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October 16, 2011 06:21 PM UTC

Big Crowds And A Few Stupid People

  • 41 Comments
  • by: Colorado Pols

9NEWS reports the good and the bad from yesterday’s Occupy Denver protest march:

Denver Police said they cleared the protestors off Broadway about 6:30 p.m. after the protestors refused to move out of the street. Police say there was at least one instance where pepper spray was used to subdue protestors.

Crowds swelled around noon Saturday, and reporters on the scene estimated between 2,000 and 3,000 people participated in the march.

About 8 p.m., the crowds moved to 16th Street Mall. The crowds forced RTD to shut down service along 16th Street for over an hour…

“We still want to do all we can to protect individuals rights to free speech,” [Denver Mayor Michael] Hancock said. “But we are not going to allow anyone to sit in the middle of the street.”

Governor John Hickenlooper issued the following statement Saturday evening: “We respect the First Amendment, but we can’t condone illegal activity. State troopers and Denver police are showing great restraint in the face of very difficult situations. The governor and senior staff have closely monitored the situation in downtown Denver all day and continue to do so. We urge all protesters to obey the law.”

In the aftermath of Friday morning’s dismantlement of the Occupy Denver camp at Lincoln Park on orders from Gov. John Hickenlooper, word of the “suppression” of their protest spread far and wide–although a number of cities have moved to enforce laws against camping in city parks, etc., against Occupy Wall Street offshoots, Denver appears to have been more “successful” in doing so than some others. This leaves Hickenlooper in a bit of a jam politically.

It was a foregone conclusion that after Friday morning’s events, Saturday’s Occupy Denver march would be very large, and they didn’t disappoint. But the weekend demonstrators who swelled Occupy Denver’s crowds, based on numerous reports we’ve received, were not involved in the illegal blocking of roadways and other incidents that escalated the police response yesterday. The overwhelming majority of yesterday’s estimated 2,000-3,000 protesters dispersed peacefully after the protest march.

In our view, yesterday’s events call out a growing problem with the relatively disorganized Occupy Denver protests–despite a popular message and broad public support, some of the protesters are the same fringy scofflaw types who consistently give such events a bad name. We would argue that the vast majority of Occupy Denver protesters do not wish to be pepper sprayed or otherwise attacked by police, but some among them are determined to do stupid and counterproductive things like sitting down in the middle of Broadway that provoke such a response. Even from a hard-core protester’s point of view, doing that creates exactly the “pretext” police need to break up your protest. Our personal view is that once you sit down in the middle of a major boulevard, police are obligated to remove you for your own safety.

Which brings us to the Occupy Denver encampment broken up Friday. In a press conference, Gov. Hickenlooper asserted that Occupy Denver campers had illegally tapped power in Lincoln Park for use in their makeshift kitchen, necessitating repairs by Xcel Energy. Hickenlooper also made specific reference to “squalid” conditions in the park during the campout, the details of which we’ll spare you as it’s breakfast time. But Hickenlooper was very explicit about, well, insufficient sanitary facilities in Lincoln Park in the weeks Occupy Denver was encamped there.

We have also heard from some eyewitnesses who dispute Hickenlooper’s account of conditions in Lincoln Park during the encampment. But we do see how what he described certainly could have happened in a large unplanned public gathering over the course of a couple of weeks. And we hate to say it, but that’s one of the reasons we have a permit process–long events need to provide for sanitation, folks. If they don’t, it’s a problem. And not a “civil liberties” one.

We feel as though if we keep going down this line we could find more to criticize, but that’s really not our intention: as we’ve said, the Occupy Wall Street movement is popular, and core tenets of their message are broadly identified with by the public. These protests are trying to give voice to frustration felt by millions of Americans over an economy that doesn’t work for them anymore, and declining opportunity in this country–that can in no way be dismissed as “the fringe.” We’re talking about the thousands who came to Denver yesterday to stand with Occupy Denver, but not the dozens who were arrested for making idiots of themselves.

If you care about what Occupy Denver says it wants, then do right by those millions of people looking to these protests for hope. Do not squander this opportunity, perhaps the most important grassroots uprising in this country in decades, with stupidity that discredits everyone involved.

This concludes our Sunday morning lecture.

