Wednesday Open Thread

“The 1928 Republican Convention opened with a prayer. If the Lord can see His way clear to bless the Republican Party the way it’s been carrying on, then the rest of us ought to get it without even asking.”

–Will Rogers

68 Community Comments, Facebook Comments

  1. parsingreality says:

    http://www.reuters.com/article

    All I can say is fool me once, no, twice, no….

    • One Queer Dude says:

         I remember 1988 when Michael Dukakis, leaving his convention with at 17% lead over Daddy Bush holed up in Berkshires for a week on vacation.

        That, of course, allowed the GOP to wheel out the Boston Harbor pollution ad (depicting Bush as an evironmentalist), the ACLU membership ad (letting Bush brand Dukakis as a liberal), and Willie Horton.

        What’s really disturbing about this poll is that McCain is seen as stronger than Obama on the economy.  Maybe Obama can make up some ground with his expertise in foreign policy.

      • parsingreality says:

        Read op-ed in today’s paper.  Basically sez that Obama should be laying waste to the Bush/McCain policies, but nary a wimper of anger or strong positioning.  

        • redstateblues says:

          I’ll be the first to get excited at a poll that shows my candidate winning, but if polls decided elections then John Kerry would be running for his second term right now.

          • bob ewegen says:

            would have won the popular vote in 2000.

            • dwyer says:

              Or, if Zogby had gotten the 2002 Senatorial race half right (“Strickland by six”), ole tom strickland would be running for a second term as Colorado’s second Democratic Senator….

              • BlueCat says:

                certainly not good news for Obama but, like everyone says, don’t count him out yet on the  basis of a couple of summer weeks. The Obama campaign is just starting to seriously fight back and a lot of undecideds are HRC supporters reluctant to say they will support Obama.  HRC ought to be able to get most of those distressed HRC diehards on board during the convention.

                She knows she has to for her own sake. Getting blamed for losing the Dems this election by undercutting the nominee will not help her career.  She knows that even if Bill can’t quite accept it and she’s the politician in the family now.

              • BlueCat says:

                but Strickland never led once the whole night, not for five seconds.  it was painful to watch those numbers after that Zogby poll promised a sure win.  

        • Yokel says:

          Unlike his followers, he actually realizes he’s not running against President Bush.

      • Yokel says:

        McCain taking up the flag of “Drill here, drill now” and “All of the above” regarding energy policy is the difference in the campaign on that issue, and in these polls.  

        Obama will either need a complete flip flop, on which his “Higher gas prices are okay, but they just rose too fast” record will be crucified, or he’ll need a distraction.

        • Go Blue says:

          that “drill Here, drill now” is nothing more than a hoax and political scheme. McCain’s political pandering to his Big Oil buddies is at the expense of taxpayers, not to their benefit what-so-ever.

          • Laughing Boy says:

            You mean like “We support the troops, just not their mission”?

            • Go Blue says:

              “We support the troops” by initiating the wrong war and then denying them proper funding upon their return.

              • Laughing Boy says:

                You’re almost like a webbot that just sits there, googling “McCain”+”Negative” and reposting it.

                Oh, wait – maybe you are a bot…

                BlueBot.

                • Go Blue says:

                  But I do know how to use “the google” unlike some wrinkly old white haired guy.  

                  Listen, McCain’s foreign policy is no difference than Bush’s. He’s not very intelligent and reckless. Together, that’s a dangerous combination for someone with their hand on the little red button, especially in today’s state of affairs with Russia. If McCain were thrown into a Cuban missile crisis situation, we wouldn’t be here today.  

                  • Laughing Boy says:

                    If Kennedy were here today he’d be a Republican.

                    He also initiated the Cuban Missile Crisis.

                    • Go Blue says:

                      if Lincoln were here today he’d be a Democrat.

                      McCain’s foreign policy judgement is perhaps worse than Bush’s. He’s an impatient hot head who’s mind wanders quite too often.  

                    • Laughing Boy says:

                      Lincoln started a just war that caused millions of casualties.  You’d be at the front of the line yelling

                      “Lincoln lied! People died!”

                      Just curious, are you a happy person?  You seem almost cartoonishly bitter on here.

                    • Go Blue says:

                      But that’s besides the point. Speaking of which, why do you always throw up smoke and change topics when losing the debate? Do you run out of talking points?

                    • dwyer says:

                      “He also initiated the Cuban Missile Crisis?  You make up stuff.  Lies. Crapola.

                      Kennedy, first of all, is dead as doornail. Don’t tread on a dead man. Don’t lie about someone who can’t defend himself. Throw your lies at me. I am alive. I can fight back.

                      Don’t be such a gd coward.

                      I remember the Cuban Missile Crisis, well. It was initiated  by the Soviets, and the intent was not to have a crisis, it was to put Soviet missiles in Cuba. The US discovered the missile development and told that the Soviets to remove them…that is was caused the crisis…

                    • Laughing Boy says:

                      …initiated the blockade.  That’s all I’m saying.  He was right to do it.

                      Kennedy realized the danger of Communism and fought it, and invoked tax cuts.

                      He’d have no part of the anti-war left today, IMO.

