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January 19, 2022 06:41 AM UTC

Wednesday Open Thread

  • 37 Comments
  • by: Colorado Pols

“For many of the world’s conflicts, it is difficult even to conjure up a feasible settlement.”

–Noam Chomsky

Comments

37 thoughts on “Wednesday Open Thread

      1. Truly, today's Senate has made a joke of itself. If I were Schumer I would just not have the Senate meet more than maybe one day per month. What they're doing now, under the actual rule of the GOP, is meaningless crap.

  1. Covid death comparisons by red vs blue counties in Colorado:

    This is answering a question Negev asked yesterday, about what I would consider to be a blue pro-vax county.

    I used 2020 population statistics from the Census Bureau. This includes children, even though  all adults were eligible for vaccinations in 2021, but 12 -15 year olds only since September 2021. I used COVID statistics from the CDPHE, counting only deaths attributed to COVID to date. 

    Blue counties:

    Boulder 330,000 population,  542 deaths*. 542/330,000 = .00164

    Denver: 715,522 people, 1083 deaths*, 1083/715522= .00015 .0015

    Jeffco 582,910 people, 1131 deaths* 1131/582910 = .002

    Red counties

    Weld

    328,981 people 504 deaths* 504/328981= .0015

    Mesa

    155,703 people , 585 deaths*, 585/155703= .0037

    Douglas p> 357,978 people, 457 deaths *457/357978= .00013 .0013

    * Not all COVID deaths were counted – Colorado changed to reporting only deaths where COVID was listed as cause of death, even though some COVID patients died of pneumonia, heart failure, etc. I remember some reporting that certain coroners avoided listing COVID as C o D , but can’t find that now. DougCo was one that supposedly fudged the numbers.

    So you can see that Mesa is in trouble, Weld is about the same as Boulder and but much worse than Denver, and Jeffco’s are high compared to all but Mesa.

     

    1. Is there a point I’m supposed to care about? It is what it is. It’s a virus, we are all going to get it. Mask, vax, social distance, It’s a VIRUS, many more variants to come, it’s a VIRUS.

          1. Consider them (literally and figuratively) the unvaccinated, unwittingly playing the role of mutant. What started out (pre-Koch) as some reasonable ideas underpinning the Tea Party, now five mutations later a gaggle of cult followers of a thrice-married, six-times-bankrupt, grifting, washed up reality tv show host who is now staring down the barrel of indictments for systemic fraud in his business dealings. 
             

            The good news is there is a vaccine : free and fair elections.

            Oh, wait…

          1. Yup, I goofed. I threw in an extra decimal place on Denver and Dougco- as happens when multitasking, and transferring numbers from screen to screen, but I should have double checked. Dougco should be .00127, rounded up to .0013, and Denver should be .0015. 
            Thanks for catching it and not being an @-hole about it.

      1. Sorry to disagree, PP, and I know this is the internet where one should believe nothing of what you hear and only half of what you see……..

        “We are all going to get it…..” “Knock on wood,” but I have yet to catch COVID. I’m fully vaxxed, including flu shots beginning in 2019; at least cover my mouth indoors with a mask; and occasionally still practice social distancing. 

        I think an outdoor oriented lifestyle helps a lot. Obviously, that’s not available to everyone due to location or conditioning level. My conditioning isn’t the greatest as I’m still in recovery right now from knee replacement surgery in mid-November. But one should be aggressive in taking advantage of the opportunities that arise.

      2. Yes, you should care ( but probably don’t) that public health measures ( shutdowns, masking, mandates etc) in places like Denver kept at least twice as many people from dying as places like Mesa that did not.

        We had many significant outbreaks in Jeffco, as well, but now have the virus under control to the point where most students are back in school in-person, and public sports and restaurants are open with COVID protocols. Mesa’s are still increasing to the point that it’s the leading cause of adult death now. 
         

        Hospitalizations may tell another story, but I can only do one deep data dive a day. 

        1. It’s not that I don’t care about COVID. I simply don’t care about analysis that that compare/contrast/blame one demographic against another.

