Thursday Open Thread

“This is your dream, anything you can do in your dreams.”

— Twilight Sparkle, My Little Pony

68 Community Comments, Facebook Comments

  1. Pseudonymous says:

    This could be interesting…

    Tim Kaine Calls To Deregulate Banks As He Campaigns To Be Clinton’s VP

    Kaine signed two letters on Monday urging federal regulators to go easy on banks ― one to help big banks dodge risk management rules, and another to help small banks avoid consumer protection standards

  2. BlueCat says:

    Way to really piss off the base. Why not just tell Bernie and his supporters….  thanks , Bernie, for endorsing me. Now go screw yourself.

    • Diogenesdemar says:

      Ummm . . . 

      You want him to say it, again?

      Seems redundant, but I know better than to argue with you here.

      • BlueCat says:

        Get who to say what again now?

        • Diogenesdemar says:

          "Why not just tell Bernie and his supporters . . . Thanks . . . Now go screw yourself"

          • BlueCat says:

            Still don't get it. The only him in my comment is Bernie. What do you think I'm suggesting that he say again? I'm saying that Kaine would be a screw you message from HRC to Bernie. Quoting this line back to me  doesn't help me understand what you mean.

            • Duke Cox says:

              Kaine would be a screw you message from HRC to Bernie. 

              to be sure. And, as follows, all his supporters as well.

              I don't think Hillary can afford to be cavalier about it. Her campaign against the Pence/Trump ticket needs someone who inspires and encourages the millions of Democrats who will see Kaine as just another Wall Street minion…as do I. Trump will ride that outsider thing right into the White House, where he can have Mike Pence run the nation while he supervises the construction of the new Trump White House and golf complex ( just down the road from Mar a Lago) and the new, commemorativeTrump U.S. stamp and coin collections…and other important "Make America Great Again" stuff.

              Boy, is this gonna be great, …or what? Trump promised.

            • Diogenesdemar says:


              I'm agreeing with you.  

              Selecting Kaine would be a (the) "screw you" message.

              "Why not just tell" would be redundancy.

              The act, as you noted, said it once.  

              Saying it again, as I snarked, seems unnecessary.

              Only someone with comprehension difficulty would miss the message of the action . . .

              .   . and need to have it repeated. 

    • Voyageur says:

      Bernie has essentially been given the platform, except for tpp and Israel.  That is recognition and something to build on.  As to Warren, I'd rather see her Senate majority leader than schumer.  But first, we need that majority.

      • BlueCat says:

        I don't see how a VP who is calling for more bank deregulation helps bring the party together to get us a win and a majority.

        • Zappatero says:

          Even leaking this shit shows a level of ignorance and incompetence (or cynicism and malevolence) by those political "professionals" involved. And they seem to be the same ones that were talking to Udall and Bennet in 2010 after Obama's progressive mandate and who seem to like things just the way they are:

          Mark Udall and Michael Bennet, are part of a self-described centrist group of 15 Democrats meeting regularly “seeking to restrain the influence of party liberals in the White House and on Capitol Hill,” according to an account in Roll Call

          Markos came to the same conclusion about Kaine and Vilsack (which I'm sure took him all of 1 second to figure out) at DailyKos:

          Dear god, I hope this is all about shitty sources, and not reflective of what’s actually going on inside Camp Clinton:

          Maybe Kaine is being floated to make Vilsack look more palatable? Neither are. 

          Several Democratic senators, donors and people close to the campaign who have spoken to Clinton say she is aware of the criticism that neither Kaine nor Vilsack is seen as a particularly flashy or exciting candidate. She also has considered Labor Secretary Tom Perez, Sens. Elizabeth Warren, Cory Booker and Sherrod Brown, in addition to others.

          It’s not just that they are dreadfully dull, uninspiring, and pretty much generic nothings. And Kaine is particularly crappy

          Kaine, by contrast, is setting himself up as a figure willing to do battle with the progressive wing of the party. He has championed the Trans-Pacific Partnership trade deal that both Sanders and Warren oppose, and he is now publicly siding with bank deregulation advocates at the height of Clinton’s veepstakes. 

