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November 24, 2010 06:49 AM UTC
80 Comments
Sad in so many ways.
Thanks for serving.
Thanks for sharing.
Sleep well.
Serving on a jury is one of the most important jobs any of us can do. I’m sorry that you had to sit on the jury in this horrible case, but you bore witness to the suffering of this poor baby and did your best to dispense justice for him. God bless you; talk to someone if you need to process this experience.
You did good.
in what was obviously a traumatic experience.
Is it “over”? You know, and I know, that there are other children out there, this very morning, who also need rescuing, from abuse, from neglect, from starvation.
We cannot single-handedly save them all. Perhaps we comfort ourselves by saying, well, at least I’m taking care of my children. A starting place, of course.
But I disagree when you say “this isn’t about politics.” Taking care of children outside the immediate four walls of our huts, yurts, or teepees is the very essence of politics.
I realize that you at least pay attention to this subject. I realize that you are fully aware of what I’m talking about. This isn’t a sermon or a criticism; it’s a question: Did you learn anything, whether or not as part of the legal proceedings, that you, and I, and others could use to prevent a recurrence of such a nightmare? I for one am entirely unconvinced that our legal system is the appropriate way to deal with such cases.
I am not a religious person; au contraire. But reading your story, and others like it, or seeing videos from western Sudan, Kurdistan, or Srebrenica, does persuade me that the concept of evil is real and needs to be actively combatted every single day with all available resources. Encountering it up close may provide some insights.
I did not.
And I disagree with your premise. The mother and father in this case were drug addicted (pill-heads, large doses of percocets). They were also theives, dealing in stolen electrician’s equipment worth thousands of dollars while their son lay dying. And finally, they were simply abusive and reckless and neglectful parents.
I do not believe it will ever be possible to reach behind our collective closed doors to rescue all the children who have ever been or currently are suffering similarly. I believe we will never be omniscient in determining who is and isn’t a victim in cases like these until it is obvious because they go to the hospital or neighbors become suspicious and make a report, or teachers or other professionals do. But this baby was less than three weeks old when taken tot he hospital with extremely severe injuries. Those injuries were likely delivered at one time or in a very short time, so no one else would have noticed a pattern by then.
We live in a free society, free from excessive government power to intrude in all our private lives. This means things like this will always be able to happen and the best we can do about it is to address the issue once we become aware. We as a society couldn’t have prevented this tragedy in my view. The argument was made at trial that maybe the mother could have done something to protect her child, but it is my view thta she was complicit in everything which occurred.
There was other testimony given that people thought in hindsight that maybe they should have recognized indications of abuse before the final tragedy happened, bu tthey didn’t at the time, and I don’t fault them. Things are always apparent in hindsight which aren’t os much so in the moment.
And thanks for serving on that jury. Our justice system is severely flawed in many ways, but when you have a jury that takes their job seriously and acts impartially, more times than not justice is served.
1. Omniscience is an unrealistic standard. Better insight will have to suffice.
2. You say we live in “a free society, free from excessive government power to intrude in all our private lives.” I say: “excessive” is in the eye of the beholder. I ask: Is the way we treat our children part of our “private lives”?
3. It may well be that this case offers no particular insights. It may be that the child’s birth was unattended, and that there was no chance for a medical professional to question sending the baby home with an addicted mother. It may be that economic circumstances played no role in the parents’ addiction. It may be that there was no chance before the mother’s pregnancy to intervene in her addiction, or in the father’s criminal career, such as it was.
Perfection is unattainable, granted. Improvements are eminently achievable if we keep trying, if we reject the notion of “that’s just the way it is, nothing to be done.”
Maybe there’s nothing to take away from this case except sorrow and pity. I wasn’t there, I don’t know.
I’m curious whether you thought your post was about you, about doing your duty (Huzza, huzza!), about sharing your trauma as online group therapy. Just wondering; not really a question about you.
