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December 13, 2008 01:09 AM UTC
61 Comments
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and put forth an intelligent solution to the problem that is far superior to any other option being considered.
As long as the government is hanging out there with bailout money, the automaker management & labor is basically paralyzed. Private capital will drive private terms, and that will produce better companies. Enact the Polis Plan and Cerberus invests billions in Chrysler an hour later. The Polis Plan also allows for a tax holiday for debt investment as well. With private equity coming in, banks will pull some of that money out of Treasuries and recapitalize the car companies in an instant. That increases liquidity without incurring long-term public debt, which is exactly what we need to do.
If the government steps in to socialize losses to “save” favored companies, private capital is squeezed out. If some intelligent Senator will introduce the Polis Plan in the Senate (in the spirit of bipartisanship or just plain good economics) we might be amazed at how fast the near term financial problems slip away.
Everyone is so sure they know the American car companies are poorly run, building the wrong cars etc. BUNK! In the 1970s, that was true. But in this case, they did not create most of the problems they have. Remember three years ago when they couldn’t build enough SUVs? Now nobody wants them. Do you think you can adjust a huge manufacturing organization that fast? How about Toyota– they just finished a full-size truck plant in Texaas that will never be used. Hearing people say how much better the Japanese cars or carmakers are is annoying and it just isn’t true.
Polis has this one right. I admire him for having the sack to propose the right solution for the American people, regardless of political considerations & knowing he was risking some political capital he doesn’t even have yet. Good for him.
Well, that’s one way to describe it…
Beside the point that the idea Polis advocates for won’t solve the problem, your point at the end of your post supports my idea.
I can admire a politician sticking their neck out, we need more of that in DC. But political considerations are different than business considerations.
Polis approaches his politics through a business eye. Can be good and can be bad. Jared is new to this environment (Congress) and doesn’t know the lay of the battlefield yet. Does it really make sense to begin lobbing ideas into the din without knowing what is ahead of you?
As in cajones. Guts. Fortitude. Confidence. All of which are born out of ability, good intentions, and having the right approach to the problem, in Jared’s case.
The response by Car31 demonstrates the difference between obsession with politics/ideology, and actual knowledge of economics, finance, and manufacturing. It is precisely the reason why our government is so inept. I expect that Car31 has no quantitative basis to declare that the Polis idea will not work. I sense a pre-packaged ideology and that’s the quickest route to intellectual stagnation. You see it a lot and is a key feature of the elitist inside-the-beltway attitude that may be the ruination of our country.
Political considerations should be LAST on our list of concerns. Keep up the good work Congressman-Elect Polis. Your rights to free-speech and business experience are appreciated and admired.
First of all, you can disagree with Car 31 without insulting him. You have no idea who he is, and as yet another anonymous person on a blog, you have no credibility to attack him.
Secondly, nobody is talking about his right to free speech. That’s how people who don’t understand the Constitution talk. “The newspaper refused to publish my editorial, that means they’re censoring me!” Nobody is talking about passing a law preventing Polis from writing in the WSJ.
Thirdly, political considerations are all that matters at this point. Polis is a Congressman. A successful Congressman gets legislation passed. You get legislation passed by thinking politically.
Good intentions by themselves are utterly worthless and sometimes worse than that. Forming allegiances is how things get done. Nobody voted for Polis for President, although if you want to start that campaign, be my guest. Until then, Polis has to learn to play well with others in his caucus.
…I like your points.
And I also think that people who insult Car 31 immediately are losers.
Someday if there’s a functional meetup, I’d love to meet you.
I quote sxp151“Thirdly, political considerations are all that matters at this point.” I am sure many people in the public sector believe this. And that is precisely why our government is so inept.
There is no personal insult of Car31 either implied or expressed. It is a clear attack on her/his stated position and its basis, but nowhere is there any attack on character or integrity.
If the Polis plan is implemented, and private investors step up and take this problem off our hands, the worst it can come out is revenue-neutral. Doesn’t that sound better than “Car Czar”? Do you want your kids to be born into a huge public debt?
How long have you been alive? You realize the national debt is $10 trillion? I hate to sound like the Congresspeople in the old joke (“a billion here, a billion there”), but the cost of an auto bailout is not going to seriously affect this number.
