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January 21, 2009 04:43 PM UTC

Wednesday Open Thread

  • 46 Comments
  • by: Colorado Pols

We now return to your regularly scheduled program.

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46 thoughts on “Wednesday Open Thread”

  1. And the economic crisis is still bad.

    What’s wrong with that new prez anyway?  Toleja he would be incapable.

    (Just warming everyone up for the inevitable right wing screeching.)

      1. in the spirit of unity and hope, let’s hold out the olive branch and let those who want to take it, take it, and those who want to rant, rant. I’ve been known to bite the bilous bait before (big time!), but am now determined to decline the offer, whenever made. The good doctor with multiple personality disorder, for instance, posts nothing to which anyone need respond in anger, for his contentless posts only serve to discredit the position he is advocating. We can debunk his errors, point out his logical fallacies (such as the notion that stock prices are determined by the impossible discrepency between the number of shares bought and sold), and invite him to real dialogue without stooping to his level. Let’s be inspired by the moment, hopeful for what it might usher in, “with malice toward none and charity for all,” following the lead of an inspirational leader in the spirit in which he is leading.

        1. I pledge to continue to give 10% of our income to various non profits that assist children.

          I pledge to think about going to church and financially supporting it.

          I pledge to file and pay my taxes as directed by the government.

          Unfortunately I can’t pledge to be a servant to our President.

          We are all in this together and personal responsibility to self, family, and country come first.

          1. and to express those opinions. And to do so in respectful and collegial ways is both admirable and constructive.

            I believe in personal responsibility as well. And I believe in our responsibility to our families, our friends, and our community. But I also believe in our responsibility to humanity and to the planet we live on. And I believe that the old habits of tribalism, racism, and nationalism (all facets of a single historical artifact, that can be summed up as divisive local or self-similar prejudices) run counter to the interests of humanity.

            We are all in this together, but the “we” isn’t just those who share an ethnic, racial, or political-geographic identity. It’s global humanity. We are in it together, and, increasingly, our opportunities and challenges are not contained within political borders.

            I believe that the pursuit of self and local interests is both inevitable, and can be a constructive force, but less so when it is fetishized than when it is accepted and understood in a larger context. There are always gains, individual and local gains, to be had from achieving cooperative relations with others, and costs to failing to do so. That is underlying truth to which family, community, and nation are responses to, in the first place.

            But nation-states are an historical artifact that emerged in a particular epoch of human history, within the context of particular technologies and social institutions. As technologies and social institutions change, the political forms which best serve our individual, familial, local, and national self-interests change.

            Eventually, our real interests tend to transform the political, economic, social, and cultural institutions through which we pursue those interests. But there is always a lag, resulting from the drag of history. It is a phenomenon called “path dependence” in economics: The tendency to adhere to institutions and technologies that have become suboptimal because the immediate costs of converting to superior ones act as an obstacle to embracing the long-term benefits that can be gained by doing so.

            The value of the nation-state is, generally, on the decline as a vehicle for human welfare, here and elsewhere. In nations that are poorly consolidated, there is still much value to nation-building. But in nations that are well consolidated (like the United States), there is more value in diverting political authority both to more local and more global levels of organization.

            I believe these things, and will promote them, respectfully, in the marketplace of ideas as useful and beneficial perspectives. While believing these things, I will not disregard the voices of those who disagree, but rather will listen to all other ideas presented in a similar spirit, and will continue to be affected by those that are most compelling, and seem best suited to serve the long-term interests of humanity.

            What I believe in most fervantly is the exercise of reason, compassion, and imagination in the collective effort to continually improve the human condition both at home and abroad. All who agree with that basic principle can disagree on the means, on the emphases, and on the priorities, and can discuss their differences with mutual good will, to mutual benefit.

            Sometimes, you just need a sound foundation to build on.

          2. I see what you were responding to with the statement that you “can’t pledge to be servant to our president.” Well, I can’t either. Our president is our servant, we aren’t his. But I think that this is really a matter of semantics: Our president is our symolic collectivity, he is the executive agent of national collective action. I can certainly pledge to serve our national collective will, as long as it pledges, in turn, to serve humanity. This president, of all presidents in recent decades, seems most committed to that proposition.

          3. I pledge to allow you display your opinions and ideas and to criticize you only on the “merits” of those arguments, and not label you a traitor, terrorist-sympathizer or un-American merely for doing so.

            I pledge to let you have your Constitution Right to display the depth of your ignorance, but only if you let others the time to refute it.

            I pledge to let you say “I told you so,” but only if you allow us to say the same thing.

            And I pledge that I will not criticize you for standing on sidelines while profound changes occur in this nation, but you can never criticize those changes if you refuse to participate.