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41 thoughts on “Big Crowds And A Few Stupid People”

  1. “squalid” conditions and the alleged tapping into electricity because the powers-that-be DON’T want to discuss the underlying reasons for the huge crowds of protestors all over the country?  Because then we’d have to talk about the huge inequities in our country — a country clearly on a downward spiral.  The economic crises being faced by millions are not going to go away just because a Governor chooses to discuss the lack of sanitary facilities at a protest.  

    Nicholas Kristof has a good analysis of what’s really happened in our country, and why economic growth is stalled:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10…

     

    1. If the conversation among the general public does become about the inequities and how the game is so heavily rigged toward those at the top, then the people will demand change.

      And if the politicians have the voters demanding change on one side and on the other side they have the people who fund their campaigns demanding no change – they’re in a world of hurt.

      1. Their money ensures their power.  They follow the directions of those who provide the money, and they doublespeak to the rest of us.  I’m more than a little cynical today.

        1. that the Occupy movement is dangerous to the status quo.

          His formulation is followed by a couple of big “if”s, but that’s the danger he’s talking about.

  2. 1. For Hick this is about winning the media opinion while not pissing off the protesters. Also he wins support from the protesters as this extends and the media coverage continues.

    Best thing for Occupy is to have daily actions where police and media show up for some light hearted action, a few token arrests, a few streets get closed, etc…. Hick will support this daily type of action, it’s a great win for him until Dean Singleton decides it’s time to wrap it up. Not to worry though, Dean needs to sell papers and appear to be balanced and not part of the 1%.

    The only real threat to Occupy is some cold weather, any hint of violence, and the citizens getting tired of the continuing street closures caused by daily Occupy actions that move around the city.

    2. As stated in a Denver Post column recently, Occupy is a failed and flawed effort to protest against Democrats for losing the 2010 elections … http://www.denverpost.com/opin…

    The idea to occupy Wall Street was hatched by “Adbusters,” an anti-consumerist, anti-capitalist Vancouver magazine. The protest is a strategy shift to retake the offensive via a contrived counterattack diverting attention from the Obama disaster. This time the bogeyman isn’t George W. Bush, it’s a cartoonish and nebulous characterization of “Wall Street, corporations and greed.” This is right out of the Saul Alinsky playbook. The short-term goal is to get Obama and Democrats re-elected. The long-term goal is socialist utopia.

    Check out the You Tube video featuring Nelini Stamp, a professional community organizer (just like Obama) for the Working Families Party, a front group for ACORN, the SEIU and other labor unions. She brags about her work in organizing, mobilizing and expanding the Occupy Wall Street movement. With recruiting help from MoveOn.org and unions joining the show, this is another version of the staged “occupation” of the Wisconsin statehouse earlier this year. In the smart phone/social media era, spontaneity isn’t what it used to be.

    Demonstrators claim to speak for “99 percent” of Americans against the wealthy 1 percent. To buy that, you’d have to believe that 99 percent of Americans are Marxists and idiots. As measured by the dramatic GOP victory in 2010 and Obama’s plunging approval numbers, swing-voting independents are abandoning him and Democrats in droves. The Occupy Wall Street collective is confused about what it wants but it wants it now! Some of the loonier demands from its independent thinkers: Striking all existing public and private debt from the books across the “entire planet”; elimination of all international borders; free college education; a guaranteed “living wage” for all regardless of employment; an end to free trade; trillions in additional spending for infrastructure and ecological restoration; and ending the fossil fuel economy.

    Trust me and jump to the entire Denver Post editorial page piece … It’s really quite a glorious review of the “OWS” thing …. http://www.denverpost.com/opin…

    2. … which must mean it’s true, because, how do you put it, Singleton has Hick on a leash to sell papers until the citizenry tires of the traffic jams. Except that’s Mike Rosen you’re quoting.

      1. Check out this video. There are clearly at least 4000-5000 people. About 100 in each “frame) and the video goes on for nearly 3 1/2 minutes! The Post said 2000. A great example of MSM ignoring grassroots. If there were 3 tea partiers there, you know they would make it about them!

    3. Now back to reality folks…

      The Colorado House went Republican by one seat. A real mandate there Mike.

      The Colorado Senate remained Dem losing just one seat.

      And the governorship went to a Dem who walked into office after the Republicans nominated a laughingstock their own party leaders repudiated because the anointed candidate lied his way out of contention.

      Why doesn’t Rosen jump in his Jaguar (conveniently provided to him by Stevenson Auto so he doesn’t know what a car payment is) and go down and interview some of the protesters for his show.