And you did personally insult Car 31. You jumped to the conclusion that he has no actual knowledge of anything related to the auto industry. Maybe he’s Toyota’s Executive Vice President? Maybe he works for the UAW? Maybe he doesn’t do anything directly, but reads a lot about these issues?
If the Polis plan is implemented, and private investors don’t step up and take it off our hands, and we end up actually having to solve it ourselves like grown-ups, the worst that can happen is we let the industry die and 3.5 million people lose their jobs. Sounds pretty shitty to me. How’s it sound to you?
sxp covered this already above, but reefsaver, are you kidding? That ship has sailed.
Those private investors you suggest might step up and take the problem off our hands? There’s at least $700 billion on its way toward propping up the financial system they’ve done such a fine job handling.
It’s a private industry, let private money bail it out.
Those private investors you suggest might step up and take the problem off our hands? There’s at least $700 billion on its way toward propping up the financial system they’ve done such a fine job handling.
Yeah, that’e exactly why TARP money should be used in the short term, until Polis can get his tax cuts passed, spurring the private investment.
BTW, I’ve been alive since the 1960s, long enough to see the disatrous effects of too many government social programs & poor management of just about everything.
Like you said, I doubt anyone will care come next week. I don’t necessarily see it as Jared acting like he knows more than some of his future colleagues, but maybe that’s just me…
Personally, I like the fact that we have a Congressman-elect who’s willing to make some noise. You all followed the campaign and should have known JP is prone to opening his mouth (or breaking out his keyboard?) in sometimes unconventional, politically questionable, ways. Show me a real leader in Congress who doesn’t. Reid, Durbin, Kyl, Hoyer, Boehner, Adam Putnam, Waxman…it’s a long list.
Now, it is a little strange since JP hasn’t actually taken office. But just the other day Congresswoman-elect Chellie Pingree was on Faux News. Members of Congress speak to a national audience all the time and whether it’s in the WSJ, on Faux, in the SF Chronicle, or MSNBC I don’t think it particularly maters.
So, no; I don’t think it was a mistake. I also don’t think JP entirely processed the idea before he did it… He did it, it’s done, oh well. He had enough sense to get elected and to get on the steering committee…I trust him to make the choice where he writes guest editorials…
It’s publicity, he’s already on the steering and policy committee, he has a seat he can hold for the rest of his life (barring redistricting) if he wants, why not float an op-ed in the WSJ? He’s already on Pelosi and Van Hollen’s good list (evidence: seat on s & p), probably from his numerous contributions during the election cycle (but again, not really relevant why). He’s on the up and coming, and there is no earthly reason why this would hurt him or really help him — this is not a make or break thing — so who cares?
of this:
As for why one should actually care, some of us are more concerned about policy and strategy than the personal fortunes (monetary or political) of Jared Polis.
Car 31 clearly believes that, whatever the merits of the Perfect Polis Plan, his method of proposing it is quite likely going to cause problems for the rest of the Democratic caucus. I agree 100%.
It may not hurt Polis’ career (Joe Lieberman and Daniel Patrick Moynihan basically made their careers being the Democrats who couldn’t wait to disagree with other Democrats), but unless you have money riding on which committee seats he gets, who gives a shit about his career?
As for whether he’ll hold his seat for the rest of his life, people lose in primaries all the time. Polis can try to emulate Al Wynn if he wants, but I doubt it’ll be great for his career in Boulder. And whatever his larger aspirations, he still has to keep Boulder liberals more or less happy.
Your last statement hits on what I am thinking.
Politicians must always be thinking long term. How are decisions going to play in my district? How are votes going to be turned against me? How does this affect my potential future bills? Will there be grudges held because of my actions? Do I care?
I’m (a little) surprised Polis would start his career with this op-ed.
… you have the nerve call someone a hack politician who wonders about how decisions are going to play in his district. Yet, you whine and moan and bitch when a congressmen doesn’t pay enough attention to his constituents, in your view. (See Udall, Mark). You are utterly inconsistent.
My complaint with Udall was not that he didn’t do exactly what some of his constituents wanted – but that he ran away so he didn’t have to listen to any. But I will agree that it is a matter of degree between listening and acting based on what your constituents want.
My point, which I was not clear on, was not that the items listed are bad. They are each individually a good thing. My objection was that having that list be the sum total of what a politician acts on would make them a hack.
To call that the thinking of a hack politician is to have literally no understanding of politics.
