Weekend Open Thread

“You must not lose faith in humanity. Humanity is an ocean; if a few drops of the ocean are dirty, the ocean does not become dirty.”

–Mahatma Gandhi


44 Community Comments, Facebook Comments

  1. kwtreemamajama55 says:

    Colorado is leading the nation in voter rights – again.

    Denver will pilot a smartphone based voting ap, Voatz, to allow military and overseas voters to vote in next month's municipal election. This is a big deal – the former process to comply with UOCAVA rules required overseas voters to download a ballot  form, print it out, vote it, scan it, then email or send it back to their elections office. This unwieldy and inconvenient process was a hardship for military voters, and significantly delayed the special recall election in 2013, for instance. Those who know blockchain technology can speak as to whether it is actually secure.

    So there's that. Then, Senate Democrats have also introduced an automatic voter registration bill, SB-1935. The bill

    calls for Automatic Voter Registration across Colorado for eligible voters who affirm they are a citizen of the United States, have lived in Colorado for at least 22 days before an election, and are at least 16-years-old while acknowledging they must be 18-years-old to vote. – Benjamin LLoyd, KOAA News

    Of course , the right wing talkers are losing their minds over these two bills. Predictably, they claim that this will allow thousands of illegal immigrants to vote, somehow missing the parts about "eligible electors" and "military and overseas registered voters.”

    Nevertheless, this is progress. We should let our legislators know that we support these bills to enfranchise more Coloradans, to make our elections more free and more fair, and to set an example – again – for the rest of the country.


  2. RepealAndReplace says:

    Be afraid, be very afraid….

    The 2020 campaign is not going to be about Donald Trump's legal and ethical shortcomings (to put it mildly). It's not going to be about his racism, xenophobia, and misogyny. It's going to be all about socialism (you'll hear a lot about Venezuela) and radical Islam (you’ll hear a lot about 9/11, who is patriotic and who is not). 


    How do you think this ends?

    • VoyageurVoyageur says:

      How it ends depends in large measure on whether we can keep Bernie Sanders locked up in the basement and come across as a party actually capable of governing.

      God bless Nancy Pelosi and bright new faces like Pete Buttagieg.

      • MADCO says:

        Thoughtful people are helpful if they focus more on ignoring the distractions and getting a message out.
        Bashing this candidate or that is not helpful.

        Your preferred can't win. It's not personal, it's math.

        • VoyageurVoyageur says:

          What are you trying to say, Madco?  What is "basing" a candidate? Did you mean "bashing". ?

          What candidate are you so sure "can't win"?

          This is a very incoherent post.  I think you often forget you are appearing in a chain of comments and address just one person without specifying who or what you are responding to.

          • MADCO says:

            A chain that is notorious hard to follow andmixes up comments.
            Maybe I wasn't talking to you, VEE

            Seriously – just call someone a crack and be gone.
            Or just be gone.
            You have demonstrated that your comments are not part of the solution.

            For example- you can trash Senator Sanders all day long.
            Most of the regular posters here don't care what you say about him.

            But when you do, and then Sanders sees the light and drops, and you want his disappointed supporters to pay any attention to your opinion, you'd have to have a hundred more sock puppets. They have learned to hate you.

            But then when you start whining about D's not supporting D's, good hearted, well intentioned Ds like Senator Amy (she can't win PA, MI and WI or AZ) you whine and complain about how the young D's are not real D's .

            it's almost like you would rather have the right candidate and lose, than fucking WIN. No- I'm wrong. It's not almost like that. It's exactly like that.

            Save it for the pub, man. You owe me a pint anyway, but I'll buy.

            • Conserv. Head Banger says:

              You guys are drinking buddies?

              • VoyageurVoyageur says:

                Not drinking buddies, though I think he'd be a grand one.  I know we met once at a Democratic function I was covering for pols.

                He might have at one of our meet ups and may have even known me in my former life under my real name of Rachel Maddow. 

                But on the whole we're net buddies.  I respect his stuff, though as I said, the haphazard groupings of Word press and his cryptic style can sometimes leave me baffled about what he's trying to say and who he's saying it to.

