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March 17, 2009 03:34 PM UTC

Tuesday Open Thread

  • 55 Comments
  • by: Colorado Pols

“There is a higher court than courts of justice and that is the court of conscience. It supercedes all other courts.”

–Mahatma Gandhi

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55 thoughts on “Tuesday Open Thread”

      1. … didn’t you get the talking points memo from the labors’ business pay-off partners?

        It is a shame to see such coalitions self destruct, yet I await a check’in party should EFCA pass.

        1. what you’re getting at.  I don’t subscribe to “talking points” from anyone or any organization.  I make up my own mind.

          I oppose EFCA in its current form (as, according to this poll, do most democrats).

          1. Your comments are just qualified enough to provide a gaping whole through which 60 cloture votes can magically appear.

            I can just hear Senator Bennet now … ‘I oppose EFCA in its current form, as do most Democrats according to polls; however, there are elements that justify my vote for cloture. I will not allow Americans secret ballot to be terminated, blah, blah, blah …’

            There it is, I have prepared the PR statement that will allow him to stroke off his business buddies and his union buddies while avoiding any responsibility for his actions.

            1. We’ve argued about it in past threads.

              I understand your hatred for EFCA makes you a bit nuts sometimes, but really, for everyone’s sake, calm down a bit.

              1. I am dying to get in on some forced unionization.

                ps What is your opinion on EFCA as a backdoor removal of the Colorado’s labor peace act that certain business pay-off leaders so support?

            2. to give anyone a free pass.  

              (See my comments about your strong preference for “either this or that”.  The fact that you cannot see issues more complexly than black and white does not mean that the rest of us don’t live in shades of gray.)

              As to Bennett, I don’t yet know who I will be supporting in ’10 if he finds himself primaried.  I’d like to see who the candidates are before taking a position.  I can state unequivocally, however, that I will be voting for the Democratic nominee in November no matter who that person is (unless Republicans nominate Dottie Wham whom I’d vote for in a heartbeat).

      1. end of the world as we know it, socialism, communism and fascism and the overall evil of unions.

        At the end of the day the thing that amuses me on this it is highly unlikely make much difference in Colorado where even people who support unions in theory, are way more supportive for someone else to organize and join one, not for themselves.

        Most people in CO who support making it easier to organize are still not going to organize or join.

        1. that can be worded according to what reply you want in a poll.  Ask people if they are for doing away with secret ballot elections.  The majority will say no.  Ask them if they want to make it easier for workers to choose to unionize.  They will say yes.  

          Thing is, most won’t understand that workers already have to go public with a card check to request employers give them a secret ballot election which exposes them to being fired just for asking for the damn election.  There is no secrecy to lose here.  The right to a secret election, if that’s what more than 30% want, isn’t lost either.  

          The only thing that’s lost is the opportunity for employers to crush any attempt to unionize by making it clear that if you even bring it up, you’ll be fired long before it gets so far as a secret ballot election.  

          1. People should be free to do anything they want, except what it takes to organize for their mutual benefit! To paraphrase what John Maynard Keynes once (quite correctly) said about Marxism, and apply it to Marxism’s opposite and equally absurd counterpart: “It’s hard to understand how such an unintelligent idea generates so much passionate support.”

  3. This has been hitting the news nationally and I am not surprised it has yet to be posted here. We have our very own former Senator and future Justice leading the charge to right the Palin/Stevens failures on ANWR and promote greater energy and economic security for America.

    With POTUS efforts to curtail oil usage through the shuttering of the economy, criminalization of coal, and implementation of cap ‘n trade; we have the Secretary leading the charge to drill the Saudi’s into the economic stone-age.

    Interior Secretary Ken Salazar said Monday that he would consider tapping oil from Alaska’s Arctic National Wildlife Refuge by drilling outside its boundaries if it can be shown that the refuge’s wildlife and environment will remain undisturbed.

    Although ANWR, “is a very special place”, it is really fucking cold too and you can’t see Russia from there either; so the prospects of eco-tourism are nil. Prospects for human population growth can only rely on extraction of fossil fuels.

    Giving the enviro’s hope to stifle security, job growth and economic justice, the Secretary went on to say that…

    protecting the refuge’s ecology and wildlife is “not something we’re going to change our position on”

    1. under what projection and rubric do you imagine that drilling in the Arctic Refuge would

      drill the Saudi’s into the economic stone-age

      You must be privvy to some secret information on reserves up there, because they in no way approach what lies beneath the Arabian peninsula…

      Not that I expect a simple fact to get in the way of your bloviating.

      1. and American wealth transfer to sovereign nations that curtail social justice, kill homosexuals, deny basic rights to women, support child labor, deny immigrant workers due process and representation, forced nationalism of industry, etc…

        Twitty, you should consider emmigration to a state that support policies similar to those of the former South Africa dictatorship (pre Bishop Tutu).

