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August 18, 2010 07:17 AM UTC
89 Comments
A lot more to this than that little snippet of video shows.
The cops have guns, therefore they have all the power. The cops have a badge, therefore they should be able to respect the people they are PAID to protect. The cops are trained in crowd control, the average person is not trained in cop control. The cops are supposed to be able to bring a situation under control without beating people for talking on a cell phone, even if the man was talking shit about them. In America, we are allowed to do that. There was no need for force. No one did anything but piss the cops and their egos off.
I don’t care what happened before this “little snippet”. The cops are thugs.
The brotherhood of police bullshit is just that. Us against them. That attitude made sure no one won in 1990s Los Angeles.
That first video… without sound, I can’t tell if your take is accurate or if the guy was being a provocative ass. He didn’t look like he was cooperating, at any rate, and the cops only punched him a couple of times. Not my idea of “excessive force,” IF he was being an ass. Interfering with the police is against the law, and I can just as easily infer that that’s happening as I could anything else.
The second one, though… That looks more like a case of excessive force.But I think it would be helpful to know more about that, too.
even a provocative one? I thought we had protected speech in America. If what I say can get me assaulted by the police, then that would no longer be true.
The police have limits on their use of force, appropriately so. If someone is resisting arrest, they are able to subdue him or her until they can restrain the arrestee. They are not at liberty to beat them senseless because they are upset with the person’s assiness.
What I find interesting is that on the one hand we want our officers to be human; to listen, make compassionate decisions when possible, bend the rules a bit under some circumstances.
Then, in other scenarios, we insist that they be robotic automatons. No feelings, no emotional reactions. “Yes, ma’am, no ma’am.”
As long as we have the need for policing, and we use humans, we will have incidents like these regardless of the training or culture or location. You can’t have a cute little baby without diapers to change.
What we need is ongoing vigilance, not this type of over the top THUGS broad brushing. Nor second guessing year old cases.
About a year ago here in Sarasota a city officer was videoed kicking an illegal immigrant (it was determined later) while in custody. The poop really hit the fan especially after it was found out that the city tried to buy off silence from the guy for something like $500. The chief eventually resigned because of the loss of confidence in the community and with his officers.
So, things happen. And they often can be appropriately dealt with. But (late) hysteria is not the answer.
and therefore it’s no longer fair game?
From this distance, both geographically and the event’s particulars, I don’t know if it was covered up.
If it was, we definitely need to find out how, why, and who. Was it intentional? Was it bad policy? How come The Daily Fishwrapper didn’t know about this?
We need to know more before coming unhinged. There might well be reason to become unhinged, but there may not be, too.
of course people are human. Of course some make mistakes. But also, some are just really evil too. Police brutality which is covered up and excused is the latter example, not the case you are making. Police can and do do their jobs without resorting to unnecessary brutality to do it.
That’s my point, maybe I just wasn’t clear enough. Officers and institutions will are human, therefore, these things will happen.
It’s not an excuse, it’s the reality that we have to work within.
If we think that doing more psychological screening, more training, and then we will hit a police brutality Nirvana, we are deluding ourselves. There will always be the “exceptional” officer, or the “exceptional” circumstances, sooner or later. You can quadruple screening and training and you might eliminate another 10% of incidences. The law of diminishing returns applies.
Far better we acknowledge, which is NOT tolerate, and then keep up the heat, as it were, and by example let it be known that there is no tolerance.
the cops should have been fired and charged with felony assault as any other citizen would have then, correct?
The IA investigation and thew DOS handling obviously weren’t even up to Hick’s standards as he is turning the investigation over to the FBI.
The officers were doing a job which we hired them for, which puts a different set of legal and moral standards on them. It’s like they are allowed to speed under set circumstances, you and I never are.
“Excessive force” is a mighty gray area a lot of the time. A given force at one time might be excessive, another time, not. It’s real easy to be a Monday morning quarterback when your ass isn’t on the line and the only adrenaline running is in your anger a day or a year later.
When I was younger I always presumed the cops were in the wrong. That’s partly a result of VN war protests and my politics. Now that I’m older, better educated in critical thinking, and hopefully wiser, I see that little in life is black and white. I also now see police officers as not some faceless monolith but human beings with spouses and usually, not always, but usually doing a decent job.