Are you about finished here? Maybe you could start your own diary, fill it with bullshit, and post to yourself there. Oh wait, you do that regularly. Well, now’s a good time to do it again (Huzza, huzza!)!
would be the presumption that abuse is or may be taking place absent any compelling evidence that it is so. Excessive would be the ability to peer behind all our closed doors to satisfy the protective instinct to sheild those most vulnerable in our society from any potential insult or injury. Excessive would be granting the government these powers aganst ordinary citizens without allowing those same citizens access to due process in our justice sytem first. All these would be excessive in the eyes of this beholder.
And I also think your unwarranted comment about my reason for posting is excessive. I also find it strange you would say anything like that as I have been one of the few people on this site who I have ever seen support you. Why attack me then?
As for “presumption of abuse,” denial of due process, or any such, where did you get that?
But never mind.
That sounds and feels pretty confrontational to me. And my responses were really a challenge to you to be more explicit in identifying tese kinds of cases before they become generally known about. Keep in mind the baby was less than three weeks old.
As always, you and your friends did your best.
Good luck parking.
really, I mean that. What the fuck are you talking about?
This was my diary about a difficult thing I had just experienced. What in your mind made you think to come in and make it something about you? really, what?
Unless it’s about the constitution thingy, which REALLY pisses him off.
1. “…my diary about a difficult thing I had just experienced.” It could have been interpreted, was misinterpreted by me, as being about a ghastly event involving a 3-week-old, as about how our society deals (or fails to deal) with such events, as about what, if anything, we might learn that would help us prevent a recurrence, even if just once, this being a political site and all. I see I was wrong. Your diary was about the ghastly thing that happened to you. You wanted to hear cooing and clucking noises. Nice job. Thank you for…, well, thank you. You’ve earned some pinot noir. Oh, beer? Okay.
2. As Inspector Cluseau used to say, follow the thread. Your friends, not I, decided to take the opportunity of your mental anguish to try to do their best to insult me. Their comments are right above. Cutting, no? Witty, yes? (I didn’t think so either.) But they were the ones having an exchange among the Good Ol’ Boys. Direct your query to them.
3. Since you asked… and only since you asked… I am reminded of another recent (Nov 16) thread, “my” diary, on the subject of Henryk Gorecki, the composer. I pasted a link to a rendition by Dawn Upshaw. About seven seconds into that piece is a bit of video. The video is why I created the diary, why I pasted the link, on this site. It’s also about infants, in part, not about Henryk, r.i.p. And pretty soon, we learned that Dawn Upshaw was the grand niece of your grandfather-in-law, once removed, or some such. Just like another dead infant (further along in the video)–all about jpsandscl! I realized you probably hadn’t followed the first link since you wanted to find your own NPR link, was it, and were busily looking for it without wondering what that Gorecki story was doing there, taking the time to follow the link, make the connection to a political site in a year of Republican gains. I even alluded to the Upshaw video in my comment here; I assume the connection was lost. But I do think I know something about how your mind stays focused now.
To review: I thought, wrongly, that your diary was about the hideous, short life of an infant. I asked: Anything you learned that you could pass along? Some of your friends, amid trying to cope with the Macy’s Thanksgiving Day parade, Grand Junction version, tried to stimulate themselves by trying to insult me on this, your diary about this difficult thing you had experienced. Dear Diary: You won’t believe happened to me!
Maybe I should have some feeling about your sleepless nights, poor boy, about your reaching out for consolation in your moment of anguish. Imagine that father putting you face to face with such unpleasantness! Foolish, inconsiderate, of me not to keep the focus where it belongs — on jpsandscl. Maybe I should apologize. But that would be about me, so I won’t.
I actually pity you and that’s a rarity for me.
But you are pitiful, in your hate, in your rage, in your lonely tirades and self loathing and I thank whatever deity or lack thereof, that none of us have to know you in real life.
…I have this impression: Your first post contained an interesting question. Your follow-up posts bungled it beyond recognition. Your prose is powerful, indeed.
fuck off you skeezy motherfucker. That baby died a year ago and I just spent a week in court to see justice done you little cock-bite! Who the fuck are you to get self-righteous with me you little prick? What have you ever acvtually done for anybody but rant about how evewryone else fails to meet your standards, which are complete bullshit anyway.