      But he wouldn’t be caught dead with the great unwashed.  

    4. and anyone else who thinks that OWS protesters are anti-Tea Party socialists are dumbasses.

      Just because Rosen is fine with industries owning government doesn’t mean those he doesn’t agree with are ok with government owning industries.

  3. Thanks for the clear, level-headed comments. I’ve been a “hard core protester” since the Rocky Flats days and I’m dismayed by what I’m seeing with OD. I’ll come out for the rallies, but that’s about it. The bigger message is too important and if some of these protesters don’t (quickly) learn about how to conduct civil disobedience (never mind points of law and civics….) they will lose public support, to the detriment of the movement.  

  4. I was at the march yesterday (my diary “So I went down to the demonstration…” is posted on Pols) and the event was a strong show of support for the movement. The issues are legitimate, the outrage over what has happened to our country justified, and in my opinion long overdue.

    We took over the streets for the march (I don’t think there was a parade permit), so legally that may not have been allowed, but the authorities did nothing to stop it. After returning to Civic Center, the remaining marchers split up into two groups for speaking, one in the park and the other in the middle of Broadway. Some people were yelling that everybody should be in one group in the park, but that didn’t happen and Broadway continued to be occupied for the next hour when I left.

    So the cops allowed Broadway to be occupied and blocked for at least an hour and a half and did nothing, I believe showing prudent restraint in the matter.

    With the park available for the exercise of First Amendment rights (and in fact half the crowd doing just that), there was no reason to have a crowd and speakers occupying Broadway and obstructing traffic on a public roadway, which is illegal.

    The First Amendment is not an absolute right in that the Supreme Court has ruled it does not give you the right to yell Fire ! in a crowded theater or withhold life saving medical treatment from your child because of your religious beliefs. Our courts have ruled that political expression is the highest form of protection under the First Amendment. The organizers of Occupy Denver must learn to use that protection smartly and effectively.

    Many have fought, sacrificed, and died for our freedoms. The First Amendment is not preserved and defended by journalists, bloggers, or protesters, but by the blood of our soldiers.

     

    1. in ever increasing numbers. The state police have been gathering all morning and there are currently a handful of protesters. Did you stay until after dark, where people were clubbed and pepper sprayed?  

      1. As I was carrying an anti-war poster that quoted Eisenhower, a member of the Veterans for Peace struck up a conversation with me (he was a Vietnam Vet). I told him I never served but my father (Navy) and my mother (Army nurse) both served in WW II, my mother buried with military honors six years ago.

        He invited me to march with them in the Veterans Day parade in honor of my mother. I think she would approve because she knew that war was not healthy for children and other living things, having experienced the stench of death in the bombed out cities of Japan during the occupation.  

        1. occupiers were brutalized by order of the mayor and governor. I was there. I was hurt by standing up for my right of redress, my right of free speech, and my right to peaceably assemble.  

  5. Naturally we all believe everything politicians say, so if the governor says he’s all for freedom of speech, and only concerned about what happens if tents catch fire, then that’s what was going through his head when he, and he alone among officials confronted with Occupy sites in the United States, ordered “riot gear” cops to remove protesters from Lincoln Park.

    Well, we don’t all believe that line. “Sanitary conditions” and “flow of traffic on Broadway” are also Constitutional concerns that top freedom of assembly, aren’t they? While politicians customarily bow before the God of Freedom of Speech, they seldom are seen near the shrines to Freedom of Assembly. Perhaps that’s because there are no shrines to Freedom of Assembly, at least not here on the High Plains. Sure, you’re free to say whatever you want, but if you want to address more than 3 or 4 others, then you need a permit — not to speak, but to assemble, and the government will tell you what vacant lot in the midst of nowhere you can use!

    For an interesting essay on this issue, I suggest this story by architecture critic Michael Kimmelman in today’s NYT: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10…

    Hoping that you read the article and are now coming back here, let me quote one line in particular: “In his Politics,‘ Aristotle argued that the size of an ideal polis extended to the limits of a herald’s cry. He believed that the human voice was directly linked to civic order. A healthy citizenry in a proper city required face-to-face conversation.”

    Kimmelman goes on to note that most European cities have places regularly used for, and by, protest demonstrations, including tents. All-‘Murkun cities such as Denver do not. And with politicos like Hick the Loop-de-Loop, we won’t have them unless we take over some government grounds, thereby sacrificing the prim order of green lawns and risking interrupting traffic in violation of the First Commandment: “Thou Shalt Not Interrupt Traffic unless the governor says it’s okay.”