          Once again: if this ConservaDem/Blue Dog faction wins, is allowed to stifle the voice of the people, is willing to shit on the legacy of the Democratic Party for their own selfish goals, then the result will be another generation lost to petty politics and will give a new lease on life to Republicans, who are in the process of self-destructing before our eyes. 

          This is some evil shit these "unnamed sources" are pulling on us once again.

          • Voyageur says:

            Obviously, being for TPP is a good thing, following the effort to expand trade begun with JFK's "Kennedy round" of trade talks and continuing though Obama.   I know if you're Donald Trump or an anti-trade Demagogue it sucks, but standing up to the protectionist lobby is a good thing for America. Unsure on the details on bank deal — obviously, Dodd Frank must be defended seriously.   Glass Steagall is so irrelevant that apparently even the Republicans now favor it.

            UPDATE: see gaf’s note above GOP Glass Steal is a fraud designed to undercut Elizabeth Warren’s version which has real reforms in it, notably limits on derivatives. Sorry, gaf. Spellcheck first made you “gal” then “gas!”

            • BlueCat says:

              Won't argue on the policy though I don't agree with you as you know. But what matters is the slap in the face this would represent to a large faction we need to be pumped for this election. In reality it doesn't matter what the VP's policies are or aren't.  Th VP 's job is to to support the President. Perceptions and energy going into this election, however, do matter.

              If HRC thinks this guy helps her win and helps Dems win big… I hope she's right but doubt it. That is all.

              • Voyageur says:

                As I've said, my own choice is Castro.  It is said there are three possible vps:

                The convention vp — chosen to unify the party and energize the base.   Either Castro or Warren does this.

                The campaign vp — helps you win a key state or interest group:

                LBJ was the classic, bringing Texas and the White House to Ds.

                I think Warren would be fabulous at energizing the base and driving Trump mad.   Castro would help bring Latinos to the Ds, driving up registration and turnout that might help take the Senate and even the house.

                The governing VP — So you won, now what?   Warren's manifest talents are kind of wasted, not sure at how good she is attending funerals.   Al Gore and Dick Cheney were influential partners.   Castro now looks limited, but he is a smart and energetic guy.

                This is where Kaine and Vilsack would presumably help, both are trusted Clinton insiders.   If that's what she wants, OK by me.     Just wake me up in time to vote in November please, 

                Kaine probably helps in swing state Virginia but snore, snore, snore.

                Vilsack?   What red blooded voter doesn't stand up and cheer when the phrase "Secretary of Agriculture" is shouted out?



            • Duke Cox says:

              Are we still at the point where "expanding" trade is at the top of our "to do" list? Is world market share all this is about? I do not have an overseas market. What does this agreement do for me? I am a locally based, micro-business, like most of my sub-contractors and suppliers.

               I was just talking to the vendor who supplies my steel studs. He doesn't care for the TPP much, either. He says the American manufacturers are struggling to match price points because import tariffs are not keeping pace with the costs (labor and regulations, mostly) paid by American companies but not by foreign suppliers. Do we really want to continue,and even hasten, the descent of our standard of living (the top 10% excepted) by codifying what amounts to "takings" language?; and granting multi-nation corporations rights and standing to sue nations for lost profit is just insanity. I am unable to see how that benefits me or my company…or that of my neighbor.

              The Trans Pacific Partnership,TPP should rather be, TPC…Trans Pacific Capitulation.

          • BlueCat says:

            Or it could have been leaked by those who wanted to kill the choice by drumming up a negative reaction. 

            • Voyageur says:

              Well, I recently bought a 55 inch Samsung LCD TV for $650.   If the protectionists had their way, it would have been a zenith at $3,000.

              No thanks.   Freer trade benefits consumers.  Protectionism hurts us all, except for a favored few manufacturers.   You think those steel stud manufacturers would bring in a Union and pay a living wage if we blocked all foreign competition?  My bet is that they just add another $20 million to their CEOs bonus.

              • Duke Cox says:

                Yes. If Congress told them they had to…

                or, in other words…when pigs fly….

                • Voyageur says:

                  Don't worry too much, Duke.  TPP is probably dead given that Trump and Bernie joined forces against it, and Hillary pandered to the left by switching her own position.   We can live with that because tariffs are fairly low now.   The real reason to fight for TPP is to warn the special interest attack dogs that we won't stand for their wrecking NAFTA, which Trump and some of his lefty allies want to do.   That's where the real harm would begin.

