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January 27, 2011 5:06 pm MST

Thursday Open Thread

  • by: MADCO

“There is nothing more frightful than ignorance in action.”

–Johann Wolfgang von Goethe


79 thoughts on “Thursday Open Thread

  1. Congress is going to have to raise the debt ceiling any minute now. В I expect no serious opposition, Speaker Boehner has made it clear that acting responsibly doesn’t mean shutting down the gov’t nor defaulting on national obligations.

    I do, however expect 50% Tipton to elaborate on his campaign claim that the US budget could be cut in half without loss of necessary services.

    Here in Colorado, the SOS campaigned on a vote for me because I can do more with less theme. В What he meant is unclear since the former SOS found a way to budget the office on $3.5 million less, $3.5 million that the new guy says must be retained in the SOS budget.

    The R wave was apparently not about real reductions or solutions. В It was about rumor and innuendo. About creating a perception that because of their R affiliation they were the candidates of serious fiscal restraint. В Apparently, not even “deficits don’t matter matters anymore.

    1. The first act of their majority is to pass a repeal of HRC, by cutting off debate or amendments from the minority party….something they campaigned on always allowing when they were elected.

      They pass the “repeal” by ramming it thru the House floor without enough time for review or comment from the public – something they campaigned on always allowing when they were elected.

      They promised that job creation would be Job#1 when they took control in the House – so their first action for committees? Have hearings on how horrible the HRC law is… which they’ve already passed a repeal of.

      And they’re going to have endless hearings on the President. Because that creates a lot of jobs.

      1. Over the last 2 years they talked about it a lot but after the stimulus bill, did nothing more. Ritter & Hick both talked about jobs, but Ritter never did much outside of green energy to help on the job front and Hick just doubled down on repressing small business job growth with the Roxy Huber appointment.

        They all talk about it a lot because they know it’s the primary concern of the voters. But few of them back up that talk with action.

        1. The state government is bound by TABOR from doing more than its budget allows, and that’s not much.

          Dan is talking about the Federal level, and I think that the Federal government over the last two years has done, if not all that it can, at least a lot of what it can given the political makeup of the Congress.

      2. Hey, LB, tell me again… did this ever occur during the last session of Congress? If no, then how is it that your assertion about the Dems’ attitude was “screw you, we won,” like you’ve repeatedly asserted, true? And is this even-worse behavior really okay with you?

        No end justifies means that would piss you off if the other side were doing it.

        1. The majority in the House almost always creates rules which limit amendments from the minority and minimize their involvement in committee and conference discussions.

          Of course, Republicans (both this time and the last time they were in charge) have been much more restrictive than the Democrats in this regard.  House Republicans at least got seats at the table in conference, and weren’t denied meeting rooms for their own meetings.  And the new rules are more limiting than the last regarding certain motions.

          Pity the Democratic Senate won’t be using their majority to reform their rules as they should.

      1. from Gessler in the very near future??

        “That sleazebag at the car lot told me the Lexus was 14-years old, . . . how was I supposed to know?”

  2. Say what you will about PERA, its members, its “problems,” or the make up of the PERA board . . .

    A bill to radically change the composition of the PERA board has been introduced (pdf) by Rep. Jim Kerr, R-Littleton. His bill would reduce the number of members elected by PERA participants and replace them with political appointees.

    The Public Employees’ Retirement Association of Colorado (PERA) has been in financial trouble for years, and Kerr says part of the problem is that too many board members have a conflict of interest. Others say it is precisely those who pay into the system and benefit from the system who should be in charge.

    (my emphasis)

    . . . you just gotta love Rep. Kerr’s justification for his legislation!  Deeeeeelicious.

  3. ‘Please don’t shoot me:’ Girl, nine, begged for her life before she and her father were shot dead by ‘anti-immigrant vigilantes’

    A nine-year-old girl begged for her life before being shot dead along with her father by an anti-immigrant vigilante group, a court heard.

    Brisenia Flores was gunned down at point-blank range in her own home in Flores, Arizona, as her terrified mother Gina Gonzalez, who had also been hit, played dead on the floor.

    She sobbed as the court was told how she had heard Brisenia’s desperate pleas as her killer stood over her.

    ‘I can hear it happening,’ Mrs Flores told the court describing how her daughter said: ‘Why did you shoot my dad? Why did you shoot my mom?’

    ‘I can hear her telling him to “please don’t shoot me.”‘

    The prosecution alleges that the child and her father Raul Flores Jr were murdered in May 30, 2009 by a group of vigilantes set up to tackle Mexican immigrants.

    Shawna Forde, the head of the Minutemen American Defence group, is on trial accused of two charges of first degree murder.