Anyway, none of us are experts here and it’s a very emotional topic with lots of knee jerk reactions on both sides.
It sounds like calling in the FBI is right. Maybe late, but good.
Beating the shit out of young revelers in LoDo with a truncheon is not the same as facing down some violent gang-bangers with bullets flying. If police can’t exercise that level of judgment and discretion, they don’t deserve to wear the badge.
If your age and wisdom have led you to the conclusion that rationalizing brutality is the way to go, I’ll stay foolish then and hold police to proper standards of behavior as we all are.
The gray area to me is when we justify just about anything the police do because their job is tough and they put their asses on the line for us everyday is crap. Even our military has to abide by strict standards of conduct in executing their missions. And their stress levels day in and day out in a combat zone are far greater than anything our police forces have to endure in our relatively peaceful society.
Same black and white as Bennet vs. Romanoff, I see.
But I watched the videos and read the reports. It is black and white. I saw him deck that kid unprovoked. It is not a crime to watch police do their work. It is not a crime to videotape police doing their work. It is not a crime to tell someone on the other end of a cell phone what you are witnessing. It is a crime to assault someone unprovoked. That is the crime here, and it was committed by the police.
….I am referring to excessive force issues generally and you are focusing on the one incident.
Neither is being provocative, at least not in that situation.
But I don’t know what happened. What did that man do, exactly? A silent film doesn’t tell me anything more. I don’t know if the cops had cause or not. But if they did, then I saw nothing in the first video to say “police brutality!”
The second video – as I said, I want more before I make a judgment, but that looks a lot more like excessive and unnecessary force to me. And yes, the panning away is fucked up and smacks of coverup.
called a sap. The kid was on the phone with his father letting him know what was happening as his father is a cop in Pueblo. I find it really hard to believe this kid was being overly provocative or insulting towards the cops other than to tell his father what the cops were doing to his friend whom they had already roughed up.
As for the Manager of Public Safety, this Ron Parea character – he helped try to cover this up. I find it strange that the cell phone the kid was on was never recovered. The only discipline Parea gave the cops was for “inaccuracies” in their reports then he has the balls to say “they did not lie”!!
The Denver Disciplinary Review Board and the independent monitor decided both officers should be fired for using unnecessary force. Unfortunately, only Perea can fire a cop in Denver. Not even Hickenlooper has the power to get rid of a bad cop in his own city. Chief of Police can’t either. I think Hick did the right thing calling in the FBI, but even THEY can’t overrule Perea.
9News’ Jace Larson & Deborah Sherman did a great piece on this story.
http://www.9news.com/news/arti…
I do not, however, agree that all Denver cops are THUGS. The police serve a very real, often thankless, frequently life-threatening service. I would caution Whiskey from lumping all cops into the same category as these two. Most cops just want to serve and protect. Most I’ve met believe in what they’re doing and are as disgusted with this type of behavior as we are, if not more. I will never in any way make excuses for, nor defend the two cops in that video. I will always defend cops in general.
Please read my comments thoroughly before replying to me.
so any police brutality can be condoned if they claim interference. The issue is not the actions oft he by-standers, it is the overreaction of the police and the concomitant brutality of the police. That is the real question here.
READ. Read what I wrote. Reply to what I wrote. If you can’t do that, then don’t reply to my comments.
the second video. You and I agree on that I think.
Again I apologize if you felt like my comment was somehow an attack aimed at you. It wasn’t at all. I respect you and your opinions which I happen to agree with most of the time, but certainly not all.
I will challenge you on your comment that “being provocative” isn’t free speech. It absolutely is. We all have the right to be as provocative as we want. We all have the right to stand on the street corner and give speeches on how corrupt or horrible we think the cops, or politicians, or priests, or bunnies or whatever we want are. That’s what free speech is all about.
I do agree that interfering with the police is not free speech. The tough part is finding the line between the two.
You responded to my response to jpsandscl. Hopefully you saw that my actual response to you wasn’t that heated.