  3. Voyageur says:

    Kaine may have a problem.  Virginia does have a democratic Gov., Terry McCauliffe.  But if Kaine wins veep, the democrat appointed to his seat would have to run in 2017, along with the gov Democratic votes often fall off in those off year elections, so we might lose that senate seat in just a year.  I still say pick Julian Castro and lets try toock in the Hispanic vote for a generation. On the other hand, it seems ted cruz is availablesmiley

  4. Diogenesdemar says:

    Coming to HRC television spots in the near future, and running repeatedly through Election Day . . .

    Bigot, madman, bully, fraud and serial philanderer are just a sampling of the terms used by influential conservatives.

  5. FrankUnderwood says:

    Rafael Cruz tiene muy grande cojones. I don't know which part I enjoyed more: the audience reaction to his speech or the nervous look on Mike Pence when  Drumpf air kissed him.

    • BlueCat says:

      One thing I agree with Cruz on. It's more than perfectly OK to screw the guy who  disparaged your wife's looks, threatened to "spill the beans" about her and who spread lies about your father having a hand in the Kennedy assassination regardless of any pledge you signed prior to that person attacking your family with those insults, threats and libels.  I agree that any promise to support the nominee in the event that that guy becomes the nominee should be considered null and void. Cruz at least has honor and loyalty where his family is concerned.

      • Voyageur says:

        Damn straight BC.  Trump's total lack of personal honor is disqualifying.   Obviously, I'm joking about Cruz for veep but I do respect him for standing up for his family.  Compared to a groveling lickspittle like Christie, Cruz at least does have standards he won't sell out for power.

    • DaftPunk says:

      It's convenient for the most hated man in Washington that what functions as self-serving long term political strategy looks like moral high standing in the short term.

      • Diogenesdemar says:

        More than convenient, but then Cruz is nothing if not a slimy, self-obsessed opportunist. 

        Way too much conflation these days between "muy cojones" and the self-indulgent posturing of the self-righteous and those unable and unwilling to see past the wonderfulness of their own reflection in the mirror.

        Still, did enjoy seeing Cruz piss all over the Drumpfencoronation. 

  6. FrankUnderwood says:

    According to N.Y. Times, Tim Kaine has won the not-so-coveted endorsement of former President Bill Clinton in the VEEP stakes.


    • Voyageur says:

      Well,Bill’s endorsement counts with the only person who has a vote in this contest, and I don’t mean Debbie WS.

      • BlueCat says:

        HRC may have had about enough of Bill's "wisdom" by now. You're always saying she's smarter than he is. If that's the case she ought t be telling him… Thanks, hon, now run along and raise money.

        • Voyageur says:

          Unless, he's just preparing people for how she wants to go, and my money is on that.   HRC seems genuinely fond of Kaine and loyalty is a big thing for the Clintons.

          • BlueCat says:

            True. And he doesn't have an R Guv. But, honestly. They've been in close communication. Couldn't she have asked him not to send that letter? Monday? After all the enthusiastic support she's gotten from Warren and with Bernie coming over couldn't she have prevailed upon Kaine to at least try not to antagonize them and their wing right now?

          • Davie says:

            Or, by making his choice apparent, giving HRC the opportunity to show she's the boss, not Bill, by choosing another candidate.

            • FrankUnderwood says:

              That's what I think is happening…. She's going with someone other than Kaine.

            • BlueCat says:

              Lot's of interesting possibilities. I kind of like that theory. If you can't control Bill (and you can't) not a bad idea to start laying the groundwork for some distancing before he opens his big mouth and says something stupid again. Which he will.

            • Pseudonymous says:

              Or, you know, Hillary isn't missing the foreign policy piece Obama was,when he chose Biden over Kaine; she, like Obama, thinks she's change enough, and maybe a cis white male is a comforting choice for voters; Tim Kaine is a highly experienced politician with strong legislative and executive experience; and maybe he's loyal– a trait Clintons prize over almost anything else.

              I don't think Hillary cares what progressives think about a "former" pro-lifer and current bankster being vice president.  She already has their votes or doesn't (remember the push is to stop TRUMP™ not elect Hillary).  What'll this change?