                      Throw your lies at me. I am alive. I can fight back.

                      Don’t be such a gd coward.

                      Huh?  Um, lighten up a little, please.  We’re supposed to have diverging opinions.  Nobody’s lying.

                    • bob ewegen says:

                      to say Kennedy approved the Bay of Pigs invasion against Cuba. Yeah, it was developed under Ike, but Mr. “Bear Any Burden” launched the attack, then pulled the air support, thus ensuring its failure.  His worst hour.

                    • dwyer says:

                      Come to think of it. You’re a Laughing Girl….just hanging around to see if the big boys will say a bad word…

                      You are really out of your depth…I think it is time to run home and play with your dolls.

                    • Laughing Boy says:

                      Sorry if I offended you by being so rude as to have a different opinion.

                      Wanna box? 🙂

                    • Go Blue says:

                      Ok, that made me LOL! 🙂

                    • RadioFreeDenver says:

                      If by a “Liberal” they mean someone who looks ahead and not behind, someone who welcomes new ideas without rigid reactions, someone who cares about the welfare of the people – their health, their housing, their schools, their jobs, their civil rights, and their civil liberties – someone who believes we can break through the stalemate and suspicions that grip us in our policies abroad, if that is what they mean by a “Liberal,” then I’m proud to say I’m a “Liberal.”

                      — JFK, accepting the New York Liberal Party nomination on September 14, 1960.

                • BlueCat says:

                  They’ve voted against properly supplying troops and funding vets health care time after time, year after year. McCain opposed the GI bill on the grounds that limiting their options would force more of them to re-enlist while giving them what they deserved would not. When Republicans controlled both houses of congress they strongly resisted investigating the war profiteers who make their money screwing the troops with shoddy work and supplies for top dollar.  

                  As for mission, the mission our troops were sent to execute was part of the worst series of strategic errors in our history. The fact that McCain can talk tough all he wants while Russia does whatever it wants to in Georgia, for instance, is a direct result of those strategic errors. So is the situation in Pakistan.  So is the fact that Iran has more real influence in Iraq than we do even though we’re spending ten billion a month occupying the damn place we never needed to invade in the first place.  

                  There is absolutely nothing LESS patriotic or LESS supportive of the people we send to  execute our wars than failing to stand up  when we think the mission is a huge mistake.  There is  nothing less respectful of our troops than lying and conniving to send them to fight a war that should never have been fought, that had nothing to do with our defense, that had nothing to do with fighting terror or avenging 9/11. Protecting the companies that provide them  with filthy water,  spoiled food and electrocute them in their showers, blocking all investigations as long as they could, is NOT supporting the troops.  

                  Maybe that’s why troops now in Iraq are contributing so much more money to Obama then to McCain.  They know who is on their side where it counts and who just slaps on the bumper sticker.  McCain was a POW a long time ago. In THIS century he has never met a bill to support our troops or vets that he likes and his foremost priority has been tax breaks for the rich.

                  You can take your lies about how Democrats don’t support the troops and shove them right up your ass.  EVERY bill that has been introduced to get our troops the armor and equipment and decent time between deployments they need and to support our returning vets properly has been a Democratic bill, resisted by Republicans.  There have also been many more Democratic combat vets in congress than Republican combat vets for decades. Stop insulting them  and all the troops contributing to the Obama campaign.

                  • Laughing Boy says:

                    A. Please take it easy with the over-emotional ranting.  It makes it easier to understand what you’re saying if you just make your point.  

                    B. Be specific on how “The Republicans and especially McCain have never supported our troops.”

                    Do you think you’re generalizing?  What about Republicans that were troops?

                    You can take your lies about how Democrats don’t support the troops and shove them right up your ass.  EVERY bill that has been introduced to get our troops the armor and equipment and decent time between deployments they need and to support our returning vets properly has been a Democratic bill, resisted by Republicans.

                    Are you sure it’s every bill?  I know that Democrat attempts to put a timetable for withdrawal in troop funding bills were shot down. Over and over again.  What’s their true priority in that case?  Doing something politically expedient or actually just sending money to the troops, which they knew they would have to do eventually anyway?

                    I’m not insulting anyone, I just disagree with you.

                    PS I’m a veteran, so you can stick your false umbrage up an ass of your choosing.

            • ThillyWabbit says:

              It seems some people don’t understand what “quotation marks” are for anymore.

              Using them means somebody actually said what you are quoting. If they actually said that, cite the source.

        • redstateblues says:

          like they do every fall. People might not be so bloodthirsty when they’re paying closer to $3/gallon than $4… but other economic issues like unemployment and housing prices will still be around. Obama has the edge on those issues.

  2. SSG_Dan says:

    “The political and commercial morals of the United States are not merely food for laughter, they are an entire banquet.”

  3. Arvadonian says:

    “Ma’am, let me say that I don’t disagree with anything you said.”  

    — John McCain, responding to a woman in a town hall meeting earlier today, who concluded her comments with the line “if we don’t re-enact the draft, I don’t think we’ll have anyone to chase Bin Laden to the gates of hell.”