Don’t ever respond to my posts or diaries again. If there were a block function, I’d block you immediately. You’re a pure-bred ass-hole and don’t deserve the space ColoradoPols is gracious enough to give you for free to write your absolutely inane rantings you little fuck!
that was only to JO.
I can’t even comprehend the twisted thought process that makes this conclusion possible for you to write. You made this whole fucking diary about you, you twerp. Jesus christ…
You seem to have worn out whatever goodwill you had here.
Sorry, old boy.
Try “sane” next time. It will make up for a lot of your other shortcomings.
you don’t have to have a thesaurus handy to read their posts. Comprehension on the other hand….
…thought provoking, and creatively written.
I really don’t get this anti-JO thing, other than that 5% remainder.
Carry on!
While you’re apologizing for JO, maybe you can try to explain JO’s problem with a regular old person like jp doing jury duty.
Because try as I might, I can’t.
about how a distant relative was on NPR singing his beautiful music. Apparently this highly offended the little shit.
At any rate, he thinks it appropriate to attack me for expressing the emotional trauma I felt dealing with the trauma this child experienced. I guess JO can’t actually empathize with others, so it is beyond him to think someone could be traumatized by that experience.
Anyway, he’s noting to me any more. I’ve vented my spleen and I will ignore him from here out as I tried to do with Beej.
I can separate good writing from cruelty.
And a lesson to us all on how to handle bitchy, crazy rants. (The lesson came too late for this post, but not for the next).
Personal note; I once ended up in a court room watching… I forget what they’re called, but when the court officially strips parental rights from a parent (severance hearings?).
Apparently the father was drunk when the mother left the baby with him to go to work. Sometime during the early morning the baby cried and was picked up by the leg and thrown across the floor (spiral break in the leg, rug burns down the left side of her body). She was three months old. Fortunately she lived. The mother not only waited to seek care to save the father, she continued to cover for him. The baby sat with a broken leg for four days.
The court decided that she should have probation and continue to raise the child. All she had to do is break ties with the father. The father didn’t have anywhere to go (WAAAAAH!), so she chose to keep him and let the baby go. Repeatedly.
Now for my point. I admire your willingness to enforce the law rather than your gut. The day I sat in that courtroom I would’ve given that “mom” the death penalty. Her eyes were the only dry ones in the house. It’s probably a good thing our laws are more balanced than that. So thanks for that in addition to your service.
Termination of parental rights. I could write a book (maybe I should) about the tragedies and craziness of the world of child protection. Very difficult work in that field for all involved, and almost an art not a science, determining if and when children can remain in an abusive or neglectful home.
It did me a lot of good to recently observe adoption day celebrations in a courtroom – a number of children being adopted through the child welfare system. Was a lot of joy in the courtroom, including young children cheering when their adoption was final.
Some children are rescued from horrible situations, some are not unfortunately.
Do you know how I find out when one is occurring? I’d like to share it with my fellow jury members too.
November is National Adoption Month, and Nov 20th was Adoption Day. Here’s a website with info about events nationally. You can click on Events then select Colorado for events here. I think Colorado’s are done for the year, though:
http://www.nationaladoptionday…
Here’s a write-up on the recent event in Pueblo, for example:
http://www.chieftain.com/news/…
but the once-a-year Adoption Day events are open to family, friends, the public and the press, by permission of the families who agree to have their adoptions finalized on that day.
And even planned parenthood. Not to go off on a tangent here, but free bc pills and condoms save children from being neglected in their own way.
So I do both. Before and after care. It makes me feel slightly better.
which helps find homes for children in foster care whose parents have had their rights terminated, and also supports families who have adopted through the child welfare system:
http://www.adoptex.org/site/Pa…
….and fathers but not married or otherwise committed are often child abuse perps. Even in this small city paper there are at least two incidences a month mentioned. As I read the headline about an arrest or conviction, I already know the rest.