              • BlueCat says:

                I think HRC can read polls and knows that this isn't going to be a cakewalk. She needs enthusiasm. She needs a big fat turn out.

                The fact that she's given Bernie big chunks of what he wants and made such a splash  out of appearing with Warren shows that she does care. That doesn't mean she absolutely won't choose Kaine. But the Bernie/Warren wing definitely is a factor in her calculations. She's already demonstrated that in her position shifts.

                • Pseudonymous says:

                  We'll know soon enough, but I think she knows she has progressive Dems by the short hairs and won't think twice about picking Kaine.  At this point, i think she's just taking the piss out of the lefties in the party.

    • Diogenesdemar says:

      . . . in other news of the self-obsessed . . .

      I guess there's not a chain strong enough, nor a kennel sturdy enough, to keep the big dog from running around and crapping all over the neighborhood??

    • Kaine is the no-drama choice. Unfortunately, he's also the no-excitement choice. Kaine might be a competent administrator who would be good at relating to the country and – Hillary's supposed top qualification – he might be "ready to lead on Day 1 if necessary". But what do you put him to doing through the campaign as once he's sworn in? I suppose Clinton could have him doing criminal justice reform and possibly race relations, but that's only a secondary theme for most voters this year.

      Finally, Republicans would almost certainly rather work with him than with Hillary herself, which in the mind of the paranoid could be a detriment. (In contrast, Republicans would rather see FDR resurrected as President than see Elizabeth Warren elevated to the post.)

      I think Kaine has the job, but I don't feel inspired by the choice.

    • BlueCat says:

      Even the officer doesn't know why he did it. Thank God he didn't shoot the therapist in the head.  Yes there is a problem. No, recognizing it doesn't mean you hate the police.

      • Voyageur says:

        On the other hand, somebody hates police.  There have been a lot of them murdered lately.

        • BlueCat says:

          That's just it. It's not a… on the one hand and on the other hand thing.  Crimes against police don't excuse crimes by police. Crimes by police don't excuse crimes against police. Good cops don't excuse bad cops. Bad cops don't excuse attacks on cops. There is no other hand. It's all the same hand, it's all wrong, we should all be on the same side. The side of not tolerating any of it.

          • Voyageur says:

            Well, when you imply that nobody hates the police,  I have to wonder what planet you live on.  A lot of people do hate police and a lot of those cop haters have guns.  No, you don't personally hate police.  But you seem willfully blind to the fact that there are murderous psychopaths targeting them.  You say we shoulldn't tolerate any of it.  But this false moral equivalence is no comfort to victims killed solely because their job is to protect us all.  

            • BlueCat says:

              You really are irrational on this subject. I have never implied in any comment and certainly not in this one that nobody hates the police.

              You are constantly implying that every police shooting is justified, that there is no racism involved in any of it ever.

              You insist on innocent until proven guilty every time a police officer is accused of wrongdoing with the proven guilty part pretty much impossible by your standards while assuming everyone shot by police is guilty of having it be their own fault until proven innocent with that being pretty much impossible by your standards.

              I have no idea why why you are so hostile to the possibility that, in some cases, it's the officer who is the guilty one and in some cases it's the person who got shot who is innocent and that there is a (well documented) racial disparity involved.  

              I have never said that all or even most or even more than a small percentage of shootings by police are bad shootings. Ever. Period.

              There really is no use discussing this with you. You either don't read what I say or willfully refuse to understand what I say or claim I've said things I've never said anything close to on this subject.

              Never mind, V.  I get it. In your world it's either…. you defend  the police as always perfect, every one of them, every time in every decision and every action or…. you hate the police.

              Go ahead and live in that world if you want to. I don't even want to know what the color the sky is there. Whatever. Enjoy.

  7. Davie says:

    Donald Trump's comments about NATO have even more Republicans getting the shivers about what damage he could do as President.

    Putin is lovin' this guy, and can't wait to start rolling over the former Soviet Union members that have strayed into the arms of NATO.

    Trump's litmus test?  What's in it for me?

  8. AP reporting tonight that Kaine has the VP slot, FWIW.

    Unlike Trump, Clinton hasn't announced a time slot for her pick. It was thought she might do it tomorrow (Friday), but if she thinks she can get better mileage out of the media reaction to tonight's Trump speech or other RNC news she might as well hold off.

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