Friday Open Thread

“The darkest places in hell are reserved for those who maintain their neutrality in times of moral crisis.”

–Dante Alighieri

39 Community Comments, Facebook Comments

  1. Andrew Carnegie says:

    Happy, Happy, Joy, Joy

    So how is the victory party going?

    “On Thursday, Democratic Party officials held their first staff meeting since Hillary Clinton’s stunning loss to Donald Trump in the presidential race. It didn’t go well.

    Donna Brazile, the interim leader of the Democratic National Committee, was giving what one attendee described as “a rip-roaring speech” to about 150 employees, about the need to have hope for wins going forward, when a staffer identified only as Zach stood up with a question.

    “Why should we trust you as chair to lead us through this?” he asked, according to two people in the room. “You backed a flawed candidate, and your friend [former DNC chair Debbie Wasserman Schultz] plotted through this to support your own gain and yourself.”

    Some DNC staffers started to boo and some told him to sit down. Brazile began to answer, but Zach had more to say.

    “You are part of the problem,” he continued, blaming Brazile for clearing the path for Trump’s victory by siding with Clinton early on. “You and your friends will die of old age and I’m going to die from climate change. You and your friends let this happen, which is going to cut 40 years off my life expectancy.”

    Zach gathered his things and began to walk out. When Brazile called after him, asking where he was going, he told her to go outside and “tell people there” why she should be leading the party.” Per the Huffington Post.

    What goes around, comes around.

    • Conserv. Head Banger says:

      Victory party is going well in North Carolina. Dems again have a majority on the State Supreme Court and it appears that Mr. "Anti-gay" Governor McCrory got bounced. 

      In D.C., one could place odds on when V-P Elect Pence starts the "rapture" and theocracy. 

      • notaskinnycook says:

        McCrory's defeat was one of the bright spots for me from Tuesday, C.H.B. And reminds me of the biggest reason Pence jumped at the chance to run with Drumph. It was because he would have gotten his clock cleaned if he had run for governor again. After signing the "religious freedom" bill into law, as well as a bill that kept immigrants and people with criminal records from ever changing their names; even when public notice is given, his prospects for reelection plunged.  

    • MichaelBowman says:

      Perhaps you'd prefer this victory party, Carnegie?

      The Ku Klux Klan says it will hold a Trump victory parade in North Carolina

      One of the largest Ku Klux Klan groups in the country has announced a parade to celebrate President-elect Donald Trump's win.

      The Loyal White Knights of Pelham, N.C., says on its website that its parade will take place on Dec. 3.

      "TRUMP = TRUMP'S RACE UNITED MY PEOPLE," says the website's front page.

      • Civics101 says:

        Who cares what the Ku Klux Klan says?  They are as narrow-minded as Black Lives Matter.

        Doesn't having a Black Congressional Caucus, in the U.S. House of Representatives, strike you as a bit racist?  Would you object to a White Congressional Caucus?  

        I object to the concept of such racist groups within the U.S. Congress.

        • MichaelBowman says:

          We have a Congressional White Caucus.  It's called the 'House and Senate Majority'.  Who cares what the KKK says? Every damned one of us should. I have no issue with a Black Caucus. I wouldn't have a problem with a 'Rural Caucus', either. 

          I'm a privileged, white male.  Went to a school where there was no color.  My county is something close to 95% white. Ditto for my church.  The only 'Mexicans' (as we called them in the day) were families that came through in June and hoed our beet fields. I have zero problem with protests.  As I mentioned yesterday, I'd hold our powder for these kinds of protests until Trump shows his first card.  But that's just me.  I'm not one who has lived through 18 months of a candidate attacking my people each and every day. So I'm going to hold off judging these protestors for their actions because I haven't walked a mile in their shoes. 

          Back to why we need caucuses…

           

      • allyncooper says:

        Trump has repeatedly repudiated the KKK and what they stand for.