A politician who exists to go on Sunday TV shows and complain about his party (e.g. John McCain or Joe Lieberman) may be popular with pristine moderate liberals, but will rarely get anything done. That’s why McCain has only had one accomplishment (the McCain-Feingold bill, which the Democrats were entirely responsible for) and Lieberman is a pariah in both parties.
At some point, if you don’t get a bill passed, you’re a failure as a Congressman. Even if you have lunch with your constituents.
My reply was poorly worded. What I meant was that if those are the only criteria, then I think someone qualifies as a hack. But I do think those are part of a much larger set of items that a politician should take into account.
Ummm…not really. You have to be a real screwup to lose a congressional primary. With the exception of 1992, when there were 19, it’s incredibly rare. And that had a lot to do with redistricting, not people pissed at their reps.
An editorial in the WSJ way not be a great start, but it hardly puts JP anywhere near the likes of Wynn, or say, Cynthia McKinney…
If Polis changes and starts consulting his fellow Democrats before pulling stupid egotistical stunts, I’ll be thrilled. I’ll vote to re-elect him. I may even campaign for him.
But so far he’s done one nationally public thing since being re-elected, and that’s this. I’d love for him to change. Primaries are expensive and bitter and make me argue with other Democrats. I hate them. But politicians who don’t fit their districts sometimes make them necessary.
Been around politics much?
I can’t even imagine how you could conceivably argue publishing that article in the Journal was anything but good for Jared’s political career. I mean, I’ve tried, and I can’t. And nothing said in the diary even comes close.
There are about 400 Members of Congress who would kill for that kind of publicity, many of whom have been in DC for years and years. Jared hasn’t even been sworn in yet. I don’t think we’ve seen someone of his energy, intelligence, and buzz in Colorado politics since, well since I don’t know, before my time.
And to top it off, he’s right on the substance. Great job.
Polis writing an article in a national conservative newspaper shows me that he continues to believe his ideas are right and he is willing to throw them out there without much consideration. Not par for course (most legislators will vet/study/talk over and idea before broadcasting it).
Does it matter, probably not. Polis has enough money and brains to be a good voice for Colorado.
Did he rely on his ego instead of reason on how to broadcast his idea? IMO, yes. That puts him in good company with Congress.
Let those of us who want to see original & critical thinking enjoy a few, like Jared, who are willing to think outside the box and throw ideas out there to see if in discussing them we can come up with a better solution.
I didn’t vore because there wasn’t a choice for “good idea.”
but I’m sure that will change when Polis takes his seat.
Kidding there, really.
I applaud original and critical thinking and believe discussion is the cornerstone of good legislation.
A good idea is worth speaking about and maybe this idea is good (I’m not sold yet).
Maybe Polis wants to invest in the Big Three himself. 😉
And I hope Jared Polis grows up a little once he’s spent some time in Congress.
Being a good legislator is not about coming up with good ideas. The only place where a good idea gets passed as legislation, without the hard work of building a coalition around it, is in Frank Capra movies. If Polis wants to persuade other people that this is a good idea, and get some cosponsors for the legislation, that’s great. That’s exactly what he should be doing, if he really believes in it.
How he imagines this proposal will go anywhere, given how he’s proposed it, is beyond me. And thus it just looks like a stunt to get attention.
This is one of the dumbest diaries I’ve ever seen, and I’m surprised it was front-paged. Seems like the standards are going down for front page.
Three points:
1) This isn’t a page from the Republican playbook. Anyone paying any attention to the situation sees that the Republicans are seeking to take down the unions through this process. I haven’t heard a single Republican talk about a tax incentive for the bailout. It’s a unique idea that isn’t currently part of the Democratic or Republican playbook.
2) A new legislator getting national press for an idea that is a reasonable idea, whether you agree with it or not. Duh. Of course that’s good for Jared Polis.
3) In the scheme of things, this has little impact at all on Polis. If he hadn’t been neighborly enough to post it here and participate in the discussion, we probably wouldn’t be discussing its impact at all.
It is a small matter, but it is also a slow news weekend. Between watching eastern european music videos or talking about political strategy, well…don’t answer that.
Let’s see:
1) Capital gains tax cuts for investors has been part of the Republican playbook for a long time. The fact that Polis wants to do it for the Big Three doesn’t mean it isn’t less ‘Republican’.
