Weekend Open Thread

“The best revenge is to be unlike him who performed the injury.”

–Marcus Aurelius

32 Community Comments, Facebook Comments

  1. Duke Cox says:

    It's like this…

    Some will remember that there were those among us who saw the Imperial Orange coming. Disgust permeates my thoughts.

    Did everyone but my Cat and I forget that one of the first things our Illegitimate President did was spend an hour alone with Vladimir Putin?

    Don't you get it? The Dems are still convinced this is politics. For The T***p crime syndicate, it is, and has been, combat…from the very beginning.

    This is war, folks. A war the 1%, Freemarket, Christian, consortium of hateful greedheads (the GOP, that is) has no intention of losing. We cannot win this election with negotiation. This ain't politics, and the sooner you corporate loving mugwumps wake up and realize Joe Biden, Mayor Pete, and anyone else beholden to the corporate dollar cannot/will not take our nation where it needs to go.

    I have a message for every working stiff out there who reads it. 

    We have been here before…

    Franklin Roosevelt gave us a new deal…it was so good for the working people of this country we capitalized it and called it "the New Deal". Ever since, the wealthy have been trying to get back to the old deal. Trump is their champion. His cabinet is full of billionaires.

    Don't kid yourself…this ain't no negotiation.

  2. ParkHill says:

    People keep throwing numbers around on M4A, but they are pretty much speculation.

    Opponents focus on tax increases while ignoring premium decreases.

    Supporters point out that removing private insurance profits saves 20-25%, and also eliminates a large amount of paper pushing to deal with different insurance companies. (The average doctors office probably has a staff of 3 or 4 just to deal with insurance.) We haven't touched how transparency and negotiating power will reduce HEALTH care costs.

    Aside from speculation, we have over a dozen countries with varying mechanisms for funding health care. There is a surprising graphic halfway down this article comparing Private vs Public health care spending in a number of different countries. The striking thing is that public spending in the US is around 8% of GDP, approximately the same amount as other countries. At the same time private spending in the US is about 8%. In most other countries, private spending is 3% of GDP. 

    The ONLY way to beat back the cost of healthcare is M4A. I believe in the slippery slope, so there is no need to do M4A instantly. The magic wand is very simple: create a robust Public Option, and M4A will be inevitable. Republicans know this in their hearts of darkest hearts, and explains the drive to destroy Obamacare.

    • JohnInDenver says:

      “The health care system” is nonsensical — our country has NO system, but a weird conglomeration of government, for-profit, and non-profit organizations handling everything from education of providers, to licensure. to development of practice standards, to provision of care, to payment, to setting taxation/fees/private payments to support the people and organizations involved.

      Even Medicare, the basis for plans about a consistent system, has substantial variations within it, with options about what is covered, how it is paid for, how much is paid to providers, and more. 

      There have been and will be changes in what was done, so there is no constant to compare to.  Whatever is created will undergo changes, too, so there is no constant to use to base expected costs on, either.

      Whatever is said in a Presidential debate is, at most, going to be a recommendation to Congress.  Specifics of the policies will be set by Congress and signed (or vetoed) by the President. Details will be implemented by appointees and civil servants, as interpreted by varied medical professionals and their support staffs who can touch and talk to patients. 

      Why the candidates and their campaign staff spend so much time on nuances escapes me. Why anyone expects firm details about how they and their loved ones will be treated and what it will cost baffles me. 

      The debate has done one thing — more and more people see health care as a right and expect the society as a whole to be responsible for it.  Fewer and fewer people are willing to expect a purely personal responsibility or personal plus charitable responsibilities for care.

    • harrydoby says:

      The other forgotten benefit of M4A is that it would likely allow wages to once again rise.  Employer-sponsored health benefits have been a hidden weight depressing wages for decades.

      study in the Journal of Health Economics looked at what happened in Massachusetts after it enacted an employer health insurance mandate in 2006. It found that the $6,100 annual employer cost of coverage was nearly perfectly offset by lower wages. Another study in the Journal of Labor Economics found that married women with workplace health insurance coverage have wages that are lower by about the same amount as their employers pay for that coverage, relative to married women with no such coverage option.