        The Clintons took millions from countries like Saudi Arabia that practice strict sharia law where women have few civil rights (they're not allowed to vote or drive a car) and there is no freedom of speech, assembly, or freedom to practice religion (other than Islam of course). They could have repudiated that behavior by giving back the money, but they didn't.

        I abhor the KKK and everything it stands for, but I defend the right of the KKK to peaceably assemble just as I defend the right of the protesters in the streets of our nation to peaceably assemble and express their frustration over the election of Donald J. Trump.

        Let us not forget on this Veterans Day, that the First Amendment is not defended by journalists or whistleblowers or protesters, but by the blood of our soldiers who took an oath to defend the Constitution of the United States.

        My Father – WWII U.S.Navy veteran (58th SeaBee Battalion)  Pacific theater. Buried with military honors. My brother has the flag that was on his coffin.

        My Mother – WWII U.S. Army veteran (Army nurse) Pacific theater and Japanese occupation. Buried with military honors. I have the flag that was on her coffin.

        Today I honor their service and sacrifice by defending the Constitution of the United States.

         

        • MichaelBowman says:

          I think you've abused the word repeatedly in your opening sentence.  Yes, he did finally (about two weeks ago) renounce their support.  But just to be clear, they (the KKK) see it very differently.  Thanks go out to your parents and all who served.  My father is a Korean-era Army veteran.  

          • allyncooper says:

            I thank your father for his service as well Michael. Whatever our differences of opinion and discourse, we owe our freedom to do so to their service and sacrifice.

            Your statement that Trump disavowed KKK support only two weeks ago is factually incorrect.

            "Trump disavows robo-call from David Duke"  August 29, 2016    CNN

            Duke was doing robo-calls pitching his and Trump's campaign. Trump's campaign responded:  "Mr. Trump has continued to denounce David Duke and any group or individual associated with a message of hate, " Trump's campaign said in a statement. "There is no place for this in the Republican Party or our country. We have no knowledge of these calls or any related activities, but strongly condemn and disavow." (emphasis added)

            I don't know what calendar you're looking at Michael, but mine says August 29, 2016 was 10 weeks ago, not "about 2 weeks ago" as you stated. 

            The statement by Trump's campaign "Mr. Trump has continued to denounce David Duke and any group…." references the fact that Trump had repeatedly denounced and disavowed Duke and the KKK in the months prior to this article on August 29, 2016. 

            I know that statement is factually correct because I took the time to research statements made by Trump himself or his campaign denouncing Duke and the KKK going back to the beginning of this year in news articles. Here's just one of them:

            ABC News's George Stephanopoulos asked Trump on "Good Morning America" on March 1, 2016:   "So are you prepared right now to make a clear and unequivocal statement renouncing the the support of all white supremacists?   Trump: Of course I am. That's over 30 weeks ago, not "about 2 weeks ago" as you stated Michael.

            In fact in my research, I found Trump disavowed David Duke in 2000. Certain parties were suggesting Trump run for president that year on the Reform Party ticket, but he declined to do so. On February 14, 2000 on NBC's "Today Show" he stated:  "The Reform Party now includes a Klansman, Mr. Duke, a neo-Nazi, Mr. (Pat) Buchanan, and a communist, Ms. (Lenora) Fulani. This is not company I wish to keep."  (emphasis added).

            The fact is, Donald Trump publicly disavowed David Duke and the KKK over 16 years ago Michael, not "about 2 weeks ago".

             

             

             

             

    • allyncooper says:

      "Victory has a thousand fathers but defeat is an orphan"

      Kinda ironic because Clinton had everything on her side ( the media, newspaper endorsements, the pollsters, the WH tipping the scales of justice in her favor, huge advantage in campaign spending, the entire Democratic establishment behind her and the well oiled Clinton machine. And she lost.

      Trump had none of this, even a substantial portion of his own party abandoned him. Historically a disunified party going into a presidential election spells disaster (e.g. Republicans in 1964 and  Democrats in 1972). And he won.