As far as the word “provocative” goes, I was specifically thinking of provocative actions, like interfering with police, being verbally abusive or threatening – things like that. Not necessarily standing off to the side and saying things like “fuck da police!” That’s not wise speech, but it’s free speech.
on police and their ability to use force to subdue anyone, you said:
It appears to me that you are arguing that even if you somehow interfere with police, then they are justified in using any force level they deem appropriate in their sole judgment.
My comment was that police have to have limits on the use of force whether or not they have a justifiable arrest and whether or not they have to restrain someone. Maybe you were arguing a different point and didn’t mean to respond to my main point then?
There is nothing in my comments that can be construed as arguing that police “are justified in using any force level they deem appropriate in their sole judgment.”
I was speaking specifically to the first video. Since I have no other evidence to go on, I have to watch this video to tell me what went down. And what I see is a guy who, for some unknown reason, the police wanted to arrest. I saw that guy resist, and I saw him get hit a couple of times. I did not see anything excessive in this situation – they didn’t get out their clubs and beat him with scores of blows. I didn’t see them get out their guns or tasers or mace. I didn’t see them hit him while he was just standing there, minding his own business. Calling this “police brutality” or “excessive force” or “thuggery” makes a mockery of those terms, as they are real problems within every major and most smaller police departments everywhere.
I do believe police are within their rights to use force when the situation calls for it. And let me emphasize it once more – we (including you) don’t know any more about this incident than what the tape shows. I’m reserving judgment until I learn more about this incident (specifically, what did that guy say and what did the cops say).
If I didn’t address your main point, that’s only fair since you didn’t address mine either.
in fact, in the first video, after they subdue the man walking his dog, they then further assaulted him by shoving his head to the ground and kneeling on it. I imagine that caused a great deal of pain and possibly some injury. He was already sitting on the ground in handcuffs. Can you please justify that action Aristotle? Was it because of something he said do you suppose? If so, sorry, but the police can’t brutalize whomever they feel like for anything they say.
… neither of us can or cannot say exactly what was recorded. The only thing for sure is that the guy wasn’t fully cooperating with the cops. Was it because he was a punk interfering with police, or a harassed citizen expressing frustration? Without any additional facts, your gut-based interpretation is no more legitimate than mine.
THere’s a reason the City Manager didn’t fire these guys.
I’m going to go look now, so I’m not asking for links, just confirmation that you (or anyone who wants to jump in here) have seen some actual news coverage.
THere’s a reason the City Manager didn’t fire them.
I’ll be totally shocked if the FBI recommends firing them.
Because the City Manger didn’t fire them is proof they did not act criminally? Come on, LB… How many cases of police corruption cover ups do you want to talk about? People in law enforcement support law enforcement, blindly. It is the us vs them mentality. These guys were punks anyway, right? It is like an all male jury convicting a man for raping a hooker.
The phenomenon of 21st Century is digital video and bloggers. There are only so many things that could have happened before or after a video tape.
I guess there could be a conspiracy on the part of the dog walker and LoDo partier that they set up the cops knowing they were on tape. I guess the guy walking the dog rushes over, pushes the cop and tries to free the guy getting a ticket? Or he went over and slapped the cop? He then could have ran back in the line of the camera, acted like he didn’t do it, knowing the cop would react on tape. I guess that is possible.
Or
The kid on the phone slapped the cop when they were arresting his friend. After hiding his gun, cocaine and gang colors and then ran back in the line of the cameras knowing the cop was going to react, after calling his cop father. I guess that could have happened. Since he grew up in a law enforcement household, I guess he could have been quick and smart enough to set up the cops.
I think we can see from the video that was PROBERLY not the case.
You are asking me to acknowledge that I don’t see what I am seeing. Without giving away the case, please just give an EXAMPLE of what could have happened, because I just don’t understand.
Please give me one possible scenario that would make the tape right for the cops?
To have the FBI involved. Hopefully you can wait to cast the entire department as thugs until after they investigate.
Did the OP use those exact words somewhere and I missed it?
In fairness to the cops that really do try and do the right thing, I changed my title.