    • Voyageur says:

      The problem is that Bernie will never get the chance to show his pragmatism.  Trumpstink will crush him, regain the house and keep the Senate.  That means at least one more Hitler Youth appointee on the Supreme Court.

       "Socialism gonna kill your Momma" is a terrible slogan.

      be afraid, Democrats.  Be very afraid.

      • RepealAndReplace says:

        No matter who the candidate is, he or she will be called a "socialist" by Trump.

        It is much more difficult to deny the label if you have not placed it on yourself. Even Elizabeth Warren has had the good sense to call herself a capitalist with regulation (or words to that effect).

        And don't even get me started on, "Well, this could be a great opportunity to educate the public on what socialism (the Danish health care system) and what it is not (the gulag)." We don't have the luxury of using this election cycle to try to enlighten people on 19th century economic theories. 

        We just need tp win!

        • DENependent says:

          Is being tagged as a socialist a bigger problem than being smeared as an out of touch member of the elite?

          Fair or not, both Buttigieg and Biden are going to be targeted for their ties. Much like former Senator Clinton's speeches to Goldman-Sach. Buttigieg for his McKinsey Consulting work and Biden for his paid speech gigs.

          The fact that all candidates have a line of attack against them does not mean it will work or that we can guess who is weak ahead of time. Did we not all say when Trump won the nomination that anyone with a pulse could defeat him in 2016? How'd that work out?

          Any of the Democrats could prove as teflon as Bill Clinton despite the attacks. Conversely any of them could attract negative stories like velcro.

      • MADCO says:

        "Bernie Sanders passed more roll call amendments in a Republican Congress than any other member."


        Yes- Trump hates Sanders.
        Yes – the general is going to be hard, no matter who the D nominee is.

        Mainstream media hype and their ratings chase is not the best measure of electability.


      • The realist says:

        Democrats need to go on offense against Trump instead of each other. SHOW you are capable of attacking him the way he attacks, weakening the way he weakens, shaming the way he shames. If you demonstrate you can go toe to toe with Trump, you will rise above your Primary opponents.

        What Democrats don’t need to do is constantly try to find ways to defend against Trump’s attacks. Attack HIM! Attack the GOP! Use their own stuff against them. Trump and the GOP are taking away our freedom and liberty, and destroying us with massive debt and deficits. Paint a picture of what life will look like under a continuing authoritarian state.

        And I’ll add: Attack all GOP-ers running for election/re-election for their support of DictatorTrump. Use the presidential and congressional failures AGAINST the GOP – everywhere.

        • Duke Cox says:

          +1000 👍👍👍👍

        • JohnInDenver says:

          kinda sounds like the Bloomberg ads I've seen. Stress Trump's mal-administration and deficiencies on "kitchen table" issues, and promise to work with Democrats to do something better.

          • DENependent says:

            As long as Bloomberg sticks to that no matter who the nominee is, that’s all to the good. If he starts making noises about 3rd party run if Warren or Sanders looks like the nominee he’s just another Republican wanting to dictate the terms of their takeover of the Democrats after they ruined the Republican Party.

            “Nice party you have here. Nice party. Be a REAL shame if you didn’t let us billionaires run it because ‘den someones might have to burn it down to save it.”

    • MADCO says:

      PH – yep

      Picture corporate decision maker:
      We could pay what we pay now, and keep our deductible plan with 20% coinsurance and the HR company we contract (outsource) to has offered a very low fee (which we get to deduct) to ‘manage’ the HSA for the employees who get to contribute their own pre-tax $,
      We could pay about 80% of what we pay now and our employees get the public option – which costs them less too …
      Of course, we always have the option of keeping some no/low deductible plan for the executive team.

      Of course the C-suites of shareholder driven America are going to take the low cost option. They kinda have to.

      My employer health plan is actually great (if you don’t mind a tight network of acceptable providers). But many people currently described as loving their current plan would love a lower cost plan with mobility if they could get it.

      An incremental slippery slope is all it would take.