       

  2. allyncooper says:

    On day three of the post election observations, I thought it would be useful to check on the status of those celebrities and politicians who said they would leave the country if Trump was elected president. The following is a short list to get started on monitoring the progress of their exodus along with commentary.

     

    Bryan Cranston  –  "Absolutely I would move"     No reports of him breaking bad for the border yet, but we'll keep ya posted.

    Samuel L. Jackson  –  "If that motherfucker becomes president, I'm moving my black ass to South Africa!"    No better time to move Sam, since it's almost summer down there you won't have to pack as many clothes.

    Miley Cyrus"I'm moving if he's president. I don't say things I don't mean!"   Say what you mean, and mean what you say Miley. Let us know your intended destination ASAP.

    Barbara Streisand – "I'll move to Canada"   Word has it the Canadian government has agreed to give her a work permit to stay in the country as long as she sings Oh Canada at the start of every hockey game. Don't forget to pack the long underwear Babs.

    Jon Stewart –  "I'd get in a rocket and go to another planet."   Everyday astronomers are discovering new planets in other solar systems Jon, so please don't limit yourself to just our solar system.

    Cher – "I would be moving to Jupiter."   Like Stewart,  we assume she’s into an extra-terrestial move and not Jupiter Florida. At least let's hope so.

    Al Sharpton  –  "I'm reserving my ticket to get out of here if he wins."   Would that be a plane, train, or bus reservation Al?   Maybe Uber?

    Ruth Bader Ginsburg  –  "I would move to New Zealand."  No better example of a win win situation. The country is rid of her and opens up another vacancy on the Court for Trump to fill.

    Charlie Rangel – "I'm packing my bags and I'm outa here."  Rangel will have a lot of bags to pack since he's been in Congress 46 years. But we really hope he stays, no better poster boy for term limits and draining the swamp.

     

     

     

     

     

    • MichaelBowman says:

      Sweetheart, you need to pull your underwear out of your crack this morning.  What goes around, comes around.  Remember when Rush promised to move to Puerto Rico? That our favorite gun-nutter said he'd be dead or in jail if Obama won re-election?  

      • allyncooper says:

        Rush Limbaugh is an idiot too, can't stand the man.

        The point is anyone who says they're leaving the country just because things don't go their way has the emotional maturity of a six year old who threatens to hold their breath if they don't get a pony for Christmas.

        This country has been very good to all of the above, Limbaugh included. They're all worth millions, some hundreds of millions. They certainly have the resources to carry out their "threats", but of course none of them will.

         

        • MichaelBowman says:

          I'm confident your point was to infer that it's only whiny liberals who take these kinds of positions.  Instead, why don't we agree that 99.9% of Americans weren't making these kinds of claims? And that most of us want a healed nation that can live up to its potential? That we want our families and communities to be prosperous and everyone, regardless of color, race, sexual orientation or disability can participate in our economy? Could we start there? 

  3. MichaelBowman says:

    The gap widens…

    Clinton’s Substantial Popular-Vote Win

    By the time all the ballots are counted, she seems likely to be ahead by more than 2 million votes and more than 1.5 percentage pointsaccording to my Times colleague Nate Cohn. She will have won by a wider percentage margin than not only Al Gore in 2000 but also Richard Nixon in 1968 and John F. Kennedy in 1960.

  4. Zappatero says:

    As we can all see, Republifucks and Cons are being quite magnanimous about the win of Herr Trump. (Make sure to check out what Ann Coulter is up to.) The first time he shits on them by betraying their racist desires, which will be very early, they should be quite shocked. 

    Now, as to how Republicans shit on our Constitution and have stolen a Supreme Court seat from the winners of the 2012 election, Jeff Merkley explains:

     

    If Bennet has any guts he’d sign on to this issue as well.