          4. not to get into pissing contests with people I disagree with,

            to continue to make long posts using long sentences laden with confusing language and inexcusable typos,

            to try to understand and find merit in perspectives that seem indefensible to me, and to seek ways to create constructive dialogue with those who hold such perspectives,

            to treat others with kindness and respect,

            and to work tirelessly to improve my community and our state, while always recognizing the larger wholes of which we are a part.

    2. ALERT: ARTICLE ABOUT UNIONS!!!:

      http://www.bizjournals.com/den…

      Union workers at The Denver Post and the Denver Newspaper Agency have agreed to talks with management on whether to reopen their contracts in a bid to trim expenses…

      Workers represented by the Communications Workers of America, including members of the Denver Newspaper Guild, agreed to negotiations in meetings Monday night. Workers represented by the Teamsters union reportedly have already begun negotiations.

  3. It’s another 70 degree day in January.

    Remember, a single cold day in January proves that there’s no such thing as global warming, to the deniers. Funny how none of them have mentioned global warming since this heat wave started.

    1. the systemic effects of global warming include local cooling in some areas. As global warming melts polar ice caps, the cold water released mixes with the warmer waters of the oceans. These icy currents cool off regions near where they pass.

      Of course, Colorado is not such a locale, unless there are subtle systemic effects of which I am unaware. But that’s the point: To understand complex dynamical systems phenomena, you have to let go of linear modes of thought. Variables interact with often counter-intuitive results. Warming or cooling trends isolated EITHER in time OR location are evidence neither in support of or in opposition to the theory of global warming, unless they are predicted by a well-conceived model as part of a particular hypothesis.

      1. with your “evidence” and “models” and “testable predictions.”

        I’m going to play like the deniers. It was 70 degrees on January 20, therefore the earth is warming and energy use needs to be controlled. Also, prominent global warming denier Rush Limbaugh is rich and fat.

      2. The melting ice water is non-saline. It dumps into the north Atlantic which reduces the salinity of that ocean, which in turn, reduces its carrying capacity and causes the Gulf Stream to sink lower.  This means that the GULF STREAM ..(.warm water up from Africa), loses its ability to warm Northern Europe.)

        I will repeat this fact as often as necessary as it is, I believe, the only scientific fact that I currently can grasp.  That and the sun is the center of the universe….and wow was that controversial back in the day….for those of us who can still remember.

        1. that the two systemic effects we have identified, the injection of colder water into the ocean from melting ice caps and the effects it has on the gulf stream, can both exist simultaneously, and, in fact, would seem to be mutually reinforcing. But I may be wrong: The temperature of the water released by melting ice caps may be irrelevant, and I had just somehow replaced the dynamic you describe with the one I described. It’s entirely possible.

        2. …is real enough that the DOD uses it as one of future scenarios. Mass movements of people, governments destabilized, etc.

          I was reading up on the Gulf Stream a few days ago – no, I have no life – and found out that it stopped for four days once, not so long ago! No one has a clue why.  

  5. you predicted a while ago that the short list for US Attorney would be submitted to Obama by now with three names. Do we know those names and/or a front-runner?

  6. I admittedly was grousing a lot yesterday about getting done with the ceremonies and getting on with the business of our country, then I checked in about what happened in the White House today:

    Obama started by making personal phone calls to Hosni Mubarak, King Abdullah, Mahmoud Abbas and Ehud Olmert.  Good idea to let each of them know how seriously focused the administration is going to be on the Middle East.

    Executive orders were issued to freeze senior white house staff pay, close Guantanamo Bay within 1 year and issue a 120 day to halt prosecutions there, and institute a minimum 2 year revolving door policy for administration staff as part of an overall new ethics policy.

    Obama met with Sr. economic advisors to discuss the bailout, and is meeting this afternoon with Petraeus and senior military to discuss the details of withdrawing from Iraq in 16 months.

    Yeah, yesterday was full of good vibes and emotion and happy thoughts, but LOTS OF THINGS GOT DONE TODAY BY A PRESIDENT WHO IS INTELLIGENT, PROACTIVE, DECISIVE AND RESPONSIBLE.

    I love it.  Today is a lot better than yesterday for natural cynics like me.

    Hallelujah, and God bless America.

    1. is to get his legislative agenda passed. I thought it wasn’t going to be a problem, but it seems like there’s already some tension between Congressional Dems and the new Administration.

      As far as Gitmo goes, I was very impressed how he handled it. Shutting it down tomorrow wouldn’t have been a good idea, but he shut it down on day one.

      Now the question is what are we going to do with GWOT prisoners? Do they all get trials in the US? Should they be tried in international court? Obviously the water boarding and secret prisons have to end, but there’s a huge question mark hanging over it.