    Interrupting traffic! What would the world come to? Sure, contractors galore can close lanes to clean the sewers, but Loop-de-Loop forbid that lanes be closed to protest the Decline and Fall of our entire society!

    Change is a messy business. Just ask anyone who can’t get a job, or who has been laid off because his/her job has been sent to Asia, or because someone’s stock options aren’t quite what they hoped. It has been important that the impact on individuals of the deindustrialization of America be kept behind closed curtains, where victims can suffer alone while everyone else calmly drives down orderly broad boulevards, oblivious to who, and how many, people are down and out of the way.

    The governor of Colorado well deserves a new title: His Irrelevance. Behind every person in Lincoln Park, to say nothing of every person daring to step off the curb, there are 10 or 100 or 1,000 in sympathy. What passes for government — paid agents for private interests — will be replaced by We the People, to the dismay of CEOs and Lawn Order advocates alike.

    The change that brought us so low will give way to change that will overturn and evict those responsible for the state of affairs, not those exercising their right of assembly and their right of free speech at the same time and place. If evictions are required, and they are, the question is whether they should start in the heart of the capitol or the heart of das kapital. Either way, the evictions will take place, sneers notwithstanding.  

        1. But when virtually all are in the pocket of anyone, generally the problem then is not the individuals, it’s the system. Replace the people under the same system and you’ll see the same corruption.

          The rich have always had outside influence. What has changed is that they now have almost absolute control. And to a very large degree this is due to the way we presently fund campaigns. To win a candidate needs to raise a ton of money. Most of that money comes from the rich.

          Public funding won’t fly. Limiting funding has been a complete failure. I think the answer is no restrictions on donations.

            1. But the present system is a disaster and tweaking it won’t fix it. So we need to try something very different. I’m pretty much open to anything very different.

              What might make my proposal work is that it would inject so much money that it could drown out the impact of most ads because they would all be lost in the cacophony of a million ads.

              1. Not that I am calling you a closet Republican or anything.  But if we are going to image a new order, I would go with public financing rather than just throw in the towel and make our Corporatacracy complete.  

                Better disclosure is fine, good even, but it still won’t get at the basic issue of the K Street johns trolling the capitol brothel.  And money can always be laundered.  

                Wealth is so concentrated in this nation, and around the globe, that those who have (let’s call them the 1%) already enjoy immense political advantage.  Your approach would hand them the few cards left in our hands…

                The secret Koch donors were revealed and–as far as I can tell–it did not cause their political power to evaporate in the harsh glare of scrutiny.

                The anti-environment crowd loves to talk about the wealthy environmental groups, just as the righties love to talk up George Soros (so much so they invent the connection, a la the Sentinel’s recent editorial), but its really apples and oranges, or at least really really small apples and large monster apples. The difference in degree, if not kind, is so substantial between public and private interest entities that there is no possibility for an even playing field once  all limits are removed.  

                Might as well just go for the NASCAR option at that point–have the pols wear their sponsorships on their sleeves…

                “Are you voting this year for candidate EnCana or candidate XCel?”

                1. That’s it exactly. Plutocracy is here already, reinforced by the corporatist Supremes.  If we accept, like sheep, that corporations really are people and money really is speech, then it’s already pretty much over. The 99% can either rise up and say “hell no” now, or the United States of America as a representative Republic of the living breathing people, by the living breathing people and for the living breathing people simply ceases to exist in any meaningful way.  

                  OWS, with all its flaws and kinks to work out, is the only truly populist movement out there.  There is nothing populist about the TPers. Its sole reason for being is reaction to a black guy in the White House, in spite of the presence of the occasional Caine. OWS’ reason for being is our very survival as self governing human citizens with voices that can’t be completely drowned out by the non-human corporate entities with all the money/speech/power.  

                2. I agree that is the best solution. But I don’t see our country accepting it. Most voters are still into the “I want everything, don’t tax me, and all politicians are scum.” That’s not a mindset that will go for public financing.

                  1. interwebs are the way to get there. Big Money owns the MSM. Note the willingness of Rachel Maddow, Ed, Lawrence, and the rest of the progressive talking heads on MSNBC to continue with their assault on the conservative POV, but seldom challenge the outright lies told by their advertisers.

