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November 11, 2010 04:47 PM UTC

Veterans Day Open Thread

  • 66 Comments
  • by: Colorado Pols

“As we express our gratitude, we must never forget that the highest appreciation is not to utter words, but to live by them.”

–John F. Kennedy

Comments

66 thoughts on “Veterans Day Open Thread

  1. “But this Veterans Day, I believe we should do more than sing the praises of the bravery and patriotism that our veterans have embodied in the past. We should take this opportunity to re-evaluate how we are treating our veterans in the present.”

    Nick Lampson

    The maneuvering for the 112th Congress is already going on by the GOP, and among their stated goals is the Millionaire Tax Cut. And to pay for it, they’re going to slash a burn the Federal Budget.

    The people I know at the Flagpole of the VA are already feeling that cold, clammy hand of freaks like Paul Rand and other Teapublicans who think the VA budget is the place they can loot to fund it.

    Even with a massive increase in budget and some adult leadership, the VA is still underwater with patient loads that would make civilian clinics whine and cry. And that’s with the tiny amount of OIF/OEF vets trying to use the system – of the 2 million men and women who’ve served in combat, slightly more than 200,000 have gotten out.

    What happens in 2011/2012 when they start getting out en masse?

    So, now that Party that started these wars is back in charge of the Federal Budget. If we want to start hooting about “personal responsibility,” then let’s start on this issue. When you send people to war, you have to take care of them when they get back.

    Economists have estimated that the cost of taking care of vets from just these two conflicts will cost the US $1 TRILLION dollars over the next 40 years. And that’s based on the current usage – never mind the flood that hits in two years.

    Is this the time to start hacking the VA budget down, or is it time to start building up the levees before the flood hits?

    1. To the teabaggers, “personal responsibility” means “I’ve got mine and I’m make sure you don’t get yours, and get your hands off my Medicare and Social Security.”

      Hypocrites.

    2. continue to vote Republican, making it harder for us to elect enough of the kind of people who would most strongly support their needs. We could help them so much more if they would give us more help at the voting booth.

      It’s not just a matter of their votes alone but the fact that they could play a huge roll in making voting Dem the patriotic, troop supporting choice (as it is in any reality based equation) in the eyes of the general public. Organizations like IAVA still face an uphill fight in the message wars, still being won by the Rs who can say that organizations ike the IAVA represent a disgruntled minority because they do represent a minority. We have to find a way to reach troops and vets with the message that they need to stop voting and setting an example for voting against their own interests.

      1. believe the same lies that are told to the rest of the public. Then there are the lies that the Rs craft specificly for vets and active military. Many, if not most, have been convinced by a chain of emails that HCR is going to harm disabled vets and retired military.

        The Rs also have the lie that Clinton and Obama have made them less safe by slashing miltary budgets. In fact, President Obama’s defense spending, to my dismay, is 2-3 times greater than Reagan’s. Clinton’s stayed in the same range as Reagan’s.

      2. Would that voting were a rational act. It isn’t. First and foremost it’s an expression of emotions. I am guessing (since I’m not one of them) that people who choose the military as a career tend towards a set of emotions, or a personality trait perhaps, in which belief in authority ranks high. It’s an emotion / personality trait / personality trait constantly drilled in over and over in learning how to become a soldier.

        The military authority figure says: “We are here to protect … the established order.” Naturally, because authority figures own their authority to the established order.

        Thus, conservatism: maintain the status quo–and that’s an order!  

      3. but it’s still a shame that they themselves make it that much harder for the rest of us to get them the support they deserve, that’s all. Ultimately, if people can be convinced to vote against their own interests they are going to wind up with a government that doesn’t serve them very well. That goes for vet as well as for anybody else.

        That’s why nothing is more important than winning the messaging high ground. Dems won’t do it by being defensive and apologetic every time the right hurls another accusation at them. We need to put money and backbone into a broad and aggressive messaging infrastructure to beat back the right’s and go on offense.  