          In Boulder county 329,458 did not die from COVID. People are tired of attempts to scare people into giving up their human rights.

          1. I'm going to blame the willingly unvaccinated for assisting the virus's transmission and evolution.  You don't have a human right to infect me, PP.  

          2. "blame one demographic against another"..

            Did I read that right? Surely, you di'nt.

            What about the Southern border, Ace?

            That should be enough, but I can add more, if you like.

          3. “[Stupid] people, [and people who don’t give a shit about anyone else] are tired of attempts to scare people [any factual or reality-based information] into giving up their human rights [doing what is smart, and what is right].”

            FIFY, Pfruity-Wooty!

            PS — we understand your concern for your fellow snowflakes, that this pandemic occasionally makes them feel bad for not doing what they should and could to help reduce its harm.

          4. Powerful Pear says:

            January 19, 2022 at 9:27 AM MST

            It’s not that I don’t care about COVID. I simply don’t care about about doing anything to mitigate the spread of the virus.

            In Boulder county 329,458 did not die from COVID. I am tired of attempts to curb the spread of the virus when they impinge on my personal sense of entitlement.

            FIFY

      3. A more elaborate analysis of the red/blue divide has been done by Charles Gaba:  he writes up his observations each week, and the most recent is here.

        Powerful Pear, far be it from me to suggest what you should care about. I do appreciate your willingness to urge “mask, vax, social distance.”   Far too many of those on the right not only don’t agree to urge those sensible steps, they actively discourage or prevent people from those sensible steps. 

        The good news from my perspective:  even if we all “get the virus,” the difference in outcomes is startling (to me).  CDPHE stats now show hospitalizations at 3.9 versus 46.2 per 100,000 in the week of 12/19. And 54.8 versus 704.7 deaths per million in the month of November.  We all may get it, but the burden on families, hospitals and coroners is more than 1 to 12 on those choosing not to vaccinate.  I know which side I want to be on.

    2. Thanks for this. I have one little and one big gripe.

      (1) If you express the number in deaths per thousand, then PP wouldn't get lost trying to count all the zeros after the decimal point.

      (2) Differential death rates by age are extremely significant, so using percent of total population covers up one of the keys to understanding how serious Covid is. I know you are trying to make a good point, and it would be much harder to get the data by age.

      Back in 2020, Colorado was presenting the data by age groupings. If I recall, it was on the order of a factor of ten every decade of years. 80-90 was ten times 70-80, which was ten time 60-70, and so on.

      That makes it all the more bizarre why Republicans have chosen to unleash the scourge on older people who are more likely to be their own supporters. 

      1. I did try comparing age data as you suggested- one problem is that many county public health agencies don’t disaggregate covid deaths by age. Mesa, for example, with ~ 20% 65 seniors,  does do that, but Boulder with only 14% does not.

        I haven’t looked at the New York Times or Johns Hopkins sites, but the Gaba site J i D pointed to is very interesting. One of his findings was that in Colorado at least, Biden voters were slightly more likely than Trump voters to die of COVID. There are, of course, many more Biden than Trump voters in Colorado, which probably helps to explain that.

        One thing is indisputable- vaccinations save lives and have made re-opening society safer.

    3. Would be interesting to compute for more red and blue Colorado counties.

      Here's red Fremont County:  167 deaths (per the County's website), 48,939 (per the Census Bureau) = .0034

      1. Taken from:

        Coronavirus in the U.S.: Latest Map and Case Count
        https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/us/covid-cases.html?referringSource=articleShare

        Sorry the chart doesn't copy well.  This is all Covid deaths to date per 100,000 ranked in order from worst to best (or best to worst, if you're a member of the GOPer death cult).

        The first number under the county's name is the total number of deaths; the second number is the per 100,000 figure.