The sad thing is it hard for me to feel good about the police, when you have no idea what kind of cop is pulling you over or approaching you if you help out another citizen. To me this is the real tragic issue. You should feel good when a cop walks up to you. You should feel like the bad guys are gone. Unfortunately, so many times in this country the bad guys are carrying a gun and a badge.
or are you talking out your *?
The first guy sticks the camera in the cops face. While that may not be illegal it probably isn’t the brightest move in the world. In other words not so much defending the cops as saying the guy probably was not too bright to engage them in that manner. Now the second case looks nuts. The guy is standing away from them talking on the phone and the cop just smacks him. Defintily think the second case is more clear cut and would support that those guys should not be on the force. Now that said the thing that is disturbing about the first case is one of the officers still intimidating the guy days later. That is crap.
.
In my limited imagination, I am having trouble imagining – second video, young man watching his cousin get beat down – I am not able to imagine any verbal abuse that could possibly justify what I saw on the video.
The kid could be insulting the cop’s manhood, bragging about sexually assaulting his daughter, or threatening to report the Police to …. who do you report abusive cops to, anyway ?
Nothing verbal, in my mind, would justify the beatdown he got.
So, use your imagination, and tell me what might justify a ‘roid raging bull in police blue.
Or, if you’ve got the inside dope, gimme a hint.
Otherwise, I have to say that Perea should already be in prison for whitewashing this, and Hick under federal indictment for conspiracy to deny civil rights.
WLJ, I don’t blame the police union. That’s their job, sticking up for each other. I’ve been a shop steward, and I mostly was helping defend coworkers that I wish had been fired, when I was in hearings. Kinda like an attorney has to give a client he knows to be a scumbag the best defense he can.
But city management – Safety Manager and Mayor – they are the ones who need to be held to account in this situation.
If Dems could see straight, Hick’s shot at the Governorship would be worse than Danny Maes’.
.
All cops are thugs, right? Even that kid’s dad in Pueblo. He’s a thug too right? AND they’re all out of control! Look at what they’re getting away with! Oh wait….they’re not getting away with this stuff.
Give me a break.
In the first video, the guy was starting to act aggressively toward the officers. Watch his hand gestures, this wasn’t a polite conversation. The cops were wrong in attempting to take his cell phone and demanding his ID. The whole thing could have been avoided had both sides acted a little calmer. But to say those evil cops beat the crap out of him is bullshit. When a cop uses excessive force, you’re not going to be sitting on the ground calmly talking to him afterwords.
The 2nd video is of an incident that occurred in April of 2009. That’s over 1 year ago! Since then, the incident was reviewed, the cops were punished and the city has paid out money to the DeHerrerra family in a federal lawsuit. I can see the DPD police union having an issue with the Mayor calling in the FBI now.
The “cops were punished”? By losing pay for three days, for lying on their report, ind you, not for beating the crap out of a citizen who made a phone call. What’s the statute of limitations on being a bad cop?
but over 1 year ago, this incident was reviewed by internal affairs and the independent citizen monitor of DPD. Since Denver got sued, the city attorney’s office knew about it. Why wasn’t the FBI called in then? Instead they’re being called now that the video went public.
Thinks all the cops should be fired. He’s insane, and a jackass.
According to newspaper reports, he rarely recommends firing. In fact, community groups have complained that he’s too close to the police. You just made shit up.
I wish I could tell you some stories.
Trust me on this one.
Because you know? Why don’t you ask MADCO, or PR, or MoTR if they think I might have some insight into Rosenthal that you all might not.
Does Laughing Boy have insight into Rosenthal that the rest of us lack? And does that insight make his conclusions about Rosenthal more valid than the conclusions of other CoPols readers?
I served on the citizen review team for my city’s police department. Cops have a tough, tough job but some of them also have more testosterone than self-control. They are trained to behave appropriately in tense, scary situations. 99% of them do; 1% do not, and the 1% who just want to bust heads when some nitwit lips off to them need to find another line of work. When Rosenthal says they should fire that 1%, I’m behind him 100%.
There’s no statute of limitations on being an asshole.
This quote:
has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO with incident with the son of the Pueblo deputy. It’s from the KDVR article about the dog owner incident, but you did a good job making it seem that way.
