump did a pretty good job of groveling before Putin at the summit meeting press conference in Helsinki in June, 2018.

        The five countries you mention; the primitive middle eastern countries; are hard to justify. And Biden bungled the Afghan withdrawal. But Trump already gave the country away in May, 2020, when he signed the agreement that gave the Taliban everything they wanted.

        • Negev says:

          Banger these countries have every and all right to determine thier own futures, and need not grovel to Putin, or Biden, or Trump, or any other nation for that matter in the self determination of thier nation.

          The fact Biden bungled, or Trump gave the country away are both equally imperialistic – the country was not thiers to bungle or give away in the first place, and they are left worse off then before we came. 

          How is that nation building? It's not. 

          We have demanded every country I noted to grovel before us, to bow to our political ideology, or be destroyed. We have destroyed them all. Don't be suprised when the other "superpower" does the same thing. It is in the best interest of thier "national security" and if they learned it anywhere, it was from us. 

          • JohnInDenver says:

            I'm getting confused, Negev.  You say that countries have a right to determine their own futures — but apparently, they do not have the opportunity to determine their own alliances because of a Russian perception of a NATO threat?   They have a right to determine their own futures, but need to acquiesce to a larger neighbor invading and taking away portions of their territory? 


            • Negev says:

              Every country wants to join NATO – Ukraine and Zelensky himself knows this is not going to happen. 

              Ukraine can determine its own future. If joining NATO is in thier best intrest, have at it.  But Russia can determine its future too. If the smaller neighbor poses more of a threat as a member of NATO than occupied territory, what is in Russias best interest?  They seem to be figuring that out right now. 





              • Conserv. Head Banger says:

                "we have destroyed them all……" Seems like the Europeans handled Libya. The Russians propped up butcher Assad in Syria. I will agree that invading Iraq was a mistake.

                Somalia is a different story. We weren't there long. And now, there is a fairly peaceful entity within Somalia, and with a more or less functioning government. I refer to the northern part, the former British Somaliland. 

      • DavidThi808 says:

        Negev, you’re right that we should not have forced countries to join NATO at the point of a gun!

        Oh wait…

        Every country in NATO asked to join. The Eastern European ones begged. The U.S. is far from perfect but NATO and helping Ukraine defend itself are good & beneficial acts – for all involved.

        The purpose of NATO is to keep the Russians out, the Americans in, and the Germans down. — Lord Hastings Ismay, first Secretary General of NATO

  6. Voyageur says:

    Sanctions should end when Russia withdraws to the status quo ante.  Let the Crimea, Donbas, etc go to international arbitration.  And pass a marshall plan for Ukraine.


  7. DavidThi808 says:

    Monopoly, supply chain fragility, & inflation are all tightly integrated problems.

    The good news is the supply chain issue is being addressed. Companies are spending the money to have sources that are geographically distributed from multiple suppliers. Congress has legislation both for taking control of shipping and bringing semiconductor fabs back to the U.S. It'll take time and can always be improved, but it's on a good pace for improvement.

    Monopolies are being restrained from additional acquisitions. But we still have way too many monopolies in the vast majority of industries. To me the example of how widespread this is is the cheerleading monopoly.

    Yes break up big tech. But they also need to break up Disney, Monsanto, beef packers, and so many many more. This will be a horrendously hard war that will require dozens of battles one at a time against company after company.

    What this needs is some brilliant workable idea to accomplish this widescale quickly.

  8. MichaelBowman says:

    Me thinks wee little Madison is tripping on something of his own. What these morons will do to grab a headline, although one could imagine this scenario with Matt Gaetz.

    Congress Would Like to Know More About Madison Cawthorn’s ‘Cocaine’ ‘Orgies’ Claim

    House Republicans are pissed about Rep. Madison Cawthorn’s claim that he’s seen lawmakers do coke and been asked to partake in orgies since he came to D.C.

    Cawthorn, a 26-year-old freshman Republican lawmaker from North Carolina who identifies with the far-right of the party and recently drew criticism from Republican leadership for calling Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy a “thug,” said during a podcast interview last week that he’d seen “people that are leading on the movement to try and remove addiction in our country” do a “key bump” of cocaine in front of him.

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