            1. And no lifetime maintenance expense.

              The question should be whether or not the convicted criminals recognize the authority of the relevant laws.  If not, they should be executed as enemies of the state, ie, us.

              In this case, it sounds like the accused not only do not recognize the authority of the law, but also believe they can be the law.  

              Lt Kendrick: I have two books at my bedside, Lieutenant, the Marine Corps Code of Conduct and the King James Bible. The only proper authorities I am aware of are my commanding officer Colonel Nathan R. Jessup and the Lord our God.

              Lt Kaffee: At your request, Lieutenant, I can have the record reflect your lack of acknowledgment of this court as a proper authority.

              1. But I can’t condone killing, even if they do deserve to experience the same unparalleled terror that the little girl experienced before they murdered her.

                1. And neither justice nor security require it.

                  If they did it as described, I don’t want to hate on them. I don’t want to torture them.   I just want them gone.  

                  1. But locked away in a hole is better than being culled to sleep. They don’t deserve such a painless death (Arizona uses lethal injection and gas chamber, but only two inmates of the 30+ executed since 1973 were killed by the gas chamber method.)

    1. along with the rest of the Tanfreako supporters. He was one of their most vocal supporters, after all:

      Shawna Forde and members of Minuteman American Defense – an anti-illegal immigration vigilante group charged in the double homicide of an Arizona man and his 9-year-old daughter and the attempted murder of the man’s wife – shared a stage, if not their vigilante streak, with former U.S. Rep. Tom Tancredo.

      Authorities in Arizona’s Pima County allege Forde, 41, and MAD members Jason Eugene Bush, 34, and Albert Robert Gaxiola, 42, intended to rob and murder the Flores family in order to fund the group’s anti-immigration vigilante activities. Raul Flores, 29, had a history of drug dealing and the trio believed that there would be a large amount of cash at the victims’ trailer home near the border town of Arivaca, according to CBS News. Sheriff Clarence Dupnik fingered Forde as the ringleader.

      Forde’s zealous involvement in extremist anti-immigration groups belies the fluidity with which the Everett, Wash., woman traveled within so-called mainstream organizations, which helped further her local and national political aims as well as the goals of those who shared her beliefs.

      Her most recent link to Tancredo, the former Republican congressman from Colorado, occurred at a sparsely attended 2007 Everett rally organized by The Reagan Wing and MAD, a splinter group Forde led that was an offshoot of the more widely known Minuteman Civil Defense Corps. The event featured representatives of Tancredo’s dark-horse presidential campaign and a letter of support from the candidate himself.

      (BTW, can we link to CoIndy?)

  4. The Denver Post ran an article today with figures about how much debt various CO counties have–but the figures that they gave were from the Independence Institute.  They listed Denver County as having over $8 billion in debt.  Does anyone know whether these figures are accurate?

    1. Did you see what they are considering “debt”?  Voter approved improvements.  For a group that loves local control, they sure hate Denver’s local control.  They brought up the same things when accusing Hickenlooper of “raising taxes” during the last election.

    2. The article is misleading because many local governments choose to take on debt in the form of bonds or other obligations to build jails or acquire open space or other things the citizens want.

      Denver, of course, just had a huge jail expansion and other capital construction projects, so technically their ‘debt’ is larger than other counties.  

      The fact that Weld County never asks for anything, and the fact that they have enjoyed strong property tax revenue ad oil and gas revenue, leads to a health budget.

      Good on them, but the article is somewhat misleading if you don’t read between the lines.

        1. Items brought to the floor for reform (each a separate vote):

          * End the “secret” part of secret holds.

          * Legislatively exempt 1/3 of the current 1400+ executive nominations from requiring Senate confirmation.

          * Eliminate the reading of amendments if they’ve been publicly available for 3 days.

          In addition, there’s an “on the record” gentleman’s agreement stating that McConnell and Reid will not use the Constitutional Option in this Senate session or the next, McConnell will reduce the number of filibusters on motions to proceed while Reid will reduce his use of filling the amendment tree.


  5. implying a sinister connection between the five pillars of Obama policy cited in conjunction with the SOTU but never mentioned as such by Obama in that speech and the five pillars of Islam I decided to check out both.  Here’s what I found on each:

    For Islam:

    1) Faith or belief in the Oneness of God and the finality of the prophethood of Muhammad;

    2) Establishment of the daily prayers;

    3) Concern for and almsgiving to the needy;

    4) Self-purification through fasting; and

    5) The pilgrimage to Makkah for those who are able.

    A site that offers detail:

    All sounds like the typical combination of general niceness and the specifics of a particular religion or sect common to most familiar religions.  Various kinds of Christians, Jews, including Beck’s own Mormons, are familiar with prayer, charity, fasting and visiting holy sites. Lots of overlap


    1) reform rules and regulations for Wall Street,

    2) reform the education system,

    3) harness renewable energy,

    4) reform the health care system,

    5) restore fiscal disciple

    Hmmm. Not much overlap.