And then there’s this…
Did you actually read the article or were you too blinded by your cop-hate when this part came up?
This Gavito idiot called Hickenlooper’s request for a review by the FBI “political grandstanding.” How you get planted video tape out of that is beyond me.
I’ve worked a little with Denver PD and I have often found their officers to be full of class, professionalism, and very serious about doing a great job
That said – this video is awful, and hopefully, an isolated incident – the cops involved should be investigated – I think it is too early to chastise the entire organization
He understands my particular issues and limitations and stops by when my partner is out of town to check on the house and me. He likes to let me know if there are any “trouble spots” I need to let the gardeners know about. He has, in my opinion, been the epitome of a great cop and great neighbor. His wife also makes a mean meatloaf but obliviously keeps asking us over to their place for dinner.
of Apples is fresh and unbruised. Sadly Some Cops have incarceration fetishes and/or an innate need to brutalize others. These officers are the ones that get good cops shot.
I have found about 1 in 15 Denver cops fit this profile. it would seem that a few of the Bad Apples have been caught on video lately.
they should be punished and possibly fired. Yet the sad part of that is they will then get jobs in Saudi Aurora or Lakehood where their violent behavior is encouraged by other police officers.
I for one prefer Denver cops (and State troopers) to any others in the state.
There’s a cop in Aurora still on the force after being convicted of DUI and shortly thereafter was`arrested for another DUI.
With most private employers he would have been gone – but not at the Aurora Police Dept
Most cops are decent hardworking public servants who deserve respect for doing a tough job. But there has to be a better screening process to mitigate the hiring of those psychologically unfit for the position. Obviously there are too many of these falling through the cracks.
Agree with most of the comments above. Denver Cops haven’t gone rogue.
That said, some Denver cops are arrogant and quick to temper, which is not a good combination for a man who has authority.
Your dislike of law enforcement stems from your history and the line of business you and your husband chose (hint, not the restaurant).
Yeah, Whiskey, I’m sure that’s it. Law enforcement’s frustration is so high ’cause they can’t go after potheads anymore, they’re going around beating up citizens.
Look in your own backyard and with the people you associate with as well. IMHO, they’re a little too criminal for my taste, so to each their own.
And Car31, don’t get it twisted. I am the most law abiding you ever met, I just keep the Constitution in your face better than most. And I have NO FEAR of retaliation.
Your attitude is like the cops, “you must be bad people because we don’t like what you for a living.” Never mind it is legal and overly regulated. Car, is the same true about liquor store owners or nightclub owners. How about CEOs of ENRON or BP. I just want to be clear on who in our society are criminals based on their chosen business.
Funny enough, I have four emails this morning of people that have harassing run ins with Denver Police. All of these people are afraid to talk about because of retaliation. These are bloggers that you would recognize.
No, not all cops are bad. Forward69, states 1 in 15. That number terrifies me. 1 in 15 cops out there insecure thugs with guns. Is that a larger number than gang members with guns in LoDo, where I live and work?
I am not anti-cop, I am anti THUG COPS. And unfortunately too many in their ranks should not be cops. This is not a new phenomenon, it has been going on for years. So, let’s not act this is the first time we have heard about police brutality.
My distaste for police brutality goes back to my 20s when I left the military as a young officer. I was shocked to see Los Angeles erupt into a brutal police state. People dying in police custody, kids being beaten on the street in front of night clubs. Denver is looking like 1990 Los Angeles.
Scottp, are you really saying that in America, I cannot give the cops the finger? Are you really saying in America I cannot call a cop a name? Are you saying in America while walking my dogs a cop can demand my “papers”? Are you fucking kidding me!
Just because the cops got called on the carpet and city had to pay $17K does excuse the incident or the blind support you seem to have ScottP. The fact is the cops seem to feel they can do this in the first place. I am more concerned about my family’s safety.
I am sure the family of the dead man in custody could care less about the money from the wrongful death lawsuit or the fact that the cop was suspended for a week (or whatever the punishment). The concern is how many times are we going to see this? How many times does this happen before it happens to your family?