         

         

        Colorado

        10,879

        189

         

        Bent ›

        45

        807

         

        Otero ›

        118

        646

         

        Conejos ›

        48

        585

         

        Washington ›

        26

        530

         

        Cheyenne ›

        9

        492

         

        Logan ›

        100

        446

         

        Crowley ›

        27

        445

         

        Morgan ›

        128

        440

         

        Pueblo ›

        700

        416

         

        Huerfano ›

        28

        406

         

        Delta ›

        124

        398

         

        Kit Carson ›

        28

        395

         

        Moffat ›

        50

        376

         

        Prowers ›

        45

        370

         

        Rio Grande ›

        41

        364

         

        Costilla ›

        14

        360

         

        Alamosa ›

        58

        357

         

        Phillips ›

        15

        352

         

        Montrose ›

        150

        351

         

        Fremont ›

        164

        343

         

        Custer ›

        16

        316

         

        Mesa ›

        483

        313

         

        Sedgwick ›

        7

        311

         

        Dolores ›

        6

        292

         

        Kiowa ›

        4

        284

         

        Las Animas ›

        35

        241

         

        Montezuma ›

        59

        225

         

        Baca ›

        8

        223

         

        Adams ›

        1,147

        222

         

        Yuma ›

        22

        220

         

        Teller ›

        55

        217

         

        Rio Blanco ›

        13

        206

         

        El Paso ›

        1,459

        203

         

        Jefferson ›

        1,146

        197

         

        Chaffee ›

        39

        192

         

        Weld ›

        613

        189

         

        Arapahoe ›

        1,120

        171

         

        Lincoln ›

        9

        158

         

        Denver ›

        1,127

        155

         

        Saguache ›

        10

        147

         

        Broomfield ›

        100

        142

         

        Garfield ›

        80

        133

         

        Mineral ›

        1

        130

         

        Grand ›

        20

        127

         

        Ouray ›

        6

        121

         

        La Plata ›

        68

        121

         

        Larimer ›

        416

        117

         

        Elbert ›

        31

        116

         

        Douglas ›

        385

        110

         

        Boulder ›

        339

        104

         

        Clear Creek ›

        10

        103

         

        Routt ›

        24

        94

         

        Park ›

        17

        90

         

        San Miguel ›

        7

        86

         

        Gunnison ›

        13

        74

         

        Archuleta ›

        9

        64

         

        Gilpin ›

        4

        64

         

        Eagle ›

        33

        60

         

        Summit ›

        12

        39

         

        Pitkin ›

        6

        34

         

        Lake ›

        2

        25

         

        Hinsdale ›

        0

         

        Jackson ›

        0

         

        San Juan ›

        0

         

    4. Thank you mama for the comparison. Park Hill made a good observation below about all those zeros and I looked up the decimal to percentage conversion, which results as follows as a death rate as percentage of population:

      Boulder .164%
      Denver .15%
      Jeffco .20%

      Weld .15%
      Mesa .37%
      Douglas .13%

      Average Blue counties is .17% Average Red counties .21% for a difference of .04% 

      Is that math right? Are we talking about hundredths of 1 percent difference?

    5. Not to trouble you mamma but your Denver county math is off:

      1083/715522 = .0015, not .00015

      Same with Douglas 457/357978 = .0013

      Sorry I see you saw my response to Mr Bowman above, don’t know how this gets so far down after hitting reply!

  2. From Josh Marshall at TPM: Donald Trump calls on Republicans to commit election as well as voter fraud:

    “We have more people than they do, but they know politics and they know cheating,” he said to cheers. “I sometimes say, ‘Well, would the Republicans ever do what they did?’”

    Then comes a classic Trump ‘Sir’ story from his aides.

    From Roll Call …

    The response from his aides, Trump said, is “‘Sir … we’re proud Americans, you know they won’t do it. They won’t do it.’” The former president then encouraged Republicans to tinker with elections to ensure their candidates win: “I say if it’s good for [Democrats], why aren’t the Republicans doing the same kind of thing with the ballots? You know, the [mail-in] ballots they used COVID as another method of cheating.”

    On one level this isn’t surprising. False charges of cheating and fraud have always served as a permissioning device to allow either cheating on behalf of the accusers or simply disenfranchising those falsely accused of cheating.

    1. Thats a great article JiD which shows the human side of the coal industry up in Craig.  I hope the workers and town are able to transition and end up OK. The only constant is change…

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