2) National press is good for a new legislator. But, when the legislator isn’t sworn in yet and the idea is floated in a newspaper that generally endorses ideas opposite your party’s platform, that can be seen as a mistake.
3) Agreed, little impact. Just fun to talk about, that’s all.
So that was all your fault? I always suspected as much…
I thought it was because of our intelligent bantering!
Boy, was I wrong.
🙂
So what if it’s front paged? It’s a quiet weekend–we’re about to get a foot of snow and freeze to death.
What else you all got to do?
on whether ANYONE in this country actually knows how to manage a large manufacturing company, the thousands of supply contracts and dealer relations. There don’t seem to be any proven models out there. Whether a bunch of bankers know anything that you can’t read in the Wall Street Journal is doubtful: cut labor costs, renegotiate labor contracts, purge the giant corporate bureaucracies of dead weight, yada yada yada… Cost cutting is not the same as taking back market share from foreign competitiors. When someone starts lifting the vision of American manufacturing rather than posing slower rates of decline into eventual liquidation… I’ll listen.
It’s not a tactical or strategic mistake… after all, you have to have a goal for these. He’s a freshman representative from a non-manufacturing state, lacking in a basis of knowledge about manufacturing with a new staff full of enthusiasm and impatience. Polis is not what you call a deep thinker on the subject and spouting off makes him look like a Me-too! version of Senator Shelby. There’s no strategy here… it’s just silly.
Next great alternative “solution to the problem:” Sell Chrysler to Dubai.
Any freshman going into Congress has a strategy. Polis has one, he campaigned on it.
My point as well.
A quote in the book I’m currently reading, which led to this diary, says:
Polis’ strength of money and inspiration only goes so far in Congress where there are plenty of others both rich and inspired.
Setting aside the hooting about the particular forum the Future Congressman choose, I think his floating the plan here and in an uber-conservative publication is brilliant.
Back in the 90’s I attended a Creative Thinking Seminar at a Promotions/Design Conference. The speaker was Eric Idle, of Monty Python fame.
He said you should subject your ideas and projects to the hardest possible criticism, because at some point someone is going to anyway.
For Rep-Elect Polis to throw his idea out in the darkest depth of conservative publication (and on line with us political smartasses) shows he’s serious about his idea. By subjecting it to the harshest critcism possible, he’s battle-testing the idea (and himself) for the storm that follows when he actually makes it a piece of legislation.
So, yeah, I’ve got his back on this one.
It’s one thing for Gore to go to WSJ and say companies need to get behind fixing global warming, or for Emanuel to go to WSJ and say Obama’s going to do this and that. Your average WSJ reader is not a huge fan of Gore or Emanuel or Obama, and so if you can get it past them, you can get it past many other people. It’s a natural strategic decision.
In this case, Polis proposed to WSJ readers exactly what they wanted to hear: eliminate capital gains tax and screw the workers. Did you hear any right-wingers criticizing the plan? I didn’t.
First off, I enjoyed Polis’s submission to the WSJ and his posts here. While his purposal isn’t the silver bullet, it’s an intelligent step in the right direction, and it merits discussion.
I also think that this is a perfectly valid diary topic, and I take issue with those who say it’s stupid. While there have been plenty of over the top, stupid, idiotic and lame diaries over the years, this doesn’t seem like one of them. If you disagree with the premise, say so. But this was framed as a discussion, utilize it as such.
Thank you Car31, Jared Polis, etc. for putting your ideas out there for examination.
If you think this is bad, take a look at some of the endlessly moronic attacks on Coffman and Suthers that have taken place here. Remember the times when you couldn’t come to pols without reading a story that made it look like Coffman personally killed civilians in Iraq?
This doesn’t hold a light to those times…
I’m so thankful that my Congressman-Elect is writing op-eds, being proactive, and getting into major papers
This is the kind of energy that helped him become a dot-com millionaire, going on to do all of his wonderful charitable work
Player haters – step aside and stay on the sideline — there’s a reason why folks like Jared Polis are writing solutions in the WSJ and others are ‘player-hating’ on silly blogs….
Now with the Muhammad Ali Hasan seal of approval.
And seriously, Ali…who says “player haters” not once, not twice, but three times?! I’d swear Jared got his pimp juice all over you with all the love you’re showing, Yaddamean?
…Hasan makes me cringe. Thank god the voters rejected him.