        1. I never trust anyone who sees things as “either this or that” and attempts to limit my choices to two.

          This is a perfect example of someone trying to force a choice between two options (drill in ANWAR or continue our reliance on Saudi Arabia) where there are clearly more choices available to us.

          1. … its also not an issue I am too familiar with so no need to explode on the right or wrongs of increased regulations in CO. Just pointing out there are many choices.

            1. is natural gas; most natural gas comes from North America.  

              You’re right, you are definitely NOT too ‘familiar’ with the issue–I would say clueless but again, dealing with the mentally challenged that probably is not fair.

            2. Total annual oil production in Colorado provides 25 hrs and 25 minutes of total U.S. annual oil consumption. In effect, on January 2nd at 1:25am we have used up all of Colorado’s contribution to our addiction.

              If there were reserves of oil in Colorado to increase this production rate in any significant way, they would have already been drilled. Maybe, by drilling more, we could coax out a few more minutes of national demand each year.

              So, thanks for playing Libertad, but you still haven’t brought up a solution based on reality.

                1. And your argument is drifting–first it was drill the Arctic to show them Saudis who’s boss; then it was drill Colorado, now its drill everywhere…

                  Guess what, we still don’t get there.  If you have data to suggest otherwise, please post.  Otherwise, you’re talking out your bung hole.

                2. Oh dear, you’re the one that seems to think you’ve got the solution, L. So don’t try to pawn the responsibility for your ignorance on  to me.

                  I’ve shown you twice that your simple (minded) solutions have no basis in reality.

                  Come back with something semi-reasonable and maybe then I’ll consider it.  

        2. with some actual evidence that drilling in the Arctic will free us of Middle Eastern oil.

          I understand that whenever anyone asks you to support a statement your only ability is to attack, engage in false arguments and generally be an ass, but I am an optimist so maybe you’ll surprise me and support a claim someday.  But I am not holding my breath.

          My only statement was provide some evidence of your absurd claim.  Guess what drilling the Arctic won’t do squat to lessen our overall energy needs–as long as oil is the fuel, foreign lands remain the drilling grounds.

          PS-I kind of think you’re an idiot and probably don’t have the ability to actually support your statements, so it’s probably unfair of me to ask you for it.  

        3. and ignorant.

          Even if we could double our oil production from northern Alaska it would have virtually no effect on our dependence on foreign oil.

          Average monthly oil production from northern Alaska = ~20,000,000 barrels

          Average daily oil consumption in the U.S. = ~20,000,000 barrels

          So, if we were somehow able to double oil production by drilling ANWR, this would yield the equivalent of 12 DAYS worth of oil each year. Essentially, after January 12th of each year, we would still be as dependent as ever on imported oil for 50 more weeks.

          Real solutions must focus on conservation and efficiency.

          Are their countries that celebrate public displays of ignorance? If so, you might consider emigrating Libertad.

    3. >>>Although ANWR, “is a very special place”, it is really fucking cold too and you can’t see Russia from there either; so the prospects of eco-tourism are nil. Prospects for human population growth can only rely on extraction of fossil fuels.>>>

      Alaska is an amazing, gorgeous jewel of a state in the summertime. Yes, it only lasts a few months, but it’s a green, lush spectacular place for that time.

      I’d like to do the state as a tourist someday – I’ve done it with 120lbs of Rucksack, weapon and gear (both winter and summer) so I’m guessing there’s some places to see in a more relaxed outfit.

    4. Didn’t you know that oil workers in Prudhoe Bay are unionized? United Steelworkers Local 4959. So why do want unions to have their hand on the valve controlling America’s energy future?

      And get this: who do you think is in the smoke-filled back room cutting deals with corrupt big oil bosses, bleeding America dry?

      Todd Palin, AK’s first dude:

      As an officer in the steelworkers’ local, Palin has also served on the union’s negotiating team, said steelworkers local secretary-treasurer Glenn Trimmer.

      hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

      Imagine! If Palin/McCain had won, big labor would have had a mole in the Whitehouse!

      But maybe that helps explain this little nugget:

      Alaska Governor Sarah Palin was a driving force in raising a tax on oil companies last year that will help swell the state’s budget surplus.

      hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

        1. Switzerland clearly preceeded the U.S. as a Republic and was in place at the time of the American Revolution.  Notably, the Calvinists at Geneva also invented a democratic model of church governance that remains predominant among churches not organized on an apostolic or episcopal basis today.

          While the U.S. declared independence in 1776, the revolutionary war wasn’t over until 1783.  The Declaration of Independence disowned the British monarch but did not itself constitute a new government.  The Articles of Confederation which preceded the current U.S. Constitution were proposed 1777 and took until 1781 to ratify; yet these did not necessarily itself create a republican form of government, under the Article of Confederation, there was an alliance of states (a bit like the UN or African Union or NATO), not a government representing the people themselves.  The current constitution was proposed in 1787, and while enough states had ratified it to allow for its validity by 1788, it was not declared in effect until March 1789, with the first session of Congress under the new Republican regime conducted later that year.