                    Coming from me, you guys know that I’m mostly infuriated by the relentless ANGA bullshit that gets spewed at almost every commercial break. How many gazillion dollars does it take to get these people to engage in this charade? Well…GE has enough. And if they run short they can sell a few hundred million dollars more worth of advertising to Exxon/Mobil, ANGA, API, Chevron, Conoco/Phillips, OneOK,…

                    Then there are the United Healthcare ads that make me crazy …but, that’s another rant.

                    To my point though, short of shutting down the entire worldwide communication grid, there is no way the 1% can effectively control the internet. It has been an obvious engine of change in the mideast…why not here? Look at what is going on with OWS.

                       

        2. Could it be that the modern nation-state has outgrown democracy? I refer again to Michael Kimmelman’s essay in the NYT about the architecture of democracy (link in “Lawn Order” comment above).

          Perhaps more initiatives need to be taken by cities or counties. On that level, running for office is not so expensive that individuals of modest means can’t do so without huge “donations.”

          Single-payer health insurance, paid by property taxes, is one possible reform. Programs to attract start-up entrepreneurs is another. Excellence in education, certainly. Public access to  (free) WiFi could be a way to provide relevant infrastructure at a cost that could be borne locally. Et cetera, experiment by experiment.

          Not ONE solution for all problems everywhere, but maybe we need to reconsider the scale of government and economic enterprises.

  7. It’s worth remembering that the only reason anyone has paid attention to OWS (and thus the only reason anyone has paid attention to the big protests yesterday in Denver or anywhere) is that the original protesters broke the law. Occupying public or private space is certainly illegal if you use the strictest interpretation of the law, as our friends in Denver discovered early Friday morning.

    If they don’t somehow try to continue the civil disobedience, the movement fizzles out in Colorado. This is the only way they have of getting attention for their anger against the corporate-dominated political system, because the protest will be completely forgotten by Tuesday.

    And yes, that’s what civil disobedience is: doing silly things for the purpose of getting arrested. Why do you think people sat in at lunch counters? Because they were hungry? You think Rosa Parks was just too tired to walk ten steps to the back of the bus? Every act of civil disobedience you know involved people who planned to get arrested to call attention to something.

  8. there were two statewide candidates who refused corporate money; Andrew Romanoff and Stan Garrett (they both lost, of course). There is a Republican presidential candidate, Buddy Roemer, who has also refused corporate money and has said that he supports OWS.

    They GO(T)P won’t even let him participate in the debates.

    When American voters refuse to vote for those who represent the thieves who have absconded with our standard of living, we may have a chance of getting it back.  

    1. accepting such funds in all his previous elections and clearly was simply trying to give us a reason to fire a centrist incumbent and hire his centrist self. Not exactly my idea of a populist champion. I remember all too well how proud he was of the bi-partisan draconian legislation put together on his watch, through his efforts, targeting illegal immigrants. At the time, don’t forget, it was touted as being just about the toughest in the nation.

      At the time, the economy and our own income hadn’t tanked yet and we could afford weekly mowing  by a service.  Our guys all disappeared before the next spring.  It was a family business,  Dad spoke with an accent but not the two adult sons.  Must have been here since before they could remember and they ran a legit business, didn’t ask for cash or anything and did a great job. Didn’t charge less than legal Vietnamese services in the neighborhood either.

      If some like Andrew better or appreciate all he has done in the past to help elect Dems, fine, but the whole idea of his being an iota to the left of or more progressive or more populist than Bennet has always  been the flimsiest fiction, totally unsupported by any objective look at his record. And wherever our old lawn service family is now, I hope they’re doing well.

  9. Occupy Denver is being attended by a former big-time Democrat activist and con man.

    I’m sure the Democrats here remember their buddy Rick Strandlof?

    http://blogs.denverpost.com/cr…

    That protestor with an angel tattoo on one calf and a devil tattoo on the other appeared to be serial impersonator Rick Strandlof. When approached for his name by a Denver Post photographer, the scruffy man walked a way, collapsing his tent and disappearing into the crowd.

    When Strandlof went as Rick Duncan in 2008 and 2009, he told politicians, reporters and anti-war activists he was an Iraqi War veteran with post traumatic stress disorder. None of that was true.

    A few months ago, he was outed for pretending to be a lawyer and infiltrating Denver’s Jewish community as Rick Gold.

    Now he’s out protesting under his own name…

    The salt of the earth, I’m sure. Are we done with this farce yet?

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