              • MADCO says:

                Under certain circumstances, sure.

                But it's been more of a figure of speech for some time.


    • kwtreemamajama55 says:

      I refuse to be very afraid, or too overwhelmed or cynical to act against this wannabe autocrat. Instead, I choose to act. 

      For me, that means writing, grassroots activism, small donations, choosing to support the boldest and most honest politicians and policies I see. 

      What are your choices? Is being “very afraid” enough for you?

      • RepealAndReplace says:

        My choices are that we nominate a viable candidate, carry a appealing message, and (as V. said) lock Bernie in the basement until after the election. In fact, I think it would help if some of the other loony lefties would keep a low profile as well. (I'm looking at you, AOC.)

        • kwtreemamajama55 says:

          OK, Bernie's not going to be locked in the basement. I'd prefer that he drop out and endorse Warren, and be content with his role to keep the debate on Medicare for All honest,  but I don't get to choose that, either. If he's the nominee, will you vote for him? You're always lecturing the rest of us to vote for the nominee….will you?

          Nor are AOC, Elizabeth Warren, or all the other people you label as "loony lefties" going to be incarcerated  in your 3rd way dungeon fantasies.

          The Democratic party is moving to the left because trying to placate the right and corporations didn't work. Bipartisanship and norms of discourse don't work in Congress. McConnell laughs at them and ignores them.

          Obamacare is being dismantled piece by piece. The planet is simmering towards climate catastrophe, and incrementalism only kicks it down the road for the next generation to solve.

          So I'm asking what are you, personally, going to do instead of being "very afraid", or "locking people up",  as the Dumpster wants?

          • VoyageurVoyageur says:

            Now, now, MJ, don't go spewing  venom all aver R&R because he has the temerity to disagree with you.

            That's my job!

            As to bernie, a Sanders- led Crusade for Socialism would be such a catastrophe, I don't know what I would do.  We'd lose the House and Senate and the Supreme Court for a generation.  I'd probably put my efforts into state and local candidates in an effort to salvage something.  

            Would I vote for him?  Well, would he even allow that?  Would he promise moderate Americans anything?  Would he keep the promise?

            He isn't a Democrat and is thus not entitled to automatic support from the party. I might vote for Weld if he's running.

            I know we can''t literally lock Bernie in the basement.  But he's 79 on election day and the male life expectancy is 78.  The chance that he is dead or has a disabling stroke by election day is thus quite high.  He'd be 87 if he lived through two terms.

            So, would I vote for Bernie if he was the candidate?

            A lot would depend on whether he had a real Democrat as a running mate because he would be very unlikely to live out his term.

            So, would I vote for Bernie? As the saying goes, I'll jump off that bridge when I come to it.


          • RepealAndReplace says:

            I'm liking Amy Klobuchar, Jay Inslee, and Cory Booker, in that order. I wouldn't rule out Hick but I don't see him hanging in there for very long.

            My concern is that whoever is the nominee unfortunately is going to spend a lot of time distancing herself or himself from some of the more exotic things being said and promised by the LWNJs.

            When that has happened in the past, it didn't end well. 

            P.S. Warren is actually hurting Bernie, not the other way around. He is running neck-and-neck with Biden. If she dropped out and endorsed him, he picks up her supporters and pulls into the lead.

            • kwtreemamajama55 says:

              OK, R&R, so we know who your favorite candidates are. Not a bad selection – they all have their strong points.

              And you're "concerned" that the nominee will have to distance themselves from….what? the Green New Deal? Medicare for All? Every one of the candidates you mentioned has endorsed these policies in some form.

              To refresh your memory, Hillary ended up copying Sanders on universal health care, on whether or not she was a "progressive" or a "capitalist", and on the free-tuition-for-state-universities. She finally figured out that she should be taking a clue from Sanders' gigantic crowds, huge small-donor base, and the enthusiasm of his supporters.