  7. from HuffPo

    Wow! America didn’t just swear in a president, the nation also elected a pair of Lovebirds-in-Chief. On January 20th, we got married to the Obamas for at least the next four years, and it looked like the Obamas virtually renewed their vows in front of our eyes. Over the course of the ten inaugural balls that the pair had to dash to and dance at, the couple held hands, nuzzled, snuggled, and even kissed up a storm. At one gala alone, Barack smooched Michelle at least four or five times while holding her close in a dance. It was practically a presidential makeout session.

    I think this is actually very important. First, it gives Barak a very strong happy base and that leads to better decision making. Second, it sets a wonderful example for the country, especially teens – this is how a relationship is supposed to be. And third, it buys him goodwill from people like me for whom this has a big impact.

  8. from the HuffPo

    What can a good Republican say about the week that has unfolded?

    I’m not sure.

    Barack Obama has captured the imagination not only of Washington and America, but also of the world.

    He has delivered the most compelling inaugural speech in 48 years.

    He has brought an era of good feelings to Washington that Pat Buchanan says he has never seen in his seven decades in Washington.

    Barack Obama has also broken racial and generational barriers. Has laid waste to a generation of ideological battles born in the streets of the 1960s.

    And he’s brought a young, beautiful family to the White House.

    There will be partisan battles. Jefferson, Madison and Washington would expect nothing less.

    But for today, this all leads back to the question of “what is a Republican to think?”

    I don’t know.

    But speaking as an American, all I can say is that I’m damn proud to be a part of this great republic.

    Colorado GOP take note, people like Scarborough & Mike Coffman can get the support of people like me. I will disagree with them often, but I will always listen respecfully, will look for points of agreement, and will be ahppy to support them when I think they are right.

    1. from Dave Barry

      In the frigid early morning darkness, I head for the Washington, D.C., subway, which is already packed with people going to the Mall to see the inauguration. I head for the Pentagon, where I hook up with my fellow Rangers. We are looking sharp in our uniforms, which include T-shirts, suspenders, cowboy hats, Lone-Ranger style masks, and — tying the whole look together with a bold fashion statement — bright-red polyester graduation gowns. Also on hand are five Ranger women dressed as Abraham Lincoln (including beard) who will carry banners informing the crowd that we are World Famous.

      …

      As the bus creeps along, we listen to the inauguration ceremony on the radio. We celebrate the swearing-in with a special Lawn Rangers cheer: “Mow-bam-A! Mow-bam-A!”

      …

      Finally we turn a corner into a brilliantly illuminated street. Ahead we can see the reviewing stands set up in front of the White House, and the special enclosed area for the presidential party. This is it. With renewed energy we push our mowers forward, and suddenly there they are, looking at us from just a few feet away: President and Mrs. Obama, and Vice President Biden. The president is pointing to the mower with his plunger picture, and saying something to the first lady. And they are laughing.

  10. On one side: new Sen. Linda Newell. On the other, Sen. Dave Schultheis. The bill, in health and human services, was about extending medical care for veterans with brain injuries (I think). Newell, in recording her vote, said the new administration (Obama) would do a better job of supporting the troops than the previous one did. The look on Schultheis’ face was classic – outrage – he almost came out of his seat on that one. In the end he didn’t say anything as the committee was in the midst of voting. But you know he wanted to!

    2. The one committee hearing I had the “pleasure” of being in with him I’ll never forget.  At the time I didn’t know who that jerk was.  He wasn’t even voting with fellow R’s on housekeeping matters.

  11. “Barack Obama has captured the imagination not only of Washington and America, but also of the world.

    He has delivered the most compelling inaugural speech in 48 years.”

    However — from the Pueblo Chieftain today  http://chieftain.com/articles/…  :

    “But not everyone in the state Capitol was so enamored with what Obama had to say.

    Several Republican lawmakers watched the speech, but not all of them from the House floor.

    Rep. Tom Massey said the speech wasn’t very meaty.”

    So, take your pick.

  12. from ABC News

    “We believe that the oath of office was administered effectively and that the president was sworn in appropriately yesterday,” White House counsel Greg Craig said in a statement. “But the oath appears in the Constitution itself. And out of an abundance of caution, because there was one word out of sequence, Chief Justice Roberts administered the oath a second time.

    This may sound stupid to some but the law is the law and as they said, this is in the constitution. Repeating it to state it exactly as written by both parties shows a reverence for the law that has been all too lacking for the last 8 years (and in many other administrations).

    Respectful move on Obama’s part.

  13. For a guy who shuttles between Ohio and Washington, D.C., he sure looks tan!

    Makes me wonder if the Congressman spends more money each week on tanning booths than his constituents in Dayton do on food.

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