The case being discussed in this diary and thread is unusual because it was the actual father who was the perp, along with mom, of course. Because it was the actual father, the mother also was prosecuted.
The truly tragic thing about the boyfriend/stepfather cases is that the prosecutors tend to frame mom as a victim, too, and she all too often goes away with what she thinks is a gold medal, picks up another boyfriend and her surviving kids are fucked again.
Those are the situations that could be remedied, and the prosecutors and child welfare workers involved should pull their heads out of their asses and deal with it.
I worked with children of domestic violence and sexual assault for years and it is something that stays with you for the rest of your life. Making peace with the kind of experience you just went through takes time. And any time any of us can raise awareness of how prevalent child abuse is in our society is hopefully a way to keep us all vigilant.
Hindsight is indeed 20/20 but there are often huge red flags that we tend to ignore because the alternative–the reality of what is really happening–is too much for us to accept.
I did five weeks on a death penalty trial once. It really is a life-changing experience. And the ultimate test of citizenship.
And try to let the warmth and family love of Thanksgiving bring you some relief and joy. That and maybe a nice glass of pinot noir. Or two or three. You did your duty so admirably.
but the effect will be the same…
Thanks all for your kind thoughts and expressions. It really does mean a lot.
having heard you express yourself thoughtfully over a beer.
everyone on the jury did the same too I believe. there was only one of the other eleven who I really had any conflict with. We were just two people who seemed ot rub each other the wrong was no matter what. But even with that, I believe all twelve of us worked very diligently to reach the verdicts we did.
And it really went a ways ot reinforce in me the concept of consensus. It gets played so much lip service in the corporate and political world. “Let’s work to reach concensus” when what people really mean is let’s work towaqrds a majority vote. That really isn’t an option in jury service. We had to all agree unanimously for either a guilty verdict or a not-guilty verdict. No majority rules. And the last one we reached was very difficult as one juror held to their convictions on their view of the evidence. It took a whole day of deliberation to reach a verdict on the last charge alone. that also was exhausting!
(Alas, I have no peers to judge.)
But this particular experience sounds exhausting and upsetting. It is admirable that you hung in and carefully considering the questions presented.
I served as juror on a second degree murder case once. It was a senseless shooting, so we didn’t have all the grisly details you encountered. It is emotionally draining, and it is never just facts. The attorneys try to grap your emotions too. I did my civic duty, but I really don’t care to do it again (although I will). A juror support group isn’t a bad idea. We did convict.
Now I get it.
there were four women
and was promptly kicked off when I answered that I would not be able to deliver a guilty vote for a crime I personnally disagreed with. I know we are suppoosed to have respect for the law (I don’t violate laws that I disgreed with) but as a juror I thought that it was my duty as an American to right a wrong (a law I didn’t agree with) with my jury vote.
prosecutors and judges hate that! A lot of people who strongly believe in it won’t let on during selection so that they can work it from within the system. Luckily, this wasn’t one of those cases.
I also served on a 1st degree murder jury this summer. I was elected foreman. We heard four days of testimony. We acquitted the woman defendant on all counts based on self-defense in a surprisingly short deliberation (about two hours).
Two observations:
1) In the US, we only have three obligations as citizens: pay taxes, serve in the military if drafted, and serve on a jury.
2) I was surprised to see that all twelve jurors agreed on acquital in such a short time. After I was elected foreman, I asked each juror to give their preliminary view and it became apparent that no one was going to convict. Who would have thought that twelve Americans could reach agreement these days, but it happened. Of course, the whack jobs were eliminated in jury selection by the lawyers, so we didn’t have a Beejster, H-Man, Libertad, etc. on the jury.
Thank you very much for serving. My professor is a criminal defense attorney (in death penalty cases, no less), and says that he leaves every trial fundamentally altered from where he was when he started.
He’s also made me a real believer in the power of juries, who almost always work as hard for justice as the judges overseeing the case.