Think it won’t happen to you because you are nice law abiding people? I am sure the Pueblo Police Officer didn’t think his “brothers” would attack HIS son either.
If we as citizens don’t call them on carpet and let them know we won’t stand for this THUG COP behavior, who gets beat down next? My husband, my brother, me?
Yep, being a cop is dangerous and not a job I would want to do. But too many are overly aggressive, insecure and have point to prove.
Slow down. The 1 in 15 number is something that a poster in this diary expressed as an opinion–no basis of fact for that percentage so let’s refrain from quoting random numbers.
It’s a slippery slope when we start to assume that this is normal behavior for cops. Maybe it is. But I don’t see proof of that. I see two different incidents and in one incident, a policeman that is out of control.
My biggest issue with situations like these is simple–you have a kid with a cell phone versus a police officer with a taser, a gun, a baton, handcuffs and loads of authority. Not exactly a fair match up, no matter what folks want to claim this kid did off video.
I don’t think anyone is going to argue that cops take care of their own to a degree that can become unhealthy. My experience working with DV victims married to cops has been that the department sometimes covers for the cop and the victim is left with no support and nowhere to turn. Hard to report getting beat up to the police when the guy beating you up is a cop.
On the other hand, I’ve seen lawyers, accountants, waiters, nurses do the same thing–provide cover for a fellow employee. And I’m not ready to paint all the waiters of the world as criminal thugs.
To paint the entire department (see title of your diary) as criminals is inflammatory and counterproductive, WLJ.
Three incidents caught on tape and numerous complaints in state of 4 million people is excessive. The Mayor calling in the FBI suggests we have issues. Clearly, he would have more knowledge of what is happening in the city than all of us, and he felt it was necessary to bring in another authority.
The point here is stop this issue before we have decades of situations like NYC or LA. Honestly, the feel in LA with the cops in the 90s was horrible. No one trusted the cops.
When I get pulled over, I call one of my attorney friends and leave the cell phone on. By the very nature of these current videos, I have to ask, “Are we safe around the cops?” How do we know if we are getting a good cop, or a THUG COP?
Scott and I have had three negative run ins with the cops in Colorado and we have live here for 6 years. We had no run ins with cops in LA as individuals and I lived there for 14 years. We are well lawyer-ed up and well known, what happens to people that don’t have our connections?
Because I don’t know where I said that in America, you cannot give the cops the finger or call a cop a name. Where did you read that I said the cops can demand your “papers”?
Oh wait, here’s where I said it:
Yep, nothing but pure blind support for bad cops there.
Just know that when a cop contacts you, he doesn’t know if you’re a regular person or a thug who wants to kill cops. If you start acting like a thug, that cop is going to take action because he wants to go home alive.
Do a search for “Police ambush” and you’ll find no shortage of stories where cops were FUCKING AMBUSHED by people.
Heavily armed man orchestrates attack on Texas police building
4 Police Officers Shot Dead in Lakewood Coffeehouse Ambush: Police Mourn 4 Officers Killed
Gunman Prepared Sniper Perch Before Fatally Shooting State Trooper
Where’s your outrage for these stories or do you think these cops deserved to be attacked because they’re all criminals?
always throw out the straw man argument that police face real danger in their jobs so they are justified in their aggression against non-dangerous people too?
I guess before any of these men and woman became cops, they grew up in a far away place and were kept blissfully unaware that the job they were taking on was dangerous. That must be it.
So that being so, whenever they must confront John and Jane Q. Public in the streets, they are fully justified in assuming that we are all ambushers ready to take them out. Because, you know, they can never be sure.
And the rest of us better have proper respect for their authority, even when they flagrantly abuse it because you know, this isn’t America any more, it’s a police state where we need to be afraid of them because you never know if they think we’re really the bad guys and they want to take us out.
Wrong! In fact, this whole thought process is part of what makes our society ever more dangerous as time goes by. We all need to be highly armed to protect ourselves from the criminals as well as protecting ourselves from the power of the state. Go stock up on those guns and ammo people, especially before the president comes to take them from our cold dead hands.
Where did I say their actions were justified because I missed that part?
“Where’s your outrage for these stories or do you think these cops deserved to be attacked because they’re all criminals?”