    • bob ewegen says:

      of a long, inchoate, rant in which she said we should do more to take care of veterans. That’s what mccain was agreeing with, Arvad.  

      • Dabee47 says:

        McCain’s point was rather obvious to anyone paying attention to the whole exchange.

        • Go Blue says:

          So I must ask, who do I believe when McCain says the Water Compact “obviosuly needs to be renegotiated,” McCain or his campaign who says he didn’t mean days later? This guy double-talks so fast it’s impossible even for Limbaugh to know where he stands on the issues! (Yes, I listen old ditto-head every once in a while to get a good laugh.)

          • Dabee47 says:

            Listening to Rush in the car causes me to swerve wildly in anger, picking off small children and the damn liberal hippies that get in my way.  😛

            But as to the topic at hand, Olbermann is trying to make this into a story when there’s just nothing there.  The woman was talking about treating the troops and veterans better.  If we as a country continue to treat them like shit, we are going to need a draft to keep enough people in the military.

            And another thing: Did Olbermann ever bash Charlie Rangel when he was trying to reinstate the draft?  I certainly don’t recall it happening…

            • Go Blue says:

              What bothers me is the fact that McCain panders to anyone and everyone with his (not so) “straight-talk.” He just nods his head and says “I don’t disagree with anything you said” and moves on, and has his campaign rush and say “oh well of course he doesn’t really agree with…”

              As for caring four troops properly, he failed that test already.  

            • dwyer says:

              Charlie Rangel was very specific about the draft. He wanted it introduced BEFORE we went to war, so that the burden would not be on the economically disadvantaged.  He felt, and I think, rightly so, that if everyone was going to go to war…the Congress would think twice about their resolutions “authorizing” military force.  He was right.

              McCain’s spent forty years in a military culture..growing up, education, and then war and imprisonment.  His world view comes out of that. Everything is about war and going to war and finding and killing the “enemy.”  Victory, defeat, us them,  That it is entire reference.

              He and Bayh sponsored legislation, which luckily was defeated, which would have, in effect, made the peace corps part of the military.  It was truly frightening. Not only would that have destroyed the peace corps, it would have compromised the safety of serving volunteers and everyone in 134 countries who had ever worked with the peace corps, with the understanding that the peace corps was independent of the military and other intelligence gathering agencies.    What was so frightening was that McCain didn’t see the problem.  He saw “country,” and taking orders and doing whatever a citizen was “commanded” to do….As for Bayh…he is one weak sister.

              You hear in the military that the only problem with war is that people “get hurt.”  There are truly those who glory in that culture…the bonding, the security, the adventure, the playing with “big boy toys.”  I say “god bless them.”  But, it not what I want to dominate the culture of my country…

              And when McCain starts sneeking in that half smile and “I agree with you,”   I get apprehensive.  Let’s see if we get a disclaimer, today. I bet not.

              • RedGreen says:

                I bet not either, but only because the McCain camp won’t want to give the topic any legs by bringing it up again unless it’s forced upon them. McCain is taking three days off (so no more town halls for a while), and all eyes will be on Obama and his VP pick, so McCain might dodge the bullet and not have to elaborate.

              • parsingreality says:

                Put a constitutional amendment in place that mandates all physicaly able and age appropriate offspring of all legislators, the president, and the vice president’s children be drafted.

                Other than passing the amendment, pretty simple?

                At least FDR’s kids knew the right thing to do.

                • RedGreen says:

                  unless his son gets kicked out of ROTC because of his Facebook indiscretions … But if that happens, he’ll take a leave of absence from college and enlist in the Marines, right? … Right?

                  • parsingreality says:

                    I think Nixon’s son was an officer, I’m sure there are others.

                    But in serious wartime I think FDR’s kids were it.  Hmmmm… what about Truman’s, if they had any.

                    • dwyer says:

                      Nixon did not have any sons.  He joins the contemporary list of wartime presidents who had no sons: Johnson-two daughters; GWB; two daughters; Nixon: two daughters.

                      Truman had one daughter, no sons.  

                    • parsingreality says:

                      I shouldn’t try to remember things I know nothing about.

              • Laughing Boy says:

                Charlie Rangel was very specific about the draft. He wanted it introduced BEFORE we went to war, so that the burden would not be on the economically disadvantaged.  He felt, and I think, rightly so, that if everyone was going to go to war…the Congress would think twice about their resolutions “authorizing” military force.  He was right.

                So why did he vote against it, then?

                Here are the two versions of McCain’s answer.  See if you can guess which one is being spun by the lefties….

                #1

                #2

                • redstateblues says:

                  That would sound pretty bad, why didn’t he refute her draft comment though? Did he zone out at the end of that lady’s incoherent rant?

                  • Laughing Boy says:

                    Both candidates have got to be sick to death of these forums, and exhausted.  The ‘gotcha’ stuff on both sides is tiresome.  This wasn’t a policy statement, it was McCain trying to be polite to someone who had just rambled on and on…

                    • redstateblues says:

                      That his health-care card for veterans so they wouldn’t have to go to the VA for routine care sounded like policy.

                    • Laughing Boy says:

                      I was referring to the reinstatement of the draft.  Sorry, I should have been more specific.

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