Best wishes for you and your family this Thanksgiving.
I can’t even begin to imagine how hard this was.
You have my admiration for serving jps and appreciate your posting this diary.
Thank you for sharing (and so soon after the fact), and for doing your civic duty by serving on the jury.
I haven’t had the privilege of serving on a jury yet, though I certainly see enough jury summonses living in gambling country. I can’t even begin to imagine essentially being dragged in to a crime like this as, in effect, a “witness after the fact”, complete with all of the forensics and seemier details of the perpetrator’s life brought to life by the prosecution’s presentation of the case.
A holiday, some good loving company, and perhaps a beer to relax by are definitely in order.
Thanks.
I was particularly pleased that you weighed the evidence and despite the jury’s feelings about the horrific nature of the crime, you understood that the Government has to prove their case. I applaud you and the jury for your time and effort.
It truly is one of the greatest rights and responsibilities in this country.
Your insomnia is maybe not normal but understandable in this situation. It is like the mask of nice has been ripped off and you have been looking at raw evil. It shakes our comfortable lives in a terrible realization that this trauma and needless violence won’t ever go away. It is one drug or alcohol rage away from erupting again.
It is our responsibility to hold those who do these deeds accountable. You acted in the best interests of your community and reached as careful a verdict as you could. It is this impulse to good that will eventually help you to get back to sleep again. I don’t know how it works but people who embody the good receive mental protection from the hideous. Those images will always be with your for the rest of your life but they won’t have any power to harm you again.
Thanks again for sharing your experience.
a truly lovely and thoughtful comment. Beautifully said, GG.
Every jury call I’ve ever had would have resulted in major income or caregiving disaster. But I hope to someday.
Thank you for your service to our community.
I am certainly no naif. I know what horrors people are capable of against each other. Even with that, it is still tough to be so closely involved with seeing justice done for the defenseless baby.
In fact, during voir dire, one of the defense lawyers questioned me about a comment that she had made that the state wasn’t representing the baby in this case. And that was true. No one was really representing the baby, except I believe for the twelve of us jurors. The state represented the People of Colorado. The defense lawyers represented the accused (now convicted), but no one was there to represent this innocent life that was extinguished so cruelly.
I don’t know what pathways in the brain are opened or rerouted to arrive at that state but there is scripture that speaks to the Peace of God which surpasses all human understanding.
There is a scene in “To Kill a Mockingbird” where Atticus Finch has to go tell the wife of Tom Robinson that she is now a widow because Tom has been killed by the deputies “attempting to escape”. One of the elders of the black community turns to the children and tells them that some people have to do unpleasant things in this world and their dad is one of them. Unsaid is that they do these unpleasant things because they can and they accept the responsibility of their actions. These heros aren’t abandoned as they grapple with the horrors of our human experience. They are comforted in their trials and sustained in their efforts. I don’t know how it happens but it does.
Take care and I hope you are at peace with your actions.
I think this is a great (but heartbreaking) diary, because it is important for us to hear these stories. As a doctor, I know how hard it is to process difficult situations like the one you describe. At least you were an advocate for the baby, and justice was served. From personal experience, I can tell you this will stay with you forever. It will get better. Talking about it does help. If you need a sympathetic ear, let me know.
As Salaam Alaikum and Happy thanksgiving.
very difficult to hear and see what you did as a juror. And very difficult for law enforcement officers, child protection caseworkers, and others who come in contact with these horrendous cases. Take care of yourself – and I would say this to anyone who is exposed to horrors like this.
Any parent would be horrified to go through the experience you just had. Sharing the raw feelings so soon after is a good lesson for the rest of us and hopefully attenuated the pain you and the other jurors must feel.
The only time I served on a petit jury was 30 years ago. Two and a half days of testimony, 1/2 day of deliberations. Only one juror was reluctant to convict. Not for lack of evidence, but because of pity she felt for the accused who would actually have to face the consequences of their bad judgment.