That argument implies some sort of equity between what the police sign up for when they join the force (fighting bad guys and gals, facing danger, etc) and the threat that we as common citizens must face when confronted with outrageous police brutality. It is implied.
You are implying that…
The cops signed up for a dangerous job, so it’s ok if they get assaulted, shot at and killed. That’s what you get for being a cop.
Isn’t the implying game fun?!
if you want to be stupid and make stupid comments like that.
So you do say it is okay for average citizens to be assaulted by cops because after all cops face danger every day and get shot at infrequently by bad guys and it can be hard to tell who is really a bad guy in the heat of the moment. That seems to be your argument right?
Not police, but sheriff.
The sheriff runs the county lockup.
whether they are DPD, Sherrifs, FBI, Secret Service or whatever, they are all forms of police authority.
And the bigger issue is the people that have been beat down were not criminals deserving of the brutality they faced.
They were not robbing banks or pulling guns or even wearing gang attire.
They were walking their dog and going out dancing. That, people, needs to be the focus. The fact that the police are so poorly trained they cannot diffuse simply situations without extreme violence.
or how you frame your argument is wrong again.
$5.00 says you have never read a DPD training manual. Same bet you have never seen a CIT trained police office deescalating a situation so an individual doesn’t go to jail. Willing to bet you’ve never been on a ride along with a Denver cop.
Your prejudice against law enforcement is well known on this blog, and I’ll be the one to hold a mirror up to your prejudice.
The title of your diary states every cop in Denver is a thug – this isn’t true.
Your statement above states that Denver cops do not receive good training – this isn’t true.
You claim Denver cops routinely beat, intimidate and harass citizens who are doing nothing but say, walking a dog or talking on their phone – this isn’t true.
There are SOME cases where police in Denver have gone too far and overstepped their boundaries. One time is too many, but, as a wise man once told me, “When your job is to deal with the scum of society every day, all day, some of the scum gets on you”. Not an excuse, just a reason.
Anyone who paints all law enforcement as corrupt, evil, mindless beating machines with no respect for the law is wrong and prejudiced.
Just like I am when I paint all MMJ dispensaries as drug dealing fronts for cartels that help perpetuate crime syndicates and get more young people using potent drugs and all MMJ cardholders are potheads looking for an easier way to score. Isn’t true is it?
Sometimes it sucks looking in the mirror, doesn’t it?
Well said, Car31.
WLJ, it’s nothing personal at all, but trying to cast the whole department as thugs (your headline does exactly that) is offensive to me.
You really should go on a ridealong sometime.
A ride along. I was in the military, I get being in harms way. Even in the military, where we know we are dealing with people who want to kill us, we are not allowed to beat them down.
It is considered an international incident if you get in a fight with a foreign national.
Please don’t feed me the how tough their job is. Yes, it is and recruits know that going in to it. And obviously, not everyone can handle the great responsibilty of being a cop.
Those that can’t handle need to be fired immediately.
I am trained in hand to hand combat and gun control. I have never had to use what was taught to me in the military in a civilian matter, even though there were times I would have liked to. IT IS CALLED BEING IN CONTROL!
No, I have not read a training a manual, not my job. I am pretty sure it covers how to diffuse a situation.
Three incidents caught on tape. How many police misconduct beatings were not caught on tape? I have four stories in my inbox that I am asking the people that sent them to share them with you. People are are afraid! AFRAID of what the cops will do to them!
How are Americans afraid to tell what the cops did to them? And why would that be the case in this country if this was not reaching an epidemic.
So, there is an issue in America with bad cops. I am not making this stuff up!
If three dispensary owners were on tape beating our customers or selling to people without licenses, we would all be shut down by the head cop AG Suthers. But in fairness, I changed my title.
Really, you think those officers were well trained? If they were, these beatings would not have taken place. They beat a man walking his dogs – there is no defense.
Really, google, police misconduct in Denver. And take a look at the video. The peopel did not have guns, or knives. what did they do that warrented that?
Scum of the Earth. Is that what the America citizen is to law enforcement, Scum of the Earth? If this is how the cops see us, we have an even larger problem!