        And we need to do it Rove style, by going after their alleged strengths, such as Rs being the big tough guys who support the troops.   Unlike Rove, who used this technique so successfully, when it comes to going to bat for the troops and vets we have the advantage of the facts.  We have years worth of Democratic legislation to help our troops and vets and the fact that, over all those the years, that legislation has always been opposed by Rs.  

        But we have to make a very loud, proud, noisy, sustained, well financed effort on that front and on all the issues, something Dems so far have utterly failed to do. Instead, we duck when Rs attack and  beg to be considered not so different from those big strong, patriotic, freedom loving, conservative Rs. Our leaders say we have to do that because we need to win the center but since they let the Rs define “center”, it’s a losing battle. Why can’t they see that? What we really need to do is take control of what “center” means back from the GOP.

        Remember when Barry Goldwater couldn’t win as long as he was tagged with being too conservative? If there’s no sting in being too conservative anymore, only shame in being too liberal, it’s the Dem’s own fault and Dems need to find the guts to turn the tables again.  

    3. They’re not talking about a ‘millionaire tax cut’, they’re talking about stopping the “Obama Tax Hike”.

      You act like the money the top brackets haven’t been paying in taxes already belongs to the government. Is that how you look at all money earned by everyone that’s not already being taken in taxes?

        1. He had to sunset it to get it through Congress.

          Maybe we should reverse the “Kennedy Tax Cuts for the Rich” and go back to a 90% top marginal rate?

          After all, it’s not really “their” money, now, is it?

          1. really screwed over America during the horrible 1950s.

            Hey LB, how do you reconcile these cuts for people whose biggest decision is what yacht they’re going to buy with the trillions of dollars in debt to China that will have to be incurred to pay for them?

            1. It’s not the lack of taxation that’s the problem, it’s wasting money on dumb shit like porkulus and Obamacare.  And the Dept. of Education, and GM and Chrysler, and Nancy Pelosi’s 737, and…

              1. The tax cuts are far more expensive. And as far as pork goes, look at how willing the GOP is to give up their ear marks. DeMint is going to fail at banning them, and the spending isn’t going to stop. Tax cuts are the same as spending when it comes to the debt.

                You can’t call for a permanent extension of the most expensive government policy of all time and then expect to balance the budget at the same time by piecemeal cutting of “wasteful” spending. I’m not saying that wasteful spending doesn’t exist, but the math doesn’t add up. Especially if the Republicans continue to spend, which is looking more and more likely.

                1. Tax cuts are certainly not the most expensive governmental policy of all time – entitlements are.  Social Security, Medicare – these things need to be fixed, or it won’t matter how much money government takes from us.

                  1. But these tax cuts, combined with even more expanded entitlements by Bush (Medicare Part D) have buried us under this debt. The Republicans have no plans for fixing spending, entitlements, or the debt. They care far more about making sure millionaires continue to get a break.

          2. …if you want to start pointing fingers at a political party for spending left and right, start with that and add two wars.

            The top 2% can get a tax cut, just not the “No Millionaire Left Behind” plan that Bush lavished on his base. Don’t make me repost the chart showing the dif between the two plans.

            And NO, I don’t give McConnell’s BS statement about how it hurts small bizniz a shred of credibility. It affects less than 35 of small businesses, which happen to be the one who make a bazillion dollars.

          3. The rest of this discussion is irrelevant. The Bush tax cuts were as temporary as the one-time rebates for $250 each.

            The law is the law. Why can’t Republicans respect that?

            If Congress passes a law saying that November 12 is International Laughing Boy Day, are you going to complain on November 13 when it’s not anymore?

          4. As pointed out by Ralphie (elsewhere).

            So, are we now agreed that whatever Obama decides, he is merely modifying the The Great and Unprecedented Bush Tax Hike of 2011 as signed and approved by GW Bush?

          5. You can’t turn letting a tax cut sunset as planned into a tax hike. You also can’t get away from the fact that it was never intended to create jobs. It was originally sold as the remedy to the government having too much of our money because of the big surplus. You also can’t get away from the fact that a decade has demonstrated the it does not, as it never was intended to, create good jobs for the middle class.  In fact the middle class is much worse off.