Jared Polis is rich, and we’re not.
I understand that as a fellow rich boy, you think rich boys are the source of all solutions, and everyone else is the source of all problems.
Funny how failed politicians who blog can be so disrespectful to other bloggers.
No, the difference is that Jared got elected and we did not.
I’ve never seen Ali or Jared say that. Jared does have a lot of faith in the free market and the high tech business community because he has seen both create substantial benefits for everyone.
Yes, how dare they be disrespectful – like all the rest of us are.
But for the third part, I wouldn’t mind if Ali Hasan came here and said I’m a moron and such. The weird thing is that he complains about blogs being silly, implicitly criticizing the very act of blogging.
Not that blogging is not stupid and worth criticizing (I do listen to my wife sometimes), but this is just a strange place to do it.
In a front page post that appears to be channeling sxp151 they tear into him for not toeing the KOS line.
It’s kind of weird.
I figure if I don’t have something to add, then there is no reason to reply.
It’s just weird to keep seeing my “name” turned into an all-purpose insult. I’m starting to feel like Doug Bruce. Is there a photographer around?
Ok, there are 435 members of Congress including dozens of new members. The biggest issue facing Congress today is the auto bailout.
How many in Congress are part of the discussion? A handful. And with this article that handful now includes Jared – and he’s not even sworn in yet.
In terms of having an impact on the political discussion, I think this move has to rate as very effective. And I think also his suggestion will play well with most voters because he’s proposing an approach that requires no tax money and mostly leaves the solution to the free market.
which is why most of them support a huge government plan to provide jobs.
“I’m from the government and I’m here to help” was an ironic punchline during Reagan’s first campaign, but now it’s what most voters supported in the election. So why does it feel like commenters here are still partying like it’s 1979?
Did someone invent a time machine and not tell me? I’m always the last to hear about cool stuff like that.
Keep in mind that by the standards of European political parties we Dems are a conservative pro-business political party. This country’s religion, even more so than Christianity, is the free-market.
Always has been and almost certainly will continue to be so into the near future.
With that said, people also understand the need for a gigantic spending boost to provide more jobs. But look at how it’s proposed – as infrastructure work, which will mostly be done by private companies.
And people see that the market is not working for these giant companies that are too big to fail and are ineptly managed. So they want that fixed – but by putting those industries back under the free market.
Democrats have long been more conservative than your typical Canadian/European conservatives, but that’s changing.
Infrastructure work is BIG GOVERNMENT. And that’s how the plan is being sold. And that’s why people like it.
And even here, I haven’t seen anyone else claiming that the problem with the car companies is too little free market. If you want to claim a big majority supports that position, I’d like to see at least one other person agreeing with it.
As a side note, is Boulder really so boring that we’re both blogging on a Saturday night?
I need to rebuild my computer and the only time to do that is over the weekend – over 40 programs to install. So yep, very very boring night mostly reading and occasionally clicking next on an installer.
If I’m not done by 3:00 tomorrow I’ll have to miss the get-together…
anyone watch the channel 12 airing of Aaron Russo’s documentary on federal income tax? Parts of it touched on government bailouts for private sector companies
interesting show!
as far as JP’s WSJ op-ed piece, hopefully he has the interests of all of us at heart over self promotion
time will tell
The key point here is the criticism that Polis is a freshman and therefore has no right to criticize the establishment. That is dead wrong, and at large what’s wrong with this country. We can all agree that we don’t think our government is doing a good job. The approval ratings of both Congress and the President are ridiculously low. Of course he should buck the establishment. It’s what we all want – change.
Just because he’s a freshman and not entrenched in the endless bureaucracy yet doesn’t mean he doesn’t have good ideas.
as many of us have already been discussing for days. It’s about the strategic value of throwing the idea out without discussing it with your colleagues with whom you have to make alliances in order to pass bills so that you’re doing your job.
If you can’t be bothered to read what anyone actually wrote when this point was brought up eight times before, how can you expect to be taken seriously?
This has considerably political value if played right.
Reliable progressives are chopped liver when it comes to negotiating legislation, since their votes can be taken for granted.
Moderate, in contrast, have to be wooed to make sure that they vote the party line, giving the more power.
The op-ed in the WSJ puts up a yellow flag that shows he might not toe the party line, while still expressing a desire to help the auto workers, which avoids an “he’s hopeless” reaction.