  5. Zappatero says:

    DC and Establishment Dems still love them some Wall Street. But wait, so do Republicans! If this is going to be about the campaign cash, as this site is overly concerned with and that made Bennet such a hero here, then just say so.

    • MichaelBowman says:

      We'd all (well, a lot of us would) love to get big and dark money out of politics.  This, and dismantling the Electoral College, would be a really good project for the Clinton Foundation.  You probably just puckered up a bit, Zap, but think about the legacy they'd leave behind?  One of her campaign promises was to the overturn of Citizens United. We thought that would happen via Supreme Court nominees.  It could happen in other ways if the social movement was funded properly.

  6. (((JADodd))) says:

    In case you were wondering – yes, I'm going to go there:

    Let's see:

    White House – Donald Trump

    Senate – Republican Control

    House of Representatives – Republican Control

    Affordable Care Act – GONE!

    Don't all of you VERY SMART PEOPLE wish you had voted for ColoradoCare now?

    • Davie says:

      When Trump and the GOP-controlled Congress start dismantling Obamacare (replacing it with DontCare), and people either lose their coverage, or premiums skyrocket (both actually), the 2018 elections should be rolling around.

      Then we might see some voter buyer's remorse at the polls.

    • Voyageur says:

      Actualy, without its interface with the affordable care act, Colorado care would have been an even more certain trip to bankruptcy.  Happily, the 79 percent of Coloradoans who voted no don't share your economic illiteracy..

       

       

    • JohnInDenver says:

      We will see if the Affordable Care Act is "GONE!" or not. Trump has said he wants to repeal and replace – with the usual description of the replacement as being "great." I'm not certain there will be stomach for "repeal" alone. There may be a few hesitations among members of Congress when the constituents reliant on medical care or insurance plans with the improvements speak up. There are a number of doctors who like getting paid and insurance companies that like increased business. Then add the members of Congress concerned about the deficit and debt who look up and see the price tag – one estimate is $41 billion. And finally, there are a number of people from the heartland who will hear that the abolition of the ACA will mean their closest hospitals will close.

      And I'm uncertain Trump or the Republican Congress will be able to come up with a "replacement" plan that would have sufficient support to pass. It would need to play out.

       

      • (((JADodd))) says:

        Do not go gentle into the night. Rage, Rage against the dying light. – Dylan Thomas

        Rules for Surviving an Autocracy

        Rule #1: Believe the autocrat. He means what he says. Whenever you find yourself thinking, or hear others claiming, that he is exaggerating, that is our innate tendency to reach for a rationalization.

        Rule #2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality. It is a fact that the world did not end on November 8 nor at any previous time in history. Yet history has seen many catastrophes, and most of them unfolded over time. That time included periods of relative calm.

        Rule #3: Institutions will not save you. The problem is that many of these institutions are enshrined in political culture rather than in law, and all of them—including the ones enshrined in law—depend on the good faith of all actors to fulfill their purpose and uphold the Constitution.

        Rule #4: Be outraged. If you follow Rule #1 and believe what the autocrat-elect is saying, you will not be surprised. But in the face of the impulse to normalize, it is essential to maintain one’s capacity for shock. This will lead people to call you unreasonable and hysterical, and to accuse you of overreacting. It is no fun to be the only hysterical person in the room. Prepare yourself.

        Rule #5: Don’t make compromises. Those who argue for cooperation will make the case, much as President Obama did in his speech, that cooperation is essential for the future. They will be willfully ignoring the corrupting touch of autocracy, from which the future must be protected.

        Rule #6: Remember the future. Nothing lasts forever. Donald Trump certainly will not, and Trumpism, to the extent that it is centered on Trump’s persona, will not either.

        Autocracy: Rules for Survival – Masha Gessen – New York Review of Books

  7. Nasty Woman says:

    As with wearing a safety pin to support all who the orange one II (Boehner is I) hates and opposes, I will wear the Nasty Woman label until such time as life becomes safe for all, including white male assholes.

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