    But Beck seemed to be saying that calling them pillars and the number five was sending a secret message (not another one!?!). Somehow this could best be illustrated by brandishing first a bunny and then a chain saw and kind of implying he might cut the bunny in  half.  I know.  I don’t get where he was going with that either.  But here’s something I do get. And you should too!!!  

    Are you ready? Beck’s hand, holding the bunny and then the chainsaw, has five fingers! And fingers are kind of like little pillars if you hold them up vertically, aren’t they?  Could that be simply a coincidence? Of course…. it’s possible (wink, wink) but shouldn’t we all be smart enough to know better?  

    The message ought to be clear: Beck has followed every connecting line on every board and has finally discovered the source for every sinister conspiracy thus illustrated. The answer? Isn’t it obvious? Glen Beck; five fingered, secret Muslim, bunny hating enemy of the state.  Who knew?

    Oh wait.  He might just be a money grubbing buffoon.  

  6. “Polly Baca leads for Colorado!

    Make this your profile picture and make sure to run for the State Central Committee at your County Re-org in February! Polly is the leader to heal the Democratic Party of Colorado!”

    (For those of you on the colossal waste of bandwidth, go here:…. )

    Now, I admit that Colorado Dems are a dysfunctional family in the best of times, but we really haven’t needed to “heal” since the Miles/Salazar primary race.

    Am I missing something?  

            1. An amazing equivalency — in one case 28 years of butts and shit lasted 28 years; in the other, 2 years of butts and shit seemed to last 28 years.  Time-shit-shithead-space dilation.

    1. Good gawd, what will those evil geniuses try next?? Demonstrating some deep commitment to civil rights?? Selecting an RNC Chairperson of color??  Supporting women’s suffrage???

      Run for the hills Dems — the jig is up! — the Republicans have entered the 1960’s!

    2. when the hypocritical fucks actually remove the antigay stuff from their platform. And then I’ll only believe that they’re jockeying for more votes, and not sincerely embracing the LGBT community as people deserving the same rights as straights.

      1. when the hypocritical fucks actually remove the anti-immigrant stuff from their platform. And then I’ll only believe that they’re jockeying for more votes, and not sincerely embracing the Latino community as people deserving the same rights as whites.

        when the hypocritical fucks actually remove the anti-abortion stuff from their platform. And then I’ll only believe that they’re jockeying for more votes, and not sincerely embracing the womens community as people deserving the same rights as men.

        It works in so many ways!

  7. ….doing some research for (hopefully) my TEDxDU presentation, and I stumbled onto this:

    TEDxPentagon – Rear Admiral David Titley, USN – Climate Change and National Security

    Gonna be hard to deal with this one, LB…that a commie-pinko lib’rul institution like THE PENTAGON recognizes the reality and national security threat of Climate Change….

    1. The same guys who fell for  Friedman’s prediction that by the middle 21st century at the latest, Mexico would be the viable regional military threat we’d have to worry about?  (Something about Mexico being a net oil exporter through the century- whoops they’re an importer now like us.)

      But I’ve seen their data- they are right to be concerned and addressing it.  How do you fight the next war with 30 days supply of diesel?  How/where do you homeport an aircraft carrier when the sea level is 18″ higher? What does the rising tide do for the coastal populations? etc and so on

    2. He’s a scientist, after all.

      Education includes a B.S. in Meteorology from the Pennsylvania State University, a M.S. in Meteorology and Physical Oceanography and Ph.D. in Meteorology, both from the Naval Postgraduate School. He attended the Massachusetts Institute of Technology Seminar XXI on Foreign Politics, International Relations and National Interest, and is a fellow of the American Meteorological Society.

  8. I know a lot of you don’t necessarily like responding to posters who use excessive amounts of bolding in their type, but have a question on the DPS story that MotR wrote about earlier today and was wondering if any of you could help me out.

    The question is about board/non-profit structure which I know very little about, but the answer to this would help to answer whether or not there is a legitimate case against Nate Easley.

    Seeing as there have already been a number of shills appearing around this issue I was hoping to appeal to some of you regulars here to help me out.

    Much obliged.

      1. but basically it was how can someone simultaneously be a superior and subordinate to another person in the same non-profit.

        The original statement that prompted the question was worded in a very confusing manner and the entire diary was since deleted.

        I posted the link instead of retyping the question because I was trying to avoid posting the same thing all over the place. My understanding and experience with the norms of this site is that reposting the same comment is bad form, but maybe that just complicated matters.

        Many thanks again though to MotR and coloradowah-something for their clarification. You can see the exchange better on MotR’s original diary.

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