            To sum up, the top bracket tax cut doesn’t lead to jobs, never was intended to lead to jobs, has demonstrated no benefit to anyone except the recipients who were fine under the Clinton era rates, is costing billions that may as well be flushed down the toilet and is increasing the gap between the top two tenths of a percent and the average American to a size which is not compatible with our political system’s survival. Letting it die is letting it die and return to its previous still historically very low level, not a tax hike.  

    4. $25 billion a year.  It’s not chump change, but it is affordable for a nation that recognizes its duty to those citizens who risked their lives and health in our defense.

      No part of the budget is or should be free of scrutiny and if better and less expensive ways to provide the necessary services can be found, well, great.  But this is an obligation that the taxpayers can and must meet.

       The men and women who served our nation with honor must be treaded honorably.   Yet, as the bonus marchers learned when they were so churlishly treated by MacArthur,those obligations have often been repudiated in the past.  Such dishonorable treatment of honorable men and women must not happen again.

  2. Once again we have yet another story about computer problems holding up aid to the poor. I’m posting this to ask you to give me your full consideration for your I.T. transition committee.

    I can’t waive a magic wand and make it all better. But I’ve worked and managed in the I.T. industry my whole life and I have consistently delivered – quickly & completely. I know the approaches that won’t work (the State has tried most of those). I know what to look for in the people you hire. And I know when others are feeding you a line of B.S.

    The state can have an I.T. infrastructure that works, works well, and is implemented for a lot less than the big companies tell you it will cost.

    Plus, it will give everyone in the blogosphere a chance to tear me apart for not delivering instant results. Can’t put a price on that 🙂

    1. had been filled.  So, I guess you and I both lost out on that.  Or we can say that Hickenlooper and his team are losing out on our expertise in our respective fields.

      1. Jason Crow (US Army Ranger, OEF vet and someone who used the GI Bill to get a law degree at DU) and MG Andy Love (NORAD Cdr, Fighter jockey, and counsel to the Secy of the VA.)

        ..and while I didn’t get a chair, I am going to pester the crap out of both of them to address PTSD/TBi in returning vets and National Guardsmen returning from deployment.  

        1. I am going to pester the crap out of both of them to address PTSD/TBi in returning vets and National Guardsmen returning from deployment.  

          And count on you to let the rest of us know how and when we can help.  Letters, phone calls, whatever.

          1. I will produce study results, that can remain unread and sitting on a shelf somewhere, at lower costs than anyone else, thus saving taxpayers tens of thousands of dollars.

            You’re welcome, Colorado!

            1. on which all RFPs are published for state agencies.  In this era of “I will work for less!” might be a good place for all of us to register and start submitting low bids for some important state work!

  3. Joe Biden, John Boehner salute veterans

    Incoming Speaker John Boehner joined Vice President Joe Biden for a wreath-laying ceremony at Arlington National Cemetery’s Tomb of the Unknowns this morning in honor of Veterans Day.

    “Today, we pause to pay proper respect to the heroes who have donned the uniform of our country and – along with their families – sacrficied so much so that we may enjoy the blessings of freedom,” the Ohio Republican said.

    The wreath-laying began at 11 a.m., followed by a ceremony at the cemetery’s Memorial Amphitheater. Boehner was to attend the ceremony at the amphitheater, where Biden was scheduled to deliver remarks.

    President Barack Obama, who is in South Korea, participated in last year’s wreath-laying at Arlington.

    http://www.politico.com/news/s

    And to pre-empt the meme that Obama spent Veterans Day shooting hoops, at a Mosque or at a bar….

    President Obama marks Veterans Day in South Korea, blasts North Korea’s nuclear ambitions

    President Obama celebrated Veterans Day half a world away, saluting U.S. troops who defended South Korea during its war against the communist North.

    But from a U.S. military base just outside of Seoul, the President also marked the day with a scathing warning to North Korea. He said the country’s nuclear ambitions will only lead to more isolation and less security.

    http://www.nydailynews.com/new

    I do see that the cocks on Faux News are already hooting about Obama being AWOL on Vets Day. Please refer to above and kiss my crippled ass…

  4. I just watched the ceremony at the tomb of the unknown soldier.  Very moving.  It brought back memories of classmates and friends that didn’t come back.