          Iceland was a Republic 930-1262 (and was under continuous autonomous parliamentary rule from 930-Present, first under Norway and then under the Danes until 1918).  Rome, of course, was a Republic much earlier for parts of its history.

          Great Britain was a Republic from 1642-1660, and parliamentary sovereignty was affirmed in 1688 after the restoration of the monarchy in 1660.  This was one of the most direct models for American Republican government.

          France, whose First Republic was declared in 1789 and promptly put into effect, was, of course, neck and neck with the U.S. in establishing itself as a Republic (though it lapsed) a few times.    

    2. Or more, as the case may be.

      What Glenn Beck and you do not understand is that you just look unhinged to the rest of us. And I imagine that you, like him, was weeping a bit for the future of the country while you were typing that.

      Please don’t. The country will do fine with or without your help.

        1. I know plenty of right-wingers who aren’t actually useful members of society, but rant and complain as if the world depends on their entrepreneurial spirit. If they’d stop sitting around at home to answer pollsters, we might do a little better. So go John Galt.

          On the other hand, John Galt brought his followers to Colorado, so um…

    4. But you probably don’t understand the concept of freedom except in how it applies to YOU doing what YOU want. That’s why you didn’t notice the real erosion of freedom that took place under Repub rule.

  6. .

    If I depended on the Washington Post exclusively for news about the Iraq war, I might be excused for thinking that the IED was the leading cause of death there.  If looking only at US deaths, that’s the main cause.  But US deaths in Iraq amount to around 1% of the total war-related deaths there.  

    Up through 2006 or so, most war deaths in Iraq, including US, Iraqi Resistance, foreign terrorist, and Iraqi civilian, were caused by a manned bomber or manned attack aircraft.  But not anymore:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03…

    Today, most war deaths in Iraq and Afghanistan are caused by “unmanned” aircraft.  I use quotes because a person in Tucson or Indian Springs or Edwards is flying those aircraft, and firing those missiles.  

    And, in an echo from warfare of the past, many of those pilots aren’t even in the military.  

    Considering the extent to which the business of killing foreigners has been integrated into our society,

    (about 5% of all jobs in Mesa, AZ, are tied to the manufacture of missiles and bombs,)

    would it be fair to say we are a nation at war, even if most of us pay no attention to it ?

    .

    1. From the smokescreen/propaganda of renaming the honest War Department to the whitewashed DoD, to the hugest military budget in the world, to the degree that we all just think the M-I complex is normal, we are a miitarized nation.

      Once one opens their eyes, one sees the 2000 pound gorilla running things around here.  Of our discretionary budget 55-65% is for the military.  

      I am not so naive as to think we can just chuck the military.  But I am awake enough to see what is going on.  

      A huge standing army – which we never had until post WWII – was something the Founding Fathers feared.  And it also means the people in control are always wanting to find a reason for war.  Test systems, personal advancement, etc.  

  8. An honest-to-goodness, stand-alone, fully-equiped new VA Hospital!

    VA expected to announce stand-alone Aurora hospital

    WASHINGTON – The secretary of Veterans Affairs is expected tomorrow to announce a final decision to build a new, stand-alone VA hospital on the University of Colorado medical campus in Aurora, congressional sources said today.

    The project had been in limbo for years because of a budget shortfall, and planners had toyed with other ideas, including placing it within the existing University of Colorado medical center at the same site.

    The announcement is considered a major victory for Colorado lawmakers, who have lobbied vociferously for the stand-alone hospital, which will serve veterans in eight states.

    http://www.denverpost.com/brea…

      2. Previous proposals had the VA hospital co-located with the University  Hospital complex, with the idea that the VA could “Share” facilities and cut costs.

        The problem with this is that the care the VA gives is radically different than civilian hospitals. For instance, the original hospital plan did not have a hydrotherapy area – something every VA hospital has for polytrauma, spinal cord injury  and  (regrettably) Agent Orange and Gulf War Syndrome paralysis treatment.

        VA hospitals treat war wounds, both physical and mental. They need special facilities, staff, etc to accomplish their mission. UCHSC is a great hospital, but they are not set up to deal with those injuries.  

        1. But I can see, for instance, the need for the VA to have their own MRI machine, but maybe not a mammogram machine.  That being based on the relatively fewer female vets. One next door would do the job.

          One of the problems we have in this country’s health care “system” is duplication.  Every facility wants the whiz-bang that might be used only 20-30% of the day.  We need to have these expensive technologies being used 12 hours a day, every day to cut costs.  

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