A few years ago, I served on a grand jury. That is an altogether different experience. One in which you sometimes hear just as heart-rending evidence, but instead of dealing with the feelings of guilt over the responsibility of bringing justice to it’s awful conclusion, grand jurors get a feeling of satisfaction in setting the wheels of justice in motion, whether through an indictment, or by saying “Enough – this is not a crime”.
But back to the issue of your post — an organization worthy of your time that makes a real difference is Families First.
They have helped tens of thousands of Coloradans over the last 25 years, helping to break the cycle of abuse and neglect. They always can use volunteers to either staff their parents hotline (to prevent abuse from happening in the first place), or assist the professional staff at their children’s center by spending time with the kids that have been placed there while the justice system deals with the parents.
In any case, sleep well.
I appreciate the kind words and the specific ideas for ways to engage meaningfully to help people in need.
And to everyone else here, I’d like to apologize for my foul-mouthed outburst at JO yesterday. It’s not the first time I’ve ended up in the gutter here unfortunately. Every now and then someone gets me back into my reflexive mode, cursing like the sailor I used to be. I regret the choice of language and beg all your forbearance.
Happy Thanksgiving to all and enjoy the day!
Although it’s a good indicator of your character.
I’ve lashed out for much less reason.
No matter what JO thinks.
Happy Thanksgiving, jp.
Did you buy a telescope yet?
Happy Thanksgiving to you and yours as well. We just finished eating and my wife is visiting with her friend and I am stopping my kids from playing their video game on my PC so I can check out the blog. Life is good!
No telescope yet. I am now planning that it will be my birthday present to myself in March, although I haven’t given up on Santa getting it for me for Christmas just yet either…
🙂
I’ll let you know when I do. You can tell me where to point it.
JP, you’re a fine human being. I’m sorry you had to view all the evidence in that case. With three girls, not sure i could have done it.
JO…
You are such a sad person. I’d have pity on you, but I just can’t. Shame on you.
I’ve definitely been hugging my boys a little harder since the trial started. It makes me realize again what’s really important in life.
Unfortunately we can’t do anything for those children who will never have a chance to come of age but I think we have a responsibility and an opportunity to appreciate and enjoy our children while they are growing up. If you dwell only in darkness, you will fail to see their smile at being hugged or the excitement of a new effort.
These kids can be special because they have warm and happy homes to live in and they have the advantage of becoming tomorrows leaders. I like to tell people that I am a man with few problems because I have grown children who are honest and kind.
Once they have traversed the birth canal and are breathing on their own, we have this incredible moment to help them lead into the future. Moments of merriment with healthy children is not to missed.
Moments of merriment with healthy children are not to be missed.
I also have come to believe that in life, we do ourselves no favors by excessively demonizing these people who do terrible things. They are not actually monsters in my view, they are just people. In many cases, it seems they hide in plain sight among us, living ordinary lives until the veil is pierced somehow. I think of the BTK sadist who lived a respected life in his community until he was finally caught. No one suspected him.
But when we look specifically for the “others”, the demons among us, we aim wrong and often attack the innocent for the crimes committed by others. it is why I am also so against profiling based on simple and unalterable external attributes. it is easier to do that, but usually wrong and wastes valuable time and energy.
But I am happy to have my family and watch my children grow up to be the men they will become.
I’ve seen quite a bit of in my years but nothing on the level of what you’ve described. I truly appreciate your service and standing up for the victim. That child needed someone to take care of him, his parents failed. You didn’t. You bravely dealt with horrific evidence and gave that little boy justice.
I know you are having trouble sleeping, but you can “sleep easy” knowing you were the one who stood up for that boy.
As for your outburst towards JO: Bravo! His comments towards you and the honorable but difficult service you performed are disgusting. He just couldn’t stand anyone not talking about him. You, on the other hand, deserve all the praise and admiration you’re receiving.
Of course, I’ll still tell you you’re wrong when you’re wrong. So enjoy the admiration!
what language are you speaking EK? I don’t quite understand you…
🙂
Appreciate your kind words and look forward to many future debates with you.