                It was not, as you suggest, the other way around. HRC didn't "distance herself from the LWNJs" – she copied the LWNJ rhetoric. I think that's happening now, too, with the current slate of Democratic candidates – everyone's anti-capitalist, everyone wants universal health care insurance, everyone's a progressive. But what does it mean, really? It's why I trust Warren…we know she walks her talk. But I digress.

              Warren lost 4 poll points the day Bernie announced this time. Frankly, it pissed me off, and I know I'm not the only one. But I'll still vote for him should he be the nominee.

              And I still don't know what you will do personally to fight Trumpism, assuming that the basement dungeon for socialists isn't an option. And you also haven't answered whom you would vote for, should Bernie become the nominee.

              V doesn't speak for you – you're grown. So what do you think?

              • Conserv. Head Banger says:

                Why are you so concerned about what R & R might be doing to fight Trumpism? My thought is, at least here in Colorado, that the Republicans need another wipe-out in 2020 like they got in 2018 before some of us can begin a process to cleanse the party.

                Why are you concerned about who he might vote for? We don't have a secret ballot anymore? Besides, isn't it way too early to start talking about who to vote for? First caucus isn't for 10 months.

                • VoyageurVoyageur says:

                  It's gonna take a while to sort out this field, CHB.  In 2016, you guys had an oversized field and settled on the worst candidate since Benedict Arnold.

                  It is to be hoped that we do a little better than that.  So far, except for the way, way too old caucus, biden and bernie, we're looking at an embarrassment of riches.

                • kwtreemamajama55 says:

                  R&R has so many people willing to speak for him.  I just get tired of his dire warnings against us "lefty loonies", and what he thinks are our wacky "free stuff" policies (which his preferred candidates share, btw) and wondered who he'd vote for in the crunch.

                  Apparently, he doesn't feel like answering.

                  But for your own part, CHB, good to know that you're counting on Dems to clean house in 2020 so you can clean yours. Don't you want to tell us not to get complacent? or something.

                  • Conserv. Head Banger says:

                    Well, MJ, you Dems WERE complacent in 2016 when it came to taking Wisconsin, Michigan, and Pennsylvania for granted.

                    And how do you think I am speaking for R & R? I was asking you polite questions.

                    • kwtreemamajama55 says:

                      I wasn't complacent in 2016, nor were any of the Dems I know. Maybe the HRC campaign was – I don't know.

                      As I've written before, voter suppression was a much greater factor in Trump's "victory" than 3rd party votes or poor decisions by the Clinton campaign.

                      OK, so while I'm pissing people off, and being such a "nasty woman" with my pointed questions, let me ask you along with all of the other current and former Republicans who post here: if Bernie is the Democratic nominee, who gets your vote?

                    • Conserv. Head Banger says:

                      No Reply button for your latest post, MJ. If he is still in the race, Trump will NOT get my vote. As for Bernie, well, as I stated above, it's 10 months until the first caucus. Ask me in a year how I feel about the Dem field.

                    • VoyageurVoyageur says:

                      Voter suppression and Jilliot defection both beat Hillary.  Like a basketball game decided 89-88, every score in the total was critical.

                      But yes, the idiot Robbie Mook campaign that didn't schedule even one visit to Milwaukee shares the blame.

                      Jilliots, take a bow!

                    • VoyageurVoyageur says:

                      MJ indeed was not complacent in 2016.  Yes, she was slow to get over her anger at Hillary beating Bernie.  But she worked hard at the local level to register voters and turn them out– thereby helping the ticket from county offices through president ial.  She deserves credit from all sides for that work.

              • RepealAndReplace says:

                You are such a bitter and nasty woman……..

                First, Hillary did say what she needed to say to get Bernie's endorsement. Including promising the free stuff. I'm not sure it would have been her top priority if elected.

                I voted for Polis even though he promised free stuff too. If he gets the legislature to put the free health care on the ballot – something he very likely can do – and then gets 50% plus one of the electorate to vote for Amendment 69 – and good luck with that one – then we get free health care.

                If President Klobuchar makes Medicare-For-All her #1 priority after her election, and she can get it through the House and Senate, then we get Medicare-For-All. 