      I have had government run single payer health care or insurance all of my adult life, as have millions of other American veterans. None of us want to give it up.)

  3. itlduso says:

    My new motto:  When I do it, it’s not a crime.  

    It’s very liberating!

  4. itlduso says:

    Today’s lib-splaining lesson:  Remember when several of you guys wanted to remove the VA governor for a decades old black face picture?  And also remove the lt. governor for, I forget what,  which would have left the GOP attorney general as governor?  Well, VA passed a nifty piece of legislation that eliminates a state holiday celebrating Robert E Lee and Stonewall Jackson and replaces it with a state holiday on Election Day.  Wouldn’t have happened if anyone had listened to you, and you know who you are.  Probably the same ones promoting Sanders or Warren today.  

    • MADCO says:

      Well I feel splained.  good one.

      Didn't VA also just pass the ERA?

      I am not voting in the NH primary – but if I was, I would vote for Bennet. He's tied with Klobuchar and Bloomberg in delegates so far.


      "Half of likely Democratic primary voters (50%) say it is more important to have a nominee who has the best chance of defeating President Donald Trump in November than to have a nominee who is closest to them on the issues (42%). Not surprisingly, 58% of Democrats likely to vote in the primary say their priority is electability. In contrast, 51% of independents likely to cast a ballot in the Democratic primary believe it is more important to nominate a candidate who aligns with their views on the issues."

      Ds all want electability – if only someone would tell us what that means, esp in PA, MI, WI and AZ.

      But independents are screwing it up with values.


  5. Voyageur says:

    Amy keeps on coming.  New Hampshire could end up Buttigieg,  Get Off My Lawn, Amy, Warren and Biden.  That would kill Warren and Biden, give huge boost to Amy.

  6. kwtree says:

    What do you call 50 aging  white (mostly) Democrats packed into a Jeffco Dems office on a snowy February day? Caucus Training! Also….

    Trouble….and/ or grassroots  democracy. Either way, it shows intense interest in the upcoming Precinct caucus March 7.  

    Various candidates had petitions circulating outside the main conference room. Trish Zornio was there asking for people to caucus for her. My fave, Lorena Garcia, is petitioning onto the ballot. 

  7. harrydoby says:

    New York loves Trump (not!)


  8. harrydoby says:

    Nancy Pelosi tells it like it is in no uncertain terms:

    “Their argument was only that Congress and the American people have no right to stop him from using his power to cheat in our elections,” said Pelosi, who sparked anger among conservatives on Tuesday when she tore up a copy of Trump’s State of Union speech.

    Pelosi said Senate Republicans had “embraced this darkest vision of power: that if the president believes his reelection is good for the country, he can then use any means necessary to win, with no accountability or consequences.”

    “In declaring their loyalty to the president over our Constitution, Republicans have made a farce of the old boast that the U.S. Senate is the greatest deliberative body in the world,” she added, warning that “because of the Republican Senate’s betrayal of the Constitution, the president remains an ongoing threat to American democracy.”


  9. harrydoby says:

    David Leonhardt of the New York Times reiterates our ultimate goal:

    The current moment, when everybody is wearing a veil of ignorance about the nomination, is a good time for Democrats to ask themselves a question: If the primaries don’t turn out as you hope, will you still do everything in your power to deny Trump a second term?

    Yes, the candidates have their differences. But they have much bigger similarities. If elected, every single Democratic presidential candidate would act to slow climate change, raise taxes on the rich, reduce gun deaths, expand voting rights, lower health care and education costs, protect abortion access, enforce civil-rights laws, appoint progressive judges, rebuild overseas alliances and stop treating the Justice Department as a personal enforcer. The moderates are running to the left of Barack Obama, and the progressives would be constrained by Congress.

    The alternative, of course, is truly radical. Many Democrats know all this, yet they still get so caught up in the passions of the primary campaign that they risk helping Trump.

    Don’t let your preferred candidate make this a personal battle to the death of all other rivals.


Leave a Reply

Comment from your Facebook account

You may comment with your Colorado Pols account above (click here to register), or via Facebook below.