OK, maybe. I have just had enough runs with cops to be prejudicial. That’s what happens when trust is lost.
No, my mirror is clear. I am not confused about what I said or what I mean.
How do you propose fixing the issue of “thug cops”? You have stated your opinion very clearly but I haven’t seen anything about how to fix the problem.
Will you remain nothing more than a firebrand or will you step up and offer solutions? Have you given any thoughts towards a peaceful resolution that would allow citizens to remain protected by a police force?
we had a director of Public Safety who took his role seriously when it came to cracking down on police abuse. Now we don’t. Why don’t we just make sure that existing laws and regulations are followed and when not that appropriate punishments are meted out. That would go a very long way to restoring public confidence in our police department.
I never said the solution had to be something new and exciting. I simply stated that for all her rhetoric and name-calling, she never once offered a single resolution.
Unmitigated rage never solved anything. It sounds to me like there need to be some personnel changes in the police administration. We then have the new personnel uphold existing rules and regulations put in place to protect the public as well as the police.
we are in violent agreement it seems. 🙂
First, thank you for your service. I haven’t served and respect you for that.
I’ll reply to you on this and then let you have the final word is you wish, especially since I’ve ignored my work long enough on this blog (and ’cause I’m typing this twice since I screwed up a copy/paste edit).
No cop should beat civilians. No cop should overstep their boundaries and if they do they should be held accountable just like any other member of society who commits assault on another.
There is an issue with bad cops in America and Denver. There’s also an issue with bad schools, lawyers, teachers, business owners, politicians, lobbyists, soldiers, parents and kids. Your sense of outrage on this is projecting from your prejudice born from past experience, beliefs and the line of work you choose to pursue.
I believe these officers chose to ignore their training, but the fact that they did does not mean that all cops are poorly trained.
There is not an epidemic of police brutality in this country nor in Denver. I would argue instead that there is an epidemic of ignorance in this country.
Every day, Whiskey, every day police men and women deal with punks, murderers, pimps, drug dealers, child molesters, rapists, torturers, thieves, wife beaters, arsonists, bigots, kidnappers, human traffickers, cheaters, liars, swindlers, and more. These are the scum of the earth. If every day, every minute, every encounter of your life brought you in contact with those in the gutter, it is difficult to not be angry, distrustful and balanced.
Again, not an excuse, just a reason.
Your example about the three dispensaries doesn’t hold true. I know for a fact some dispensaries sell excess MMJ to people without licenses. I know for a fact there are illegal MMJ card holders. I know for a fact that not every dispensary is on the up and up. If I know this, law enforcement knows this, yet AG Suthers hasn’t, despite his best efforts, shut you down.
I own my prejudice against medical marijuana. I own my prejudice against dispensaries. I own my frustration at seeing young minds turned soft because of the drug your industry pushes.
From the tone of your diary and comments, your prejudice rules your passion.
That is a dangerous place to be.
As soon as the cop grapped the kid the camera panned away. Who is in charge of the cameras? Is it some department connected to the police. Why wouldn’t they want this documented clearly?
…if that’s a city camera. It might be from a private business.
Then I don’t know why it panned away.
I’ve worked with these kind of cameras before. If you move a camera out of it’s default position and you don’t pay attention to it within a certain amount of time it automatically goes back to it’s default position.
Just before panning away it panned down and focused on the scene until it realized what it was recording. That should also be criminal to turn a camera away from the scene of a crime in order to protect further criminal behavior by the police. I am sure the police logs or vendor logs if it was outsourced would say who was manning that camera at the time.
that the young man’s father (a Pueblo Deputy Sheriff) heard an officer say (over the phone that conveniently disappeared) for someone to move the camera and get the recording. That’s all hearsay of course.
The reason Rosenthal was brought in was because of these very same issues.
He was to review each case very close and recommend. If his recommendations are not accepted than the failure is not Rosenthal but those in the department wanting to go back to the good ol’ days when beating up anybody was not punished.
I am a strong supporter of Police and Fire Associations and Unions. But, protecting thugs from punishment is not the best way to maintain solidarity.
If Rosenthal recommended those cops be fired than they should have been canned.