                If Bernie becomes the nominee, I imagine there will be a centrist option who can self-finance a campaign (Mike Bloomberg or Howard Schultz). Power abhors a vacuum. Given the choice between the white nationalist Trump and the fringe left Bernie, I'll go with the candidate in the middle.


    • Duke CoxDuke Cox says:

      Violently….and to be honest with you, I don't think it ever actually ends. If we get to the point where it just goes back underground to become a criminal matter instead of a political movement led by an illegitimate president, we will be lucky. 

      Haters gonna hate…

    • JohnInDenverJohnInDenver says:

      Labeling the opponent in some negative fashion works mainly as a "turn out the base" strategy. People wind up voting out of fear of "them", thinking what is now in possession will somehow be stripped away.

      There will be some motivated to vote for Donald Trump from their fear of socialism, or immigrants, or gun-grabbers. There will be some to vote against Trump from their fear of fascism, or plutocrats, or pussy-grabbers.

      There are some who will vote for their inherited, familial tribe of Republicans or Democrats.

      Most willing to vary their votes will be asking "what's in it for me." And their concerns vary — jobs, clean air, increased bank accounts, a better commute, more chances to walk in the woods and a hundred other things.

  3. JohnInDenverJohnInDenver says:

    Nice shout out to the female Colorado legislators — well, at least the ones who are passing policies.   WAPO Karen Tumulty Female representation matters. Colorado’s legislature proves that.

  4. Diogenesdemar says:

    He may have a put on that new Members Only jacket . . . 


    . . . but underneath it sure looks like he’s still the same old, old guy???

  5. Duke CoxDuke Cox says:

    Rahm Immanuel pointed out the likelyhood that the insanity we are witnessing at the border is a calculated distraction.

    T***ps' budget has Yuge cuts to Medicare and Medicaid. The Mueller report is full of surprises because the Whitest House did not debrief Don McGahn. They don't know what is coming…but none of it is likely to be good news for T***pco, Inc.

    The Whitest House is furiously trying to deflect interest in all the excrement about to flood their basement.

  6. DavidThi808DavidThi808 says:

    Apparently the State of Colorado does not want our tax money.

    Went to make a tax deposit that is due Monday. And the website says the earliest we can schedule an electronic transfer is Tuesday. So instead we have to print a check and mail it.

    And the state will receive that Tuesday or Wednesday, and then has to process it by hand.

    God this state has antiquated IT systems. I really think the Department of Revenue is purposely anti-business the way they try to make everything as difficult as possible.

    • Diogenesdemar says:

      I really think the Department of Revenue is purposely anti-business the way they try to make everything as difficult as possible.

      Uh huh.  It could be that, . . .

      . . . or maybe it’s just personal???

    • The realistThe realist says:

      Not surprising to me – the state budget (under TABOR, Gallagher, etc) does not allow for any significant investments in up-to-date IT systems. Sad but true.

  7. VoyageurVoyageur says:

    Pete Buttigieg gave a helluva talk today in his nominal debut to the race.  My wife thought it was even better than Kamela Harris' stemwinder in her own debut a few weeks ago.

    In a race with so many Candidates on Medicare, this politically moderate war veteran, at age 37, just might light a fire in Democratic ranks.

    Somewhere, an orange draft dodger must be shaking in his boots at the thought of having to face a man half his age, with ten times his intelligence and a thousand times his courage.

    Donald Trump dodged the draft because he suffers from spinal jaundice — the main sympto m of which is that big yellow streak down his back.  Now, this young vet stands ready to rip that yellow streak off his back and shove it up his skanky butt.

    The good folks are on our side, standing boldly in the phalanx.  The cowards, the crooks and the skanks are milling in disorderly fashion under the banner of the yellow streak.

    It's morning at Gaugamela.  Greece vs. Persia.   The climactic battle. The stakes are nothing less than the future of Western Civilization.

    And the Companion cavalry is just about ready to charge!


  8. MADCO says:

    I don't trust you now. Even when you are mostly right.

    in other news , Senator Klobuchar posted weak fundraising results, suggesting her campaign is not viable. wha-wha-wha.

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