    I agree with you Sarge.  We need to treat our vets with the honor they deserve and, more importantly, give them the support they need.  It is our national shame if we do not.

    1. I could only wish that they had the “Thank You President Obama and….  ” at the end as well as the beginning.  

      You know how short people’s attention span can be… by the end they may have actually forgotten WHO these wonderful people were actually thanking.

  5. Mrs. Obama.

    (AP)  First Lady Michelle Obama surprised a group of U.S. servicemen and women based in Germany on Thursday, jumping in to serve them steaks at a special Veterans Day meal.

        1. at the 6th Cav Brigade (Air Combat) mess hall. Every Friday was outdoor grilled steak day for lunch. The lines looked like opening night for a Star Wars movie, but it was well worth the wait.

          The rest of the food still sucked…

          1. Sarge,

            First, thank you for your service to our country.

            Second, if we just have to talk about food, I have a food story.

            I spent 29 days on the MSTS Upshur in Dec of 67.  They served us something called “sea steak” quite often. I think it was some kind of corned beef, but it sure made me appreciate the Army food at Ft Bragg. It didn’t help that most of us were seasick from time to time.

          2. I separate my basic training from my regular Air Force food life.  In basic training I was in a “show” squadron which is where the AF took VIP’s touring Lackland. We had great chow most of the time.  

            One day we even had squab. I cannot speak to the coincidence of these events, I will let other guess. For some reason a huge flock of pigeons moved in to the barracks edges, the barracks were not the old WWII wood two stories. These were really nice two story buildings of brick, block and cement.  As the show squadron we had a lot of visitors.  

            Everyday one or more of the airman of my flight would get hit by pigeon droppings. Anyone who has been through basic training knows that if your uniform is messed up it is not good for your health or the rest of the day.  We complained, the TI’s complained after their campaign hats were bombed.  Nothing happened.  

            One day one of the VIP brass went by and was bombed.

            The next day we went out on an unplanned excursion for many hours. Anybody who has been through basic training knows what an excursion is.

            We returned late that evening and immediately noticed all the pigeons were gone. The next evening our dinner was squab.

      1. I actually don’t think I’ve lost a bet here on Pols (until the playoffs this coming year – oy). I’m owed something like three dinners, beers, hookers and biker speed.

        I’d rather just get together with you guys for beers. You guys are my friends, an I don’t feel like sticking it to any of you.  

        1. Or do you want to do a special stick-it-to-us-losers beer-gorging?

          I don’t think I’ve won a bet on Pols, though RSB is the only other person I’ve made one with.

  6. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/

    Obama wanted a permanent extension for the middle class and no extension for the rich.

    Republicans want a permanent extension for the rich.

    I suspect the compromise position in the end is that tax cuts for the middle class will be eliminated and the tax cuts for the rich will be increased.

    Politics is all theater.

  7. I assume it’s legal to quote and link to the Toronto Star?

    U.S. Representative John Shimkus, possible future chairman of the Congressional committee that deals with energy and its attendant environmental concerns, believes that climate change should not concern us since God has already promised not to destroy the Earth. [emphasis added]

    and

    “I believe that’s the infallible word of God, and that’s the way it’s going to be for his creation,” Shimkus said.

    While I have your attention regarding the fallacy of infallibility, I was just wondering if there is anything in this Bible about the rich and taxes? You know, something along the lines of:

    Matthew 12:42-44.

    And there came a certain poor widow, and she threw in two mites…. And he called unto him his disciples, and saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That this poor widow hath cast more in, than all they which have cast into the treasury: For all they did cast in of their abundance; but she of her want did cast in all that she had, even all her living.

    Just asking. Or is it goose/gander?

    I guess I really don’t feel reassured, Rep. Shimkus.

    1. For it is far easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.

        John voices similar sentiments.

      In contrast, you will search the scriptures in vain for the phrase “marginal tax rates.”  

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